Pokedex Entry 11: Ike

[Onxy]

I'd rather have a Falco-like chain grab than a good kill move with Squirtle. Squirtle actually needs his Dthrow so he could switch if needed. Also, waiting for someone to attack to take advantage isn't really much of an advantage. Ivysaur can even do that better than Squirtle because of her long range, quick attacks.

If you haven't noticed, most Pokemon have damage issues. Look at Lucario, and Pikachu. Low damage attacks.

 

[Steeler]

agreeing wholeheartedly with a2, i was able to move in on ike whenever he'd miss an attack and lag would permit. jab doesn't help ike that much because squirtle can just short hop dodge through ike's jab and then start harrassing ike, since he lacks a quick option behind him. iirc dsmash hits in front of ike first. jab is still ike's second best move against squirtle, behind nair.

juggling ike into the air is HORRIBLE for ike, all of his options, including counter and nair, are too slow to help him out of a low to mid percent chain of utilt to uairs to another aerial or two. utilting ike at low percent is too good, i'm not an expert at it and it was online so i'd have to resort to ftilting after two or three utilts, but it seems that squirtle could chain more utilts together by walking in between and reading the ike's di. then link 2 or 3 aerials together and voila. that's like 30-40%. and at that percent, you can still uair him twice if you get him in the air again. this isn't anything to rely on because utilt has no range, but it's an option when you get the opportunity to punish ike. and squirtle is too good at punishing ike's every move, aside from nair to jab, both of which are avoidable for someone as mobile as squirtle. i seemed to do best when i focused on punishing with grabs and uthrowing at low percent and f or bthrowing at mid to high percents, both of which set ike up for follow up. ike is pretty heavy so dthrow wouldn't kill on fd til about 140%. squirtle's grab is too good.

a2 is making me want to move it to neutral but idk. i'm pretty sure kinzer is the only ike that would agree to it.

 

[Onxy]

I would agree to it, but can't ever put it into play. Yeah the Ike's would hate that. A2 has some point into what he is saying, except everything he said about Ivy vs Ike.

 

[Steeler]

i really don't like ivysaur either lol. if bair did 8%, ivysaur would be loads better. hell if his recovery wasn't balls, he'd be loads better.

also, at a few points i was able to control ike pretty well with ivy by using razor leafs, bairs, and ftilts. the ftilts would only hit for like 2 or 3 of the 7 (iirc) hits, but the range was too good on the ground and allowed me to turtle in the air and on the ground, with razor leaf helping both.

 

[Onxy]

Well that's why your not good with Ivy, because you don't like her.
I'd rather have Ivy's recovery, because Vinewhip is a great on ground attack. I'd rather have her recovery than Wolf's, lol.
Ftilt will only hit a few times if you tip it.
If Bair did 8%, Ivy would be too good.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

sometihng like 55/45 for ike vs squirtle is reasonable

 

[Kinzer]

55/45 is an underestimation on behalf of Squirtle, and don't worry about our opinions, if anything Steeler should fight the other Ike's and show them how Ike's range and power doesn't mean s*** if Squirtle keeps making circles around our laggy attacks...ah hell it could even be possible to say attacks because Ike has too few quick attacks with the exceptions of Jabs/Bairs/Nair forming a shield. Go ahead and put down whatever you want, it doesn't even matter to us really, it's your guide, but for your sake it would be better to be right.

 

[Steeler]

well, it'll set a precedent for the pt discussion the ike board will eventually have. and some ike mains, like ussi, are upset with us (or all other character boards for that matter). idk.

 

[Kinzer]

Think of yourselves as "the few, the proud", you want to be as precise with your PT guide as possible. You're not alone on this board, you have others working on the same main character as you are. You are the very backbone of this board, without you contributing to it, this board would be dead. So what if you are exiled from the other boards, it's up to you to help make your PT lives easier, not to mention any future PT depend on you to make the best guide to help them in their matches to represent. Althoguh I'm one person, my honest opinion is that althouhh it might be either a small advantage or just an advantage, Ike < PT. I suggest you stick with that.

 

[Onxy]

Yeah, we REALLY need a conclusion to this. If the other Ike's have a problem with our advantage, let them come to us. I'd put the DDD matchup as an overall neutral also so they can dispute with us - instead of ignoring us.

 

[Ussi]

Steeler i'm not upset, i'm more just blah ~_~ I don't really care what people put up as numbers, people will always believe what they believe is right. This is why i rely on brawling for numbers, hell this is why i gave up on numbers. I'll give my opinion when asked, that's all. Whether people decide to listen to it (Usually not) is up to them. Seriously, every bias board as put Ike a 7-3 match up, so I'm not caring what people say anymore about match ups. They want to underestimate Ike, then they can be my guest.

~~I don't agree with your numbers, but I can't really do anything since everyone complains about 1. lag, 2. Ike does better online (Which is false, only NOOB Ikes do better[or playstyles]) ~_~ I wish i could find people in my state to play in person.

 

[Onxy]

Every board does think that Ike is their easiest matchup, lol. I actually find it funny, because it's almost the same with us. I never really thought Ike was our easiest matchup, and I actually think Jigglypuff is our easiest. I know I'm going off topic by saying that, but I'm tired and bord.

What numbers don't you agree with? I think you agreed to the Ivysaur one, and IDK if you fought any other decent PT users. My Charizard is garbage, so I wouldn't base anything off of that. We had some games that were okay for like 6 matches+, and we broke off near even until after the FD situation.

 

[Steeler]

yeah he agreed with ivysaur.

from what i've seen, charizard might be even and squirtle advantage, but again, that's MY pt.

also ganondorf is by far pt's easiest matchup lol.

 

[Onxy]

I see it as the other way around, lol.

Jiggly is easiest. Ganondorf, at least he has the range and power.

 

[Ussi]

I fought IRL who gave lag johns. Steeler I can brawl you if you want, if the connection is good, then I can adapt back to the online play.
I went with this:

Ike > Squirtle

Ike < Ivysaur

Ike = Charizard

 

[Onxy]

It's going to be hard to find a good Charizard who doesn't lag.

 

[Ussi]

me and IRL have better connection than me and onyx.

 

[Onxy]

Oh alright.

Burrito and Kinzer both think Charizard does best, but to what degree? Burrito was kinda vague.

Well I always thought Ivysaur and Charizard have the advantage. I was able to prove that Ivy does, and I know Charizard has the advantage as well. That I can't prove, because he is my weakest. Charizard suffers the most in lag out of the three.

 

[Ussi]

maybe playstyle comes into play then? Since most PTs have a weakest character, that probably messes them up if that gets exploited.

 

[Steeler]

playstyle deeeeeefinitely comes into play. no question about it. you have to play three different pt's to get an accurate look at the three pokemon lol.

 

[Miles.]

maybe playstyle comes into play then? Since most PTs have a weakest character, that probably messes them up if that gets exploited.

This is the most insightful thing I have ever read from a non PT main about PT.

This is one of the biggest weaknesses in the char I think, that you have to master 3 chars in 1 it is very common that we normally have a weak link.

I fought IRL who gave lag johns. Steeler I can brawl you if you want, if the connection is good, then I can adapt back to the online play.
I went with this:

Ike > Squirtle

Ike < Ivysaur

Ike = Charizard

When you connect 2 FSmashs a match...
And I cant even block a Quick Draw that you sit and charge for like 5 seconds...

Yeah thats lag.
Spam those in real life?
I sure hope you dont.

I was complaining that the lag made it difficult to dodge/punish laggy attacks.
And when it comes to a "I pray this hits/spam moves war" Ike win, none of the PTs can afford to trade hits with him.

Offline Squirtle would terrorize Ike.
Terror in the night.
Kick open your bedroom door will you sleep and Like 5 Squirtles in shades with pillowcases filled with bars of soap beat the piss out of Ike.
But really Squirte is about evasivness, quickness, and pressure I for one have a hard time playing the same way I do in real life that I do online.

My john was you wouldnt hit me with FSmashes in real life and I said LULZ if you actaully spam such laggy/bad attacks in real life too. (Sitting and just charging quick draw because online its a ***** to dodge or even block.)

You called FSmash spam mind games when I complained that Lag = FSmash Kills.
I think even other Ikes would laugh at that.


The biggest weapon anyone was against Ike is Sidestep/Airdodge Insert Laggy Ike Attack* and punish. I find dodging fairly hard online.

 

[Ussi]

I've played Onxy and ITL, so thats Ivy and Zard, Steeler can equal squirtle then?

When you connect 2 FSmashs a match...
And I cant even block a Quick Draw that you sit and charge for like 5 seconds...

Yeah thats lag.
Spam those in real life?
I sure hope you dont.

I was complaining that the lag made it difficult to dodge/punish laggy attacks.
And when it comes to a "I pray this hits/spam moves war" Ike win, none of the PTs can afford to trade hits with him.

My john was you wouldnt hit me with FSmashes in real life and I said LULZ if you actaully spam such laggy/bad attacks in real life too. (Sitting and just charging quick draw because online its a ***** to dodge or even block.)

You called FSmash spam mind games when I complained that Lag = FSmash Kills.
I think even other Ikes would laugh at that.


The biggest weapon anyone was against Ike is Sidestep/Airdodge Insert Laggy Ike Attack* and punish. I find dodging fairly hard online.

Sigh ~_~ this is the main reason I gave up on wifi. Have you ever HEARD of BAITING?? I try to bait air dodges to punish the after/landing lag since Ike has lingering hitboxes. it works wonders.

and charging a QD, were you doing flamethower while I just charged one? Or maybe i was waiting for you to come to me and I just found an opening.

 

[Steeler]

sure ussi. i was about to send you a pm.

and i agree with irl on one point, and it's that offline you can dodge ike's attacks much better and punish accordingly, something that squirtle and bullet seed/ivysaur ko rely on.

 

[Miles.]

Oh alright.

Burrito and Kinzer both think Charizard does best, but to what degree? Burrito was kinda vague.

IMO=
He is the most resistant to KOs being the heaviest.
He gimps really well.
And his grab game can get Ike of level really quick.
Flamethrower is so good here, Ike isnt fast enough to punish it when you space it right.
Charizard punishes maybe the best out of the 3 with Rocksmash doing 49% or Flamethrower.

 

[Ussi]

~_~ my playstyle relies on baiting...

also lag = Ike can't approach

steeler, how's 3pm sound for you? I have to eat lunch first. ** 1pm your time**

 

[Steeler]

it's already 1:47 pm...lol

 

[infernovia]

IMO=
He is the most resistant to KOs being the heaviest.
He gimps really well.
And his grab game can get Ike of level really quick.
Flamethrower is so good here, Ike isnt fast enough to punish it when you space it right.
Charizard punishes maybe the best out of the 3 with Rocksmash doing 49% or Flamethrower.

idk, squirtle's utilt combos are devastating, its an easy 45%. And I am pretty sure rocksmash does 43% if you manage to land all the hits in.

 

[Steeler]

rock smash does 45% max. a good flamethrower will do 15% minimum.

 

[Santi]

Zard is a tank.
=)

 

[Ussi]

oh snap, I thought Kansas was mountain time o_o;; well i'm getting on now.

 

[Steeler]

Zard is a tank.
=)

gtfo santi you only play pt for FUN

lol jk

yo let's get some more friendlies in at oh snap aight? and show me some tlink this time! none of that falcon bs lol.

 

[Miles.]

idk, squirtle's utilt combos are devastating, its an easy 45%. And I am pretty sure rocksmash does 43% if you manage to land all the hits in.

Lulz show me this in even training mode on a comp that doesnt move. You would need like 6 or 7 to = 1 Rocksmash.

rock smash does 45% max. a good flamethrower will do 15% minimum.

Nope 49% I have done this plenty of times and I have it in my vids.
(Its not a big deal only 4%.)

Zard is a tank.
=)

^ Truth.

Santi is a *********. He comes in and posts every now and again to make us all wonder.

 

[Santi]

gtfo santi you only play pt for FUN

lol jk

yo let's get some more friendlies in at oh snap aight? and show me some tlink this time! none of that falcon bs lol.

PT is just soo fun :D
I'll play him competively though, in a low tier tourney
tehehekeke
:D

We'll get in some more friendles, against my TL and my Tank.

 

[Steeler]

PT is just soo fun :D
I'll play him competively though, in a low tier tourney
tehehekeke
:D

We'll get in some more friendles, against my TL and my Tank.

alright santi lookin forward to it.

and the lag against ussi was baaaaaaad lol so we might give it another go later on.

 

[Onxy]

Steeler, I do recommend putting the DDD as an overall neutral. With Squirtle being a 45/55. Ivy being a 50/50. Charizard being a 45/55. If they complain, then we have a matchup discussion going, dont we?

Who are we doing next? It was random that we did Ike, lol.

 

[Miles.]

Steeler, I do recommend putting the DDD as an overall neutral. With Squirtle being a 45/55. Ivy being a 50/50. Charizard being a 45/55. If they complain, then we have a matchup discussion going, dont we?

Who are we doing next? It was random that we did Ike, lol.

Are you joking?

Have you ever played anyone in real life?
I am seriously doubting that you have.

If you think that DDD versus PT is Neutral you must only be playing CPU's, Online, or you just have no idea what a chaingrab is.

 

[Onxy]

Ohh for hell's sake. THERE IS A REASON WHY I WANT THEM TO BE A NEUTRAL! SO THEY CAN.....you know...TRY TO REFUTE IT.....and instead of....INGNORING US?

 

[Miles.]

Are you joking?

Have you ever played anyone in real life?
I am seriously doubting that you have.

If you think that DDD versus PT is Neutral you must only be playing CPU's, Online, or you just have no idea what a chaingrab is.

10youdidntasnwerthequestions

 

[Onxy]

Questions? Why do I have to answer it when it has nothing to do with what I'm saying?

 

[Miles.]

Questions? Why do I have to answer it when it has nothing to do with what I'm saying?

Because you are basing your "facts" off of cpus and online play.

Which are bother worthless compared to a real life "IRL" opponent.