Maven89
Smash Master
So far I'm liking Rajam and Kary. Soup is null, Xatres I'm uneasy with, Frozen is inactive, Hando cleared.
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PopCorn Mafia! Summer House Party Edition - Party Round 1 Starts!
- Thread starter #HBC | J
- Start date
Dope.
After you give me the gun, who would you suggest I shoot next? You should give a full reads list before you hand it over.
After you give me the gun, who would you suggest I shoot next? You should give a full reads list before you hand it over.
Maven89
Smash Master
Why are you so ok with being given the gun?
#HBC | ѕoup
The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2010
- Messages
- 6,865
I feel we've reached an impasse. I didn't directly question you but I was hoping #72 was clear enough that I was signaling a response from you.
Maven89
Smash Master
semi serious. I doubt it's telling but if Frozen or someone overreacted I'd have taken it seriously.
Because I don't think there's much I can do to change his mind, considering multiple people have me on their hit list for basically no reason. Plus it means I'm put in the drivers seat, rather than dying. Not the worst fate that can befall a person.
Handorin
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
- Messages
- 6,013
So I mainly have two people in mind that could possibly give me the gun: Xatres and Maven. The simple reason is that neither of these guys have played a game with me. They even joined Smashboards -after- I went to live in Germany and basically left Smashboards and the community. I didn't come back until 2012, but I still didn't join any games. Every other player is veteran enough to know I'm generally very reserved and scummy (and openly don't care about that). Basically I'm an easy target to be shot at.
I'll try and get another list out by tonight.
I'll try and get another list out by tonight.
So here are my thoughts so far:
It's early in the game so obviously not being sure who the play is is natural, and saying as much isn't necessarily scummy. But not being upfront about the fact that you're undecided, and cloaking it (whether consciously or subconsciously) in a non-responsive answer just comes off shady.
Deciding who to shoot is informed first and foremost by who you think scum is. It is however also informed by hedging analysis due to the fact that you can hedge your bets by putting a player who, if town you trust to make good plays going forward, into the drivers seat. Basically you may choose to shoot one player over another as long as you have atleast some reason to believe that player might be scum, if that player you'd prefer to have the gun as town to your alternative scum suspect (if they were town.)
I just finished a long ass monday so I may not be explaining this very clearly, but basically the questions we're comparing here aren't quite as similar as you're making them out to be. It's a bit reductive, what you're doing Maven.
Coming out of this exchange soup seems a bit dodgy and Maven seems to be muddying the waters though I can't tell if it's deliberate or he actually believes that the difference between the questions is negligible. I think Maven is strong candidate for the shot. Frankly though I'm a bit biased and know that if Maven is town and decides to go gung ho and shoot at me I can atleast stop the bleeding by holding the gun and slowing the game down. Hando your rationale for Xatres/Maven makes plenty of sense to me and I find either target pretty unobjectionable though I do lean toward shooting Maven for what its worth.
this is a pretty non-responsive answer to the question "who would you shoot"
feeling this as stated above
This is a very strange question. Why do two questions need to be "different enough" to warrant asking someone to actually be responsive to the question asked when the answer provided was in fact non-responsive? Sure, the answers are obviously related insofar as the answer to "who gave hando the gun" obviously provides a clear answer to the question "who would you shoot" by virtue of the fact that the gun giver is scum, but still, the responding to "who would you shoot" with "I'm not sure because I'm wondering who gave hando the gun" is non responsive. It's like answering "who would you lynch" with "I don't know because I'm still wondering who's scum."
It's early in the game so obviously not being sure who the play is is natural, and saying as much isn't necessarily scummy. But not being upfront about the fact that you're undecided, and cloaking it (whether consciously or subconsciously) in a non-responsive answer just comes off shady.
Ah ok, Kary's one step ahead of me lol
Not true.
Deciding who to shoot is informed first and foremost by who you think scum is. It is however also informed by hedging analysis due to the fact that you can hedge your bets by putting a player who, if town you trust to make good plays going forward, into the drivers seat. Basically you may choose to shoot one player over another as long as you have atleast some reason to believe that player might be scum, if that player you'd prefer to have the gun as town to your alternative scum suspect (if they were town.)
I just finished a long ass monday so I may not be explaining this very clearly, but basically the questions we're comparing here aren't quite as similar as you're making them out to be. It's a bit reductive, what you're doing Maven.
Coming out of this exchange soup seems a bit dodgy and Maven seems to be muddying the waters though I can't tell if it's deliberate or he actually believes that the difference between the questions is negligible. I think Maven is strong candidate for the shot. Frankly though I'm a bit biased and know that if Maven is town and decides to go gung ho and shoot at me I can atleast stop the bleeding by holding the gun and slowing the game down. Hando your rationale for Xatres/Maven makes plenty of sense to me and I find either target pretty unobjectionable though I do lean toward shooting Maven for what its worth.
For clarity, here's my readlist thus far:
TOWN
Kary
Rajam
Xatres
Soup
Maven
SCUM
TOWN
Kary
Rajam
Xatres
Soup
Maven
SCUM
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
So you're not going to bother trying to argue?
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
Surely you have no way of knowing who Maven is going to shoot if he gets the gun. You can't use that as a rationale for him being shot now. What did you mean by this because it doesn't make any sense right now.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
soup what's your opinion on Xatres being shot?
Maven89
Smash Master
I don't see why people keep going for Soup about this. Saying "I don't know" is not being unresponsive, it's early game, nothing had been posted, saying "I don't know but this is what I'm wondering about" is the only correct answer, Rajam was obviously trying to get conversation going, not figure out who Soup would kill with zero posts in the game. Soup responded perfectly normal, you even acknowledge this here
but then you claim he wasn't being upfront about being undecided even though the first words of Soup's posts were "I don't know". I assume, based on you having him as scum, these are points you believe, and you're not just trying to argue what Kary thought.
This is a good point I didn't consider. Is this just an "fyi" or does it tie into your Soup suspicion?
This is not a good point.
Xates has me really uneasy. If I thought I'd be shot I'd be arguing against it, Xatres just sitting back and asking Hando for a reads list seems a little too much. Could be townie but right now I'd rather he gets shot.
Maven89
Smash Master
Shoot Xatres
Uhhhhhhhhhh
I mean maybe Maven is just memeing here but he's repeated the sentiment enough to make me think he's at least somewhat serious about wanting to shoot me if given then chance
Maven can you explain your 180 on Kary?
Handorin
be mindful of the deadline homie, it's tonight at midnight. Be sure to take your shot. Still think Maven/Xatres are fine choices
It's not the fact that he said "I don't know" that comes off shady, it's the way he did it. The way his response was phrased, he seemed to be trying to "hide" his "I don't know" behind his musings re: who gave Hando the gun. It just comes off as deflective. You're right that it is perfectly fine to respond to the question of "who would you shoot right now" that early in the game with "I don't know/I'm unsure" but there are more direct ways to phrase it that don't attempt to unnecessarily excuse the uncertainty and deflect the question posed. Basically, I'd have felt better had he said something along the lines of "I don't know, not nearly enough info yet" as opposed to "I don't know, BUT HERE'S WHAT I'M CURRENTLY WONDERING THINK ABOUT THIS AND NOT MY ANSWER." That's the intent my gut is gleaning from the form of his answer. It's not the answer of "I don't know" just by itself.
Re: my hedging analysis point, that was partly just mean to be illustrative as to why the two questions being compared were actually different. It doesn't inform my opinion that soup seems dodgy. It actually more informs my opinion that you're muddling the waters by being reductive/conflating points.
#HBC | ѕoup
The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2010
- Messages
- 6,865
He seems to want the gun, so by all means he can have it. I really don't get where you two are townreading Rajam for, but I also don't think giving him the gun is a good idea. I'd entrust Xatres to work with people and keep conversation flowing than Rajam who plays to more his own ideals and keeps to himself. In the event of him flipping scum and Hando keeping the gun, he's done his job of keeping his partner under wraps because I'd have no idea where to look in regards of tells.
We were not even a page in and I'm not gonna make a call based on absolutely nothing. I touched on this in #61, so I'm not sure why you missed my explanation.FrozenFlame said:
This is not my argument but I want to step because it is made about me. I don't really follow your mindset nor do I really like it, because you seem to be mincing words. I don't believe that merely saying "I don't know/not enough info yet" is all too useful, so I considered a thought about the intention of giving Hando the gun. Of course, this is something that is not provable, therefore that's all I could do is ponder. I don't really understand why you believe that is dodgy or the conclusion you're making, unless you want me to make a shot in the dark (heh) about who I think is scum based on something that could devolve into endless circular logic. Hando offered a point about Maven/Xatres which I thought was decent, which is why I have no qualms with the shot.
What I'm personally wondering is why people think Rajam is town, because I haven't seen anything that has impressed me. I'm not really fond of the constant 'liking' either, but this is essentially a moot point. I've seen both Maven/Kary say he's tried to get the game going but we're about ~2 IRL days into the game and yet he's keeping to himself. You have to wonder what's so important based on his deduction that he can merely say it yet.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
If what you take away from those posts is that Maven is actually considering shooting you, you must have a pretty nervous disposition right about now.
I still don't think you can use who Maven will shoot as a reason for Maven being shot at. It's just too tenuous.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
I'm not.
No you haven't.
.........................................................................................................
why does Rajam feature so highly in your opinion on Xatres?
Maven89
Smash Master
I'm at work all day but Rajam is coasting on the early town reads and Frozen is being silly and comes off trying to protect Xatres.
Maven89
Smash Master
This lack of activity on a deadline is crazy
The only issue there is that BOTH of us would have to be scum for that logic to pan out. All it takes is one player who knows you to tell his partner that you're not a good choice for the shot.
Maven89
Smash Master
xatres who would you shoot?
Had to work, and technically tonight is my date night with my wife, although she's comforting our screaming baby right now. I will be peaking in thread most of the night, though.
As far as the ongoing Maven v Frozenflame debate, Maven is coming off the more well-reasoned on of the two.
Right now I'd shoot either Frozen or Rajam.
Rajam
Smash Champion
Reading now. Had some headaches these last couple of days
Rajam
Smash Champion
This shouldn't be an excuse to not do anything / do little. Common soup, you have plenty of experience on Mafia, and if you're town you should be concerned about moving things on. This is my main issue with you atm: I see a lack of town motivation
I don't think Maven was serious, but I played along with it to get things moving. You seem more concerned about resetting stuff to null status instead of generating pressure. Question is: why didn't you go along with it, or take the chance to pressure frozen somehow at least
Rajam
Smash Champion
see, this is inconsistent seeing how you did nothing regarding pressuring frozen. Also I don't like the last sentence in what's quoted here, because you throw mud to Maven's intentions when it was an obvious starting point to get things moving. Again, it scummier that you did nothing at the beginning other than commenting how things were null: of course many things are null at the very beginning, but it worthless to mention them. Seems like fake contribution to me
Rajam
Smash Champion
I'm gonna deflect this question to soup and frozen. I have my own opinion but I want to hear from these two first
Actually I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this
Rajam
Smash Champion
I voted you, because splitting votes wasn't gonna help in creating pressure on a slot (you in this case). Also, same thing I said to soup: you're doing nothing in terms of trying to advance the game further; you're also inherently saying how many things are null and there's no stance on anything. There's lack of town effort/motivation to try to find stuff, scumhunt or generate pressure
I'm still ok with Xatres taking the shot
Rajam
Smash Champion
welp, now that Hando shot, I'm saying this now: I found Xatres' reaction to his wagon scummy. He overreacted with only 2 votes against him, votes which, actually, don't do anything in this game. This reminds me of how when playing mafia irl, scum overreacts when pressured/confronted (i.e, talking louder than normal, in a higher pitch, etc).
If Xatres flips scum, shoot frozen. If Xatres flips town I'd still consider shooting frozen but I'd look more into soup
If Xatres flips scum, shoot frozen. If Xatres flips town I'd still consider shooting frozen but I'd look more into soup
Maven89
Smash Master
Frozen/Xatres combo is something I considered, Frozen seemed to be doing the same thing he was accusing me of doing, and was pushing me when the only options were Xatres/Me, making pushing me a soft Xatres defense.
My other two choices for scum are Soup/Rajam. I felt Rajam was active enough early on to try and get conversation going (I'm assuming he liked every post in the hopes people would talk about why he liked every post), but then he vanished, and while he came back and posted good information it's entirely possible he's scum and tried to coast on his early town reads, and his return is rather late. Could easily be RL issues, could be scum coasting. While I gave him an early town read I don't believe he currently deserves any hard town read. He hasn't done anything scummy either, so I'm considering him an unlikely partner to Xatres, higher chance if Xatres is town.
Soup is rather null, but I don't see anything inherently scummy in what Soup is doing, he's asking questions and getting involved, I think Rajam is pushing Soup too hard if he thinks any of the Soup points paint him scum.
Kary being scum is very unlikely to me, but it's the last option available and so if Xatres is town I'll look closer at her, right now we seem to be vibing so I'm town reading the slot.
My other two choices for scum are Soup/Rajam. I felt Rajam was active enough early on to try and get conversation going (I'm assuming he liked every post in the hopes people would talk about why he liked every post), but then he vanished, and while he came back and posted good information it's entirely possible he's scum and tried to coast on his early town reads, and his return is rather late. Could easily be RL issues, could be scum coasting. While I gave him an early town read I don't believe he currently deserves any hard town read. He hasn't done anything scummy either, so I'm considering him an unlikely partner to Xatres, higher chance if Xatres is town.
Soup is rather null, but I don't see anything inherently scummy in what Soup is doing, he's asking questions and getting involved, I think Rajam is pushing Soup too hard if he thinks any of the Soup points paint him scum.
Kary being scum is very unlikely to me, but it's the last option available and so if Xatres is town I'll look closer at her, right now we seem to be vibing so I'm town reading the slot.
Maven89
Smash Master
Maven89
Smash Master
Handorin
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
- Messages
- 6,013
Who's the scum mate?
Maven89
Smash Master
#HBC | FrozeηFlame
if Xatres is scum who is his partner?
