Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[Captain Norris]

So... is that one rumor/leak posted a few hours ago deemed real or fake?

 

[pupNapoleon]

First off, any number of additions anywhere before Fox completely destroys all CSS order, which means no Mario, DK, Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, or Kirby character(s) can be added, other than clones.

Please explain to me how moving Game and Watch down to the other Retro characters for another Mario rep up top completely destroys the order.

This bold thesis' statement's utter inaccuracy completely destroys my ability to follow your logical pattern in evaluating the situation at hand in the summation of the roster following.

 

[FallofBrawl]

This bold thesis statements utter inaccuracy completely destroys my ability to follow your logical pattern in evaluating the situation at hand in the summation of the roster following.

In other words, you just murked the guy.
Let's just settle down and wait for the final report which is like in 11 days. Any leaks now until then I will consider fake because I think Sakurai did draw out a scenario in which his roster would leak, and what I think he did was not give the entire roster in the build the NoA employee was using to send to ESRB since not all content needs to be shown. He is a smart guy tbh
Plus no more employees will be leaking anything after the original guy suffered the repercussions.
Just like what you said earlier

 

[Dyguren]

Anyone think we'll be getting anything good this week?

Proooooobably...wouldn't count on it but if we do , i can assure you it will be the last thing since the release in japan for the 3ds is really close already

 

[Casey_Contra]

So... is that one rumor/leak posted a few hours ago deemed real or fake?

Which one? The PAX one? Link?

 

[uebo7]

Please explain to me how moving Game and Watch down to the other Retro characters for another Mario rep up top completely destroys the order.

This bold thesis statement's utter inaccuracy completely destroys my ability to follow your logical pattern in evaluating the situation at hand in the summation of the roster following.

Because randomly sliding Game and Watch down like that has no precedent or reasoning. His logic is fine and is based on what we know: The ordering of the franchises is consistent throughout the three versions we've seen, and do no randomly jump across the roster.

 

[Ascended]

Because randomly sliding Game and Watch down like that has no precedent or reasoning. His logic is fine and is based on what we know: The ordering of the franchises is consistent throughout the three versions we've seen, and do no randomly jump across the roster.

In Melee, Pikachu starts out next to Mario, but is pushed down with the other Pokémon once Luigi is unlocked so that Luigi can be next to Mario.

 

[Skyfox2000]

As DaDavid stated, Mii could count as one of those slots in which case;

Wolf
Lucas
Ice Climbers
A Rhythm Heaven Rep(not necessarily Chorus Men)

Are my best guesses, albeit uninteresting guesses. Presuming Mewtwo is being kept back for DLC.

What about Snake!?!? i would think he would be more important than a Rhythm Heaven rep.

 

[MrSirSteven]

Maybe we'll see something Metroid related due to Metroid Other M being released on September 2nd in Japan and 3rd for AU/EU, but I doubt it.

 

[silvR1995]

Which one? The PAX one? Link?

http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/35148/20140831/super-smash-bros-4-release-date.htm

Is that the one?

 

[KingBroly]

Wonder if we'll see anything Metroid related due to Metroid Other M being released on September 2nd in Japan and 3rd for AU/EU, but I doubt it.

Every time that game is mentioned, I shudder in terror.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Because randomly sliding Game and Watch down like that has no precedent or reasoning.

It has no precedent?

 

[MrSirSteven]

Every time that game is mentioned, I shudder in terror.

Is the game even worth playing? Been wanting to download it but also wanted to continue on the Metroid Prime series as I never played the 3rd Prime. Sorry if this is off topic.

 

[LasermasterA]

What about Snake!?!? i would think he would be more important than a Rhythm Heaven rep.

Yea but he is not important to Nintendo consoles.

 

[uebo7]

In Melee, Pikachu starts out next to Mario, but is pushed down with the other Pokémon once Luigi is unlocked so that Luigi can be next to Mario.

We're talking about smash4, and from what we've seen of the 3 forms of the roster, stuff like that doesn't happen.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Yea but he is not important to Nintendo consoles.

Is that your reason for excluding him. Is Rhythm Heaven important to Nintendo Consoles?

 

[KingBroly]

Is the game even worth playing? Been wanting to download it but also wanted to continue on the Metroid Prime series as I never played the 3rd Prime. Sorry if this is off topic.

For all that is good and holy, NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO! It's putrid. It's a blight on mankind. The Prime series is a glorious golden goose compared to the bubonic plague of bad that is Other M.

On Topic: I wonder what the last stage is. I'm guessing a Duck Hunt stage.

 

[pupNapoleon]

We're talking about smash4, and from what we've seen of the 3 forms of the roster, stuff like that doesn't happen.

Precedent is going by what we have seen in the past- meaning, what Sakurai has done in the past games. Other than in 64, when we only had four secret characters, the roster has always bounced around in strange ways.

Using the current game as an example, the game we have not played, have little official information on regarding the CSS, is not precedent- it is bias.
Going by past examples, it is likely a character could easily be moved around, and so far, there is not information given to show that another character would not do that in this game.\

In other words, you just murked the guy.
Let's just settle down and wait for the final report which is like in 11 days. Any leaks now until then I will consider fake because I think Sakurai did draw out a scenario in which his roster would leak, and what I think he did was not give the entire roster in the build the NoA employee was using to send to ESRB since not all content needs to be shown. He is a smart guy tbh
Plus no more employees will be leaking anything after the original guy suffered the repercussions.
Just like what you said earlier

I apologize if it came across that way- I merely restaged his own thesis statement as a turn of phrase to why his logic was faulty.

 

[uebo7]

Precedent is going by what we have seen in the past- meaning, what Sakurai has done in the past games. Other than in 64, when we only had four secret characters, the roster has always bounced around in strange ways.

Using the current game as an example, the game we have not played, have little official information on regarding the CSS, is not precedent- it is bias.
Going by past examples, it is likely a character could easily be moved around, and so far, there is not information given to show that another character would not do that in this game.

"What we've seen in the past". Yeah, that's why I reference the roster from e3, and the roster from the japanese 3ds e shop. From those two rosters, and the one in the leak, franchise placements are consistent.

 

[Chrollo.]

Is that your reason for excluding him. Is Rhythm Heaven important to Nintendo Consoles?

Rhythm Heaven has more history with Nintendo than Snake so to answer your question, yes.

 

[Evello]

Please explain to me how moving Game and Watch down to the other Retro characters for another Mario rep up top completely destroys the order.

This bold thesis statement's utter inaccuracy completely destroys my ability to follow your logical pattern in evaluating the situation at hand in the summation of the roster following.

That violates the rule of sliding characters to the right and down in order when new characters are unlocked. We have yet to see a single instance in SSB4 of the sliding rule being violated. There is a precedent for characters jumping across the CSS in Melee, however Melee did not use the sliding mechanic. Brawl introduced the sliding mechanic and had no such exceptions. The demo and final game followed the sliding rule exactly. In fact, such an exception would be nearly impossible to program, since characters can be unlocked in virtually any order, and due to the sliding mechanic the roster could thus be in a huge variety of shapes even if the number of characters are the same.

If you believe that Sakurai has implemented such a complex roster-shaping algorithm then yes, I suppose a Mario newcomer is possible. It is very unlikely, though, and even if G&W can move, it still does not significantly expand the number of possible newcomer additions.

 

[LasermasterA]

Is that your reason for excluding him. Is Rhythm Heaven important to Nintendo Consoles?

Well I am not against Snake but he was in Brawl mainly cause Kojima requested him to be in the game. He is a 3rd party character of a series which has not had much significance on Nintendo consoles. And Smash is a Nintendo game mainly to showcase Nintendo parties.

Personally, I don't want the Rhythm Heaven Chorus Men but that series originated on Nintendo and was made by Nintendo. Plus it was fairly popular, so in a sense they are more important to Nintendo.

 

[Ascended]

We're talking about smash4, and from what we've seen of the 3 forms of the roster, stuff like that doesn't happen.

Well excuse me princess, but both Melee and Brawl have characters bouncing all over the select screen so I don't think it'd be weird or out of place or illogical for it to happen here.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Rhythm Heaven has more history with Nintendo than Snake so to answer your question, yes.

I suppose you are either Unaware/Ignoring the fact that Metal Gear has NES roots. Rhythm Heaven had like what 2/3 forgettable games?

 

[uebo7]

Well excuse me princess, but both Melee and Brawl have characters bouncing all over the select screen so I don't think it'd be weird or out of place or illogical for it to happen here.

We are stating that excpicitely with what we KNOW from THIS game, characters DO NOT slide around. And everyone arguing against what Evello said needs to rememeber his logic is based on "assuming we're using Brawl's sliding mechanic, which all evidence points to", which it has so far.

Also, Brawl's roster did not jump around randomly like melee's. It was a sliding mechanic just like smash4 seems to be, except in the end, every franchise was grouped vertically leading it to look strange at the beginning. Smash4 follows the same sliding mechanic of character additions except the franchises line up horizontally.

 

[LasermasterA]

I suppose you are either Unaware/Ignoring the fact that Metal Gear has NES roots. Rhythm Heaven had like what 2/3 forgettable games?

No but post that hardly an Metal Gear games have made their way to Nintendo consoles. The recentmost game that comes to mind is probably the 3DS port of Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater. No new games have come out on Nintendo consoles and neither are the newer games going to come out the way Konami is publishing them.

The series has forgotten its own roots, not Nintendo.

 

[Tollhouse]

Isn't it pretty much hopeless for Snake at this point since he's not showcased with the other 3rd parties on the back of the game case? He was shown on the back of brawl's case along with Sonic, but not for this game.

 

[Skyfox2000]

No but post that hardly an Metal Gear games have made their way to Nintendo consoles. The recentmost game that comes to mind is probably the 3DS port of Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater. No new games have come out on Nintendo consoles and neither are the newer games going to come out the way Konami is publishing them.

Well after Brawl he had 3 game releases. And MGS3D getting a eshop re-release (not that this means anything)

Isn't it pretty much hopeless for Snake at this point since he's not showcased with the other 3rd parties on the back of the game case? He was shown on the back of brawl's case along with Sonic, but not for this game.

That was the back of an e-shop card wouldn't it?

 

[Rakath]

64 and Melee used a fixed system, the only character to move from their 'position' was Pikachu, this was because the Secret characters were a row at the bottom of the CSS, and Mario needed two secret characters on either side of him. Minus that very minor bit of coding, hidden characters unlock into specific spaces on the CSS that are set aside for them.

Brawl used a sliding system, the roster makes no sense because it isn't suppose to. Each character isn't moving from the order, the order is just adding new characters Luigi goes before Diddy Kong, if that's in the first row or second it doesn't matter. Wii-U we can't be sure what system it's using, we have only one piece of evidence (the E3 demo). The 3DS version we have three versions of the roster, and the organization of the Demo characters does not change. And the characters added in the eshop version are also in the same order as the ESRB leak.

So yes, Mr. Game&Watch is stuck there, if there was another Mario character meant for that row, Mr. Game&Watch would have been placed anywhere else on the roster but there.

 

[Mariohuge]

I've been wondering: since those leaks are apparently from a whole "master video", then where's the rest of the footage? If the leaks are true, I'd rather there be more footage than just the Shulk/Bowser Jr battles.

To be honest, if anything, I just want to see what was the deal with Master Hand pointing, being all awesome and that.

 

[Sonicjamareiz]

All is good snake is definitely cut

 

[Yonder]

Anyone else like...completely forget that Pokemon Trainer himself was cut ever since the leak proclaims Ivy and Squirtle was cut?

I suppose he was the first casualty anyways after no more transformations was announced.

 

[Greave]

For all that is good and holy, NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO! It's putrid. It's a blight on mankind. The Prime series is a glorious golden goose compared to the bubonic plague of bad that is Other M.

On Topic: I wonder what the last stage is. I'm guessing a Duck Hunt stage.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? Other M's plot was pretty clumsy, and it was linear for a Metroid, but other than that, it was a good game. I mean, it got a 79 on Metacritic, which is above average, so it can't be a blight on humanity.

And to somehow segue into the leak discussion to remain relevant....uhhh.........If Ridley's gonna be in the game, they'd use his Other M appearance, so any render that doesn't look like that should be fake..... *success*

 

[Neanderthal]

This bold thesis statement's utter inaccuracy completely destroys my ability to follow your logical pattern in evaluating the situation at hand in the summation of the roster following.

Are you being serious right now?

This is the most ridiculously worded sentence I have ever read.
So many big words used incorrectly or unnecessarily.

We get that you're a smart guy, but this just comes across as being desperate for us to see you that way.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Fixed to be Thesis'
Otherwise, fine.

I'm looking for a video of the roster 'sliding around.'

 

[KingBroly]

That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? Other M's plot was pretty clumsy, and it was linear for a Metroid, but other than that, it was a good game. I mean, it got a 79 on Metacritic, which is above average, so it can't be a blight on humanity.

And to somehow segue into the leak discussion to remain relevant....uhhh.........If Ridley's gonna be in the game, they'd use his Other M appearance, so any render that doesn't look like that should be fake..... *success*

Nintendo is pretty oblivious to criticism. You could tell them that their games suck and they'd say 'WE MADE PIE!' Having Ridley's Other M design in Smash would suck ass, as does Samus/ZSS's designs. The only bright side is ZSS not having ****ing platform heels, but the jet boots are still unnecessarily heels.

Also, game journalists have no sense of quality, rhyme or reason. A 79 on Metacritic equates to about a 13 point drop in quality from Metroid Prime 3, a 17 point drop from Metroid Prime 1. That's a MASSIVE drop in quality. And that's from the supposed overseer and forefather of the series.

 

[Greave]

Nintendo is pretty oblivious to criticism. You could tell them that their games suck and they'd say 'WE MADE PIE!' Having Ridley's Other M design in Smash would suck ***, as does Samus/ZSS's designs. The only bright side is ZSS not having ****ing platform heels, but the jet boots are still unnecessarily heels.

Also, game journalists have no sense of quality, rhyme or reason. A 79 on Metacritic equates to about a 13 point drop in quality from Metroid Prime 3, a 17 point drop from Metroid Prime 1. That's a MASSIVE drop in quality. And that's from the supposed overseer and forefather of the series.

Well, the Prime series were masterpieces (and one almost-masterpiece), so saying that because they don't live up to some of the best games ever made means the game is absolute trash is a little ridic. In its own right, it's a decent game. And I like Ridley's OM design! And the Varia Suit's. But the OM Zero Suit can go suck a --something--

But to stay on topic, wasn't it revealed that the leaker of the ESRB screens was still in possession of a copy of the game? Or was that deconfirmed?

 

[KingBroly]

Well, the Prime series were masterpieces (and one almost-masterpiece), so saying that because they don't live up to some of the best games ever made means the game is absolute trash is a little ridic. In its own right, it's a decent game. And I like Ridley's OM design! And the Varia Suit's. But the OM Zero Suit can go suck a --something--

But to stay on topic, wasn't it revealed that the leaker of the ESRB screens was still in possession of a copy of the game? Or was that deconfirmed?

No, just rumors.

And Other M has many underlying problems about it. It's not cohesive, and actually has several mechanics and design choices that actively work against one another. It's pretty awful when you break it down.

 

[Dyguren]

this is getting off topic lol...

 

[DairunCates]

Well after Brawl he had 3 game releases. And MGS3D getting a eshop re-release (not that this means anything)

That was the back of an e-shop card wouldn't it?

You're honestly ignoring the biggest barrier to snake coming back in this one. He's a third party character. Believe it or not, there is a LOT of paperwork and legal issues that go into a character from another franchise showing up in a game, and in this case, they honestly may have just put all that effort into making sure Megaman happened.

Of course, the obvious counter-argument would be "But what about Sonic and Pac-man"?

They're actually fairly special exceptions that make their inclusion a lot easier legally. Since a team from Namco-Bandai is the one actually programming the game, Pac-Man doesn't require nearly as much work because the company that controls the IP is literally in the studio. Similarly, a deal with Pac-man getting in may have been included in the contract for Namco working on this new one.

Similarly, Sega and Nintendo seem to be on REALLY close terms nowadays. Nintendo has gotten a TON of Sonic exclusives for their consoles in the last 3 years. Furthermore, there was an entire series of games that were sports cross-overs with Sonic and Mario. So, the paperwork was basically already drafted up and just need to be updated.

...And yeah. Snake is, from a legal standpoint, a significantly larger amount of work and one that's hard to justify with the management at Nintendo. While Snake has had 3 games on Nintendo consoles since Brawl, 2 of those were virtual console releases and 1 of them was a port that didn't add too much content to the game. Furthermore, it was rumored that both The Twin Snakes AND Snake Eater 3D were bargaining chips from Konami to get into Smash Brothers. So, if we DID see Snake in this game, it's likely we'd be seeing another Nintendo MGS exclusive getting announced by now. We haven't. So, it's doesn't bode well. Although, if Snake DOES get in, expect a new Wii U MGS game.

Finally, as to why Rhythm Heaven DOES potentially get a rep. It's a first party franchise (So, they don't need to file any paperwork), it's super popular in Japan, and it's not like we haven't had a character inserted to advertise lesser known franchises that Nintendo wants to highlight before (Not only was this how Fire Emblem was introduced to the US, but it's HIGHLY arguable that this is the entire reason Shulk was included since he has a new game coming out).