Pokemon X and Y: Competitive Gen VI Discussion

[Wave⁂]

HP and SpDef? Any Attack EVs?

 

[choknater]

yeah up to 85 now

psycho who's that in your avatar?

 

[Wave⁂]

So I heard that you can get 100% crit chance with Scope Lens and Focus Energy

Please someone tell me this is not true

 

[choknater]

sounds godlike

 

[Pink Reaper]

I thought it was only 100% on pokemon with Super Luck or abilities that give +Crit. Though it might be that pokemon with +Crit abilities only need Focus Energy for 100% crit

 

[UltiMario]

It's true.

Scope Lens + Super Luck + High Crit move also crits 100% of the time.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

...Anyone happen to have a super luck togepi?

No particular reason

 

[choknater]

was that not the case in previous gens?

i feel like honchkrow might be the only good abuser

 

[UltiMario]

Kingdra really is the only good abuser of the new crit mechanics

Sniper always crit Draco Meteors.

 

[Wave⁂]

I don't think Kingdra will be good in OU, since you can't have both Rain Dance and Sniper, but I can see it being scary in lower tiers.

 

[Gamegenie222]

I've been messing with a team on showdown that supports mega Ampharos on it and want some tips and pointers for it so here goes.

Ampharos
EV: 252 SP.Atk, 232 HP, 24 Speed
Moves:
Discharge
Dragon Pulse
Focus Blast
Volt Switch
Ability: Static
Nature: Modest
Item: Ampharosite

Talonflame
EV: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Moves:
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
Roost
Swords dance
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Jolly
Item: Sharp Beak

Sableye
EV: 252 HP, 252 SP. Def, 4 Def
Moves:
Will-O-Wisp
Taunt
Recover
Night Shade
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Calm
Item: Leftovers

Crobat
EV: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Moves:
Brave Bird
Cross Poison
Toxic
Taunt
Ability: Infiltrator
Nature: Jolly
Item: Focus Sash

Forrtress
EV: 252 HP, 16 Atk, 195 Def, 45 SP. Def
Moves:
Earthquake
Bug Bite
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
Item: Leftovers

Ditto
EV: 252 HP, 252 SP.Def, 4 Def
Moves:
Transform



Ability: Imposter
Nature: Sassy
Item: Choice Scarf

 

[choknater]

can you explain what your strategy is to support ampharos?

edit:

i can't emphasize enough how much i'm liking slowbro right now. stops talonflame, garchomp, excadrill in their tracks. OUTSPEEDS AND OHKO'S FERROTHORN (lmao! look who's slow now!) he gets free thunder waves and regenerator recovery for when you don't want to fight. i'm using a balanced slowbro right now with both offense and defense:

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Modest (MODESTO-BRO)
Regenerator
EV's: 252 HP, 128 Def, 128+ SpA
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave

excellent coverage, bulk, and utility. doesn't mind toxic/burn/hazards because of his ability. this guy does everything right.

i love how i didn't even invest fully into defense but i can still tank a +2 earthquake from exca and bite back with surf. also again, regarding ferrothorn: he's is basically a free kill, because EVERY ferrothorn i see switches in thinking it can do work, but then they just get OHKO'd





also: any aegis without shadow ball is doing it wrong

 

[Gamegenie222]

The strategy is to weaken the opponents pokes throw sweeping and poisoning and then Ampharos will clean up late game. I'm still working on the team right now.

 

[CosmoMemory]

I've been messing with a team on showdown that supports mega Ampharos on it and want some tips and pointers for it so here goes.

Ampharos
EV: 252 SP.Atk, 232 HP, 24 Speed
Moves:
Discharge
Dragon Pulse
Focus Blast
Volt Switch
Ability: Static
Nature: Modest
Item: Ampharosite

Agility Ampharos is pretty busted and immediately forces a switch or forces them to sack a mon. This is what I've been using

timid/modest
31/x/31/31/31/31
252 SpA/252 Spe/4hp
dragon pulse
discharge/thunderbolt
focus miss
agility

after an agility, ampharos outspends pretty much everything that isn't scarfed. discharge and tbolt are completely up to you. I personally prefer the higher para chance. pulse for stab and coverage. focus miss is there to round out your attacks. i personally feel this and cotton-counter sets are the best for mega ampharos. just my 2 cents


@ Chok
how do you like surf over scald?

 

[UltiMario]

Agility Mega Amphy?

Yeah, with Timid you kinda outspeed almost everything non-scarfed, but ScarfTran and faster (every scarf in the game bar TTar) still outspeeds you, you lose out on mega amphy's 2 good attributes (Modest SpA and its respectable bulk) and you don't really even nuke anything since 165 itemless SpA is like base 120 SpA w/ Life Orb, which is strong, but with amphy's movepool lacking in moves with high bp, you put big dents in things but it's not enough to sweep, or even clean.

 

[CosmoMemory]

Agility Mega Amphy?

Yeah, with Timid you kinda outspeed almost everything non-scarfed, but ScarfTran and faster (every scarf in the game bar TTar) still outspeeds you, you lose out on mega amphy's 2 good attributes (Modest SpA and its respectable bulk) and you don't really even nuke anything since 165 itemless SpA is like base 120 SpA w/ Life Orb, which is strong, but with amphy's movepool lacking in moves with high bp, you put big dents in things but it's not enough to sweep, or even clean.

252SpA/Naive ScarfTran Dragon Pulse vs 4HP agility M.Ampharos = 56.5% - 67.1%
252SpA/Modest ScarfTran Dragon Pulse vs 4HP agility M.Ampharos = 62.1% - 73.3%

252SpA/Naive ScarfTran Fire Blast vs 4HP agility M.Ampharos = 28% - 33.2%

252SpA/Naive ScarfTran Earth Power vs 4HP agility M.Ampharos = 56.5% - 67.1%

252SpA Timid M.Ampharos Focus Blast vs 0HP/4SpD ScarfTran = 133.1% - 156.7%
252SpA Timid M.Ampharos ThunderBolt vs 0HP/4SpD ScarfTran = 78.9% - 92.9%
after rocks damage, Ampharos OHKOs ScarfTran. While taking well over half from D.Pulse/E.Power, Ampharos has enough bulk to handle lava bug. I did mention that this set, while speedy after 1 agility, will not outspeed scarfers. A +4(should it happen) will outspeed and severely dent everything. Although not really advisable due to questionable accuracy, Thunder could also be an option over Bolt to do tons of damage even when resisted. In the current metagame (pre bank) there are very few things willing to take bolts to the mouth. Post-bank OU is a different story. With more grounded pokes/resisted hits joining the fray, Amphy definitely loses some of its viability. Until that day comes, dam ampharos, you scary.

 

[choknater]

@ Chok
how do you like surf over scald?

the OHKO on excadrill is very important to me. i personally haven't tried scald on him and it might be good, but i don't think it would OHKO exca. also against talonflame, there's no chance of burning it anyway so i might as well try to take it down in one shot.

i haven't run calcs so i don't know how much scald would do on excadrill

but an OHKO is more important to me than a chance of burning it

things that come in to wall slowbro usually don't mind being burned by scald anyway, like special grass types or leech seeders or special walls like blissey, goodra, and togekiss. i'll take the power

 

[CosmoMemory]

the OHKO on excadrill is very important to me. i personally haven't tried scald on him and it might be good, but i don't think it would OHKO exca. also against talonflame, there's no chance of burning it anyway so i might as well try to take it down in one shot.

i haven't run calcs so i don't know how much scald would do on excadrill

but an OHKO is more important to me than a chance of burning it

things that come in to wall slowbro usually don't mind being burned by scald anyway, like special grass types or leech seeders or special walls like blissey, goodra, and togekiss. i'll take the power

scald vs custom 176 HP / 60 Atk / 252 SpD / 20 Spe excadrill = 48.9% - 57.8%
surf vs custom 176 HP / 60 Atk / 252 SpD / 20 Spe excadrill = 57.8% - 68.1%
I personally prefer the burn on potential counters to him and sacrifice a bit of power. slowbro is actually very good against talonflame due to its exceptional bulk and ability to spread para. If you are keeping slowbro in on a wall then idk

 

[Gamegenie222]

Agility Ampharos is pretty busted and immediately forces a switch or forces them to sack a mon. This is what I've been using

timid/modest
31/x/31/31/31/31
252 SpA/252 Spe/4hp
dragon pulse
discharge/thunderbolt
focus miss
agility

after an agility, ampharos outspends pretty much everything that isn't scarfed. discharge and tbolt are completely up to you. I personally prefer the higher para chance. pulse for stab and coverage. focus miss is there to round out your attacks. i personally feel this and cotton-counter sets are the best for mega ampharos. just my 2 cents


@ Chok
how do you like surf over scald?

I honesty thought about Agility Ampharos but it only outspeeds non scarfed pokes and like what UltiMario talked about in his post scarfed Heatran and faster pokes can go ham on it before Ampharos can go ham on it.

 

[choknater]

where did u calc that, cosmo? i wanna see how the damage is agaisnt 0 hp 0 spdef, since surely there are a lot of excas that run 252 atk 252 spe, which are the ones i want to beat with slowbro

 

[CosmoMemory]

@ chok I used the current smogon calc but had to edit the stats and stuff. that exca set is used for the uber metagame but I use it for XY OU.

I honesty thought about Agility Ampharos but it only outspeeds non scarfed pokes and like what UltiMario talked about in his post scarfed Heatran and faster pokes can go ham on it before Ampharos can go ham on it.

I think you guys are assuming that I'm switching into heatran or leaving my ampharos in on scarfers. I mentioned it in my initial post that you are outspending every NON-Scarfed poke. If you are seriously using 6 scarfed pokemon then idk

 

[UltiMario]

You and nobody else run that spread in XY OU. It was designed for Gen V Ubers, which was a very different meta in literally every way.

128 SpAtk Slowbro (+SpAtk) Scald vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Excadrill: 84.76% - 100.28%
128 SpAtk Slowbro (+SpAtk) Surf vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Excadrill: 100.28% - 118.56%

Surf IS needed for the guaranteed OHKO.

Also the issue is Agility Amphy still tends to have to take a hit regardless of if its faster or slower since it's super slow even with +2, that running 252 HP / 252 SpA Modest or something would probably be more effective, as you can attack on the switch, and with the additional bulk generally tank an additional hit, AND get the KO on something. If we take the theoretical scenario between 2 amphys, agility should get 2 hits in on average while bulky gets 3 hits, where the 3 hits are 10% stronger. I just don't see the point when there are not just better sweeping options than Amphy, but better amphy sets too

 

[choknater]

ok yeah, i thought so, thanks for the calc. slowbro's my main man right now, i wanna keep building teams around him. rotom, blissey, goodra, and gengar are the biggest threats that can snatch momentum from him, but i can think if plenty of ways to deal with those.

 

[CosmoMemory]

being able to take hits and spin back is exactly why I use that set.

 

[Wave⁂]

No one cares what you run, the only thing that's important is what people on ladder run

 

[kirbyraeg]

So I know Mega Gengar is super troll and annoying, but I have the perfect counter that gets at it in pretty much every way possible: Spiritomb.

STAB Pursuit, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch along with its hidden ability Infiltrator means it has a 100% chance of beating any gengar set, even something like Perish Song+Protect. It's kind of an all-purpose psychic trapper since it has good mixed bulk and can eat a few non-boosted hits.

 

[choknater]

No one cares what you run, the only thing that's important is what people on ladder run

lol this is a terrible mindset

So I know Mega Gengar is super troll and annoying, but I have the perfect counter that gets at it in pretty much every way possible: Spiritomb.

STAB Pursuit, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch along with its hidden ability Infiltrator means it has a 100% chance of beating any gengar set, even something like Perish Song+Protect. It's kind of an all-purpose psychic trapper since it has good mixed bulk and can eat a few non-boosted hits.

too good

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Problem is you have to get it in on Mega Gengar without losing anything for it, which is exactly why it's broken: you can't do that after it mega evolves

 

[CosmoMemory]

No one cares what you run, the only thing that's important is what people on ladder run

Ive seen people run things that are NU or gimmick sets. Should we discuss those sets/spreads because they are on the ladder?
/back on topic

I do believe there is talk of banning gengarite for the OU metagame due to shadow tag/perish song/sub set.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Problem is you have to get it in on Mega Gengar without losing anything for it, which is exactly why it's broken: you can't do that after it mega evolves

you bring tomb in as it mega+subs
you can't get 2hko'ed by any of mega-gar's attacks
you flawlessly 1hko average gengars by sucker punching as they attack from behind the sub, you flawlessly 1hko smart gengars by pursuiting as they run away from infiltrator, you carelessly 2hko after mispredictions by using shadow sneak

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

you're running spiritwhomb in ou primarily for a single pokemon

infiltrator spiritwhomb is a decent answer to trevenant as well but there's such a thing as too niche a counter, or at least in my philosophy anyway. what are you giving up just to run a pokemon dedicated to a single problem?

 

[UltiMario]

Ive seen people run things that are NU or gimmick sets. Should we discuss those sets/spreads because they are on the ladder?

While what he DID say was

No one cares what you run, the only thing that's important is what people on ladder run

How you're supposed to read that is:

No one cares what you run, the only thing that's important is what the majority of people on ladder run

Which should clarify what he means. I have not seen a single excadrill on the ladder with significant HP investment, with well over 200 games on XY so far. Nobody runs bulky Excadrill, and it honestly doesn't get significant bonuses from running it (it's designed for a metagame that's fairly slow and much harder hitting), so it's so rare that it's not worth considering when doing cals.

 

[Wave⁂]

lol this is a terrible mindset

I bet you run 252 Speed Blissey so you can outspeed the one 248 Speed Blissey that has been used once in the history of all Pokemon

 

[choknater]

if needed

 

[kirbyraeg]

and i'm the guy who runs 252 hp/252 spdef on blissey to avoid the 2hko from choice specs machamp focus blast after sr+1 layer of spikes

 

[Wave⁂]

if needed

Is it needed?

 

[choknater]

Is it needed?

no but if it was i would use it

 

[Wave⁂]

so what you're saying is that you would never use it

because

no one

runs

248 speed blissey

 

[choknater]

yeah that's probably true

i don't know what point you're trying to make

 

[Wave⁂]

Preparing for nonexistent threats is pointless?