Pokedex Entry 11: Ike

[Onxy]

Ike out ranges Charizard, but not Ivy. Ivy's Ftilt might even be equal with his, because it even out ranges Marth's. Not only because of Ftilt though, but because of moves like her grab, Vinewhip, and jab. Ike is probablt overall the same with Ivy in terms of ranged melee combat.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

outranging at close range is outranging without counting the proyectile (i think)... which IMO ike doesnt have against ivy

 

[HeroMystic]

Just Watergun...

How the **** are you gonna watergun Ike TO GET HIM OFF THE STAGE? Do you guys only fight ******** Ike mains? God.

EDIT: You guys are silly. After reading that I'm not even gonna bother with this hopeless matchup discussion. Put up whatever numbers you want. It's doesn't matter in a real fight anyway.

 

[Onxy]

How the **** are you gonna watergun Ike TO GET HIM OFF THE STAGE? Do you guys only fight ******** Ike mains? God.

EDIT: You guys are silly. After reading that I'm not even gonna bother with this hopeless matchup discussion. Put up whatever numbers you want. It's doesn't matter in a real fight anyway. So one person says something silly, and you call this a hopeless discussion?

Bye

10gtfos

 

[Kith]

Wanna see something funny? As Squirtle, wait for Ike to try to recover to the stage with his Up-B. Right when he starts the Up-B animation, water gun horizontally towards the edge he is trying to grab, and watch him die. It warms my heart :-D

 

[Steeler]

it's lulzy but it requires some set up on your part.

edit i'm a ****** that forgets that he has the most recent post in the thread

 

[Steeler]

ike boards haven't gone through this matchup in their own thread, so there will be another opportunity to discuss this.

in the meantime

4:6 squirtle<ike
55:45 ivysaur>ike
6:4 charizard>ike

60-55/40-45 pokemon trainer>ike

main reasoning is that kinzer is the only good ike that fought a good ivysaur (onxy) and iirc he felt ike "would be lucky" to get a neutral matchup with ivysaur, the other two pokes are pretty much agreed upon. but again, there will be another opportunity to discuss this when ike boards do the matchup themselves.

i hope there are no hard feelings between anyone, i'm very grateful to each and every ike regular that commented on the matchup. you guys > king dedede board lol.

 

[Kinzer]

Eh, I'm no good, just one of the few smart Ike mainers, along with whoever else you've heard of, but yeah, Ike will at best only have a neutral match-up vs. Ivysaur, that little plant has the range and the ledgegaurd game, but even so it still has it's weakpoints like recovery.

Edit: Oh btw Steeler, we never did have our little get-together over wifi, if you feel up to it sometime I can arrange something. Maybe you'll have a different perspective if you get to fight somebody besides Burrito.

 

[Onxy]

If recovery is about the only weakness Ike can exploit, then it's a 6/4 for Ivy. Anyone can exploit her bad recovery, so that shouldn't really make a matchup neutral because of it, no?

 

[Kinzer]

True, very true. So then thing's look grim when Ike is up against an Ivysaur.

 

[Onxy]

Yeah basically.

Still need more info on Squirtle though, lol.

 

[Kinzer]

That's true as well, IRL either couldn't/didn't want to so some of the AT's I've heard about Squirtle, like "shell-shifting" and what not. It's still legitimate that Squirtle can outmaneuver Ike, but we still have our Range and Power you got to admit.

 

[Onxy]

The range is more bothersome than his power - although his power is too much for Squirtle.

On a side note, Ike can chain grab release on Squirtle, and known this for months now so I didn't neglect that.

I would like to fight a good Ike in person, or with no lag so I can give some input. I'm sure online for me is laggy as ever, but I haven't played this game in weeks xD I tried to play someone last night, but the room crashed.

 

[Steeler]

kinzer my ivysaur isn't anything near onxy's level lulz. although we could try my squirtle out, i can still do some things with his shellshifting on wifi.

 

[Charizard92]

Are we getting ANYWHERE NEAR A CONCLUSION?!

 

[Onxy]

I had some games with Fear, and my Ivy as usual does okay, but my other 2 are really lacking.


Oh yeah! *Aims cannons at Charizard and blasts him.*

 

[Fearmy]

Ivy REALLY Hurts, However, Powershielding Razor Leaf is fun >:D but mainly that if Ike uses Quick Draw to Recover Above the Stage, you can use Up B (SS it) U smash Uair, Razor Leaf IS hard to block against when used right in your face, but a quick draw can help if you get it through the gap, and if you don't hit anything, Eruption. Eruption will kill ivysaur at around 100% But the main part is actually getting close to ivysaur. Ivysaur 60:40 Ike i say.

I won't talk about the others yet, Onxy says that his other 2 are lacking so i won't count them

 

[Onxy]

You have to fight a good Charizard, because Charizard sucks in lag and I'm not even good with him. IDK any good Charizard's really, because it seems the really good PT's use Ivy mostly (I'm not saying that I'm very good)

P.S. Fighting Squirtle in a laggy room is dreadful.... Not using him, but fighting him is.

 

[Charizard92]

Oh yeah! *Aims cannons at Charizard and blasts him.*

It missed. Yep, it missed.

 

[Onxy]

*Keeps blasting him*

 

[Charizard92]

Wow, what a lousy shot you are. Here's a more precise aim...

*hits Onxy with Frying pan over head*

Now can we stop this fantasy war.

 

[Fearmy]

That's true as well, IRL either couldn't/didn't want to so some of the AT's I've heard about Squirtle, like "shell-shifting" and what not. It's still legitimate that Squirtle can outmaneuver Ike, but we still have our Range and Power you got to admit.

Oh the techs are Fox Trot, and the Shell Shifting is an animation where Squirtle Goes in his shell when you pivot, so people like to mess with that and mess with the delay. I Belive this actually is the best mindgames ever.

Seeing how Ivysaur > Ike is legit now, we should focus on Charizard. on Paper, Charizard Will Control Ike when they both are on the ground. Flamethrower has longer range than any of ike's moves. Charizard can pull out moves faster than ike, but Ike just wins in power. Now the trick for Ike to change this battle is move Charizard in the air. Charizard doesn't have that much defense in the air, and has horrible DI. But Charizard can Jump around trying to avoid the Ike, though the weakness to the strategy is that If you get hit by a Fair, Charizard will be screwed by trying to recover with no Jumps. But have fun getting Charizard into the air! (Eruption will work, but don't count on it, it'll work like 40% of the time)

 

[Onxy]

See, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to Ivysaur, so maybe people should listen to me a little bit more. Before it was like "Omg, Ike has owns Ivysaur, no doubt!" to "...Ivysaur beats Ike...". Lol.

 

[Kinzer]

Are we getting ANYWHERE NEAR A CONCLUSION?!

Sorry, me and Steel were just battling it out over wifi...and I have to be honest, I can't see how people are agreeing on 60/40 Ike vs Squirtle...d*** turtle can freaking move!

But owell, I'm one person, It's up to you guys to figure out YOUR matchup vs Ike, my work here is done.

 

[Onxy]

I'm not too good with Squirtle, as much as I love the little guy. Maybe I'm a little harsh on the turtle...... But hey, people have me/Retro for Ivysaur, Steeler/Fear for Squirtle, and IRL/Charizard for Charizard.

 

[Steeler]

yup yup onxy. you and retro have to show me how to play a good ivysaur, and i'll show you how to **** marths with squirtle. (not really but seriously)

that's the problem when we do these things...the other character has to play three different people to play a good version of each pokemon lol.

 

[Onxy]

I wuv my new picture xD

 

[Steeler]

too bad i can't see it

 

[Onxy]

...............

Can you see everyone elses?

 

[Steeler]

i can see kinzer's. it's a glitch with custom avatars. sometimes (maybe always idk) they won't show for anyone other than yourself.

even though my squirtle impressed kinzer, i'm thinking i'll just keep the matchup at 4:6 ike...

 

[Onxy]

That's stupid....So are you telling me the WHOOOOOOLE time, you never saw my Blastoise? Or even my shark toothed Squirtle?

 

[Kinzer]

Bingo!

10caughtoffgaurds.

 

[Onxy]

????????????

 

[Kinzer]

Ever since the maitenance, there's been this annoying bug in the forum where certain custom Avi's won't display to anybody/everybody but yourself, that's why I had to go back to my old default set-up...

Anyway good luck with the matchups and whatnot, I'm going to go get some homework done.

 

[Onxy]

Well right now my picture is a bad *** looking Venusaur.

Anyway, at least I contributed for once, lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Do you use Ivysaur ZOMG? I think we know what we're talking about, because most of us used PT since day 1. Also I've noticed your bias towards Ivy for months now, so I'm actually done listening to what you have to say as far as Ivysaur comes.

I don't hate Ivysaur. I hate Squirtle actually.

Do you know how gay a 120% D-throw kill is? That alone makes Squirtle the best of the three PT PKMN. Considering how he's hard to hit and has HUGE grab range, yeah.

Also Squirtle is extremely hard to hit, thanks to being small and mobile, but the worst part is if you miss him, he's so **** mobile he can dart in after you miss and start comboing you.

Actually, the REAL reason why I hate Squirtle is cause Inui keeps saying Squirtle is S-tier. And quite frankly I can't disagree with most of his points. And cause Inui is gay.

Ivyaur however is clearly one of the worst characters in Brawl. Mediocre mobility, bad damage, few safe kill options, and bad recovery. =/

Ike shouldn't use Eruption or Quick Draw near the edge if he doesn't want to risk being WG by squirtle. have fun getting to ivysaur, like i said, almost every single move can be Bullet Shielded, due to the starting lag ( I kinda like the way that sounds) Eruption will do damage, but seriously have fun getting to ivysaur. Yeah you can outrange ivysaur at close range, but if you really disagree, i'm up for a match ZOMG. Ivysaur's Projectile again is slow at the end, but Fast at the beginning of the move.

Also, let me just point out, notice how Ivysaur can supposedly bulletshield most of Ike's approaches? That should automatically emphasize how bad Ike is at approaching. Ike gets ***** by shielding.

I'm convinced Squirtle can shieldgrab pretty much anything Ike has that isn't a retreating F-air. And D-throw at 120% kills almost anyone.

I'm not incredibly good with Ike, but I'll take you on.

 

[Miles.]

I wuv my new picture xD

To bad its Venasaur.

 

[Onxy]

A strong Dthrow doesn't make you the best even if it killed you at 70%. A Squirlte sheild grabbing Ike? Yeah, maybe really close. Squirtle has range, but not like Charizard, or Ivysaur's grab. IDK, everyone who doesn't use PT thinks Squirtle is the best out of the 3, so I don't fault you. Her damage is only bad on her Bair, but that move is still her best move even if it only does 5%. Have you noticed what makes Bair so good? I know Ivysaur is a good character. Not great, but good. I know Squirtle is an okay character too, and Charizard has the potential to be great. So everyone can think Ivy is worse than Falcon, and I hope they continue to think that when I'm owning their high+ tier characters.

 

[Miles.]

Onxy lets play lagmaster.

 

[A2ZOMG]

A strong Dthrow doesn't make you the best even if it killed you at 70%. A Squirlte sheild grabbing Ike? Yeah, maybe really close. Squirtle has range, but not like Charizard, or Ivysaur's grab. IDK, everyone who doesn't use PT thinks Squirtle is the best out of the 3, so I don't fault you. Her damage is only bad on her Bair, but that move is still her best move even if it only does 5%. Have you noticed what makes Bair so good? I know Ivysaur is a good character. Not great, but good. I know Squirtle is an okay character too, and Charizard has the potential to be great. So everyone can think Ivy is worse than Falcon, and I hope they continue to think that when I'm owning their high+ tier characters.

The thing about throws that kill is you can SPECIFICALLY reserve them for killing since you have 6 options from getting a grab: The four throws, a grab attack, or waiting for a grab release. That's why throws that kill reliably are extremely good. Getting a grab in Brawl isn't hard unless you play the likes of Captain Falcon or Ganondorf (which I do as a matter of a fact), and if your opponent isn't ready to die yet, you can simply do other throws until you get a grab at the right time.

And like, Falco has TERRIBLE grab range, but he's top tier BECAUSE of what he can do from a grab.

Just because Ike outranges Squirtle doesn't mean that range is the only factor in a match. If you are extremely mobile, like Squirtle, you can simply wait for him to attack, and then move in before he has a chance to do other things.

At the very least, I find it nuts that you guys think Ike has the advantage on Squirtle. He has two good attacks. Jab and retreating F-air. That's it (and IIRC, Squirtle has a faster jab than Ike, which means a lot since this can potentially interrupt anything he does on the ground). Everything else he does fails against shields miserably. Also Ike is easy for Squirtle to combo because he's slow and heavy, and if Squirtle gets an attack on his midair jump, he's most likely dead.