Pokemon X and Y: Competitive Gen VI Discussion

[choknater]

hm all the sources i look at (serebii and bulbapedia, lol) say that bulletproof blocks focus blast. the japanese name for focus blast translates to "Fighting Spirit Bullet" so it would make sense to me. it's basically like urameshi yusuke's spirit gun from yu yu hakusho lol

 

[IceArrow]

No EVs? And yes I would agree with Scizor since Life Orb Garchomp is just as good at doing the job it looks like your garchomp wants to do. It does look though like you have a little Skarmory problem.

 

[Player-4]

No they're all EV'd, 5 perfect IV bred. I just don't remember all their EV spreads off the top of my head, Zapdos, Metagross, Ttar all have obscure spreads, and Noivern, Chomp, and Azuma have straight forward 252, 252, 4 spreads.

I'm not too worried about Skarm, Forretress, or Ferrothorn (this guy quite a lot, almost every team), I've run into them and had to just stare at them but eventually they break. None of them can touch Zapdos and I can pressure them away if need be lol, but Zapdos and Noivern usually handle them and I can brute them with Chomp, TTar, or Azuma if need be, I could take Crunch off Chomp and put Fire Blast on but idk.

 

[IceArrow]

Ya I would recommend taking off crunch for Fire Blast or Flamethrower.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Whatever can survive hits from SD LO chomp can survive hits from SD Heracross, pretty much. Skarm is the worst offender in terms of walls for obvious reasons, being abe to OHKO Hera with BB. Lets not forget either that SD Mega Hera loses to offense thanks to just getting outsped and 2HKO'd by the general meta.

Stone Edge was not changed to contact. There was, however, a bug in PS for a while where all physical moves where boosted by tough claws. Maybe thats what you're thinking of?

Also 99.9% of people who use Mawile are **** at using it. Most people just go for the SD sweep the first turn Mawile is in, when its perfectly fine to use it just to hit stuff. If you really want to have a reliable Sucker Punch, sub mawile is pretty viable. It IS a strictly worse Kanga, but it doesn't mean its bad. I don't get how you could see M-Hera as good cuz 185 attack when Mawile is sitting at 260 attack, and has good priority, and think its bad lol

That's the thing, not many things CAN survive hits from SD LO Chomp and you're also not taking into account the increase in base power of Hera's moves compared to chomp. Chomp has 120/100 Base STABS and relatively weak coverage. Cross has 120/125 STABS and 125 base coverage moves. And Close Combat. Close Combat still the best offensive move in the game lol.

And Mawile DOESNT have good priority that's the problem. It's priority that can be played around. This isnt M!Khan who has a usable speed stat to use against things that can get around Sucker Punch and again considering how insanely common WoW is it puts M!Mawile in a weird position. It feels a lot like M!Luke to me, dangerous on paper but just not capable of taking advantage of it well enough. It's literally just a worse version of M!Khan so why use it? I mean at least until M!Khan gets banned lol.

 

[UltiMario]

@Player-4: Sludge Wave is a DW move. Admittedly, it doesn't get it till Pokebank, but it DOES learn it.

And no. They don't. The slot is basically there for TTar, and Dazzling Gleam barely tickles TTar, where Focus Blast 2HKOs everything short of max SpD AV TTar.

@PR: You're also not taking into account the severe loss of speed, and worse defensive typing, making Hera's life a lot harder for actually hitting stuff. Not to mention, CC reduces one of the few good attributes it has: its defenses. CC becomes way less desirable when the only thing you CAN do is tank hits and hit hard back.

While it may be true M-Mawile is a strictly worse M-Kanga, M-Hera is also a strictly worse M-Mawile.

 

[Pink Reaper]

What's the full list of pokemon that were released for DW? I never actually played BW so I dont know what was and wasnt actually legal.

 

[Player-4]

Lol what's the point of 2HKO when Pursuit OHKOs non HP invested Gengar (if he doesn't switch obv)? Shadow Ball/Dazzling Gleam has amazing type coverage. And again I haven't been keeping up with Shoddy play, so I didn't know Gengar got Sludge Wave, but for me currently that's irrelevant, the whole metagame will change once Bank is released, I'll probably slap Scarf-tran on my team over Scizor and call it a day.

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm pretty sure Tyranitar can't outspeed Gengar and actually get that Pursuit off, unless one of the Focus Blast misses

but Focus Blast never misses, so that can't be a problem

 

[Player-4]

Lolwut? You'd have to read Ttar switch hit with the first Focus Blast then hit with the other, does SS still lower acc of moves? If he Shadow Ball's or anything else on the switch he's then he's in trouble, if Ttar comes in clean, he's dead. But the only way to get off two clean FBs is switch only.

 

[UltiMario]

@PR What didn't get released:

Trios
Gen 2/5 starters
Chandelure

@P4:

Or alternatively, Gar coule use substitute, a move found on essentially 100% of normal Gar and on a large chunk of Megas, which gives Gengar the 2 opportunities it needs on focus blast.

Unless you're stupid enough to switch Gengar into TTar. You're beyond saving at that point, though.

 

[Player-4]

Bleh SubGar is such a 5th gen thing, 4th was my ****, I didn't care for or played much 5th gen. Well pray you don't miss lol. I'll be happy when M-Gar is banned, have yet to fight one but it's whole concept is stupid.

 

[UltiMario]

I used SubSplit in Gen 4 lol

Not a Gen 5 thing.

 

[Player-4]

There were odd one off SubSplit Gars in 4th gen that didn't get very far lol, but you mentioned the standard and SubGar wasn't standard in 4th. I mean just because you used it doesn't make it a 4th gen thing.

 

[UltiMario]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gengar

Sub+3 Attacks is the first on the analysis. SubSplit is 2nd.

It was a 4th Gen thing.

 

[IceArrow]

Ya Substitute Gengar has always been extremely viable. Although what set do people use for M-Gengar? Ive always been using M-Kangaskhan and oddly M-Manetric (I know it sucks).

 

[ss118]

I remember that SE changed but maybe that was just my misreading. My bad

 

[Pink Reaper]

Smogons DPP stuff is way out of date. It has Umbreon as OU. This happened after 5th gen came out. Take everything with a grain of salt lol.

 

[kirbyraeg]

That's the thing, not many things CAN survive hits from SD LO Chomp and you're also not taking into account the increase in base power of Hera's moves compared to chomp. Chomp has 120/100 Base STABS and relatively weak coverage. Cross has 120/125 STABS and 125 base coverage moves. And Close Combat. Close Combat still the best offensive move in the game lol.

And Mawile DOESNT have good priority that's the problem. It's priority that can be played around. This isnt M!Khan who has a usable speed stat to use against things that can get around Sucker Punch and again considering how insanely common WoW is it puts M!Mawile in a weird position. It feels a lot like M!Luke to me, dangerous on paper but just not capable of taking advantage of it well enough. It's literally just a worse version of M!Khan so why use it? I mean at least until M!Khan gets banned lol.

the way to use m-mawile is to pair it with a reliable switch-in to wow or to build the team around it completely. one thing that i tried that had reasonable success was pairing mawile with dual screens+healing wish latias. perfect type combo, it lets mawile have two tries to break down rotom-w/other wispers simply by attacking and switching out before dying to attack+burn damage, then letting lati screen up/sacrifice itself to let mawile try to sweep again.

 

[UltiMario]

Smogons DPP stuff is way out of date. It has Umbreon as OU. This happened after 5th gen came out. Take everything with a grain of salt lol.

Smogon doesn't update tiers, and generally doesn't do much except clean up sets after the next gens come out. It's "out of date" because they leave the meta as it was at the end of their lifetime. Umbreon was OU for like 9 months of Gen 4, sporadically. 3 of those months happened to be the last 3 months of Gen 4 lol

The point still stands: Sub was the standard for Gen 4 gar

 

[Player-4]

Idc what Smogon sets are lol, from what I played, and trust me I played a lot, SubGar wasn't common, at least not 6 years ago.

Maybe they had Sub and I never saw it, but I just didn't see sub very much.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Nah Umbreon was definitely UU even after Gen 5 came out. And I only remember that because Mow loves talking about that pokemon so i was constantly looking up its page.

SubGar was definitely a standard set in gen 4 but i wouldnt call it THE standard. I saw significantly more MysticGar during the platinum meta. It was was definitely more common in the higher ratings lol.

 

[IceArrow]

SubGar was always the best set because of how effective it was. Sub extremely helped with avoiding pursuits, blocking statuses, and helped it be a lot more durable. Rather than me talking Ill just quote its gen 4 analysis. I don't know how you can keep arguing with the main Smogon analyisis of 4th gen Gengar.

"Since Gengar's excellent type coverage forces a lot of switches, it can use Substitute to great effect. It helps deal with Tyranitar and Scizor, two of Gengar's greatest nemeses, by scouting the switch and letting Gengar hit them with the appropriate 4x super effective attack. Substitute is especially important given the popularity of Choice Scarf Tyranitar, which would otherwise be able to pick off Gengar with near impunity. It also allows Gengar to evade status such as Celebi and Blissey's Thunder Wave. "

 

[Player-4]

I guess you're not cool unless you're a Smogonite

 

[Wave⁂]

in the scenario that only smogonites can understand logic, yes

 

[choknater]

sub gar is definitely great!!

but with mega-gar, it could be not as great as just abusing his offense to revenge kill, since he doesn't have leftovers recovery

 

[IceArrow]

Ya lol, you guys are right SubGar has and always will suck.

 

[kirbyraeg]

so gengarite got banned, lol

was this good or not?

 

[Gamegenie222]

It was kinda expected TBH. I knew Mega Gengar was gonna get banned sooner or later. Now I wait for Mega Kanghasan.

 

[Plum]

It won't be soon enough to say goodbye to MegaKhan.
I didn't think too much of it at first when I had my first look at the various Megas... but oh god once I started to play with/against it it became far too evident how unstoppable it is.

 

[Pink Reaper]

MegaKhan isnt unstoppable, it's just too ****ing hard to stop. Dedicating a team slot to something like Rocky Helm Ferrothorn just to be able to counter this one pokemon(That has frequently been running Fire Punch anyways) is kind of annoying. There's some real solid counters to it like Terrakion but the fact of the matter is 99% of them cant switch in and arent that great of pokemon(Except terrakion)

It's too strong for OU.

 

[Damittom]

Slightly relevant to the topic at hand, but I came across this yesterday and had to share it because its so awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JnEXgizhoM

 

[choknater]

ROFL

yo kangaskhunt!!!

 

[Gamegenie222]

That mom and Son bonding time. They play eat together, live together and sweep teams and ruin dreams and create salt together.

Also speaking of Kangaskhan it is being discuss right now on Smogon of banning it or not.

 

[choknater]

all kangaskhan are female tho so it's definitely a daughter

#evenmoremixups
#attractkangaskhunt

 

[Pink Reaper]

Imma start using Worry Seed Whimsicott as my counter to MegaKhan.

 

[Gamegenie222]

all kangaskhan are female tho so it's definitely a daughter

#evenmoremixups
#attractkangaskhunt

So it's the mother/daughter bodybag bonding special. That's works as well.

 

[Wave⁂]

my surefire khan counter is not playing until she gets banned

 

[Pink Reaper]

I'd been running Terrakion as a check. I was running scarf originally to also give me something to hit Scarf Genesect but i've been considering a switch to SD+3 Attacks. Khan has literally no way of dealing with it. Unless it subs. But if it has sub it can be dealt with other ways.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Speaking of Mega- Kanghaskan they just banned it. Now that's 3 Mega's that Smogon banned.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/#post-5074927