Pokedex Entry 11: Ike

[Guilhe]

I don’t know how so much Ike players weren’t capable to prove Ike’s advantage over PT, especially against Ivysaur. This matchup is very similar to Ike versus Luigi (which is at disadvantage against Ike in the matchup chart): Luigi has a projectile just as bad as Ivy’s, making him conclusively a close quarter combatant. It’s not like spamming his projectile will get him anywhere (and he’ll get punished if using it too close), he’s projectile is just a tool for pressuring. Of course Ike will have to take the initiative in order to pass through it, but it is not like he’ll destroy his spacing while doing so. In fact, Ivy will be the one trying to approach him because if he’ll be outraged if he doesn’t do so.

Like Luigi, Ivysaur has fast moves that quickly build damage. But Ike has faster ground movement, horizontal air movement and falls faster. This makes Ike’s aerial attacks much harder to pass through.
Both characters grabs haven’t much going for them. But Ike can use his grab in order to throw Ivysaur in the air, where he can attempt an aerial attack and fast fall safely, or use it to throw Ivysaur out of the stage and spike him with Dair or hit him with Fair. In both cases Ike has a free attempt to land a powerful blow and not being punished.

As for KO and gimping, I’ve seen someone post that knocking Ike out of Aether could be done easily by using a ledge hopped Bair. I’ve never been gimped that way though many tried, the SA frames always became active before they could hit me. But well, it is possible… Probably you’ll get Aether spike’d though.

Charizard is harder in my opinion; he has faster horizontal aerial movement and that flamethrower. That combination really messes with Ike’s approach. Also, he’s heavy, can recover from afar and his upB has SA frames.

A final note over this matchup:
Ike’s KO power > Ivy’s KO power
Ike’s gimping power =<Ivy’ gimping power
Luigi >=Ivysaur
(Go Luigi!)

 

[Onxy]

I don’t know how so much Ike players weren’t capable of prove Ike’s advantage over PT, especially against Ivysaur. This matchup is very similar to Ike versus Luigi (which is at disadvantage against Ike in the matchup chart): He has a projectile just as bad as Ivy’s, making him conclusively a close quarter combatant. It’s not like spamming his projectile will get him anywhere (and he’ll get punished if using it too close), he’s projectile is just a tool for pressuring. Of course Ike will have to take the initiative in order to pass through it, but it is not like he’ll destroy his spacing while doing so. In fact, Ivy will be the one trying to approach him because if he’ll be outraged if he doesn’t do so.

Like Luigi, Ivysaur has faster moves that quickly build damage. But Ike has faster ground movement, horizontal air movement and falls faster. This makes Ike’s aerial attacks much harder to pass through.
Both characters grabs haven’t much going for them. But Ike can use his grab in order to throw Ivysaur in the air, where he can attempt an aerial attack and fast fall safely, or use it to throw Ivysaur out of the stage and spike him with Dair or hit him with Fair. In both cases Ike has a free attempt to land a powerful blow and not being punished.

As for KO and gimping, I’ve seen someone post that knocking Ike out of Aether could be done easily by using a ledge hopped Bair. I’ve never been gimped that way though many tried, as the SA frames always became active before they could hit me. But well, it is possible… Probably you’ll get Aether spike’d though.

Charizard is harder in my opinion; he has faster horizontal aerial movement and that flamethrower. That combination really messes with Ike’s approach. Also, he’s heavy, can recover from afar and his upB has SA frames.

A final note over this matchup:
Ike’s KO power > Ivy’s KO power
Ike’s gimping power =<Ivy’ gimping power
Luigi >=Ivysaur
(Go Luigi!)

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Yeah I like cake too!

 

[Steeler]

Guilhe, have you ever played a good Ivysaur? Or even a good Pokemon Trainer?

 

[Guilhe]

Guilhe, have you ever played a good Ivysaur? Or even a good Pokemon Trainer?

Maybe. Would you please comment over the points I've presented?

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Yeah I like cake too!

And I, by the other hand, like posting random stuff in order to increase my post count.

 

[Miles.]

I don’t know how so much Ike players weren’t capable to prove Ike’s advantage over PT, especially against Ivysaur. This matchup is very similar to Ike versus Luigi (which is at disadvantage against Ike in the matchup chart): Luigi has a projectile just as bad as Ivy’s, making him conclusively a close quarter combatant. It’s not like spamming his projectile will get him anywhere (and he’ll get punished if using it too close), he’s projectile is just a tool for pressuring. Of course Ike will have to take the initiative in order to pass through it, but it is not like he’ll destroy his spacing while doing so. In fact, Ivy will be the one trying to approach him because if he’ll be outraged if he doesn’t do so.

Like Luigi, Ivysaur has fast moves that quickly build damage. But Ike has faster ground movement, horizontal air movement and falls faster. This makes Ike’s aerial attacks much harder to pass through.
Both characters grabs haven’t much going for them. But Ike can use his grab in order to throw Ivysaur in the air, where he can attempt an aerial attack and fast fall safely, or use it to throw Ivysaur out of the stage and spike him with Dair or hit him with Fair. In both cases Ike has a free attempt to land a powerful blow and not being punished.

As for KO and gimping, I’ve seen someone post that knocking Ike out of Aether could be done easily by using a ledge hopped Bair. I’ve never been gimped that way though many tried, the SA frames always became active before they could hit me. But well, it is possible… Probably you’ll get Aether spike’d though.

Charizard is harder in my opinion; he has faster horizontal aerial movement and that flamethrower. That combination really messes with Ike’s approach. Also, he’s heavy, can recover from afar and his upB has SA frames.

A final note over this matchup:
Ike’s KO power > Ivy’s KO power
Ike’s gimping power =<Ivy’ gimping power
Luigi >=Ivysaur
(Go Luigi!)

Ivys Leaf is a million times better than luigis fireball.

 

[Steeler]

I don’t know how so much Ike players weren’t capable to prove Ike’s advantage over PT, especially against Ivysaur.

maybe it's because pt and ivysaur have the advantage over ike.

This matchup is very similar to Ike versus Luigi (which is at disadvantage against Ike in the matchup chart): Luigi has a projectile just as bad as Ivy’s, making him conclusively a close quarter combatant.

this is a horrible, horrible comparison. they play nothing alike. luigi = squirtle is a much better analogy.

It’s not like spamming his projectile will get him anywhere (and he’ll get punished if using it too close), he’s projectile is just a tool for pressuring.

so the projectile isn't going to help, yet it'll pressure ike and make him take the initiative? which is exactly what ivysaur wants?

Of course Ike will have to take the initiative in order to pass through it, but it is not like he’ll destroy his spacing while doing so. In fact, Ivy will be the one trying to approach him because if he’ll be outraged if he doesn’t do so.

razor leaf gets ike into a position where ivysaur can more easily counter with an attack like ftilt on the ground, vine whip which goes through ike's attacks, or more commonly bair, which outranges ike's fair. ivysaur doesn't mind ike's fair that much.

Like Luigi, Ivysaur has fast moves that quickly build damage. But Ike has faster ground movement, horizontal air movement and falls faster. This makes Ike’s aerial attacks much harder to pass through.

again bad luigi comparison.

ivysaur is actually faster on the ground, excluding quick draw, which is pretty bad against ivy anyway since it has a projectile. funny to note is that ike and squirtle have the exact same dash speed, although squirtle's shellshifting makes him much more mobile.

the horizontal movement and fall speed do help ike space, but ivysaur can still get around it with a shield canceled dash, or simply predicting ike's attack and hitting him first with vine whip or bair.

one thing you omit is that most of ike's attacks, including his main spacer, fair, leave him incredibly vulnerable if the opponent spotdodges/rolls/perfect shields/hits him first with something quicker. and the predictability and startup lag of a lot of his attacks just compound the problem.

Both characters grabs haven’t much going for them. But Ike can use his grab in order to throw Ivysaur in the air, where he can attempt an aerial attack and fast fall safely, or use it to throw Ivysaur out of the stage and spike him with Dair or hit him with Fair. In both cases Ike has a free attempt to land a powerful blow and not being punished.

yucky ivy luigi argument

so ike can use his grab to do something everyone can do: throw the opponent in the air. the thing is that ike's chase game isn't very good at all. most good players will be able to air dodge a fair or dair.

ivysaur can do the same thing to ike. not to mention that ivysaur's grab is much better than ike's. in fact, all three pokemon (yes even squirtle) have a greater grab range than ike does.

As for KO and gimping, I’ve seen someone post that knocking Ike out of Aether could be done easily by using a ledge hopped Bair. I’ve never been gimped that way though many tried, the SA frames always became active before they could hit me. But well, it is possible… Probably you’ll get Aether spike’d though.

i guess it's possible, but i wouldn't risk it. the intention should be to bair ike before he can use aether, so he just has to air dodge or try to counterattack (again, ivy's bair has more range) and risk being in a bad position to recover. once ike aethers, ivy just tetherhogs the edge.

in fact, if ike is forced into using aether, ivy could just jump off stage beforehand and tether as ike makes his ascent. snap onto the ledge when ike descends so ivy doesn't get spiked. i'm not referring to tethering as soon as ivy is an inch off stage, because ivy will be vulnerable to aether if he's too late. and if he's too early, aether will hit and ivy will be forced to double jump back on stage. best to go a bit further away from the edge so aether hits aren't an issue.

it's something to at least look into, at worst.

 

[Brinzy]

How the hell can you compare...

Forget it, nevermind. It was already addressed. I agree with Steelers numbers. Ironically, those numbers were exactly what I tried to push for on the Ike board, yet naturally it was "ridiculous" of me to think the things I did... ah, no offense Ike players. I just had a small laugh at the way things turned out regardless.

Anyway, final score? 55:45 to 60:40 PT? I don't think an average itself will be best because the Pokemon aren't out evenly, but do what you guys want.

 

[Steeler]

An average of the Pokemon is never an accurate depiction of the matchup.

6:4 PT sounds like the most reasonable conclusion to me, Ivy gives Ike more trouble than Zard in certain areas, such as practically forcing him to approach and play on Ivy's terms. That's not to say Ivy can't approach either, which also is helped out a lot with Razor Leaf.

 

[Brinzy]

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly about the average thing. Too bad every single effing board doesn't realize it.

"Zomg, 50:50, 60:40 us, and 70:30 us, 60:40 against PT! Any problems?"


"Yeah....






It's more like 80:20 our advantage."

This is gonna take some work to get fixed. I'll dedicate myself more to these type of threads, once we get to characters I know better...

 

[Jarun]

i really have no trouble with ike, you beat ike the same way i do with ivysaur, with charizard i play more defensively against ike and with squirtle i keep my distance, withdraw right to him, come out and aerial him to death, real easy
PT>Ike

 

[Onxy]

Overall it's a 60/40.

It's klnda annoying with these matchups, because everyone thinks their main has a 6/4 - 7/3 on all 3 pokemon.

 

[Guilhe]

maybe it's because pt and ivysaur have the advantage over ike. .

Yeah, may be.

this is a horrible, horrible comparison. they play nothing alike. luigi = squirtle is a much better analogy.

I’m not saying they play alike, or Ivy is some king of semi-clone, I used Luigi as a reference in projectile effectiveness and damage potential.

so the projectile isn't going to help, yet it'll pressure ike and make him take the initiative? which is exactly what ivysaur wants?

It’ll, but not as much as it is empathized in this discussion. It isn’t efficient for spamming and it leaves Ivysaur vulnerable if used too close to the target. As I said before, the Ike player won’t destroy his spacing while approaching. He’ll stick to a distance the only attacks that could hit him is Bair and Razor leaf. Limiting your options, it is more easy to react to them.

razor leaf gets ike into a position where ivysaur can more easily counter with an attack like ftilt on the ground, vine whip which goes through ike's attacks, or more commonly bair, which outranges ike's fair. ivysaur doesn't mind ike's fair that much.

The projectile really isn’t that hot. It is not like the two Links or Pit who can make a wall and limit or approach options, it has low fire rate, can’t be angled and travels slowly. It is a nuisance, a pressure tool, If the Ike player keep his head cool he will surpass it and even punish the Ivy if he does not use it ith distinction.

ivysaur is actually faster on the ground, excluding quick draw, which is pretty bad against ivy anyway since it has a projectile. funny to note is that ike and squirtle have the exact same dash speed, although squirtle's shellshifting makes him much more mobile.

You’re right. And that makes Ivysaur SH aerials much more effective than I’ve imagined.

the horizontal movement and fall speed do help ike space, but ivysaur can still get around it with a shield canceled dash, or simply predicting ike's attack and hitting him first with vine whip or bair.

one thing you omit is that most of ike's attacks, including his main spacer, fair, leave him incredibly vulnerable if the opponent spotdodges/rolls/perfect shields/hits him first with something quicker. and the predictability and startup lag of a lot of his attacks just compound the problem.

It doesn’t, Fair has very early IASA frames. You can’t roll behind him and hit him before he retains control or hit him back after as spotdodge (unless he spaced it badly). That’s why this is our main zooning move, because it is safe to perform with proper spacing (unless you perfect shield > grab, and have a grab range similar to Link’s or superior, that would really screw with this move). And Fair isn’t the only spacing tool, I wouldn’t use it if you’ll be coming dashing at me (I would’ve imagined you’ll try something like shield cancelled approach). I would use Nair, which auto cancels, much more safe.

so ike can use his grab to do something everyone can do: throw the opponent in the air. the thing is that ike's chase game isn't very good at all. most good players will be able to air dodge a fair or dair.

ivysaur can do the same thing to ike. not to mention that ivysaur's grab is much better than ike's. in fact, all three pokemon (yes even squirtle) have a greater grab range than ike does.

True. His chase is very depended on diversity and mindgames. Hard to hit, but devastating when performed with success. Think of it like your projectile (let me make this very clear: actually, there are no projectiles involved and Ivy`s has no relation at all with Ike`s play style) why not use it when distance allows it? It is hard to land but it is a free hit attempt. Oh, and my favorite follow-up is Uair, don’t tell anyone!

I don’t know if Ivysaur is good at chasing Ike in the air as only his Bair can outrange Ike’s aerials and it isn’t that much powerful anyway. But I may have not played a good Ivysaur, right?

i guess it's possible, but i wouldn't risk it. the intention should be to bair ike before he can use aether, so he just has to air dodge or try to counterattack (again, ivy's bair has more range) and risk being in a bad position to recover. once ike aethers, ivy just tetherhogs the edge.

in fact, if ike is forced into using aether, ivy could just jump off stage beforehand and tether as ike makes his ascent. snap onto the ledge when ike descends so ivy doesn't get spiked. i'm not referring to tethering as soon as ivy is an inch off stage, because ivy will be vulnerable to aether if he's too late. and if he's too early, aether will hit and ivy will be forced to double jump back on stage. best to go a bit further away from the edge so aether hits aren't an issue. it's something to at least look into, at worst.

I admit I haven’t though of that. Guess Ivy got the advantage at gimping!

Overall it's a 60/40.

It's klnda annoying with these matchups, because everyone thinks their main has a 6/4 - 7/3 on all 3 pokemon.

I would say Chalizard got the advantage over Ike, but I guess you had my intentions all figured out right? I’ll stop my futile annoyances as this board seems to have already decided this matchup rating.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

soo steeler are you an average PT because I mean I hontestly don't think you still think of the match up like this lol. We faced off at hobo 11 for those of you who don't know none of this foolish wifi stuff like in my sig.

Anyways my initial prediction was right it was Charizard> Ivy>squirtle at least in our matches which where the only ones that should really count.

Also I survived suirtles D throw or what ever the super strong one is at like 160% at the edge of the stage.

 

[Bomber7]

Woah Guilhe, carefull now, not many of us have the intention span to read all of that multi quote, just get to the point. But otherwise Carelessness spells death for PT when against Ike otherwise Ike is mense meat.

 

[Onxy]

soo steeler are you an average PT because I mean I hontestly don't think you still think of the match up like this lol. We faced off at hobo 11 for those of you who don't know none of this foolish wifi stuff like in my sig.

Anyways my initial prediction was right it was Charizard> Ivy>squirtle at least in our matches which where the only ones that should really count.

Also I survived suirtles D throw or what ever the super strong one is at like 160% at the edge of the stage.

Well it doesn't matter how you perform, but the moveset that does well against Ike. Steeler's Ivy doesn't seem that great really (and the reason I'm mentioning this is because IDK if he takes advantage of Ivy's grabbing, Vinewhip, and her aerials, so tell me how it went.), and his Charizard does seem better. His Squirtle seems to be his best though, so IDK.

 

[Guilhe]

Sorry Bomber7, but Ike was getting underestimated and poorly defended in various aspects in this discussion. I’ve tried my best to represent him properly in that post, so I empathize that the wall of text got content supporting it.

 

[Toby.]

soo steeler are you an average PT because I mean I hontestly don't think you still think of the match up like this lol. We faced off at hobo 11 for those of you who don't know none of this foolish wifi stuff like in my sig.

Anyways my initial prediction was right it was Charizard> Ivy>squirtle at least in our matches which where the only ones that should really count.

Also I survived suirtles D throw or what ever the super strong one is at like 160% at the edge of the stage.

The tricky thing about analysing PT matchups is that its very rare to see players who are equally good with all three pokemon. I have never seen such a player. This makes it really hard to pass judgement on which of PT's pokemon have an advantage or a disadvantage.

Don't fall into the trap of assuming your small amount of experience with a single player is reflective of the matchup as a whole.

I'd be interested to hear from steeler whether Dthrow was used during fatigue, or if it was suffering from stale moves.

 

[Onxy]

True, and since my best is Ivysaur, it's going to seem that Ivy has the advantage. I think both Ivy and Charizard have a slight advantage, and don't forget that a slight advantage is still a slight advantage. I wouldn't see too much of a difference during the gameplay.

 

[Itburns]

I don’t know how so much Ike players weren’t capable to prove Ike’s advantage over PT, especially against Ivysaur. This matchup is very similar to Ike versus Luigi (which is at disadvantage against Ike in the matchup chart): Luigi has a projectile just as bad as Ivy’s, making him conclusively a close quarter combatant. It’s not like spamming his projectile will get him anywhere (and he’ll get punished if using it too close), he’s projectile is just a tool for pressuring. Of course Ike will have to take the initiative in order to pass through it, but it is not like he’ll destroy his spacing while doing so. In fact, Ivy will be the one trying to approach him because if he’ll be outraged if he doesn’t do so.

Like Luigi, Ivysaur has fast moves that quickly build damage. But Ike has faster ground movement, horizontal air movement and falls faster. This makes Ike’s aerial attacks much harder to pass through.
Both characters grabs haven’t much going for them. But Ike can use his grab in order to throw Ivysaur in the air, where he can attempt an aerial attack and fast fall safely, or use it to throw Ivysaur out of the stage and spike him with Dair or hit him with Fair. In both cases Ike has a free attempt to land a powerful blow and not being punished.

As for KO and gimping, I’ve seen someone post that knocking Ike out of Aether could be done easily by using a ledge hopped Bair. I’ve never been gimped that way though many tried, the SA frames always became active before they could hit me. But well, it is possible… Probably you’ll get Aether spike’d though.

Charizard is harder in my opinion; he has faster horizontal aerial movement and that flamethrower. That combination really messes with Ike’s approach. Also, he’s heavy, can recover from afar and his upB has SA frames.

A final note over this matchup:
Ike’s KO power > Ivy’s KO power
Ike’s gimping power =<Ivy’ gimping power
Luigi >=Ivysaur
(Go Luigi!)

Comparing Ivysaur to Luigi is like comparing donkey kong to Ike just cause they have strong KO power.

I think the one mistake that all your points have in common is that your making them based on the idea that Luigi is >= Ivysaur. Whether its based on previous experience with playing a Luigi or not.... you are very inaccurate about your points.

Your point about Ivysaurs projectile being "just as useless as Luigis" is wrong. Ivysaurs razorleaf cannot be absorbed, it goes through breakable walls and curves. It also has a shorter lag animation than Luigis and its slightly faster.
In regards on why its beneficial against Ike is it can be used as a tool for pressuring but also with a single hit it can stop Ikes quickdraw and that my friend is a big thing when it comes to limiting Ikes movement speed and forcing him to come to you.

Ike does not outrange Ivysaur... his moves have a stronger knockback and priority but hes not outranged. Especially when one has a projectile and the other doesnt.

Your point about movement about Ike being faster on the ground... If a single razorleaf can eliminate quickdraw then you are limited to his jumping and running skills.. when its like that.. no Ike does not have better movement than Ivysaur.

As for K.O and gimping... you got one thing correct about Ivysaur... he deos have to rack up damage before he has killing potential but dont underestimate his smashes... I'd like you to see what its like to whiff an airmove to be hit by Ivysaurs up+smash and say that.

 

[Onxy]

Ivy and Ike have about the same range all together.

 

[Itburns]

overall, comparing moveset for moveset yes they are about the same range... but what differentiates the 2 is that one person has a projectile and one doesnt. That plays a big factor when it comes to range and spacing.

 

[Fearmy]

well i need to say something, seeing how i play both characters :o (PT Main, Ike my Secondary)



Squirtle vs Ike 50:50 Squirtle can gimp. Ike has more range, one Fsmash goes bye bye squirtle, however squirtle can mind game with fox trot, shell shift. Evens it out

Ivysaur vs Ike 65:35 Why that much? lets see Ike actually WILL have a tough time with projectiles, Yes Razor Leaf does move pretty slow, but that is also random, Razor Leaf sometimes likes to start out pretty fast, (not Pit fast, Link Fast) but it slows down REALLY Fast as well, so it depends how faraway ike is. You can roll dodge torwards Ivysaur, but that risks Ike being Bullet Seeded, F-smashed , F-tilt, or grabbed by Ivysaur, You can always Jump With Ike, but that risks being hit by SS Up B, which arguably can be Ivysaur's Best Kill move. You can Power Shield the Razor leaves, actually that is the best option, but after that, what can you really do? F-tilt, fair, are the only moves that out ranges ivysaur, but seeing how slow it is, and how you can easily power shield, or Shield Grab it i don't see how that hurts ivysaur. other approaches can be nullified with Bullet Shield (Shield -> Bullet Seed) and Don't talk about grab, Ike has a bad grab. It could be worse, but Eruption can change the game, sending ivyaur in the air, where it isn't very mobile, and a usmash's range has great Range, and a disjointed hit box (watch the air dodge before they land!) or kill ivysaur (due to weak to fire element)

Charizard 60:40 Charizard has more range than Ike, has more speed than ike, a Better recovery than ike, but less power than ike. Ike has a Great Jab (20% + WTF?!) Aether will actually do damage to the zard (again over 20%) but the tough part is getting to charizard. Charizard on paper is almost in every way better than ikeypoo. But if Ike can mindgame Charizard enough, (Auto-cancelling) or Getting Charizard above him, Things can turn nasty for Zard.

 

[Onxy]

Ike has more range than Charizard overall. Unless you count Flamethrower, Charizard is out ranged.

 

[Steeler]

yea arturo, i wouldn't say i'm a great pt, just decent. there was this guy at hobo that went by magik, i think he's one of the best pt's i've seen. he beat xyro's samus, whatever that means.

my ivysaur is really my weakness. but hey, that's why i ordered the pokes squirt/zard/ivy in my sig the way i did! you are a really nice ike though, and fighting you was actually really fun. for once, a good ike that i've met offline!

squirtle has the disadvantage. squirtle is probably my best poke and he was having trouble most of the time. arturo did a great job of spacing with nair, fair, and jab. i was once able to trap ike in a utilts -> uairs -> random aerials string for quite a bit of damage...it's squirtle's pressure and combo string ability like this that makes it, i think, a soft counter for ike instead of hard counter.

i can't comment on ivysaur too much, but i had a bit of trouble. in my case, at least, i did better when i approached while razor leafing and then bair/fair/ftilt/whatever. i had trouble defending against ike's sh approach. one thing i noticed is that a spaced fair seems to keep ike out of vine whip's hitbox, although i never did try it. i could definitely be wrong so don't take my word on it.

charizard has been covered for the most part. i do still feel like charizard has the advantage. one thing is be ready for grab release into jab from ike, arturo used that on me quite a bit, although not all ikes may do it.

i don't think you can argue that ike doesn't soft counter squirtle at this point. charizard>ike is pretty much agreed on. i can't say much on ivysaur.

sorry pokemon trainers, i tried!! although i had fun anyway.

 

[Fearmy]

Ike has more range than Charizard overall. Unless you count Flamethrower, Charizard is out ranged.

yeahi meant flamethrower and steeler, if you want, we can play, since i also play ike, see how it works out

 

[Steeler]

let's just come to a consensus already u_u

squirtle<ike
charizard>ike
ivysaur>ike
pt>ike

?? ivysaur seems to be the hot button right now, but a good ivysaur does a better job of controlling ike than a good zard does...

 

[infernovia]

I say put this matchup as neutral until someone can actually crack open ike. Put Ivy as neutral until it becomes obvious that the plant holds the edge.

 

[Miles.]

Ike is so easy to gimp.

With all the pokemon, even Ivy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dfhgMRgyUo

Lulz.

 

[Steeler]

IRL is too good!

no really though, ike got f*cked there.

 

[Kinzer]

Boy that Ike does not know how to DI to the left. >.>

 

[Onxy]

Lol.......

 

[Miles.]

It was more situational than anything. But still viable.

 

[A2ZOMG]

let's just come to a consensus already u_u

squirtle<ike
charizard>ike
ivysaur>ike
pt>ike

?? ivysaur seems to be the hot button right now, but a good ivysaur does a better job of controlling ike than a good zard does...

Lol dude, Squirtle does better vs Ike than the other three.

Ike is bad at approaching, and Squirtle is very good at punishing almost everything Ike does thanks to its mobility options. Ike in fact is pretty mediocre at defense since he's pretty much just got two options for defense. Jab and retreating F-air. Water Gun can even gimp his recovery.

The others can't zone Ike out the same way Squirtle can, so they will get jabbed significantly more due to having more punishable openings. I think for the most part Ike outranges the other two anyway, although Charizard has Firebreath which Ike hates. Ivysaur's projectile can be punished by Ike's huge range. Ike outdoes Ivysaur in the air and outdoes Ivysaur in damage per hit pretty noticeably so I think Ike should have the advantage there. ON a minor note, Eruption will also kill Ivysaur pretty quickly.

 

[Onxy]

Do you use Ivysaur ZOMG? I think we know what we're talking about, because most of us used PT since day 1. Also I've noticed your bias towards Ivy for months now, so I'm actually done listening to what you have to say as far as Ivysaur comes.

 

[HeroMystic]

I don't care about this match-up, but...

Lol dude, Squirtle does better vs Ike than the other three.

Ike is bad at approaching, and Squirtle is very good at punishing almost everything Ike does thanks to its mobility options. Ike in fact is pretty mediocre at defense since he's pretty much just got two options for defense. Jab and retreating F-air. Water Gun can even gimp his recovery.

Ike bad at approaching? C-sticked Dash Attack, N-air to Jabs, Tipped F-air? That's not bad, that's actually decent. Nowhere near great, but it's not bad.

Mediocre defense? That's what Ike is BEST at. Have you ever played an aggressive defensive Ike before? N-air is practically a shield in the air that automatically lets Ike follow-up on another attack, he has great spacing ability with his jabs, B-air has amazing knockback for it's speed, and his grabs are good punishing/follow-up tools.

Yeah, his recovery sucks balls, but lets try getting him off the stage first.

 

[Fearmy]

Ike shouldn't use Eruption or Quick Draw near the edge if he doesn't want to risk being WG by squirtle. have fun getting to ivysaur, like i said, almost every single move can be Bullet Shielded, due to the starting lag ( I kinda like the way that sounds) Eruption will do damage, but seriously have fun getting to ivysaur. Yeah you can outrange ivysaur at close range, but if you really disagree, i'm up for a match ZOMG. Ivysaur's Projectile again is slow at the end, but Fast at the beginning of the move.

 

[Miles.]

Yeah, his recovery sucks balls, but lets try getting him off the stage first.

Just Watergun...

 

[PkTrainerCris]

LOL... outrange at close range
overall, it hink its
squirtle 60:40 disadvantage
ivy and zard 60:40 advantage

 

[Onxy]

Out range at close range? Am I missing something?

 

[Kinzer]

I think he means in terms of Melee combat, but if he means just flat-out outrange then he needs help.