Pokemon X and Y: Competitive Gen VI Discussion

[Wave⁂]

Mega Luke strikes me as a Limbo mon. In theory it's absurd, SD Adaptability Close Combat literally wrecks the whole meta, but his actual moveset is pretty easily walled by something like Bulky Gyara and he's pretty easy to OHKO honestly. Maybe it's because I play sticky web on my team but he also doesnt seem to be fast enough to be a solid threat. He loses outright to any strong Scarfer with a super effective move.

You say that some Pokemon are terrible if you have Sticky Web up. I find this line of thought flawed. New Defog takes care of Sticky Web just fine. You also predict that Galvantula is unquestionably OU, which suggests that you can counter Sticky Web with Sticky Web, making both a non-factor. Especially when you use the opposite logic here:

I've been playing with Excadrill a lot recently and it seems very much not Uber in this gen. [...] Also lack of permanent sand is very very easily rectified by Sticky Web. Base 88 Speed suddenly seems amazing when everything is at -1 haha.

You can't selectively choose when you have Sticky Web and when your opponent has it if it is allegedly going to be super popular.

Agreed. I personally don't use SD because I think it hit hard enough naturally(2HKOing Skarmory without SR with CC), but I haven;t touched it since a M-Gengar was not OHKOed by Crunch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mega Lucario is almost guaranteed to OHKO Mega Gengar with SR up. And always OHKOs Gengar before it can go Mega. And always gets revenge killed by it, but Mega Gengar revenge kills pretty much everything.

Trevenant/Gourgeist: What weird pokemon. I expect one, the other, or both to be OU simply on account of being basically the best bulky spin blockers in the game. They are the new DPP Rotom Formes. Access to Leech Seed+WoW is awesome and their typing is not to be underestimated

I disagree. First of all, Aegislash is the best bulky spin blocker in the game. I don't care how bad you think his SD set is, it's still better defensively. Second, you can't spinblock Defog.

Azumarill: Is not OU. Sorry Art, sorry Max, it's true. Belly Drum Aqua Jet is great and all but it's not a pokemon that can pull it off well even with the new fairy typing. It's still a strong pokemon, it's still viable and you can definitely make it work in OU, but it just dies so easily and isnt particularly dangerous honestly.

CB or Sub 3 Attack Azumarill are far better then Belly Drum IMO.

Greninja: God damn this pokemon. If it wasnt for Protean this pokemon wouldnt even matter. But it gets it. And as such it's so god damn annoying to try and counter it. STAB on everything is really freaking annoying lol. Thank god it's not super strong and has poor defenses. Still, it gets STAB on everything, even Hidden Power. As an offensive Spiker it's probably the best in the game.

STAB Hidden Power isn't strong enough to make Greninja a HUGE threat. Yes, Greninja will counter pretty much everything if its set is Hydro Pump / Waterfall / Ice Beam / U-Turn / Dark Pulse / every Hidden Power type. But you obviously cannot run that, which means you are always vulnerable.

The problem is that running sucker punch as your only way to hit ghosts gets you ****ed, but not running fake out loses you a lot of utility. He just BARELY suffers enough from 4MSS to just be handleable. He just swept me twice the last day or two, though. Nonetheless, he is more than decent as I'm playing vs him and using him.

A lot of people are hyping up Pokemon with Sucker Punch, but the move isn't that great, you can't use it as a sure-fire "OHKO Ghosts gg" move. In previous generations, it was a pretty common move in lower tiers for some reason, and I played a decent amount of NU. It's just too easy to play around.

There are too many pokemon that cause problems for bulky offensive teams that metagross likes to be a part of, but he helps NONE in handling those particular pokemon. First one that comes to mind is Rotom and Landorus(the latter can't come into too many MMs, but more than last gen because of the base power nerf). With the nerfed explosion it's just fodder for defensive teams, and sure I guess offensive teams have trouble with Assault vest metagross... but that's all. Your team seems well designed vs those players, but I'm not sure how well it would ever handle a stall team unless they just literally don't check one of your six team members.

I don't think this is big enough of a problem, really. It's like saying Garchomp is unusable because Togekiss exists. Yes, Garchomp loses to Togekiss and Metagross loses to Rotom. But you have five other Pokemon on your team to take care of those counters.

I even said it will always set up; and to that I say, so what? Maybe(again!) vs hyper aggressive teams it's very good, but from my experience it doesn't do anything. If it got WoW it would be broken, but without that just intimidaters **** it up, EQ ****s it up, you always get free switches on it, and Shadow Sneak isn't that powerful. I dunno, on my teams I have Landorus, Garchomp, Gyarados, Dragonite... just a few pokemon that **** it up. It's a flexible enough pokemon to stay OU, for sure. One thing I hate about it is that if you understand how pokemon works you can force 50/50's with it using King's Shield which is bull****, but it's the opponent's fault to even have that be a potential problem.

EQ doesn't fick it up, because it has Balloon so it's immune to like every type in the game or something. Intimidate does not **** it up: Gyarados gets destroyed by Shadow Ball BECAUSE AEGISLASH HAS ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY BASE SPECIAL ATTACK and Landorus can't OHKO it through Balloon and gets destroyed by HP Ice BECAUSE AEGISLASH HAS ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY BASE SPECIAL ATTACK.

What the **** is Florges?

It think Florges is pretty comparable to a gen IV Vaporeon, though more focused on SpDef.

 

[choknater]

i can vouch for DD mega ttar

thing is just outrageously good

 

[UltiMario]

Not quoting anything (too lazy) but just I'll go down the list:

Mega TTar is bad. DDTar died when the choice scarf reared its ugly head, then died again when Scizor came. Then died again when Conk came. Then died again when Techniloom came. If you can't count, that's four deaths now. It's bad.

Mega Luke, Gar, and Kanga are super scary please nobody contest this

Mega Mawile forces you to run a check to it but if you have one it really can't do any damage.

Mega Zards are actually pretty good, and X is better. It's like the Volcarona of Salamence or something, needs team support but it's arguably the deadliest DD user in OU.

Drill is super good but not borked.

Doublade will be fine in UU, especially if it doesn't get Pain Split (we'll figure this out when Pokebank hits)

Aegi's best sets are not its SD sets lol. Shadow Ball from 150 SpA is waaaaay more scary than SD.

Sticky Web is godlike on paper but it just doesn't work anymore thanks to defog and drill who completely neuter any way to keep it up.

Talonflame might actually not be BL since it actually loses to a few UU mons since it has 0 coverage (Empoleon is like one of the best counters for it in the game lol, Rotom-H isn't bad either)

TYRANTRUM IS SO GOOD but it needs Rock Head to be released. Choice Band Head Smash ****in 2HKOs Phys def cressy w/o hazards that **** is insane.

Klefki is **** with defog around. Azu/Kiss/Sylveon are the big 3 for fairies. Sylveon pretty much outclasses Florges, slightly less special bulk and negligibly higher speed vs better physical bulk, more power (Pixilate provides an LO boost), bigger wishes, and access to Shadow Ball to not be set-up bait for Aegi and Gar. Kiss is obv. Whats with the azu hate though? It's gooooood.

Metagross is bad in this meta (it'll fall to UU without a doubt) BUT it AV gives it niches. It's better than like 80% of the mons in this game in OU still but considering you need to be better than like 90% of the mons in the game to be used in OU that's not doing it many favors. It even has some niches in Ubers- but basically AV Meta beats what it beats REALLY HARD and is generally one of the only things in the meta that CAN counter whatever its going again... and it just kinda falls to pieces vs everything else.

Greninja is good but I just don't see any reason to run it over Genesect. I guess in "current" OU (but **** that Pokebank all the way I'm not learning RS200 2.0 just for it to go away in december) Geninja is a super good option but as long as Gene remains, it's better for fast STAB U-Turn with moves that can KO a bunch of stuff.

 

[ss118]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mega Lucario is almost guaranteed to OHKO Mega Gengar with SR up. And always OHKOs Gengar before it can go Mega. And always gets revenge killed by it, but Mega Gengar revenge kills pretty much everything.

You are correct. As you mentioned with Sticky Web, Defog is a factor, sometimes to conserve momentum I don't use SR, sometimes I don't feel like I need SR since I don't need to it handle threats, and sometimes I just don't get it up due to the user being useless. This isn't gen IV where you could easily get SR out consistently, and I don't like to play in a manner that relies on it. That is why I don't use M-Lucario now.

A lot of people are hyping up Pokemon with Sucker Punch, but the move isn't that great, you can't use it as a sure-fire "OHKO Ghosts gg" move. In previous generations, it was a pretty common move in lower tiers for some reason, and I played a decent amount of NU. It's just too easy to play around.

In lower tiers pokemon used it because they needed too, but I generally tried to avoid using it because **** like Misdreavus in LC would sub and mess your whole day up. I think Murkrow in LC could use it because it only used it for scarfers, really.

I don't think this is big enough of a problem, really. It's like saying Garchomp is unusable because Togekiss exists. Yes, Garchomp loses to Togekiss and Metagross loses to Rotom. But you have five other Pokemon on your team to take care of those counters.

The problem with your example is that Togekiss is easy to handle for bulky offensive teams. Flying isn't that hard to switch into and though paralysis sucks, Ground/ electric types are common enough. The problem with Metagross counters is the amount of momentum you lose. Skarmory gets free Spikes, Forretress gets a ****ton of random stuff with Ferrothorn, Rotom-W gets either a free burn(which COMPLETELY sucks) or a free volt switch... Metagross doesn't have a way to work with momentum after losing Explosion. I am not saying it isn't dangerous, but free turns are something I never like to give. Just between gen IV to gen V Metagross lost 50% of its highest damage output(Explosion nerf), and in gen V to gen VI Metagross only does 90% of the potential damage of last gen with its standard attack.

EQ doesn't fick it up, because it has Balloon so it's immune to like every type in the game or something. Intimidate does not **** it up: Gyarados gets destroyed by Shadow Ball BECAUSE AEGISLASH HAS ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY BASE SPECIAL ATTACK and Landorus can't OHKO it through Balloon and gets destroyed by HP Ice BECAUSE AEGISLASH HAS ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY BASE SPECIAL ATTACK.

I have seen a total of one Aegislash with Balloon, and tbh you just let something hit it and then kill it afterwards. I'm ignoring special attacks on it because no one uses those on it(yet), and the sets that do... ok? It has more immediate power, but I'm not scared of it sweeping anymore with that speed. Having to use King's Shield everytime after attacking opens it up to giving away free stat up turns. And because you're so obsessed with this, let's take note that you're using balloon and pull random damage calculations.

252+ SpA (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 107-126 (32.32 - 38.06%) -- 97.36% chance to 3HKO
oh that did... so... much...
with SR yes that's a chunk, but again with SP attacks and Balloon you just don't do enough.
252+ SpA (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 107-126 (32.32 - 38.06%) -- 1.95% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 139-164 (41.99 - 49.54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 139-164 (41.99 - 49.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I think people forget that Gyarados is actually decently bulky on the special side, and I also think people forget that damage is more based off of base power of moves than the stat behind it, so... yeah.

It think Florges is pretty comparable to a gen IV Vaporeon, though more focused on SpDef.

Oh the flower thingy? I've noticed it's decently tanky but I've had more trouble with Sylveon lately(mono attacking CM and generic wish sets are annoying akin to gen IV Vaporeon).

 

[Circa]

(Pixilate provides an LO boost)

Wait that's a thing? I didn't realize that. Looking up the ability though, the description is kind of ambiguous. Do abilities like Pixilate and Refrigerate only boost type-swapped Normal-type moves or does it boost the power of Fairy and Ice-type moves, respectively?

It wouldn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to just boost type-swapped stuff, but then again this is Game Freak we're talking about.

 

[Wave⁂]

I just redid your calcs, because the numbers just seem way too low.

252+ SpA (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 160-189 (48.33 - 57.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

https://i.minus.com/iGvOSnxlCyM8W.png

Also, just for fun, if you're running a 252 Atk / 252 SpAtk set with Quiet nature:

Shadow Ball: 48.33 - 57.09%
Shadow Sneak: 26.58 - 31.72%
Stealth Rock: 25%

128 Atk / 128 SpAtk Quiet nature:

Shadow Ball: 44.71 - 52.87%
Shadow Sneak: 24.77 - 29.3%
Stealth Rock: 25%

 

[Pink Reaper]

Mega TTar is bad. DDTar died when the choice scarf reared its ugly head, then died again when Scizor came. Then died again when Conk came. Then died again when Techniloom came. If you can't count, that's four deaths now. It's bad.

Except no. Mega TTar DOESNT get OHKO'd by Conk or Scizor because they decided TTar wasnt bulky enough. I havent ran into a Techniloom Mach Punch(or rather I havent let it happen yet) LO Mach Punch from Conk doesnt OHKO, and CB Scizor only does like, 77% Max i think. Hell Banded Azumarill only does a little over 50% with Aqua Jet. Mega DDTar is NOT DDTar, it's a whole different pokemon.

Edit:

Potential doesnt matter if in game it sucks. You know what looks good "potentially"? Ramparados

Rampardos never looked good potentially. It was a **** pokemon when it came out and it remained a **** pokemon. Anyone who thought it had potential was dumb. Having one useable stat doesnt matter unless your name is Breloom.

 

[ss118]

Not quoting anything (too lazy) but just I'll go down the list

In programming I'm getting used to repetitive tasks like this so it doesn't bother me lol

Mega TTar is bad. DDTar died when the choice scarf reared its ugly head, then died again when Scizor came. Then died again when Conk came. Then died again when Techniloom came. If you can't count, that's four deaths now. It's bad.

Any non DD version of MegaTar is bad. Any DD version of Tar is bad. Have you tried or played against a M-DDTar? From the sounds of it I don't think you have. I suggest trying it or running Bullet Punch/ Mach Punch calcs vs it; you'll be impressed. CB Azu Aqua Jet does 55% iirc.

Mega Luke, Gar, and Kanga are super scary please nobody contest this

Scary? Sure. Good? Yes of course. Great and worth the mega slot? I don't agree on M-Lucario; outside of Close Combat, it doesn't have enough damage output when it matters.

Mega Mawile forces you to run a check to it but if you have one it really can't do any damage.

Same logic applies to a lot of what would normally be considered mediocre pokemon(like metagross)

Mega Zards are actually pretty good, and X is better. It's like the Volcarona of Salamence or something, needs team support but it's arguably the deadliest DD user in OU.

I can see M-Tar and M-Char-X being the best DD users in OU this gen.

Drill is super good but not borked.

We can go with that. I haven't had problems with it yet, personally.

Doublade will be fine in UU, especially if it doesn't get Pain Split (we'll figure this out when Pokebank hits)

Again, don't care about UU[yet]

Aegi's best sets are not its SD sets lol. Shadow Ball from 150 SpA is waaaaay more scary than SD.

I've personally tried both and I find both underwhelming outisde of Shadow Ball's and HP Ice's surprise factor.

Sticky Web is godlike on paper but it just doesn't work anymore thanks to defog and drill who completely neuter any way to keep it up.

Drill because of Rapid Spin? I think regardless of if you keep it up or not it's overrated; who wants to play 5v6 pokemon?

Talonflame might actually not be BL since it actually loses to a few UU mons since it has 0 coverage (Empoleon is like one of the best counters for it in the game lol, Rotom-H isn't bad either)

I see the utility in having the most powerful priority in the game(aside from Sucker Punch), so I wouldn't count it UU yet(wait for people to realize it isn't that good).

TYRANTRUM IS SO GOOD but it needs Rock Head to be released. Choice Band Head Smash ****in 2HKOs Phys def cressy w/o hazards that **** is insane.

Is rock head not released? It seems ok, I can't remember if it has any bulk to it but being weak to Bullet Punch and neutral to most forms of priority would hurt it me thinks. It also isn't that fast(Scarfed genesect still outspeeds it).

Klefki is **** with defog around. Azu/Kiss/Sylveon are the big 3 for fairies.

Agreed, but you can't defog Light Screen and Reflect so beware of that.

Sylveon pretty much outclasses Florges, slightly less special bulk and negligibly higher speed vs better physical bulk, more power (Pixilate provides an LO boost), bigger wishes, and access to Shadow Ball to not be set-up bait for Aegi and Gar. Kiss is obv. Whats with the azu hate though? It's gooooood.

Sylveon seems better everytime I have to fight it, Togekiss just has good stat placement, movepool, and flying typing to complement it... I don't HATE azu. I LOVE Azu. But I'm also not blind; for the Belly Drum set there are too many ways to stop its all-in playstyle, and I think the CB set is hard to abuse in this meta because being stuck in one move is never a good idea(even with the extra power). It is strong and I think it's good, but just not in the ways that everyone wanted him to be(people really wanted to BD with him and take down 2-3 pokemon; he currently takes out maybe 1 doing so).

Metagross is bad in this meta (it'll fall to UU without a doubt) BUT it AV gives it niches. It's better than like 80% of the mons in this game in OU still but considering you need to be better than like 90% of the mons in the game to be used in OU that's not doing it many favors. It even has some niches in Ubers- but basically AV Meta beats what it beats REALLY HARD and is generally one of the only things in the meta that CAN counter whatever its going again... and it just kinda falls to pieces vs everything else.

Metagross is good vs individual pokemon, but is bad vs teams lol. He didn't use to suffer like this, but now he does. =/

Greninja is good but I just don't see any reason to run it over Genesect. I guess in "current" OU (but **** that Pokebank all the way I'm not learning RS200 2.0 just for it to go away in december) Geninja is a super good option but as long as Gene remains, it's better for fast STAB U-Turn with moves that can KO a bunch of stuff.

Genesect, if it wants to match Greninja in speed and use anything that isn't u-turn, is forced into a single move while Greninja has more utility in being able to constantly swap moves. For the record I use genesect lol

*snip*

I apologize, Wave. I forgot to make the pokemon a ghost type. Yes that looks more dangerous in the specific case of Gyarados. This, however, doesn't change my opinion overall on what I said because in this generations(and even last generation) Gyarados is surprisingly mediocre vs the entire metagame. I see some viability in running that set moreso, but I would need to play with it before I can list a full opinion. If you want send it to me via PM or just post it here and I'll give a more fair opinion of it(the only sets I've run are LO +2 Speed and bulky SDer, and I've only run into bulky SDer). It doesn't help that the only pokemon I think that should have ever run Balloon was Excadrill in gen V(just for the mirror match-up), but again gen VI is still new and I don't claim to know everything yet. xD

Edit:

Rampardos never looked good potentially. It was a **** pokemon when it came out and it remained a **** pokemon. Anyone who thought it had potential was dumb. Having one useable stat doesnt matter unless your name is Breloom.

I wasn't saying in your specific case that you thought Ramparados was good(I sure didn't), but I used it as an example of a pokemon with a lot of hype around it that ended up falling to the wind. Should I instead say Rhyperior? Hey Infernape was gonna dominate in gen IV, right!?! There are a lot of other examples, but I just used it as an exaggeration.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Are you saying Infernape DIDNT dominate in gen 4? It was one of the absolute most dangerous pokemon in gen 4, unquestionably lol.

 

[ss118]

I will say that Infernape was a bit easier to handle than people gave credit for. >_>

But who knows, I always ran like Gyarados, Salamence, rotom, azumarill, scizor(quick attack), starmie, gengar, metagross(occa berry), so maybe my opinion of it is unjust. lol

Again I was making more of a comparison to how when gen IV was released everyone thought Infernape could potentially be uber >_>

 

[Pink Reaper]

Nape works pretty well in ubers lol. And it also 2HKO'd Gyarados with grass knot+rocks, and could out speed and OHKO mence with HP Ice. Hell half those pokemon legitimately cant switch in to Nape(actually all of those pokemon legitimately cant switch into nape unless gengar gets CC'd lol) And that's just Mixape. I've used Band and Scarf Nape before which are all of the lols when people switch in counters that then proceed to die. What a great pokemon. I used it through gen 4 and 5 and will continue in gen 6.

Metagross compares favorably to Scizor imo. It does one thing and it does that one thing well but it's still completely walled by certain pokemon. Scizor has the advantage of being able to U-Turn but Gross has the advantage of being able to explode and yes explosion still matters on a pokemon with 400 attack. Its enough to take out stuff like Gyara and Rotom so don't sell it short. Meteor Miss might have taken a nerf in damage but honestly I'll take it for the buff in accuracy and dont forget that Flamethrower also took a slight dip in power. Metagross is a really solid answer to a lot of dangerous special and physical attackers and yes some pokemon straight wall it. Not everything can be infernape, some things just get straight walled. It doesnt make it a bad pokemon it just means you can't 6-0 someone with it. Unless of course you get a couple boosts with MM. Then you can totally 6-0 someone with it.

Edit: Special Aegislash is a joke. Both in that it is hilariously bad and it only works as a joke set, sort of like Chain Chomp. It has no useable special moves(though it gets dual stab i guess) no way to boost and more importantly no way of getting past 90% of the special walls. There's literally no point in using it when SD Slash can actually beat some of its counters.

 

[ss118]

Wait 90% of special walls? Like what? Only Blissey / Tyranitar can actually wall shadow ball for extended periods, both of which are 100% ****ed by Sacred sword. >_>

Also Explosion nerf is big enough that it leaves a 0% dent in anything that resists it. It can still hurt Gyarados and now it can hurt rotom, yes, but vs Skarmory or Forretress or a lot of random pokemon he is 100% a momentum loss. and vs Rotom he would just get outsped and burned, which would be avoidable with Lum but since you're now weak to Ghost you can't afford not to run Assault Vest.

Metagross might compare favorably to Scizor, but both kinda suck compared to like genesect, but at least Scizor has U-turn like you mentioned and a MUCH more powerful Bullet punch(not to mention his item slot can be used offensively).

 

[UltiMario]

I made this post on smogon like 2 weeks ago but I'll copypasta here. Special Aegi isn't really what you run, it's mixed. Considering Shadow Ball is its strongest unboosted attack (It's as strong as +2 Shadow Sneak), and that generally everything that switches into Aegi gets nuked on the special side, it's pretty solid. PR if you think that doing anything except like SD is worthless then you're pretty goddamn mistaken, since its SD sets are honestly bad.

Aegislash @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

Big Calcs with Ghost/Steel Deo-N as aegi, kill after rocks

Spoiler

Flat out kills:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Hippowdon (+SpDef) : 44.05% - 51.9%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ferrothorn (+Def): 48.01 - 56.81%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 95.29 - 113.36%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory (+SpDef) : 55.99% - 66.47%
252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Latias: 90.66% - 107.97%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs 4 HP/0 Def Terrakion: 95.37% - 113.27%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 94.2% - 111.33% (Iron Head is obviously Guaranteed)
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Iron Head vs 252 HP/252 Def Sylveon (+Def) : 89.85% - 106.85%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Iron Head vs 252 HP/252 Def Florges (+Def) : 96.11% - 113.33%

Attack + Shadow Sneak kills:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Garchomp: 66.48% - 78.49%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 4 HP/0 Def Garchomp: 27.65% - 32.96%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 200 HP/0 SpDef Landorus-T: 68.02% - 80.22%
252 -1 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 200 HP/244 Def Landorus-T: 14.91% - 17.89%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Gyarados: 52.67% - 61.83%
252 -1 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 248 HP/252 Def Gyarados (+Def) : 13.99% - 16.28%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Keldeo: 70.06% - 83.02%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 4 HP/0 Def Keldeo: 32.41% - 38.58%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 70.06% - 83.02%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 4 HP/0 Def Terrakion: 32.41% - 38.58%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Salamence: 75.6% - 89.16%
252 -1 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 4 HP/0 Def Salamence: 22.59% - 27.41%

252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs 248 HP/8 Def Heatran: 69.61% - 82.34%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 248 HP/8 Def Heatran: 23.38% - 27.79%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 244 HP/0 SpDef Gliscor: 75.28% - 88.64%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 244 HP/40 Def Gliscor (+Def) : 19.89% - 23.58%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Azumarill: 62.13% - 73.27%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 252 HP/4 Def Azumarill: 28.22% - 33.66%

Spoiler

Random Calcs from a different post that I won't bother trying to squeeze into the other set

252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 94.78 - 112.57%
252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 208.45 - 246.69%

252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 81.51 - 96.35%
252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 16.14 - 19.27%

252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 47.08 - 55.5%

252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Zapdos: 42.81 - 50.13%
252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 28.45 - 33.94%
252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 59.26 - 70.23%
252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Zapdos: 20.36 - 24.54%

252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 57.62 - 68.36%
252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr: 64.56 - 76.11%

252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 51.1 - 60.22%
252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 20.71 - 24.86%
252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Blastoise: 149-177 (41.16 - 48.89%)

252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 71.05 - 83.88%
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Furfrou: 140-166 (39.54 - 46.89%)

Basically all the stuff that helps make SD Aegi nonthreatening, Bulky stuff like Hippowdon and Landorus that just come in on Aegi for free all day die to it. It's way more lethal than SD Aegi is, which is screwed over by everything under the sun.


Also I very much have encountered Mega DDTar, it's mediocre. Every scarfer in the ****ing game outspeeds it, and it takes waaay too much damage and risk trying to set up. It gets no more than 1 kill against a good team, and you could just run TTar and some other better mega on the same team instead and accomplish a kill each with TTar and the mega instead much more easily.

 

[ss118]

You know what's cool about NEEDING a choice scarf pokemon? Your opponent gets a free turn after you kill something. It's called momentum, and choice scarf is really good at flipping momentum temporarily, so while yes you could in theory stop it with with a scarfer, name a scarfer that both handles it and doesn't mind switching into it? I can't think of any.

This is further emphasized by team preview; the ttar player knows the opponents team and can either go heavy attack style where you just throw around moves because **** you he has 164 attack and 71 speed with base 200 sp. def(in SS) and 140 defense and 100 HP, or if you run a single pokemon he can threaten out just once, you risk losing 1-2 pokemon or 1 pokemon and stuck in a weak scarf move vs just losing the pokemon. I think it forces hands better than you give credit for and you're just playing against bad players.

 

[UltiMario]

I think it's less playing against bad players, and more playing teams that are neither set-up bait for it, and also have tools to remove it after a boost.

 

[ss118]

Which is the ideal way to play this game, I agree. That is why I really don't like Metagross in this metagame yet.

Also someone PLEASE explain to me why Blaziken is OU again? Do I really need to run Talonflame/ Azumarill/ Blaziken/ Scizor on all my teams now?

 

[Pink Reaper]

For someone who's so hard up on Gross for getting hard walled by pokemon you seem to really like azumarill lol

 

[ss118]

>_>
<_<
sigh
I can like a pokemon, but I accept it has weaknesses. I'm not blind, I even said earlier in this thread that he might even be as bad as gen IV electivire... despite my particular tastes for certain pokemon over others, I would like to think that I'm not very biased when it comes to talking about why a pokemon is good or not and honestly I'm a bit surprised you'd go as far for when you run out of arguments you just semi-attack my tastes in favorite pokemon. It'd be like talking to pikachufan7776969 and going "for someone who says porygonz is walled by blissey you sure like pikachu"

and yes I realize the example isn't perfect Pikachu has focus punch but it's what came to my head and the point is there. >______<

Edit:

Completely agree. I think if it makes OU it'll be because of a similar effect to that of gen IV electivire(oh god does that pokemon suck)

 

[Pink Reaper]

The problem is you seem to be confusing a tier 1 super OU pokemon with just "An OU pokemon"

Gross is powerful, extremely bulky, has a wide variety of options with and without assault vest and a great typing(Steel is still amazing dont ever think otherwise)

Assault Vest adds more options for Gross making him harder to counter. The fact that some pokemon wall him, the fact that he's not Infernape does not make him a bad or even a poor pokemon.

 

[ss118]

But it is "just an OU pokemon". Between two generations of power creep for almost everything else and very specific nerfs towards Metagross, Assault Vest is the first thing it gets to potentially make it do anything... but then it became weak to dark and ghost.

Steel IS amazing. Just not with psychic anymore. Pyschic used to just make it neutral to fighting, dark, and ghost which combined with his offensive prowess and natural bulk made him a contender for a spot on almost any team. Now it can't even beat what it used to... but the problem is now he went from melee Shiek in the form of "jack of all trades, master of some" and has moved to the brawl Shiek of "dominates certain trades... kinda... sucks at most stuff"

I don't play brawl so excuse the example again. I only have to end like this every time because if there is one tiny obvious flaw in an exaggerated example, it will get pointed out by you even if it doesn't pertain to the argument at hand.

Also I am wondering what you mean by "variety of options"? I only know about MM/EQ/BP/Explosion... two/four of those got nerfed, one is utility priority, and one is just one of the best moves in the game.

 

[Pink Reaper]

That's because you're forgetting literally everything Gross has. Outside of the obvious offensive stuff with elemental punches and such he also has access to crazy levels of support, dual screens, Stealth Rocks, Gravity(no one uses gravity) as well as set ups with Agility. Having assault vest just means you have options for a 4 attacking set that can beat some of it's counters. The problem isn't that Gross is weak it's the fact that no one ever runs anything other than MM/EQ/BP/Explosion

 

[ss118]

Ice punch beats Gliscor / Landorus... and what else? Dragons I guess, but usually MM + BP does just as well. Thunderpunch is for bulky waters and skarmory... maybe I should try t-punch over explosion because god knows that move is awful.

You can't run SR/ Dual screens/ Agility with Assault Vest. I would run SR on it every game if it still had a full powered explosion, all it comes down to is that if you don't run four attacks you can't actually conserve momentum against some of the more popular pokemon(if skarmory/forretress/ferrothorn/rotom-w was in NU, fine w/e dont care about it), and you can only actually keep momentum vs some of these by running four attacks.

idk, I just really don't like switching unless I plan to. And I HATE switching vs rotom-w.

 

[mood4food77]

mega kangaskahn is ****ing terrifying, seriously, that thing is dumb

talonflame is OU, priority brave bird is crazy good, at +2, it 2HKOs heatran and possibly ttar, people are just using it wrong, it's not a revenge killer, it's a clean-up sweeper, once it sets up a SD, it'll 2HKO almost anything, just keep dishing out that damage until talonflame dies, if done right, the opponent will have a severely weakened team, it's really good

why in the world is deoxys allowed in pokebank

 

[Vashimus]

mega kangaskahn is ****ing terrifying, seriously, that thing is dumb

talonflame is OU, priority brave bird is crazy good, at +2, it 2HKOs heatran and possibly ttar, people are just using it wrong, it's not a revenge killer, it's a clean-up sweeper, once it sets up a SD, it'll 2HKO almost anything, just keep dishing out that damage until talonflame dies, if done right, the opponent will have a severely weakened team, it's really good

why in the world is deoxys allowed in pokebank

Mega Kangakhan is easily beaten by Sub/Disable Gengar, I really don't see the big deal behind it.

I guess you could run Steel Wing on Talonflame for T-tar, I don't even know if it kills at +2 though.

 

[ss118]

You mean only Sucker Punch for hitting ghosts Khangaskhan is beaten by Sub Disable gengar.

Also it doesn't. I've tried.

http://www.twitch.tv/articanus/b/476514282 this is basically 4.5 hours of me and ultimario discussing pokemon X/Y with questions from the chat. You don't have to watch it but yeah had ~100 viewers just asking questions and it was fun ^_^

 

[Pink Reaper]

you guys are aware kangaskhan can unmega evolve right back into normal scrappy kangaskhan right?

 

[Wave⁂]

i thought you couldnt unmega?

 

[Pink Reaper]

I've done it in game?

Never attempted it on PS. Though it's not really worth it as i wasnt given the option to Re-Mega lol.

Edit: Things I just learned in the previous battle

-Mega TTar can survive an Adamant 252 Excadrill EQ. I lived with 36% health with 4/0 investment.
-Abilities that activate on switch in also apparently activate upon mega evolutions
-Garchomp can survive a +2 no item acrobatics from Talonflame pretty well
-Gyarados is god damn amazing

 

[Circa]

If you could re-mega, that would be ****ing awesome for a particular couple. RestTalk Gyarados would be kind of dumb with that, I feel.

Though, the ability to un-mega might actually hold merit for Gyarados anyway. Being able to Intimidate something new that has switched into you could prove to be a lot more useful than the Mold Breaker and stat buffs in certain situations.

 

[ss118]

You cannot unmega in any competitive match. You can do it in game by reviving a fainted pokemon, but then cannot remega it.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I unmega'd by hitting the "mega evolution" button when i was already mega'd

I also want a Mega Yanmega. A YanMega if you will.

 

[UltiMario]

Well, at least that feature buffs Mega Gyarados. You can undo your awful decision to Mega evolve.

 

[Wave⁂]

but you cant undo your decision to carry gyaradosite

 

[Pink Reaper]

I've been trying out other megas to see which ones work and which ones dont. Have been using Mega Scizor with a great deal of success. It's just legitimately better than non-mega scizor

Scizor@Scizorite
Adamant/Technician
252Atk/240Hp/16Spe
-Swords Dance
-Roost
-Bullet Punch
-Knock Off

Knock off's boost to 65 as well as doubling when you remove an item as well as steel no longer resisting dark makes it one of his best moves. Too bad it's not 60 base power so i could just OHKO with it all the time.

Edit: Just found out that +1 Knock Off OHKO's shield stance 252 HP Aegislash. That's cool.

 

[ss118]

If de mega evolving used to be possible, it is definitely NOT possible as of version 1.1 of pokemon X/Y. The icon underneath your moves is literally gone once you mega evolve after the patch.

Mega Scizor is good, yeah.

 

[choknater]

currently laddering as Here Boy!

team:
Arcanine
Granbull
Mightyena
Furfrou
Stoutland
Mega-Houndoom










yeah this needs no explanation

in this exploration of dog-man relationship i discovered

furfrou has godlike bulk

shoutouts to taking 12% from mamoswine's earthquake after one cotton guard

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Obviously someone needs to make an all cat team to beat you

 

[ss118]

ewwww no we'll go with the all dog team.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Do the male and female Meowstick have different enough movesets you could use them both?

I know there is a rule about not having the same pokemon, but what if the male and female were different enough?

 

[UltiMario]

Species Clause is by dex number.

It'd be illegal in all formats, even Wifi. You couldn't use both on one team in any PvP battle if you wanted to. Not to mention Male is the only good one thanks to Prankster.

Persian/Purugly/Liepard/Meowstic/Delcatty/Espeon obv