Pokemon X and Y: Competitive Gen VI Discussion

[UltiMario]

Preparing for nonexistent threats is pointless?

Says the man who ran Specs Swampert

 

[Wave⁂]

Specs Swampert completely countered Metagross, the most common lead at the time

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[UltiMario]

GK too stronk tho

 

[IceArrow]

Oh ya, Specs Swampert was amazing in 4th gen.

 

[ss118]

If I was ever against Swampert in gen IV I just exploded on it.

****ed me up the one time someone protected with it first turn.

I personally think that Mega-Gengar isn't quick bannable after playing against so many. I think there's a better case for quick banning Mega-Kangaskhan, though even then I'm skeptical to suggest that.

How does that spiritomb deal with Hypnosis m-gengar?

 

[UltiMario]

Official ulti tier list for megas (no particular order within tiers)

Broken as **** Tier

Mewtwo X/Y
Blaziken

Going to be ubers eventually Tier
Kangaskhan
Gengar

Top Tier
Pinsir
Charizard X
Mawile

High Tier:
Venusaur
Tyranitar
Scizor
Lucario

Mid Tier
Charizard Y
Aggron
Garchomp
Gyarados
Blastoise

I can't decide if these two are Mid or Bad so they get their own tier Tier
Absol
Medicham

Bad Tier
Gardevoir
Ampharos
Houndoom
Manectric

Why do they even exist Tier
Aerodactyl
Abomasnow
Heracross
Banette
Alakazam


Tiers decided on 2 things: How good the mega is, and how worth the mega is for your slot. The former is obvious, and stuff like Mega Chomp and Mega Gyara are pretty good- but there's very little reason to use either stone, is an example of the latter.

 

[ss118]

What do you mean "official"?

Edit: I read "ulti" as "ultimate" for whatever reason. Derp.

I agree with the first four, but I think Lucario is way too high on your list. It is worth the slot less than M-Gyarados imo. Gyarados > Garchomp as well, and I would put venusaur lower but that's my opinion.

 

[Gunla]

What do you mean "official"?

Edit: I read "ulti" as "ultimate" for whatever reason. Derp.

I agree with the first four, but I think Lucario is way too high on your list.

I can attest. I rarely see Mega-Lucario online, but when I do, I one shot it almost every time.

 

[Vixen]

anyone play pokebank ou on ps? :3

hit me up. c:

 

[Player-4]

Mega Chomp is a beast and a good Agi check

 

[ss118]

So is Landorus-T and regular Garchomp and any decently bulky ground... until it runs shadow ball.

 

[Player-4]

I don't play shoddy anymore so Landorus-T isn't an option and regular Chomp just doesn't have the bulk that Mega does, and if you run HP invested Mega, Shadow Ball isn't a big deal. I've been running Mega Chomp on my main team and he always puts in work.

 

[IceArrow]

Yes but a different mega would add a lot more value toward your team.

 

[Vixen]

gliscor can handle shadow ball aegislash 1 on 1. i've tested this extensively.

 

[choknater]

i agree with your list it's really good

as for "why" mega abomasnow exists.... i believe he can be a beast in doubles. he has a 131 spA blizzard, and can partner with more grass-supporting pokemon like rototillers and flower veil... also very slow, so he may be able to fight in trick room.. i wanna try him out!

i also think mega-manectric is pretty good with his basic offensive set:
- charge beam
- volt switch
- hp ice
- flamethrower

his high speed coupled with intimidate and volt switch allows for a team to keep offensive momentum. of course, i do think rotom-w is still much better for the role, but mega-manectric can do neat things like kill dragons and ferrothorn. he can revenge kill a poke with charge beam, or threaten unboosted gyarados or skarm with a KO, and he'll get a good chance for a boost. since he has such a fast volt switch, sometimes my manectric dies to hazards more than he does to actual damage, lol.

and yeah... mega banette, sigh... no matter how much i try, i can't figure out how to make it good. the best it can do is trade with a setup sweeper by using priority destiny bond but... ugh, other than that, it does nothing.

 

[Wave⁂]

Yes but a different mega would add a lot more value toward your team.

This is basically the entire Mega metagame. There's HUGE opportunity cost associated with running ANY Mega Pokemon.

 

[Player-4]

Yes but a different mega would add a lot more value toward your team.

That's an ignorant statement, teams are about synergy and my current team has great synergy with Mega Chomp, if I threw Lucario in over Chomp I could find myself a hole very quickly.

Trust me, I understand what you said but the point remains that I've built my team to mesh with Chomp, not Lucario, not Ttar, not Gyara. But I'm currently working on another team with Mega Scizor atm, just need to think who I want him to run with. Don't get me wrong, there are better Mega's and I think Scizor is gonna be great in my next team, but I feel like people are writing Chomp off a little quickly.

 

[UltiMario]

Moved luke down to high but otherwise I'm pretty adamant about my opinions =p

That's an ignorant statement, teams are about synergy and my current team has great synergy with Mega Chomp, if I threw Lucario in over Chomp I could find myself a hole very quickly.

Trust me, I understand what you said but the point remains that I've built my team to mesh with Chomp, not Lucario, not Ttar, not Gyara. But I'm currently working on another team with Mega Scizor atm, just need to think who I want him to run with. Don't get me wrong, there are better Mega's and I think Scizor is gonna be great in my next team, but I feel like people are writing Chomp off a little quickly.

He means that you could just run normal Garchomp, and drop an additional support that is required for Mega Chomp to be effective (kinda sad when a mega needs more support than its base to work), and then get an additional mega, like Kanga or something that is effective in essentially every scenario and does not need any real form of team support to be effective. You get to have 2 top tier pokemon instead of 1 that way, which Mega Chomp is kinda bad.

Also art mega gyara is bad if people predict its your mega (no lefties and nothing else mega evolving is basically a dead giveaway). U-Turning on Gyarados with Gene is fun

 

[ss118]

that has happened to me ulti and it made me feel stupid lol.

I mean, I don't think m-gyarados is bad even if they know about it. It's only bad if people know the exact moment you decide to mega evolve. I guess you could do something like bring in rotom and force the m-evolution, but it's not like Genesect gets in for free.

 

[IceArrow]

I don't think it's ignorant at all, I'm trying to help. And Ulti is right, I'm not saying mega Garchomp is not usable but teams only get one Mega and mega Garchomp fills about the same roles as regular Garchomp and a mega like gengar or kangaskhan would help a lot more.

 

[kirbyraeg]

How does that spiritomb deal with Hypnosis m-gengar?

hypnosis messes it up a lot, but with the way sleep mechanics work it is fairly likely to wake up and 2hko with pursuit/shadow sneak before it can be put to sleep again. they could switch out after hitting the first hypnosis, so ehhh that 100% ****s it up. I suppose it could run Lum Berry if you REALLY wanted to, but that does mess up its viability at doing anything besides countering m-gar a ton.

 

[choknater]

ghosts are immune to shadow tag as well, so no problem

 

[Player-4]

I don't think it's ignorant at all, I'm trying to help. And Ulti is right, I'm not saying mega Garchomp is not usable but teams only get one Mega and mega Garchomp fills about the same roles as regular Garchomp and a mega like gengar or kangaskhan would help a lot more.

Lol I said I understood what you were getting at but I don't think you guys are getting where I'm coming from, the way my current team is set up it utilizes Mega Chomp in the way I can't with normal Chomp, idk I feel like there's too much theory crafting in the Pokemon scene and no enough raw experience. Have any of you guys used Mega Chomp yet? I don't wanna come off butt hurt or over zealous about Chomp but I'm just speaking out of experience of what my team does and how everyone works together. Honestly though I am going to try Mega Scizor over a steel I have and try LO Chomp and see how it does, hopefully closing a few holes in my team, but we'll see.

And Ulti I don't feel like Mega Chomp needs sand to be effective (I assume that's what you're getting at), maybe I'm biased but I've just had a lot of success with Mega Chomp. I've worked with him since 4th gen so I know how to use him pretty well I guess.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Lol I said I understood what you were getting at but I don't think you guys are getting where I'm coming from, the way my current team is set up it utilizes Mega Chomp in the way I can't with normal Chomp, idk I feel like there's too much theory crafting in the Pokemon scene and no enough raw experience. Have any of you guys used Mega Chomp yet? I don't wanna come off butt hurt or over zealous about Chomp but I'm just speaking out of experience of what my team does and how everyone works together. Honestly though I am going to try Mega Scizor over a steel I have and try LO Chomp and see how it does, hopefully closing a few holes in my team, but we'll see.

And Ulti I don't feel like Mega Chomp needs sand to be effective (I assume that's what you're getting at), maybe I'm biased but I've just had a lot of success with Mega Chomp. I've worked with him since 4th gen so I know how to use him pretty well I guess.

I used megachomp on one of my teams and I feel like the raw boost in attack power is only beneficial if it is also run on a sand team, as otherwise he has superior offensive power and speed with a Life Orb and its bulk doesn't increase enough after mega-evolving to let it survive things it couldn't survive already as regular chomp. On a sand team or as an anti-sand countermeasure, sure, it has merit, but other than that I'd say I was pretty underwhelmed by speedy megachomp and bulky megachomp, both of which i tried

 

[Pink Reaper]

I find it unlikely that Mega Mawile will be Top Tier when 30% of all teams run WoW Rotom-W. Reliance on Sucker Punch to beat things just doesnt work and a burned mega mawile is literally worthless even with Huge Power.

Also you're definitely sleeping hard on M!Aerodactyl and M!Heracross. Aerodactyl's absurd speed stat and 135 base attack with Tough Claws are no joke. M!Heracross definitely isnt great because of that crappy speed loss but 185 Base attack with Skill Link Pin Missle, Rock Blast and Bullet Seed is absurd. It definitely needs support in the form of sticky web or a speed pass but it's definitely a monster that can OHKO pretty much everything in the game.

Kirbyraed you're definitely using Mega Chomp wrong. You shouldnt be trying to play it like normal chomp since normal chomp does that better. M!Chomp is unquestionably the best wall breaker in the game however. That 120 SpAtk let's it OHKO things normal chomp wouldnt ever be able to touch, especially bulky steels.

Also for what it's worth I've been at least trying Mega Ampharos. It's kinda lols. It's really bulky and crazy strong but it's just so god damn slow. It takes prediction to use but it has it's niche. It works great against Rotom-A who basically cant touch it with it's 4x Resistance to Elec and Water resist, and it's an amazing Talonflame counter as well. I've been running it as a pivot with Volt Switch along with Genesect. Definitely not the best Mega but usable if only because of it's bulk and ridiculous power. It's huge number of resists help as well.

IDK I've been trying all the Megas just to see how they do. Venu has been the most underwhelming, there's too many outright better bulky pokemon you could be running, and while think fat is nice it can still be 2HKO'd by a lot of strong Fire Attacks and it doesnt deal well with stuff like Trevenant just straight up walling it if it's not running Sludge Bomb. The huge Talonflame weakness also hinders it significantly.

Mega Blastoise is another wholly underwhelming pokemon. Mega Launcher is great and all but it's still crazy slow and susceptile to a lot of 2HKOs. Mega Charizard X is good. Not great just good. Having to come in as Normal Charizard is it's biggest weakness losing 50% to SR and still sitting on 100 speed is painful even with DD. It still outright loses to Scarf Chomp, Bulky Gyarados and bulky Rotom-W.

Charizard-Y is just bad lol. Auto Sun is awesome but it's typing is just worthless and again there's the 50% SR problem compounded by the fact that it cant switch out because it still loses 50%. It's also 100% walled by Heatran if it doesnt run a ground move but then it's walled by Bulky Latias as well as the assault vest pokemon running round. Assault Vest TTar stands out for shutting down the sun as well.

Mega Gardevoir LOL BULLET PUNCH

Mega TTar still has that DDtar going for it as well as bulky sets and even mixtar if you want. It's literally just a better at everything other than Special Walling because it cant assault vest version of normal Tar. Why did Normal Tar need to be better?

Mega Scizor is my favorite hands down. Just the best priority user in the game. It's typing, Swords Dance, Roost and Knock Off just make it a pain in the ass to deal with overall. It's an amazing pokemon which is just hand down better than normal Scizor especially since Genesect is legal making U-Turn scouting not as meaningful.

Havent gotten to the other Megas yet. Dont really feel the need to use stuff like Mega Banette or Mega Houndoom. They're clearly just not worth it.

Mega Pinsir is absurd. Like actually absurd. SD Quick Attack can like, 2HKO everything. Holy balls. Thank god it's typing somehow gets worse when it mega evolves.

Mega Kangaskhan needs to just go to Ubers already. **** that pokemon.

Mega Lucario is just underwhelming entirely, but that's because I feel like most people are just using it wrong. Mix Luke or straight Special Luke would probably be significantly better than Standard CC/BP/Crunch luke. Most teams just arent prepared to handle it. I've been trying to make physical luke work and it just doesnt.

Mega Absol is weird. It has 115 SpAtk which no one thinks about. SD Sucker Punch is great and all but dont forget it learns Fire Blast, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam as well. I want to try Mixed M!Absol.

 

[UltiMario]

For M-Hera: PR remember you do not get LO with mega evos, 185 attack is impressive but it's like LO Mence power, which is strong but not OHKOing things unboosted. You're not getting past a lot of stuff. One of the best roles it could've served in the meta imo, a SubPuncher, was completely nullified by the fact that Focus Punch + Rock Blast are illegal together, making it simply unable to use a lot of its raw power. Arm Thust being weak as **** does it no favors either.

Mega Aero is complete **** because all of the moves it wants to run aren't contact, therefore, it doesn't get the boost. It essentially only has unboosted 135 atk. And no bulk. And a higher speed tier which doesn't help it more than regular Aero's. It's garbage.

Mega Mawile is top for the reason that it actually has a huge niche over other megas, and generally is never a waste of a slot. It IS very sucker punch reliant, but late game, that often doesn't matter.

 

[ss118]

Actually Stone Edge now is considered a contact move in gen VI, but even then it does no damage as far as I've seen(and I ran adamant).

M-Heracross is ok for bulky sets, but ulti kinda hit the fact that it just gets beat up. If it just got a little faster or maybe it had a better ability, but as it stands now no. I would have preferred it keep guts to make it absurd after taking WoW's that are everywhere.

 

[Pink Reaper]

M!Hera doesnt get LO but it does get SD lol. What survives +2 off of a 185 attack stat?

M!Mawile just strikes me as a bad version of M!Scizor or M!Khan(though i still expect Khan to get banned) because it really cant do much without priority and it's sitting on one of the worst priority moves because it doesnt work against the things it really needs to work against. Hell even SD Absol works better just because it can run mix and has usable speed. IDK I've run into tons of Mega Mawiles and just outright destroyed all of them. I rarely even lose a single pokemon to M!Mawile.

It really feels like WoW is the absolute most meta move in Gen 6. I have not run into a single team that wasnt using it. It's just too ****ing common for something like a slow sucker punch sweeper to work.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Actually Stone Edge now is considered a contact move in gen VI, but even then it does no damage as far as I've seen(and I ran adamant).

M-Heracross is ok for bulky sets, but ulti kinda hit the fact that it just gets beat up. If it just got a little faster or maybe it had a better ability, but as it stands now no. I would have preferred it keep guts to make it absurd after taking WoW's that are everywhere.

How'd you figure it makes contact now?

Every source I found says it doesn't still

 

[choknater]

chesnaught blocks shadow ball and sludge bomb... LOL!!

 

[Gamegenie222]

I agree Mega Khanghsan is busted and I wont be surprised of it being banned soon. Also I haven't come across a Mega Heracross yet at all.

EDIT: Also what do people think about Mega Blastoise and Venusuar I haven't seen much of these pokes either?

 

[UltiMario]

Whatever can survive hits from SD LO chomp can survive hits from SD Heracross, pretty much. Skarm is the worst offender in terms of walls for obvious reasons, being abe to OHKO Hera with BB. Lets not forget either that SD Mega Hera loses to offense thanks to just getting outsped and 2HKO'd by the general meta.

Stone Edge was not changed to contact. There was, however, a bug in PS for a while where all physical moves where boosted by tough claws. Maybe thats what you're thinking of?

Also 99.9% of people who use Mawile are **** at using it. Most people just go for the SD sweep the first turn Mawile is in, when its perfectly fine to use it just to hit stuff. If you really want to have a reliable Sucker Punch, sub mawile is pretty viable. It IS a strictly worse Kanga, but it doesn't mean its bad. I don't get how you could see M-Hera as good cuz 185 attack when Mawile is sitting at 260 attack, and has good priority, and think its bad lol

 

[IceArrow]

Player-4, you mind posting your M! Garchomp team?

 

[UltiMario]

Can we stop using M! Instead of M-

Giratina!O

Rotom!W

How about no

 

[Wave⁂]

Ulti!Mario

 

[IceArrow]

W!O!W Ulti!

!IceArrow

 

[choknater]

omg AND focus blast? bulletproof niche is so hilarious lol

who knew CHESNAUGHT could be a wall to offensive gengar

maybe a lot of people knew already >_>

 

[UltiMario]

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure Focus Blast is not nullified by bulletproof (there was a misconception for a while that it was, though).

Also, for the record, good Gengar run Sludge WAVE anyways, so Chensaught gets OHKO'd by it.

 

[Player-4]

Player-4, you mind posting your M! Garchomp team?

Eh I guess not

T-Tar - Adamant lead @ Leftovers (thinking about a balloon for an immune switch later or something, but lefties aren't really doing much atm.)
Rocks
Stone Edge
Crunch
Pursuit

Garchomp - Jolly @ Mega Stone (just switched for LO like I said I'd try and it worked nicely for the first match I've played with it)
Dragon Claw
EQ
Stone Edge
Crunch

Noivern - Timid @ specs
Draco Meteor
Hurricane
Flamethrower
Focus Blast

Azumarill - Adamant @ CB
Aqua Jet
Waterfall
Play Rough
Superpower

Zapdos - Bold @ Leftovers
Discharge
Toxic
Roost
Light Screen (left it on till I got Roar but opted to leave it for the time being giving me good match ups against pretty much anything special attacking and toxic stalling or peppering it with Discharge till either dead or paralyzed, works out nicely against Gengar, bulky ice beamers, or just team support in general)

Metagross - Adamant @ Weakness Policy
Meteor Mash
EQ
Zen Headbutt
Agility

I'm current replacing Metagross for Mega Scizor and LO on Chomp over Mega Stone

Scizor - Impish @ Mega Stone
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Rock Smash (technician boost and 50% def drop is fun to play around with since he's a straight def wall and not an all out attacker)
Roost

Basically Scizor is Skarmory with attacks, 252 HP and Def. I knew I had a Mamo problem and kind of a water (ice beamers) problem when I made the team but I figured I'd just muscle through it, Scizor gives me double priority with Azuma and stops Mamo completely. I could switch Rock Smash with SD on Scizor but Like I said I'm just trying it out and I like the type coverage.

 

[Player-4]

Ulti Gengar doesn't learn Sludge Wave?

And don't Gengar's mostly run Dazzling Gleam over Focus Blast anyways?