Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon Released! Discuss here!

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Crabrawler does feel pretty awkward to not be part Water-type. Then again, we have a Pokemon like Hippopotas, who's a Ground-type, and is based on the hippopotamus.

As for Water Compaction, it might not work out as well as you might think if Sandygast and Palossand have poor physical defenses; they are weak against Water-type attacks after all. And of course, Water Compaction doesn't do anything for the special defense stat.

At least with Justified, most Pokemon with the Justified ability are resistant to Dark-type attacks.

It depends on the format. VGC format? Im inclined to agree that entry hazard control (and entry hazards themselves) are a waste of time. Singles battles however I strongly disagree. If Stealth Rock did not exist I might agree with you but when any Pokemon weak to Rock loses 1/4 of their HP (1/2 if doubly weak!) then Rapid Spin is always worth considering, and any competitive team worth its salt that's not Hyper offensive will have some form of hazard removal or mitigation.

Defog gives it a lot of competition now with arguably better distribution but I'm still a big fan of Rapid Spin for not removing your own entry hazards in the process.

Other workarounds can probably include Magic Guard, which prevents all indirect damage. Sadly, the only Magic Guard user who's weak against Rock-type attacks is Sigilyph, and it really struggles to compete with most other Psychic-types.

 

[Professor Lexicovermis]

Whoa, I can make a Punch-Out themed team now!

Little Mac - Crabrawler
Bear Hugger - Bewear
Mr. Sandman - Palossand
Mad Clown - Popplio
Masked Muscle - Hawlucha
King Hippo - Hippowdon

That said, really liking Crabrawler! The black eye is a nice touch, he really looks punch-drunk. Sandyghast is kind of an unwieldy name, why not Sandoom? Anyway, it looks even better in motion. Palossand is still probably one of my favorite Ghost types we've had lately, other than Mimikyu of course! Stufful looks so much better in 3D. I seriously thought it was just a head and legs in the art. Curious to see the lore behind the tag. Turtonator is kinda weird, but I like it! Naming mine TurboMan! Keep the news flowing, GF!

 

[DJ3DS]

Crabrawler does feel pretty awkward to not be part Water-type. Then again, we have a Pokemon like Hippopotas, who's a Ground-type, and is based on the hippopotamus.

As for Water Compaction, it might not work out as well as you might think if Sandygast and Palossand have poor physical defenses; they are weak against Water-type attacks after all. And of course, Water Compaction doesn't do anything for the special defense stat.

At least with Justified, most Pokemon with the Justified ability are resistant to Dark-type attacks.



Other workarounds can probably include Magic Guard, which prevents all indirect damage. Sadly, the only Magic Guard user who's weak against Rock-type attacks is Sigilyph, and it really struggles to compete with most other Psychic-types.

Magic Guard is incredible. It is unfortunately limited in distribution but given how strong the ability is it's probably a good thing.

And yeah, the defense raising aspect of Water Compaction is nice flavour but is likely going to have very little impact - beyond weak Scalds from defensive waters it's highly unlikely this thing is surviving the 2HKO from something with Water attacks anyway. Had it worked like Storm Drain we would have had a much more interesting Pokemon with 4 Immunities that could give Jellicent competition for a spin blocker that doesn't care about water types.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

A top comment on the youtube video for the trailer says the Crabrawler is based on a coconut crab, which can't swim, hence why it isn't a water type.

 

[Z25]

A top comment on the youtube video for the trailer says the Crabrawler is based on a coconut crab, which can't swim, hence why it isn't a water type.

That doesn't make much sense. This is a coconut crab:

Spoiler

I don't see a resemblance there. It might still be, but I don't know if that's likely. Looking up different crab types, I can't find one that really matches. It's hard to say then what it's base is.

EDIT: There is a boxing crab:
http://bio390parasitology.blogspot.com/2011/04/three-cheers-for-pom-pom-crabs.html

Also known as the pom pom crab. So perhaps it's loosely based on this?

 

[Deleted member]

So Crabrawler, Sandygast, Palossand, and Stufful They look cool already like Bewear too so pretty neat.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And yeah, the defense raising aspect of Water Compaction is nice flavour but is likely going to have very little impact - beyond weak Scalds from defensive waters it's highly unlikely this thing is surviving the 2HKO from something with Water attacks anyway. Had it worked like Storm Drain we would have had a much more interesting Pokemon with 4 Immunities that could give Jellicent competition for a spin blocker that doesn't care about water types.

Yeah, even Stamina works out better, as Mudbray and Mudsdale can simply take a neutral damage physical attack, and their defense would get a small boost. In fact, in a double/triple battle, you could try using Rock Blast on Mudsdale, as it'll not only be resistant to the damage, but for each hit, its defense will increase, making it a bit tougher for the physical sweepers to take down if they don't have Unaware, score any critical hits, or use an attack that ignores a target's stat changes.

 

[DJ3DS]

Yeah, even Stamina works out better, as Mudbray and Mudsdale can simply take a neutral damage physical attack, and their defense would get a small boost. In fact, in a double/triple battle, you could try using Rock Blast on Mudsdale, as it'll not only be resistant to the damage, but for each hit, its defense will increase, making it a bit tougher for the physical sweepers to take down if they don't have Unaware, score any critical hits, or use an attack that ignores a target's stat changes.

I hadn't considered that tactic but it's a pretty scary thought.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I hadn't considered that tactic but it's a pretty scary thought.

It's not too different from using Beat Up on a teammate with the Justified ability. However, without Skill Link, you'd have to get very lucky with Rock Blast hitting Mudsdale 5 times (which would activate Stamina 5 times), and that's assuming that the attack hits.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

On serebii they mentioned the idea that since rockruffs evo could be a werewolf he could have different forms depending on the time. Like he's a monster at night

 

[Delzethin]

Speaking of Rockruff, actually, I've been putting together theories about what they have planned for the line. You can check out the culmination here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/4ytscy/rockruff_lore_evo_theory_part_3_coming_of_age/

(Quick warning: several leaks get discussed, and one of them is a major factor.)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'll never understand why Rockruff was made to be so mysterious with its evolution.

 

[DJ3DS]

I'll never understand why Rockruff was made to be so mysterious with its evolution.

Perhaps GF want a new Pokemon to catch on like Eevee did.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Perhaps GF want a new Pokemon to catch on like Eevee did.

Still, it kind of feels like a Magikarp and Gyarados dilemma. Magikarp is normally peaceful, and yet Gyarados is very violent.

Rockruff's entry states that it starts out being gentle, but it becomes more rough and feral as it draws closer to evolution. Something kind of tells me that its evolution will be so feral and violent that the trainer needs to be careful while raising it, or else it could do serious harm to others (maybe even to its trainer).

 

[Aetheri]

Still, it kind of feels like a Magikarp and Gyarados dilemma. Magikarp is normally peaceful, and yet Gyarados is very violent.

Rockruff's entry states that it starts out being gentle, but it becomes more rough and feral as it draws closer to evolution. Something kind of tells me that its evolution will be so feral and violent that the trainer needs to be careful while raising it, or else it could do serious harm to others (maybe even to its trainer).

Useless more than peaceful but I get what you're saying...

The feral nature it gets definitely points towards something akin to a werewolf transformation though...

I'm still fixated on it's connection with the starters their representation of alchemic symbols for various important materials...Rockruff is supposedly Lead, which is used in the purification of to Gold in alchemy...A Golden Wolf evolution could still be a possibility...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Useless more than peaceful but I get what you're saying...

The feral nature it gets definitely points towards something akin to a werewolf transformation though...

I'm still fixated on it's connection with the starters their representation of alchemic symbols for various important materials...Rockruff is supposedly Lead, which is used in the purification of to Gold in alchemy...A Golden Wolf evolution could still be a possibility...

I dunno if the alchemic thing is real

I mean, their final evolutions don't really seem to have anything to do with alchemy

A wrestler, an archer, a mermaid

It might have just been coincidence

 

[Murlough]

Rockruff seems like the new Riolu/Zorua line.

I hope it doesn't become ugly.

 

[Aetheri]

I dunno if the alchemic thing is real

I mean, their final evolutions don't really seem to have anything to do with alchemy

A wrestler, an archer, a mermaid

It might have just been coincidence

Well the starters and Rockruff do share a secret and the references to the alchemic symbols don't seem coincidental...however it is possible they are nothing more than just references...

We'll have to wait and see...at least till next month...

 

[Deleted member]

I've always enjoyed mythological tales and lore werewolves are creatures of myth that I find really cool and appealing. If Rockruff is some kind of violent feral werewolf it'll look badass and have good stats I hope. I look forward to finding out.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I notice the days half over and no rainbow greninja has been announced yet

Is that one rumor confirmed fake?

 

[Fluttershy]

I notice the days half over and no rainbow greninja has been announced yet

Is that one rumor confirmed fake?

Iirc someone here said that the person who originally posted the leak confirmed that it's fake.

 

[L9999]

Speaking of Greninja, what was the point of Ash Greninja? Being the deux ex machina of Ash losing the league again? (not a spoiler anymore).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Speaking of Greninja, what was the point of Ash Greninja? Being the deux ex machina of Ash losing the league again? (not a spoiler anymore).

To make an awesome pokemon look ugly

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Ash Greninja ordeal may play an important role in the Zygarde dilemma, though it'll be quite a while until North America starts airing the Kalos League episodes.

 

[Erureido]

It's already confirmed that Ash Greninja will play a big role again in the upcoming Team Flare arc. Part of the preview for the arc showed Ash Greninja cutting up vines with its Cut attack, and we even know Ash is going to fight Lysandre and his Mega Gyarados at one point. There's even the possibility that Ash and Alain will fight again because of Alain's Team Flare ties, and it's possible Ash might get his revenge there with another Ash Greninja vs Mega Charizard. I'm also pretty sure Ash Greninja will be used against Lysandre's Mega Gyarados.

Something tells me it could still appear in Sun and Moon. Maybe Greninja will have access to an exclusive Z-move, the Giant Water Shuriken, and when it uses that move, it could turn into Ash Greninja. That's just my guess how it could be implemented into the new games.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I kind of think that much like with his past region adventures, Ash will start his Alola journey with just his Pikachu. Serena would continue traveling with Ash, but still keep her current party (Braixen, Pancham, Sylveon).

I can probably see Ash acquiring the following Alola Pokemon...

Rowlet
Mudbray
Wishiwashi

As for Serena...

Popplio
Comfey
Oricorio

I even thought about if Cilan returned to join Ash and Serena in their journey. Along with his Pansage, Crustle, and Stunfisk, Cilan's Alola Pokemon could be...

Litten
Yungoos
Stufful

 

[Aetheri]

I kind of think that much like with his past region adventures, Ash will start his Alola journey with just his Pikachu. Serena would continue traveling with Ash, but still keep her current party (Braixen, Pancham, Sylveon).

I can probably see Ash acquiring the following Alola Pokemon...

Rowlet
Mudbray
Wishiwashi

As for Serena...

Popplio
Comfey
Oricorio

I even thought about if Cilan returned to join Ash and Serena in their journey. Along with his Pansage, Crustle, and Stunfisk, Cilan's Alola Pokemon could be...

Litten
Yungoos
Stufful

Ash almost always acquires the regional bird as his first pokemon after getting his starter...(believe in Johto he captured Heracross before his shiny Noctowl)...he most likely will obtain Pikipek when he goes to Alola...

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Ash almost always acquires the regional bird as his first pokemon after getting his starter...(believe in Johto he captured Heracross before his shiny Noctowl)...he most likely will obtain Pikipek when he goes to Alola...

I think he left Pikipek out because Rowlet is Flying type... however, Ash had three Flying types in Kalos, so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think he left Pikipek out because Rowlet is Flying type... however, Ash had three Flying types in Kalos, so that shouldn't be a problem.

There's also Staraptor and Gliscor during the Sinnoh region adventures. I simply left out Pikipek, because Rowlet would already cover the typical Flying-type trend that Ash has. When you think it over though, a lot of Ash's first regional Flying-type Pokemon are Normal/Flying-types; only Fletchling breaks that trend, as while it is a Normal/Flying-type, its evolutions are Fire/Flying-types.

 

[Fluttershy]

So is next month's Corocoro the next information reveal? I haven't seen anything on Serebii about any new information coming up except this Japanese clip of throwing one of the Pokemon back into the ocean..

 

[Delzethin]

I'll never understand why Rockruff was made to be so mysterious with its evolution.

They're probably playing it up because they think they've struck gold with its evolution. Something that'll instantly become a fan favorite.

Perhaps GF want a new Pokemon to catch on like Eevee did.

...But not quite like that. The "new Eevee" talk is piggybacking off the now-busted rumor from last week.

Still, it kind of feels like a Magikarp and Gyarados dilemma. Magikarp is normally peaceful, and yet Gyarados is very violent.

Rockruff's entry states that it starts out being gentle, but it becomes more rough and feral as it draws closer to evolution. Something kind of tells me that its evolution will be so feral and violent that the trainer needs to be careful while raising it, or else it could do serious harm to others (maybe even to its trainer).

I've always enjoyed mythological tales and lore werewolves are creatures of myth that I find really cool and appealing. If Rockruff is some kind of violent feral werewolf it'll look badass and have good stats I hope. I look forward to finding out.

Nor that, either. Rockruff are said to act wilder and howl more when they're close to evolving, but there's nothing saying they become more violent. In fact, after they evolve they willingly return to their companions, meaning a sense of loyalty is still there.

Rockruff seems like the new Riolu/Zorua line.

That is where I think they're going with this. They're setting up Rockruff's evolution to be Gen 7's Lucario.

They tried capturing lightning in a bottle again with Zoroark, but revealing it too early and promoting it a little too hard led to them slipping up. Now they're slowly building up to this one and letting the hype grow naturally.

 

[DJ3DS]

That is where I think they're going with this. They're setting up Rockruff's evolution to be Gen 7's Lucario.

They tried capturing lightning in a bottle again with Zoroark, but revealing it too early and promoting it a little too hard led to them slipping up. Now they're slowly building up to this one and letting the hype grow naturally.

I don't think GF slipped up with an early reveal or too hard promotion with Zoroark - if anything, the opposite. It never got the exposure Lucario got from e.g. Smash, Mystery Dungeon, and Mega Evolution later on. Add this to the fact it's never been as popular in games (because it's not that good) and it was never going to do it.

GF did learn from their mistakes though, and got another Lucario in Gen VI with Greninja - though I'm not sure it was planned. A fortuitous combination of the Pokemon turning out to be excellent in-game, being chosen for Sm4sh and getting such heavy anime exposure did the job.

 

[Murlough]

I don't think GF slipped up with an early reveal or too hard promotion with Zoroark - if anything, the opposite. It never got the exposure Lucario got from e.g. Smash, Mystery Dungeon, and Mega Evolution later on. Add this to the fact it's never been as popular in games (because it's not that good) and it was never going to do it.

GF did learn from their mistakes though, and got another Lucario in Gen VI with Greninja - though I'm not sure it was planned. A fortuitous combination of the Pokemon turning out to be excellent in-game, being chosen for Sm4sh and getting such heavy anime exposure did the job.

It also probably yad something to do with not being horribly ugly like the other two starters. Chesnaut grew on me but Greninja is definately the best design wise. (The tongue scarf is still odd but w/e)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't think GF slipped up with an early reveal or too hard promotion with Zoroark - if anything, the opposite. It never got the exposure Lucario got from e.g. Smash, Mystery Dungeon, and Mega Evolution later on. Add this to the fact it's never been as popular in games (because it's not that good) and it was never going to do it.

GF did learn from their mistakes though, and got another Lucario in Gen VI with Greninja - though I'm not sure it was planned. A fortuitous combination of the Pokemon turning out to be excellent in-game, being chosen for Sm4sh and getting such heavy anime exposure did the job.

The funny thing is, you could potentially fool your opponents with Zoroark's Illusion ability. Of course, if it disguises itself as a Pokemon who has an ability that activates immediately whenever it enters into battle, your opponent will know that he/she is not dealing with the real thing.

For an example, having Zoroark disguise itself as a Groudon seems neat in theory, but since Groudon's ability is always Drought, your opponent will know right away that the Groudon that he/she is facing is actually an illusion if Sunny Day does not activate.

Now, in regards to Greninja, while it has received some attention with its appearance in Smash 3DS / Wii U, along with the currently anime exclusive Ash Greninja form, it seems very strange that it got excluded from Pokken Tournament.

 

[Murlough]

The funny thing is, you could potentially fool your opponents with Zoroark's Illusion ability. Of course, if it disguises itself as a Pokemon who has an ability that activates immediately whenever it enters into battle, your opponent will know that he/she is not dealing with the real thing.

For an example, having Zoroark disguise itself as a Groudon seems neat in theory, but since Groudon's ability is always Drought, your opponent will know right away that the Groudon that he/she is facing is actually an illusion if Sunny Day does not activate.

That is one of the reasons it stinks. Another reason is that the opponent will almost always know that you have a Zoroark on your team. (Unless there is a format I am unaware of). This lets the opponent know that they should be careful.

Another issue is that getting hit means Zoroark loses its illusion. So find an opportunity for switching in is a pain...unless its a psychic type hit but then the opponent will find out your mon is Zoroark (negating its usefulness completely).

The mon is designed for surprise attacks but inevitably fails if the opponent knows how to deal with it.

It sure was great destroying the idiot elite four member in gen 5. If it doesn't work the first, second, or twelth time you may want to not use the same type of attack....just maybe.

 

[DJ3DS]

The funny thing is, you could potentially fool your opponents with Zoroark's Illusion ability. Of course, if it disguises itself as a Pokemon who has an ability that activates immediately whenever it enters into battle, your opponent will know that he/she is not dealing with the real thing.

For an example, having Zoroark disguise itself as a Groudon seems neat in theory, but since Groudon's ability is always Drought, your opponent will know right away that the Groudon that he/she is facing is actually an illusion if Sunny Day does not activate.

Now, in regards to Greninja, while it has received some attention with its appearance in Smash 3DS / Wii U, along with the currently anime exclusive Ash Greninja form, it seems very strange that it got excluded from Pokken Tournament.

Illusion is a bad gimmick whose effectiveness is completely neutered by Team Preview. It's also hurt badly by the prevalence of U-Turn and Volt Switch.

Also why would you try disguise it as a Groudon? They have poor type synergy and any of the special attacks you'd throw out at Groudon would easily wreck Zoroark as well.

Back in my day you'd always disguise it as a Gengar because the two perfectly cover each others weaknesses so that the surprise was useful.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Also why would you try disguise it as a Groudon? They have poor type synergy and any of the special attacks you'd throw out at Groudon would easily wreck Zoroark as well.

All that I'm saying is that you don't want Zoroark to be disguising itself as a Pokemon with an ability that immediately activates upon entry (such as Intimidate, Frisk, Unnerve, Mold Breaker, and Pressure). That's a big giveaway that the opponent is dealing with an illusion.

If Zoroark is disguised as a Gyarados, that could work for a while, since Gyarados does get the Moxie ability (which only activates whenever Gyarados KOs an opponent), and it can learn Flamethrower and Dark Pulse. However, seeing a Gyarados use special attacks is pretty much a big giveaway that it's an illusion, since all competitive Gyarados are physical attackers.

 

[Fluttershy]

Illusion is a bad gimmick whose effectiveness is completely neutered by Team Preview. It's also hurt badly by the prevalence of U-Turn and Volt Switch.

Also why would you try disguise it as a Groudon? They have poor type synergy and any of the special attacks you'd throw out at Groudon would easily wreck Zoroark as well.

Back in my day you'd always disguise it as a Gengar because the two perfectly cover each others weaknesses so that the surprise was useful.

It can still be useful even with the team preview because they still need to figure out who is real and who is using an illusion.. if you play your cards right they will still be fooled because you can't assume that every Pokemon they sent out is actually Zoroark. Uturn and volt switch will only work if they aren't weak enough to be Killed or if Zoroark has a substitute to take the damage since it won't break the illusion (depending on the Pokemon you're using with the illusion you may or may not want to be using those two moves anyway). Stealth rock can be a big give away.

 

[DJ3DS]

It can still be useful even with the team preview because they still need to figure out who is real and who is using an illusion.. if you play your cards right they will still be fooled because you can't assume that every Pokemon they sent out is actually Zoroark. Uturn and volt switch will only work if they aren't weak enough to be Killed or if Zoroark has a substitute to take the damage since it won't break the illusion (depending on the Pokemon you're using with the illusion you may or may not want to be using those two moves anyway). Stealth rock can be a big give away.

Both of those moves cause direct damage and will break the Illusion; U-Turn will probably OHKO. Volt Turn cores are incredibly common and the usual suspects (Rotom-W, Landorus-T) don't really care about Zoroark's coverage.

The ability is too niche. For Impostor to work, you need to choose a Pokemon with good type synergy with Zoroark - preferably no shared weaknesses, no giveaway differences in resistances or immunities (to entry hazards, as you said), and you need to get Zoroark onto the field without sustaining damage. The list of Pokemon it really forms a good pair with is sufficiently small and the opportunities it has to come in are sufficiently few that it's usually obvious who Zoroark is masquerading as.

Beyond this, Zoroark doesn't have a reliable method of boosting its speed and gets OHKOed by a light breeze so even if you do fool the opponent Zoroark is incredibly easy to deal with.

As I said, it's a gimmick and there's so little consistent reward from it you'd be better off giving the slot to something else.

 

[Fluttershy]

Both of those moves cause direct damage and will break the Illusion; U-Turn will probably OHKO. Volt Turn cores are incredibly common and the usual suspects (Rotom-W, Landorus-T) don't really care about Zoroark's coverage.

The ability is too niche. For Impostor to work, you need to choose a Pokemon with good type synergy with Zoroark - preferably no shared weaknesses, no giveaway differences in resistances or immunities (to entry hazards, as you said), and you need to get Zoroark onto the field without sustaining damage. The list of Pokemon it really forms a good pair with is sufficiently small and the opportunities it has to come in are sufficiently few that it's usually obvious who Zoroark is masquerading as.

Beyond this, Zoroark doesn't have a reliable method of boosting its speed and gets OHKOed by a light breeze so even if you do fool the opponent Zoroark is incredibly easy to deal with.

As I said, it's a gimmick and there's so little consistent reward from it you'd be better off giving the slot to something else.

Illusion not imposter.
It still won't break it through a substitute unless it goes through the substitute.. (wasn't sure if the first part was for this or not )
You also can't give zoroark night Daze because it's the only Pokemon that can get it (not including the Sketcher). It is Gimmicky but under the right circumstances which most players are probably not going to take the time on it could work but it's just hard to setup if there's no screens up and there are better Pokemon to use with better bulk (the surprise factor of it could catch them off guard if pulled correctly though..)