Pokemon Trainer vs. Mr. Game and Watch

[The Nameless Wanderer]

10 overused references.

With his Disjointed hitboxes, Amazing killing prowess, and sheer survivability due to "Bucket Braking", Hes sure to be a threat to all 3 pokemon. Opinions on matchup?

 

[Magik0722]

one of PTs worst matchups

best option is ivysuar


there really isnt any special techniques to beating him just use general strategy and know what out ranges up and learn his moveset

 

[MaTA]

Charizard

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[A2ZOMG]

Your best bet is to go Squirtle against him on FD, since he's the best at baiting. Air camp like a ***** and combo him whenever you can, and save that D-throw for killing him at liek 100% or something. Stay as close to him as possible since his close up options are slow.

Otherwise, you pretty much don't want to do this matchup at all. G&W edgeguards all three pokemon really hard, and has an easy time juggling them.

 

[Tien2500]

Get a secondar... Squirtles aerials are quicker but his are disjointed. On the plus side Squirt is quicker in the air so you can punish him if you can bait an aerial. Squirtle's ground game is way way faster so jabs will be useful here.

Killing options are Dthrow and Usmash but both can be hard to use on him. Try to hydrograb him to the end and Dthrow can KO him at reasonably low percentages. Usmash will also KO him at low percentages if you can hit him. If Squirtle is fresh then Fair may be viable too.

His best KO move is probably Dsmash which can be comboed I believe out of his Dthrow. His grab game isn't amazing so avoiding grabs shouldn't be too tough. Fsmash is powerful even on Squirtle. Usmash is very powerful but telegraphed. Watch out for it as a tech chase. Fair can kill at high percentages if fressh.

Slight advantage to G&W.

Ivy can't compete with G&W's airgame and can't really approach him. Best bet if you have to use Ivy is to stay back spam razor leaf and try your best to counter his approaches. If you find yourself in the air your best bet is Bair but I'm not 100% sure if it outranges his turtle. In any event it is faster.

Ivy is going to get KOed very early by his firebased Fsmash. Dsmash is also a major problem. The sweetspotted version sends you straight up but the nonsweetspotter knocks you almost straight to the sides where you can easily be edgehogged.

If you can hit with Fsmash it should do the job at around 100. Usmash obviously KOs well but is impractical. Uair can KO well and you may want to even give Fair a chance. If he's careless you also may find Vine whip to be effective. Bthrow isn't really powerful enough with bucket breaking till high percentages. Uthrow may work OK on smaller stages.

Heavy advantage to G&W.

Charizard's grab range is incredibly useful. If you're good at powershielding then you should be able to shield grab most of his moves if they're even slightly misspaced. Rocksmash still does quite a bit of damage but his somewhat harder to land than it is against other characters. On the bright side it still KOs very well. Flamethrower can be bucketed but its a weak bucketed attack. Plus G&W's bucket has a bit of lag so they may be reluctant about overusing it. I personally find that the plusses outweigh the con for flamethrower. Be careful about bair and nair. They will eat your shield if you don't powershield.

If G&W gets you in the air... . He can juggle you very well and there isn't a whole lot you can do. Try your best to get the the ground quick as you can.

Rocksmash KOs well. Usmash is the next best thing. Dtilt is useful. If you can hit Fsmash it kills him early. He should have some difficulty KOing you. Avoid getting grabbed so he can't Dsmash you. Usmash is easy to see coming. Watch out for Fairs offstage. Fsmash shouldn't really be hitting you.

I haven't had much trouble with it but I'd assume a good G&W would be able to do a ton of damage with a Dthrow techchase.

Moderate advantage to G&W.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

it is possible to gimp gaws recovery, try and force him to up b so as to land on the stage, and quickly get on the stage and grab him. if you grab him out of his up b and do nothing he dies, so try and get this off as often as possible, this goes for all characters but not many people try and go for it

 

[T-block]

I could be wrong, but I think tech roll -> jab with Squirtle will help a lot against the d-throw tech chase. GW has to predict you perfectly to get another grab off.

Ivysaur's b-air can outspace turtle, but the spacing is pretty unforgiving, and b-air does so little damage you're likely to take more damage than you give.

 

[Grey Belnades]

Charizard

At least in my experience, Charizard is the easiest one of the bunch. The best way to match up against G&W is Squirtle. Squirtle, with his bair, fair, and nair have the best way to counter against GW.

 

[Steeler]

imo use your best one because all three are slightly disadvantaged but have a little something that makes the matchup not absolutely terrible.

ivy has the best spacing and safe answers to GW, charizard does the most damage, is toughest to KO, and has the most KO options on GW, and squirtle can dance around GW very effectively.

ivy has to be incredibly patient and safe to win this. squirtle has to be incredibly patient and pick out his spots correctly. charizard has to be incredibly patient and zone with rock smash/flamethrower effectively.

you have to be incredibly patient but it's manageable. tough but manageable.

 

[Magik0722]

my idea of ivysuar being the best comes from actual matches that ive played
there is a decent GaW down here that i beat with ivysuar
and i have 3 stocked hyilian GaW with ivysuar alone

Spoiler

In a friendly if that matters

 

[A2ZOMG]

my idea of ivysuar being the best comes from actual matches that ive played
there is a decent GaW down here that i beat with ivysuar
and i have 3 stocked hyilian GaW with ivysuar alone

Spoiler

In a friendly if that matters

Lol like friendlies matter.

The only way you're actually killing G&W is with Squirtle. I'm dead serious. It's waaaay too difficult for the others to land a kill move on him if he's careful (or they could with their respective throws, but it takes longer for them to kill reliably with a throw). That's why Squirtle is the best option of the three.

Also there isn't much Charizard or Ivysaur can really do if he starts camping Chef and you're near the edge.

 

[Zigsta]

I usually go with Charizard once just to see how he does against each particular Game and Watch. I've gotten the best results overall from Squirtle, though. He just doesn't get juggled like Charizard does and can handle pressure better than Ivysaur. I definitely agree with Magik that this is one of our toughest matchups.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

squirtle is almost always the best one to use in every matchup, simply because his shear speed allows him to deal with other characters ****. I would start with squirtle, if you get the kill DO NOT CHANGE: ivysaur is absolutely atrocious in this matchup. I play against omegablackmage, one of the best gaw in the United States, and ivysaur is just too slow and too awkward to be able to do much of anything, once ivy is in the air he gets juggled by upairs, its just a painful matchup, ur better off trying to go with squirtle as long as you possibly can, and once you lose ur stock just try and get a grab or something to swith to charizard. If you do not get the kill first, just try and get urself in a position to swith to charizard. Seriously, ivysaur is pure crap in this matchup, its waaaay to easy with gaw to just jump up and down near ivy and just wait and punish, because all of ivy's moves are slow, awkward, and easy to deal with as game and watch.

 

[Magik0722]

hmm im begining to understand steeler saying just to use your best pokemon against GaW
itll seem like your best will be awesome in the matchup and the one you arent as good as would seem like the worst

 

[Steeler]

yep. that's why i would personally say use squirtle. lol.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

It seems that its finsihed then. The way to do it is to play very patiently with Charizard and Squirtle, and try to avoid Ivysaur unless your really good with her/him.

Its moderately in GW's favor.

Ness is discussing us. It seems we need to actually have a serious discssuion with them now. Posting the Matchup.

 

[Magik0722]

Ness is PTs easiest matchup by far

you shouldnt even lose a stock

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Just to chime in, I really REALLY disagree with Charizard doing the best, as some people have said. Charizard is hands down the easiest to destroy of the three, with Ivy actually running a close second. You'll have to play a tight game with Squirtle to pick up the slack, if you can, but do NOT aircamp like A2 suggested. You don't have the time to just dodge and wait for the absolute best times to attack with Stamina in the mix.

Squirtle>Ivy>Zard in this matchup, speaking as a main of G&W. While Zard *seems* good because he is Bulky with KO potential, he just really isn't against G&W. Squirtle would be more effective if it werent for stamina limiting his baiting game, and ultimately his ability to kill G&W.

You guys don't seem to care for a matchup ratio, so I'll just end this on the note that this matchup is really easy for us.

 

[Steeler]

mr. escalator should quit trolling

it's obvious that PT gives GW a run for his money

and then steals his money and uses it to buy a master ball

and then master balls GW

and then GW is doomed to suffer from stamina and auto switch....forever

 

[Magik0722]

what? what pokemart are you buying masterballs from?

 

[Steeler]

giovanni, he has more but he's only willing to give you one for free

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Game and Watch is a ****ty character. No one should lose to Game and Watch in Singles.

Squirtle does the best, then Ivysaur, then Charizard, I think.

Ivysaur and Charizard both have range on their side, but Ivysaur moves slowly and doesn't deal a lot of damage, while Charizard gets comboed easily. You shouldn't lose your Squirtle stock ever, though. Just don't be a ****ing ******.

 

[LuVr]

ok to clarify for the uninformed person above, G&W does not suck at all, trust me I main him... I also however main and compete with pkmn trainer... rofl.. its the truth ask anyone I play.... anyways...

you can beat a G&W with any of them, its all about reading your opponents playing habits, approach, etc. WATCH out for gimping, this seems to be especially deadly, minus charizard which has a decent priority with his up B... the thing is, the approaches tend to all be similar, which is approaching with a turtle attack... this is usually a very effective means of getting through and attacking you... however lets break it down into the different pokemon, using examples to show the different ways to counter approach:

Ivysaur (whom I ALWAYS start with):

- try using razor leaf to break aerial approaches, it usually works to stop it (they tend to cancel out), follow it with another razor leaf to set up for a possible down throw to u-air combo...
- use the rnage of ivysaurs f-air to your advantage, and rely on excellent spacing to hit him..
- when being approached by game and watch's aerial down a (the keyblade attack) try using the standard b move, just realize that timing is everything here, since most of g&w's moves have signifigantly less lag than other characters moves... this is where condifent prediction is key
- as for gimping... well thats tough, just try to time aerial dodging and possibly get gutsy enough to try aerial counter attacks (which tend to be fairly punishable)

Charizard:

- rock smash is a good move if used correctly... it technically a projectile, and can be used as a relatively good fallback move to stop G&W's approaches..
- f-air is decent for approach on a G&W, but it can be too aggressive and we all know how badly G&W can punish..
- this is the best pokemon to punish a G&W however, seeing as its very stron KO moveset gives you a perfect opportunity to punish if you know what you are doing... just be aware of bucket cancelling,, lolz
- gimping can be just as bad, but the recovery on charizard is better so you have a higher chance..

Squirtle (my least skilled of the 3)

- speed is matched to G&W's but the lack of priority can be a serious issue here coupled with his seemingly piss-poor recovery...
- so heres the thing, charge that lovely water gun attack and use it to slow a fast approaching G&W, this is what I tend to do often to help push back those annoying high priority attacks...
- when knocked off stage (above stage level) use the shell attack to get back on stage (IF YOU DARE)...
- a good squirtle knows how to use his aerials as well, so take advatnge of your speed and definitely slide onstage into a massive u-a attack for massive ko-ability


** game and watch is a light character, which means he can be fairly easy to KO, especially if the opponent doesnt bucket cancel, or cannot bucket cancel fast enough... also like I said, avoid his combos and aerials...

in terms of the best specific character to use... umm HELLO he is pkmn trainer the whole strategic point is to switch in and out, making decisive moves...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

ok to clarify for the uninformed person above, G&W does not suck at all, trust me I main him... I also however main and compete with pkmn trainer... rofl.. its the truth ask anyone I play.... anyways...

I will play you or any other Game and Watch player for any amount of money.

I actually made that bet at Genesis, and no one took it. Prior to that, Hylian money matched me with his Game and Watch, and I beat him soundly. Oh, yeah, there was also that scrub Motel Vacaville who basically gave me $10. That was cool, too.

I main Pokemon Trainer, and I've played a fair amount of Game and Watches in my time. He's too linear a character to be any sort of threat to most characters in Singles.

 

[Le_THieN]

Reflex altering the course of match-up history? HOLLA

 

[Steeler]

reflex is matchup history

 

[Le_THieN]

People just need to be more open-minded to the idea of change. It's a really interesting time in the Brawl meta-game right now, just because so many match-ups are shifting ever so slightly at a mercurial rate. Low tier characters like PT especially need to be closely observed, because I think many of Brawl's established status quo match-ups are in for some major revisions.

Match-ups are simply educated opinions determined by a group of (hopefully) intelligent players; what people tend to forget is that these are things that are meant to change over time. It's still somewhat shocking to me that people still get all flustered at the notion of a mildly bad match-up becoming a marginally good one, especially if it's proposed by someone in the minority.

Myself, I'd love to see a competent PT main soundly massacre a G&W. =)

 

[Miles.]

(Might have been a JV 2)
I watched Reflex 2 stock Hylian with PT.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

(Might have been a JV 2)
I watched Reflex 2 stock Hylian with PT.

Vids or it didnt happen......
lol joke
i wanna see it!!!!

 

[Zigsta]

I'd also love to see some footage of Reflex tearing up a Game and Watch. And also...LOL @ anyone calling Reflex "uninformed."

 

[Tien2500]

I'd also love to see some footage of Reflex tearing up a Game and Watch. And also...LOL @ anyone calling Reflex "uninformed."

I wouldn't call Reflex uninformed but his posts in this topic certainly leave a lot to be desired in detail.

 

[Hylian]

Reflex beat my GW 2-1 but it was pretty soundly. He is a beast.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Game and Watch is a ****ty character. No one should lose to Game and Watch in Singles.

I'd like you to say that again after I point out that Valdens and Leepuff both placed higher than you in Singles at Genesis.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'd like you to say that again after I point out that Valdens and Leepuff both placed higher than you in Singles at Genesis.

Game and Watch is a ****ty character. No one should lose to Game and Watch in Singles.

 

[Toby.]

That set brought tears of joy to my eyes.

and lol reflex.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

LOOK

LET'S

TALK ABOUT IT

Game and Watch is considered a "good" character because the properties of his moves are nice. His moves are either quick with great range or fast and obscenely powerful (outside of, like, his F-Air, which is both).

All of G&W's KO moves (once again, outside of F-Air) are incredibly linear. They're fast and powerful, but they're all in similar positions. Just don't go out of your way to hang out immediately next to him, and you're not going to die easily.

Once you get past that, you only have to worry about a handful of moves.

D-Tilt is stupid and will keep him safe through almost anything, but it only does 6%, so don't be intimidated.

D-Air easy to see coming if you take note of the fact that HE'S DIRECTLY ABOVE YOU, which is almost always a bad position in this game. Shield -> punish it--you'll be okay.

N-Air is dumb, so don't be very aggressive at the edge unless you have to. Make sure you're not directly above G&W without good reason, because you'll eat 17% every time from this.

B-Air isn't that great--Smash DI up and over it if you're in the process of getting hit. If they B-Air early in a shorthop, you can punish after the fifth hit of the turtle, so long as they're not close to landing.

F-Air is somewhat scary, but if they shorthop it and miss, they're ****ed. Just watch out for it at higher percentages, mostly--he has better options otherwise.

Up-B is a move with invincibility. Any time a G&W player leaves him(/her)self open, they'll do this. Puts you back at square one. Don't try to edgeguard unless you know you can do something about it.

G&W's grab isn't very good, but make sure you tech the D-Throw if he gets one. 33% chance isn't very good--you'll be alright.

OKAY--Now, we've covered everything you will ever see a G&W player use. If he's doing anything else, he's foregoing a better option.

I'm already bored--I'll start talking about the matchup in a little bit.

 

[MaTA]

yeah what reflex said and just space the crap out of him

 

[Bestiarius]

Out of curiosity, why do these new individual matchup threads keep popping up instead of going in the old one? At least we should make a new stckied universal matchup thread, if the info in the old one's too outdated. Right?

 

[Retro Gaming]

Out of curiosity, why do these new individual matchup threads keep popping up instead of going in the old one? At least we should make a new stckied universal matchup thread, if the info in the old one's too outdated. Right?

I agree with this, but I'm allowing them to stay because people can clearly see that it's a "new round" of discussion. I mean, I guess if Steeler edited the first post of those then it would accomplish the same thing, but we didn't even finish the "first round" so..?

Also, I have a cool thread merge gadget that'll make it seem like two different discussions in the same thread. I can merge them if they ever start to become too cluttering.