hahahaha you have GOT to be kidding me. i was THERE watching that match when it happened.
yes, that's the kind of **** that happens in our smash crew here lol.
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Pokedex Entry 11: Ike
- Thread starter Steeler
- Start date
yes, that's the kind of **** that happens in our smash crew here lol.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Maybe so. I think Captain Falcon is easier for the PT to deal with though. Captain Falcon literally can't touch a well-played Squirtle because his hitboxes are complete crap.
Ganon can be gimped super easily by Squirtle, and in general is easier to gimp than Ike. Unlike Ike though, he's got significantly better shield tactics (well, no 4 frame Jab, but he's got options that are fast and kill).
Ganon also has much better combos than Ike, as D-air will lead to almost any of his aerials or U-smash. Flame Choke gets guaranteed combos on all 3 Pokemon, and I think Flame Choke COMBOS into F-tilt on both Squirtle and Ivysaur (gimps anyone?). His edgeguarding is also better too with faster aerials allowing him to somewhat chase his opponent off stage.
PkTrainerCris
Smash Ace
LOL at your sigh
Hoser
Smash Ace
You guys might want to change the Ike vs. Squirtle match-up. The Ike boards have been testing grab releases, and we've found that Ike has a grab release chain grab on Squirtle. We're still doing some testing, to see if a pivot grab would still work. If so, it'll be an infinite.
Also, we may have found one on Charizard. We're still testing it, and it's not guaranteed. But something we have found guaranteed, is we can get off a free F-air on Ivysaur with an air release.
Here's the topic, incase you're interested: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201243
(There's an advance in Ike's Meta Game? NO WAI)
(Also by 'we', I mean not me at all. I've just been watching so far. >.>)
Also, we may have found one on Charizard. We're still testing it, and it's not guaranteed. But something we have found guaranteed, is we can get off a free F-air on Ivysaur with an air release.
Here's the topic, incase you're interested: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201243
(There's an advance in Ike's Meta Game? NO WAI)
(Also by 'we', I mean not me at all. I've just been watching so far. >.>)
A2ZOMG
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Wow snap, good news for Ike then. That probably gives him +5% at least in matchups where he does have a grab release.
If the grab release on Squirtle is an infinite, then Ike wins that matchup 65/35 (well, just keep in mind, it's not EASY to grab Squirtle, and I think he has more grab range than you).
If the grab release on Squirtle is an infinite, then Ike wins that matchup 65/35 (well, just keep in mind, it's not EASY to grab Squirtle, and I think he has more grab range than you).
Hoser
Smash Ace
It looks like it's not an infinite, but it is most definitely a chain grab. But to make up for the fact that it's not an infinite, we can off stage Air Release into a f-air :0
Hoser
Smash Ace
Uhh, this has not been known for a while O.o
It's been known for Marth and Yoshi, but not Ike. If it's news to the Ike boards, I doubt it's not news for the PT boards. Not to mention, if it was known, then it would have been mentioned somewhere in this topic at least once.
It's been known for Marth and Yoshi, but not Ike. If it's news to the Ike boards, I doubt it's not news for the PT boards. Not to mention, if it was known, then it would have been mentioned somewhere in this topic at least once.
Wii4Mii 99
Smash Lord
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But I thought Ike had a somewhat bad grab range...?
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
I thought that didn't matter? Because if Ike grabs Squirtle once, he's going off the stage.
He does. But if he's lucky enough, he can do some good with his grabs.
Wii4Mii 99
Smash Lord
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Darn. 
Well, at least Squirtle has his small size and superior speed. But if I'm not mistaken Squirtle has trouble against opponents with disjointed hitboxes, which is what Ike has...
I don't know my ratios and whatnot, but I'd think this match would be in Ike's advantage.
(Please excuse me if I'm stating the obvious. I'm just trying to learn this stuff and get my facts straight)
Well, at least Squirtle has his small size and superior speed. But if I'm not mistaken Squirtle has trouble against opponents with disjointed hitboxes, which is what Ike has...
I don't know my ratios and whatnot, but I'd think this match would be in Ike's advantage.
(Please excuse me if I'm stating the obvious. I'm just trying to learn this stuff and get my facts straight)
Onxy
Smash Lord
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This was under discussion in the Marth vs PT thread months ago. Many characters can do this to Squirtle. Maybe the Ike board didn't know, but some of us did.
PkTrainerCris
Smash Ace
Yeah i remember that time... onxy likes squirtle a lot and was happy to play as him, but he was sooo dissapointed of those stupid standing chaingrabs, he made a list of characters who can do that to squirtle (not sure if ike was in ), he said squirtle and the game sucked etc ...
Finally, he got into ivysaur mainly because her playstile was better for onxy
Finally, he got into ivysaur mainly because her playstile was better for onxy
Really? I've played a few Ike's and I've got to say my squirtle wrecks them. I do have to change up my play style a little but. I become more defensive, baiting attacks, and water gunning them onto the edge (And eventually watergunning their Up+B to their doom). I'm really trying to get some videos up, but my squirtle does amazing against Ike.
something I found out a few days ago: So on WIFI me and my friend were playing and he kept doingthe ether spam on the ledge and if I tried to edge hog him I knew I'd get thrown down and die and if I tried to ledge guard, I'd end up get his by that p*n*s sword and that didnt work. Well it just so happened when I was charz, he kept doing that which was working and for like 30 seconds he kept doing it, so i was desperatly thinking of what to do, then it hit me. so i went up to the edge and used flamethrower on him as he kept spamming it and when he came up to the edge his recovery failed and he went plummeting into the ground becasue I guess the flamethrower disrupted his recover(and note he was point blank with the edge) not to mention with his invincible fram he could entirly mess up and recover again, so I'm pretty sure that's a good tip on how to beat someone who does that, if that's a common practice among the Ike boards.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Bomber, what happened there is the person you were facing reached his Aether-ledge limit.
Just like how Ivysaur can only Up B the ledge three times without touching the stage, Ike can only Up B the ledge five times without touching the stage. The 6th time, he'll either have to land on the stage from Aether or he has to suffer death.
Just like how Ivysaur can only Up B the ledge three times without touching the stage, Ike can only Up B the ledge five times without touching the stage. The 6th time, he'll either have to land on the stage from Aether or he has to suffer death.
well, decided to revive this to continue the discussion on the ike board...if anyone cares.
squirtle is pretty much agreed upon as having a disadvantage. ike kills early and has a grab release. squirtle can, however, rack up a lot of damage early in ike's stock.
ivysaur and charizard are up in the air, but i think charizard is more effective than ivysaur. mainly because flamethrower gives ike zero options to retaliate unless he predicts it way ahead of time. rock smash ownz as usual. charizard can effectively gimp ike. stuff like that.
squirtle is pretty much agreed upon as having a disadvantage. ike kills early and has a grab release. squirtle can, however, rack up a lot of damage early in ike's stock.
ivysaur and charizard are up in the air, but i think charizard is more effective than ivysaur. mainly because flamethrower gives ike zero options to retaliate unless he predicts it way ahead of time. rock smash ownz as usual. charizard can effectively gimp ike. stuff like that.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
update your match up chart then.
Incase this does continue here (I won't bother with it) BS comes out on frame 4 it was tested twice by two different people and they got the same result.
Incase this does continue here (I won't bother with it) BS comes out on frame 4 it was tested twice by two different people and they got the same result.
Guilhe
Smash Ace
Ike running in, rolling behind and jabbing could work against FT. How would Marth react to FT?
Kirk
Smash Champion
marths will usually di up and use dolphin blade because of the invincibility. idk how effective aether would be, not sure if ike has SA on frame 1, which he'd likely need.
i'm going to wait until i get my new laptop to update the matchup chart, which SHOULD be tomorrow.
dell's a *****.
a shield canceled dash into a roll could work, but flamethrower's range is greater than the distance of ike's roll, so he might just accidentally roll into charizard's mouth. something to think about.
i'm going to wait until i get my new laptop to update the matchup chart, which SHOULD be tomorrow.
dell's a *****.
a shield canceled dash into a roll could work, but flamethrower's range is greater than the distance of ike's roll, so he might just accidentally roll into charizard's mouth. something to think about.
Onxy
Smash Lord
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Those arguments I had with IRL in this topic were hilarious.
I hate match up discussions. The one in the Ike board had more flaming than I've ever seen. Also, something else that boils my blood, is that people don't like discussing matchups with us because were are PT. We don't matter, apparently. I got tired of this kind of stupid attitude from people, and I left this site for about a month for this reason. Then I decided to cloister myself in this nearly dead board xD
I hate match up discussions. The one in the Ike board had more flaming than I've ever seen. Also, something else that boils my blood, is that people don't like discussing matchups with us because were are PT. We don't matter, apparently. I got tired of this kind of stupid attitude from people, and I left this site for about a month for this reason. Then I decided to cloister myself in this nearly dead board xD
CLOYSTER???
lol cloyster
i'll happily cloyster myself with you, in this dead board.
aaaaaaaaaaa
zeta has looked into bullet seed, and he says it comes out on frame 2. which makes sense, because frame 4 bullet seed would not be able to interrupt marth's dancing blade multihit. let's see what other people find on their tests.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Kirk's frame data work was good enough to get him into the smash lab. He can literally go "Hm, I wonder how this attack looks like on X frame." and click through frame by frame to that moment. As well as it's 3 saying 4 frames vs one guy saying 2 frames.
I'm willing to discuss Charizard (as thats the one I know the most about), but not until I have some frame data on the flame breath. When does it come out, how long does it stay longer ranged then Ike's fair, how long does it last, how long to fully recharge, how long until it recharges just enough to outrange fair, and how much ending lag. Other wise it will be a lot of guessing on both sides. Rock Smash data would be nice as well, but I don't need nearly as much. Just when it comes out, when it ends.
And fyi, we just found out that for Ike jab -> grab is a true combo. Meaning that the moment Squirtle is within Fair killing range, we just need to jab him once to get a kill on the right stage. Jab -> Utilt and Jab -> Jab are also true combos.
I'm willing to discuss Charizard (as thats the one I know the most about), but not until I have some frame data on the flame breath. When does it come out, how long does it stay longer ranged then Ike's fair, how long does it last, how long to fully recharge, how long until it recharges just enough to outrange fair, and how much ending lag. Other wise it will be a lot of guessing on both sides. Rock Smash data would be nice as well, but I don't need nearly as much. Just when it comes out, when it ends.
And fyi, we just found out that for Ike jab -> grab is a true combo. Meaning that the moment Squirtle is within Fair killing range, we just need to jab him once to get a kill on the right stage. Jab -> Utilt and Jab -> Jab are also true combos.
so this will probably cause more arguement so sorry for this, but what does it really matter what frame bulletseed comes out/ what frame flamethrower comes out? if it were frame 2 would it make ivysaur any better really?
and same with charizard, its a relatively slow move on startup but knowing that makes you use it differently so its not as if when it comes out slow you can just avoid it. ike boards should know that best of all.
i mean yes its important to have. i agree with that. but in this case its practically moot especially in this rediculous bullet seed case. if its 4 frames that doesn't make it an "oh, no big deal. it comes out on frame FOUR. LOL at that move."
and same with charizard, its a relatively slow move on startup but knowing that makes you use it differently so its not as if when it comes out slow you can just avoid it. ike boards should know that best of all.
i mean yes its important to have. i agree with that. but in this case its practically moot especially in this rediculous bullet seed case. if its 4 frames that doesn't make it an "oh, no big deal. it comes out on frame FOUR. LOL at that move."
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Actually, I was corrected on the Jab->Grab true combo. If you jump after being hit, there is actually a very small period of time where you could potentially dodge the grab. We're talking roughly 2 frames to dodge. So while the Jab->Grab is not a "true" combo, it's a "very very very hard to dodge and you will get grabbed most of the time" combo. XD
As for how it functions with Dsmash and Utilt: I don't know. I wasn't corrected on those points, but I didn't bring up those combos in the Ike Discussion topic. 1st Jab on it's own gives Ike a 13 frame advantage, except for when the opponent jumps, in which case the time is cut down. You don't get a full jump out of it, you rise up off the ground a bit. Not 100% sure how that cuts down the hitstun, I don't count frame data. I missed the "unless them jump" claus the first time I read it, so my bad.
And for the BS Frame data, it's this simple: Ike's Jab is 3 frame. The argument is which is faster, with 1 source saying BS is faster, and 3 saying it's slower. I honestly think in the video of BS interupting Marth's DB that Ivy just DI'd upwards, and that the next hit in the multi-stab went just under Ivy as BS came out.
And I want to know the Fire Breath data so I know how often Charizard can use it and have it out range Fair, as that is it's main claimed advantage other than disrupting attacks. I also want to know how much time there is to punish it, how long to get a hit in first before Ike is hit.
As for how it functions with Dsmash and Utilt: I don't know. I wasn't corrected on those points, but I didn't bring up those combos in the Ike Discussion topic. 1st Jab on it's own gives Ike a 13 frame advantage, except for when the opponent jumps, in which case the time is cut down. You don't get a full jump out of it, you rise up off the ground a bit. Not 100% sure how that cuts down the hitstun, I don't count frame data. I missed the "unless them jump" claus the first time I read it, so my bad.
And for the BS Frame data, it's this simple: Ike's Jab is 3 frame. The argument is which is faster, with 1 source saying BS is faster, and 3 saying it's slower. I honestly think in the video of BS interupting Marth's DB that Ivy just DI'd upwards, and that the next hit in the multi-stab went just under Ivy as BS came out.
And I want to know the Fire Breath data so I know how often Charizard can use it and have it out range Fair, as that is it's main claimed advantage other than disrupting attacks. I also want to know how much time there is to punish it, how long to get a hit in first before Ike is hit.
