PopCorn Mafia! Summer House Party Edition - Party Round 1 Starts!

[Maven89]

We really need the flip

 

[#HBC | J]

Flavour later, busy day today.

Xatres, town bro, is now in control of the game.

Handorin, town bro, passed out in an alcohol induced coma.

 

[Handorin]

Peace out.

 

[Maven89]

Waiting on Xatres to post

Since 95% of the reason he was shot was his reaction to being shot, I'm not happy he turned out to be town. Just a little more effort and we wouldn't be town a townie already.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm not.



No you haven't.

.........................................................................................................

why does Rajam feature so highly in your opinion on Xatres?

Must've been a mandela effect then. I talked about Rajam more because I want to highlight him more than Xatres who was already in line to be shot. As it stands, Xatres is confirmed town now therefore there's really no point to talk about it anymore.

This shouldn't be an excuse to not do anything / do little. Common soup, you have plenty of experience on Mafia, and if you're town you should be concerned about moving things on. This is my main issue with you atm: I see a lack of town motivation



I don't think Maven was serious, but I played along with it to get things moving. You seem more concerned about resetting stuff to null status instead of generating pressure. Question is: why didn't you go along with it, or take the chance to pressure frozen somehow at least

Granted your own inability to post in the thread, what took you so long to speak up about this? If I was the bigger target in mind, wouldn't you want to persuade Hando to shoot me instead? I posed my question to you (and Maven) merely to generate discussion.

see, this is inconsistent seeing how you did nothing regarding pressuring frozen. Also I don't like the last sentence in what's quoted here, because you throw mud to Maven's intentions when it was an obvious starting point to get things moving. Again, it scummier that you did nothing at the beginning other than commenting how things were null: of course many things are null at the very beginning, but it worthless to mention them. Seems like fake contribution to me

I wanted to see his commitment to the idea, first and foremost. It was just to garner his reaction, but all he told me is that it was semi-serious. I didn't pressure him about it however because it's a moot point at this rate and we have a flip on our hands, which is a lot more prevalent to me. Right now I agree with Maven about you, even if I could never make a point about you liking things. You were twiddling your thumbs for sometime and now you want to bring the heat when it's already too late? I don't know what you were waiting for, unless you thought Xatres would still be the better shot over me.

 

[Rajam]

Coming out of this exchange soup seems a bit dodgy and Maven seems to be muddying the waters though I can't tell if it's deliberate or he actually believes that the difference between the questions is negligible. I think Maven is strong candidate for the shot. Frankly though I'm a bit biased and know that if Maven is town and decides to go gung ho and shoot at me I can atleast stop the bleeding by holding the gun and slowing the game down. Hando your rationale for Xatres/Maven makes plenty of sense to me and I find either target pretty unobjectionable though I do lean toward shooting Maven for what its worth.

Frozen do you still Maven could be the play? I wonder how much the question Maven did factors/factored in your perception of him. Also, what do you think of the Maven-soup exchange from Day 1? could it be a disconnection (aka not SvS)?

 

[Rajam]

@Soup its not like Xatres could've been scum alone, there had to be at least someone else. I was ok with Xatres being shot, therefore I didnt feel the need to insist harder on someone else. The points on you doing little/lacking town motivation couldn't have been brought earlier because those points needed time to develop and solidify. Last: I didnt post before because of my rl johns (headaches)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

He overreacted with only 2 votes against him, votes which, actually, don't do anything in this game.

in what way do you think he over-reacted? should he have ignored the votes completely?

Soup is rather null, but I don't see anything inherently scummy in what Soup is doing, he's asking questions and getting involved, I think Rajam is pushing Soup too hard if he thinks any of the Soup points paint him scum.

I'm not sure I agree with the bolded. Can you give me an example of why you think that?

Vote: Soup

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I've lost pretty much all enthusiasm for this game thanks to its glacial pace.

soup, what's your opinion on frozen?

frozen, what's your opinion on soup?

 

[Maven89]

No idea. Do you think Maven was serious about Frozen, or had intention to egg it on even after pre-game? I won't attempt to decipher such behavior, unless you think it's worth deciphering.

I feel we've reached an impasse. I didn't directly question you but I was hoping #72 was clear enough that I was signaling a response from you.

Granted your own inability to post in the thread, what took you so long to speak up about this? If I was the bigger target in mind, wouldn't you want to persuade Hando to shoot me instead? I posed my question to you (and Maven) merely to generate discussion.

I dug these up as examples but reading them again they're very light. First one is very bad. I think I was giving him a pass when they were posted because I was assuming there'd be more content to follow, but looking back post for post he has contributed the least. I'm still waiting on Xatres (and Frozen) to start playing, at least xatres has an outsider outlook on the whole thing

 

[Maven89]

Yeah I jus reread the whole game and Soul hasn't pushed a single person or done a single thing, even Xatres did more by saying he'd shoot frozen or Rajam.

Vote: Soup

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Soup its not like Xatres could've been scum alone, there had to be at least someone else. I was ok with Xatres being shot, therefore I didnt feel the need to insist harder on someone else. The points on you doing little/lacking town motivation couldn't have been brought earlier because those points needed time to develop and solidify. Last: I didnt post before because of my rl johns (headaches)

This seems like convenient to me and nothing more. The instances we're talking about were before Hando stated that he was going to shoot Xatres, therefore I don't know why you're saying this.

Yeah I jus reread the whole game and Soul hasn't pushed a single person or done a single thing, even Xatres did more by saying he'd shoot frozen or Rajam.

Vote: Soup

What are you talking about? I've clearly had problems with Rajam all game and I've tried to get others to talk about it. If you can't see that because I'm not being aggressive towards him, then I don't know what to tell you. I also haven't really liked Frozen either and have stated why that is. I need to understand what counts as 'doing something' or 'pushing someone' in your eyes because while I haven't been obnoxiously proud, I have alluded to people I'm looking at.

I've lost pretty much all enthusiasm for this game thanks to its glacial pace.

soup, what's your opinion on frozen?

frozen, what's your opinion on soup?

I don't care for his posts, but Rajam is a better shot in my opinion. The reason I withheld my own ""push"" on Rajam is because that in the event of Rajam being town, I don't think him having the gun would be a good idea. Does this go against my suspicion of Rajam? Slightly, but in the event of me being wrong, Rajam would be a lot harder to work with compared to Xatres. Maybe I'm wrong on that however because Xatres has yet to get his feet wet like I thought he would.

 

[Maven89]

[QUOTE="#HBC | ѕoup, post: 21793987, member: 177817]What are you talking about? I've clearly had problems with Rajam all game and I've tried to get others to talk about it. If you can't see that because I'm not being aggressive towards him, then I don't know what to tell you. I also haven't really liked Frozen either and have stated why that is. I need to understand what counts as 'doing something' or 'pushing someone' in your eyes because while I haven't been obnoxiously proud, I have alluded to people I'm looking at.[/QUOTE]

That's the thing, the whole game the best you've done is hint at people. You haven't pushed or gotten involved in any meaningful way, and when you have gotten involved at all you're incredibly hestitant and leaving yourself outs. It's scum play

 

[Maven89]

If Xatres and frozen don't post today request modkill

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I don't care for his posts,

could you elaborate?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

If Xatres and frozen don't post today request modkill

 

[Maven89]

No I'd rather modkill them, and if the game is still going let the rest of us continue

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Frozen do you still Maven could be the play? I wonder how much the question Maven did factors/factored in your perception of him. Also, what do you think of the Maven-soup exchange from Day 1? could it be a disconnection (aka not SvS)?

I'd be down to see a Maven flip though maybe at this point a soup flip is more useful since it seems like more people have commented on him than Maven. I'm not sure what you're asking here, you ask if I think their intereaction is a disconnection, which I believe is traditionally understood to mean deliberate distancing and thus is SvS, but then you follow that up by saying "aka not SvS" so I'm a little confused. If you could let me know what posts you're referring to I'll give you my thoughts, I just don't know what you're even asking.

I didn't get a distancing vibe on initial read thru that Soup/Maven were distancing if that's what you're asking, but I'll take another look. Would be interesting to see given that now Maven is pushing soup. Maybe distance combo into bus?

lol @ Maven calling for modkills in a game where game progress is a unilateral decision. I mean, I guess you have a point re: Xatres since he's holding the gun and can stall the game indefinitely but silly to call for other modkills otherwise. You can call out inactivity for being anti town but it's not like anyone other that Xatres determines the pace of this game.

Xatres cmon bro you've got the gun, what are you thinking? If you have questions for people nows the time to stir the pot. Seems like most of us are leaning soup, it'd be nice to know if he's even in your lynchpool

Declaring v/la tomorrow and sunday as I'll be travelling out of state

Should resume normal schedule when I get back Monday but maybe a deadline extension is in order considering this is 4th of July weekend and I doubt there will be much activity all around

 

[#HBC | Kary]

No I'd rather modkill them, and if the game is still going let the rest of us continue

You realize this sounds scummy as hell, right? I'm okay with the game just ending if people don't want to play anymore, but Xatres is confirmed and I'd rather not just lose for something completely out of my control.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

frozen, what's your opinion on soup?

I'm interested in looking at this soup/maven interaction that rajam is alluding to, especially with this push for soup from Maven all of a sudden. Very interested in the possibility of a soup/maven team where they try early distancing and going for a bus.

Generally I think soups content is unobjectionable which is frankly a bit offputting for the slot. Doesn't feel like natural soup to me. Mostly a gut/tone read though. And of course I still think that his initial response to the "who would you shoot" question remains dodgy.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

You realize this sounds scummy as hell, right? I'm okay with the game just ending if people don't want to play anymore, but Xatres is confirmed and I'd rather not just lose for something completely out of my control.

lol I was thinking the exact same thing. Calling for modkills on two people for mild inactivity in a generally slow paced game, one of which is objectively confirmed town, seems ultra grimy.

I mean I could get the argument that inactive Xatres can literally unilaterally stall the game ad infinitum, but that's not even really the argument that's presented :thinking:

 

[Maven89]

You realize this sounds scummy as hell, right? I'm okay with the game just ending if people don't want to play anymore, but Xatres is confirmed and I'd rather not just lose for something completely out of my control.

I'd rather play mafia and lose then not play and quit. I said I'd be fine if the game would still be going, it'd put us into a situation where we either have 2 mishots and lose or 1 missshot and lose, I'd rather risk it all there with active players then sit around wondering if people will play.

I mean I could get the argument that inactive Xatres can literally unilaterally stall the game ad infinitum, but that's not even really the argument that's presented :thinking:

No, my concern is that Xatres doesn't care, and there's little more me/kary/rajam can say, I don't think there's much more Soup will say, so without the ability for us to advance the game at this point we're left twiddling our thumbs waiting for Xatres or you to post.

 

[Maven89]

I am literally going through this thread and asking any question I can think of

That's like saying red wine and white wine are basically the same.

I don't think it's a strange response, either. I thought it was interesting because if soup is genuinely wondering who gave Hando the gun, then soup must be town. Which is why I was trying to tug on that thread when you stuck your nose in.

Just curious, but how exactly was your questioning going to prove if Soup was really thinking that or just claiming to?

No idea. Do you think Maven was serious about Frozen, or had intention to egg it on even after pre-game? I won't attempt to decipher such behavior, unless you think it's worth deciphering.

I really hate this post. Why would Soup defer to Rajam when in his previous post he was passive aggressive towards his content, has zero reason to think Rajam is town, and later clarified that he's had problems with Rajam the whole game. so why is he deferring to Rajam here?

So here are my thoughts so far:



this is a pretty non-responsive answer to the question "who would you shoot"



feeling this as stated above



This is a very strange question. Why do two questions need to be "different enough" to warrant asking someone to actually be responsive to the question asked when the answer provided was in fact non-responsive? Sure, the answers are obviously related insofar as the answer to "who gave hando the gun" obviously provides a clear answer to the question "who would you shoot" by virtue of the fact that the gun giver is scum, but still, the responding to "who would you shoot" with "I'm not sure because I'm wondering who gave hando the gun" is non responsive. It's like answering "who would you lynch" with "I don't know because I'm still wondering who's scum."

It's early in the game so obviously not being sure who the play is is natural, and saying as much isn't necessarily scummy. But not being upfront about the fact that you're undecided, and cloaking it (whether consciously or subconsciously) in a non-responsive answer just comes off shady.



Ah ok, Kary's one step ahead of me lol



Not true.

Deciding who to shoot is informed first and foremost by who you think scum is. It is however also informed by hedging analysis due to the fact that you can hedge your bets by putting a player who, if town you trust to make good plays going forward, into the drivers seat. Basically you may choose to shoot one player over another as long as you have atleast some reason to believe that player might be scum, if that player you'd prefer to have the gun as town to your alternative scum suspect (if they were town.)

I just finished a long *** monday so I may not be explaining this very clearly, but basically the questions we're comparing here aren't quite as similar as you're making them out to be. It's a bit reductive, what you're doing Maven.

Coming out of this exchange soup seems a bit dodgy and Maven seems to be muddying the waters though I can't tell if it's deliberate or he actually believes that the difference between the questions is negligible. I think Maven is strong candidate for the shot. Frankly though I'm a bit biased and know that if Maven is town and decides to go gung ho and shoot at me I can atleast stop the bleeding by holding the gun and slowing the game down. Hando your rationale for Xatres/Maven makes plenty of sense to me and I find either target pretty unobjectionable though I do lean toward shooting Maven for what its worth.

I feel this post is a little dodgy, but since Xatres is town I have trouble seeing the scum logic in Frozen pushing the gun to me, especially if he really believes I'd shoot him immediately.

welp, now that Hando shot, I'm saying this now: I found Xatres' reaction to his wagon scummy. He overreacted with only 2 votes against him, votes which, actually, don't do anything in this game. This reminds me of how when playing mafia irl, scum overreacts when pressured/confronted (i.e, talking louder than normal, in a higher pitch, etc).

If Xatres flips scum, shoot frozen. If Xatres flips town I'd still consider shooting frozen but I'd look more into soup

I didn't read this closely enough, it was his reaction to the votes that you thought was scummy, not his reaction to being the shot candidate?

 

[Maven89]

@FrozenFlame so far you've commented on me for mainly RVS posts, then again based on a meta comment I made about the game. I'd like to see you comment more about what I've posted in this game, you seem to have me as a scum lean but haven't pushed me on it for any specific reason, why?

 

[Maven89]

Xatres post. If you don't have time then shoot someone

 

[Rajam]

I don't see why people keep going for Soup about this. Saying "I don't know" is not being unresponsive, it's early game, nothing had been posted, saying "I don't know but this is what I'm wondering about" is the only correct answer, Rajam was obviously trying to get conversation going, not figure out who Soup would kill with zero posts in the game. Soup responded perfectly normal, you even acknowledge this here



but then you claim he wasn't being upfront about being undecided even though the first words of Soup's posts were "I don't know". I assume, based on you having him as scum, these are points you believe, and you're not just trying to argue what Kary thought.





This is a good point I didn't consider. Is this just an "fyi" or does it tie into your Soup suspicion?



This is not a good point.

Xates has me really uneasy. If I thought I'd be shot I'd be arguing against it, Xatres just sitting back and asking Hando for a reads list seems a little too much. Could be townie but right now I'd rather he gets shot.

Maven what were you thinking when you made this post ¿? I can't tell where were you trying to go with frozen here. The first paragraph seems like you have issues with him, but then your next paragraph it's like "I understand him though"... so, motivations for this post? because imo it seems like talking just for talking. What's your current stance on frozen?

 

[Maven89]

I am literally going through this thread and asking any question I can think of

This was my thought process

because imo it seems like talking just for talking.

It basically is, I'm trying to get activity going even if it's just the four of us

What's your current stance on frozen?

I see no reason to town read him, I originally scum read him because I thought he was pushing me to protect Xats, Xatres is town so that's not it, leaving little reason for him to want to shoot me, since I'm town and would get the gun, if he really thought Id' shoot him back. He also, very easily, could know I wouldn't immediately shoot him and was using that as a cover. Frozen has barely posted, when he does he talks little, and it's mainly just to announce a V/MLA. So I'm not a fan of the slot but unless he posts he's going to stick to uneasy null territory.

 

[Maven89]

And I just realized if Xatres shoot scum he's still going to be the one with the gun

Xatres shoot me

 

[Maven89]

anyone have a problem with me being shot? If people agree Xatres will probably do it

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I have a problem if you're town.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

could you elaborate?

He's nitpicking, and the things he's focusing are centered around accusations that cannot be fully proven. The example being his most recent on me, which is that I sound wrong tonally. If you compare Maven/Frozen in their demeanor based on this alone, Maven at least has the gall to call me out on the content of my posts, not the tone of them. I don't think that focusing on tone is inherently bad, it's just that the way Frozen is doing it feels like he's not too interested in getting fully involved therefore making off the cusp remarks where it seems like he cares is a lot easier than telling me why my posts are indicative of me being scum. I wasn't fully sure on Maven but I very much doubt a scum would ask to be shot right now, unless he wants to pour salt on the wound and thinks town is so off-base and incompetent that he can flaunt being shot, which I don't think is the case.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I really hate this post. Why would Soup defer to Rajam when in his previous post he was passive aggressive towards his content, has zero reason to think Rajam is town, and later clarified that he's had problems with Rajam the whole game. so why is he deferring to Rajam here?

Scumreading someone doesn't mean that you have to act conceited towards them or not be willing to work with them. I've always held this philosophy if you want to attribute some meta to me. I asked Rajam because I want to understand him better, which in turn could determine my read more solidly on him.

 

[Rajam]

If what you take away from those posts is that Maven is actually considering shooting you, you must have a pretty nervous disposition right about now.

I still don't think you can use who Maven will shoot as a reason for Maven being shot at. It's just too tenuous.

Kary, would you shoot frozen Y/N?

 

[Xatres]

Getting caught up. Post coming tonight or midday tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Just curious, but how exactly was your questioning going to prove if Soup was really thinking that or just claiming to?

It wasn't going to prove anything, but the idea was to gauge how self-conscious soup was of his posts. For instance his response to me seemed kind of defensive at first. But this is old news. soup has been weird and felt disconnected from the rest of the game, see #71 for instance.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

anyone have a problem with me being shot? If people agree Xatres will probably do it

first you want modkills, now you want this? can you stop acting like an idiot?

why is you being shot a good idea in this situation?

 

[Xatres]

first you want modkills, now you want this? can you stop acting like an idiot?

why is you being shot a good idea in this situation?

Pretty sure he wants the gun. Or it's a gambit to look townie, considering that Adum was pulling the 'self-sacrifice' play repeatedly as town in the game Mavin just modded.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I have a problem if you're town.

BEEP BOOP mafia player soup_01 reporting for duty.... *whirrr*

stock response #35 PRINT: successful

READY_

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Pretty sure he wants the gun. Or it's a gambit to look townie, considering that Adum was pulling the 'self-sacrifice' play repeatedly as town in the game Mavin just modded.

I definitely didn't ask you.

 

[Xatres]

Waiting on Xatres to post

Since 95% of the reason he was shot was his reaction to being shot, I'm not happy he turned out to be town. Just a little more effort and we wouldn't be town a townie already.

Maven, care to explain why my being shot for being chill with the idea of being shot is scummy, but you being okay with getting the gun yourself is not?