Pokémon Trainer

[Moon Monkey]

Actually, Ivysaur's recovery is pretty good when used correctly, though I would like a bit of upward momentum with Vine Whip, kind of like Ice Climber's Belay.

Another buff I would give Ivysaur is to make his meteor smash easier to hit. It's nearly impossible to hit. Bullet seed should also suck in the people around your bulb, not just your feet.

Charizard's fine from what I see. Maybe some super armor on Rock Smash and his forward smash.

Squirtle could use just a tad more weight as could Ivysaur.

You know, I've never talked about how I would change my main....

It's kinda fun...

I gotta go do this for my secondaries!

Tether recovery on a whole in Brawl wasn't good. If someone grabs the ledge the move doesn't work at all as a recovery. a PM implementation like being able to latch on to the ledge regardless if someone is holding it would be a buff. and not limiting it to the ledge like Melee would be great too.

Ivy needs more than just a recovery buff to catch up with Squirtle and Charizard.

Yeah he needs a move that can be used as an alternate means of recovery. idk.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I want him to return, but a lot less sucky.

The 1st gen pokemon are perfect to me. Things I'd change to the movesets:

Squirtle: Water Gun should deal damage. I mean, Sakurai has apparently not been hit by a Super Soaker blast to the face, lol.
Ivysaur: Terher (well, in general) should work like in Melee. Dsmash should come out faster OR wider. Some aerials should be less laggy.
Charizard: FIVE jumps is all I ask for. The thing's got WINGS.

Oh... and the Fatigue system too. OR at least make the Pokemon Switch faster, and allow it on air.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Agreed with most changes there.

Ivysaur's Razor Leafs also should be stronger and reach farther. Squirtle;s B doing damage would also be awesome. And his Up B should be a better attack.

Charizard should get his Rock Smash replaced with something. Actually, I hope they kinda make him as he is in Project M.

 

[Carlo_H.Luz]

Hitmonchan+Hitmonlee
Magmar+Electabuzz+Jinx
Chikorita+Quilava+Feraligatr

Man! Why not a "Super Pokemon Smash Bros." in 2016???

 

[SpeedyJ]

I want Pokemon Trainer to come back if Ivysaur gets Solarbeam.

Carlo_H.Luz, because SSB is for all of Nintendo, not just Pokemon.

 

[grizby2]

Hitmonchan+Hitmonlee
Magmar+Electabuzz+Jinx
Chikorita+Quilava+Feraligatr

Man! Why not a "Super Pokemon Smash Bros." in 2016???

omg hitmonlee. he'd be so much pwnage.
if pkmn trainer does return, I think it'll be a girl this time. that's just my GUTS talking.

 

[Moon Monkey]

If this picture from Sakurai's Twitter is a pseudo-confirmation:

Spoiler

Then I am going to assume this picture as well is a pseudo-confirmation. I doubt Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur are going any where:

Spoiler

 

[LaniusShrike]

If this picture from Sakurai's Twitter is a pseudo-confirmation:

Spoiler

Then I am going to assume this picture as well is a pseudo-confirmation. I doubt Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur are going any where:

Spoiler

My understanding is that the first picture he explicitly said all the characters in it were returning, while for the second picture he explicitly said "lol this has nothing to do with Smash Bros just a fun pic look at my action figure collection".
... (paraphrased).

I wouldn't mind seeing the three pokemon separated into different characters, though, and "pokemon trainer" not returning. While some people certainly do switch between them, I would personally have more fun with them as fully independent buttkickers.

Besides, "P.Trainer" and the Wii Fit "Trainer" looks annoyingly similar to me.

 

[blulight516]

idk about you people, but im wondering what generation they would use if they even put another pkmon trainer in. i think 5th, only because of zoroark. if thats the case, can it be tetpig, dewott, and serperior? idrc about the other two i just want to play as dewott (im aware there is a slight to no chance of this)

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I sure hope they don't go with the most current gen route. The pokemon trainer (Red) represented in Brawl is just much more iconic than any trainer after that (the same being said of the pokemon). Its not just the fact that he was in the first game but the fact that he's been in seven games total which cannot be said about any of the other trainers.

Though if Sakurai did go that route, it would most certainly be the sixth generation. Its kind of like how Lucario made it in Brawl even though the 4th generation didn't come out till past midway through Brawl's development.

 

[Z1GMA]

Remove Stamina.
Remove forced switching.
That's all he really needs.

Aside from PKMN Trainer, I'd be happy to see a female PKMN Trainer, too.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'm becoming increasingly worried about PT's chances. Transformation characters could potentially cause problems on the 3DS version of the game (even the Wii suffered from lag issues).

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I wouldn't worry too much, transformation characters may be a harder inclusion this time around but Sakurai has stated that the 3DS will not hamper on Wii U character inclusion. Now as far as playing 3ds in a lag free poke setting, that's something to be concerned about.

 

[MrGlitch]

I think he will be replaced with N

 

[PSIguy89]

I really do hope that Red returns! he was one of my favorite newcomers for Brawl! I have been worried more and more myself the more the limitations of the 3DS are brought up. that and the fact that both version of this next smash are to have the same roster. Now I know some people have thrown around the idea of just splitting up all 3 pkmn, but am I the only one here who actually cares about the appearance of RED himself? =/

 

[Darth Shard]

...am I the only one here who actually cares about the appearance of RED himself? =/

You're not alone. While I think the Pokemon play better separately in Project M, Red is the franchise trainer that truly deserves to represent his series in Smash. Just do away with the whole stamina deal and let me stick with one Pokemon for as long as I want and we'll be good.

 

[HarryTheChin]

I honestly haven't the slightest idea if PT will be returning with the exact same trio.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I agree with the common change everyone wants:

-Forced switch cycle off. (If your pokemon dies, then it's ok, but a little input to choose the next poke would be nice)
-Stamina system gone

To what I add:
-Taunt button switching for a more precise way of selecting Pokemon.


The trainer character should be the same. I don't mind different color schemes for (1st gen) Pokemon Trainer, but changing his appearance would kill it for me.
I'd also like him to sport a black, Team Rocket color scheme.

And better colors for the Pokemon starters.

I know there's supposed to be an issue with the Pokemon company on how they represent the colors of Pokemon (why Pikachu and Jigglypuff have different colored accesories for each color scheme, or how every color Lucario has is blue except the Black+White one, or how Mewtwo is mostly white with a faint hue difference between each).
But I REALLY hope they come up with better colors for the Pokes. Be more flexible about it, or give US the option of providing our own color edits with the Gamepad/Touchscreen.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I honestly like the force switch system. It forces you to work with a team rather than one poke.

Still I think everyone can agree stamina is a joke. Personally I'd like to see a system where when you're pokemon loses a stock you can't use it for the next 20-30 secs (because it's fainted).

 

[Moon Monkey]

You're not alone. While I think the Pokemon play better separately in Project M, Red is the franchise trainer that truly deserves to represent his series in Smash. Just do away with the whole stamina deal and let me stick with one Pokemon for as long as I want and we'll be good.

I think he would pretty cool if he worked like Yugi did in Jump Superstars.
Red could quickly summon Pokemon for his attacks. For example: he could summons Squirtle for his back aerial, Charizard for his Forward Smash, Pidgeot for his recovery etc...

 

[Xigger]

Wow, there's an awful lot of hardcore balance enthusiasts in here. Stamina and switching was a step in the right direction, just not done right:

Stamina is how the PP system transitioned into Smash- after a while, the only move you can use is Struggle. For Smash, it came down to making everything weaker. The system can be changed into something more fair, but whatever it is still has to encourage switching to a new, healthy Pokemon. You are playing with 3 Pokemon, not selecting your favorite and just that one.

Switching's lag is a double edged tactic to switch to a healthier Pokemon, yet not have 3 fighters at your instant disposal. If switching out had no open spots, if you could move at the same moment you could throw up your shield, it wouldn't be so despicable.
Yet it needs to transition from the Pokemon games better. If you switched Pokemon mid fight, your opponent gets a free hit, or they could switch out too. In a non-turn based game, Trainer is the only one switching out. It doesnt need to disappear or become exactly what we want, it's only needs to IMPROVE itself.

 

[DeathKidZ100]

Pokemon Trainer will return but will get replace by the black 2 & White 2 Trainer.

 

[Reznor]

Pokemon Trainer will return but will get replace by the black 2 & White 2 Trainer.

so why do you think we will get the B&W2 Trainer and not the 6th gen Trainer

 

[shinhed-echi]

Wouldn't that count as "cutting"? Something Sakurai wants to avoid as much as he can?
That would disappoint fans of THREE/four characters as opposed to just one.

I can see characters like Toon Link replaced for new forms of a younger link, but replacing Pokemon Trainer is too much change.

 

[DeathKidZ100]

this is reason why i choose black2 pokemon trainer because SSB4 will be base of last gen Wii/DS and what was the last pokemon game come out for the gamboy advance pokemon firered & leafgreen and what was the the last pokemon game to come on the Ds Black 2 & White 2 that is my reason. (why do you think they choose Red to be in brawl)

 

[Xigger]

this is reason why i choose black2 pokemon trainer because SSB4 will be base of last gen Wii/DS and what was the last pokemon game come out for the gamboy advance pokemon firered & leafgreen and what was the the last pokemon game to come on the Ds Black 2 & White 2 that is my reason. (why do you think they choose Red to be in brawl)

You're supposed to post in the "welcome to the forum" part before here, but...

Even if your theory is right, it would be less work to bring back Red rather than make a new trainer. Would you go to that trouble?

 

[Funkmasterblitz]

Give PT the ability to switch in the air.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Man, it certainly is nostalgic seeing a topic like this...heh.

Anyway, I'm pretty confident Pokemon Trainer will return. It's a rather stupid theory of mine, but looking at the cover of every Smash game so far, every character that's been featured has returned. Pokemon Trainer was on the cover of Brawl, and he was the first Pokemon character in the series to be unlocked by default. So with that, I do feel like he has a strong chance of returning. I do believe Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard will be present. In fact, I don't think he'll change very much at all. He's already pretty unique.

My personal wishes would be for Ivysaur to gain some status effect moves and get a better recovery. I want Charizard to be heavier (I will forever hate the fact that Snake was heavier than him.) With the power of the Wii U console, I hope Pokemon Change won't suck. Umm...that's about all I want. Colour wise, I just want Red's colours to change to reference other main trainers from the other generations.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Man, it certainly is nostalgic seeing a topic like this...heh.

Anyway, I'm pretty confident Pokemon Trainer will return. It's a rather stupid theory of mine, but looking at the cover of every Smash game so far, every character that's been featured has returned. Pokemon Trainer was on the cover of Brawl, and he was the first Pokemon character in the series to be unlocked by default. So with that, I do feel like he has a strong chance of returning. I do believe Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard will be present. In fact, I don't think he'll change very much at all. He's already pretty unique.

My personal wishes would be for Ivysaur to gain some status effect moves and get a better recovery. I want Charizard to be heavier (I will forever hate the fact that Snake was heavier than him.) With the power of the Wii U console, I hope Pokemon Change won't suck. Umm...that's about all I want. Colour wise, I just want Red's colours to change to reference other main trainers from the other generations.

I was thinking exactly this the other day too.
I do believe Pokemon Trainer has secured his place in SSB. Of course time will tell, but I think I'm one of the most optimist people around for his return.

 

[Ingoro]

Pokemon Trainer in Brawl is a combination of Red and anime's Ash. Therefor I dubbed him: "Rash".
On topic, as a Pokemon fan and PT main I would love for him to change. I think what makes Pt unique is that he could change from pokemon instead of staying with the same ones he'd used way back. I think the chances are decent for him too be completely changed with pokemon to keep the actual 'pokemon trainer' principle alive. My own personal preference would be the Sapphire & Ruby trainer with a Treecko/Combusken/Swampert set-up. This because of the rumored Sapphire & Ruby remakes. Also Brawl had the hat from the female player from Leaf Green for Jigglypuff.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

I've had a quick read through this topic and not spotted anyone mention this so I'll give it a shot:

Pokemon trainer's type effectiveness system is a big factor in the match-ups for each individual pokémon and the new characters both appear to bring elemental moves. Megaman's Leaf Shield is almost certainly going to be grass type while he has two fire type moves as well, and Villager's weed pull, tree chop and possibly sapling all could be grass aswell as the watering can being water if it's an attack. Do you think there will be any other typed moves from the other characters? And can you think of any more typed moves you could fit into smash 4 (like making one of Olimars Pikmin grass would be nice)?

Do you think this will have much effect on each pokemon's usefulness, balance out Ivysaur's type weakness at all, or just not matter? Ofcourse this is if you think the type effectiveness will stay around and not get cut, in which case I'd like to ask why?

Another thought, though one I doubt will happen, how would you feel if Squirtle (and perhaps even Charizard) became weak to electric attacks in smash, given both water (and flying) are famously weak to electricity, perhaps even with Ivysaur resisting (Grass resists Electricity too). Do you think this would add anything to the character, balance out each pokemon, or just be a bad idea?

 

[shinhed-echi]

Hey, now THAT'S some deep thinking!

This tells me an Earth adept from Golden Sun is even more likely since he'd sport Earth AND GRASS type moves.
Perhaps we'll see a character with more WATER based attacks as well... but whom?

As for Squirtle being weaker to electric type.. I don't think they're going out of their way to do that, but if they do, they better make Ivysaur resistant to electricity as well. I would want to have an alternative to dealing with Pikachu after all.

And btw, they would only focus on the Pokemon's primary elemental weaknesses, I bet, and ignore their second types.

 

[Xigger]

I... think going into elemental types isn't Smash's area of fighting. If anything it's about the fighting style that would serve as types: I don't think adding in a system of element damage to every few attacks here and there would serve a good purpose.

 

[_R@bid_]

Elements should only be used for status effects. The type resistance and weakness mechanic works great in Pokemon, but horrible in Smash.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Type_effectiveness

It's already been added Xigger, though some people think it should be removed.



A golden sun lead would have grass type moves too, I didn't think of that, good call.

I also don't think electricity would go super effective on things, but one big problem with Ivysaur is his weakness to fire, I was just voicing a reasonable way to balance this for the other two, and seeing if people agree and where.

As for water, I really don't know, other than the watering can as villager's jab idea I've seen all of once I really can't think of a good water attack for any of the characters I've even seen discussed on here; anyone got any other ideas?

EDIT: I'm mistaken, I have seen someone talk about bubble bobble duo, who's bubbles could be water, there's one, but I don't think they'll make it in, so ya. And I've also seen Starfy but kinda forgot about him, he could easily have water moves... anyone else?

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well I'm not exactly in favor of adding more elemental disadvantages (such as electric (for water), ice (for grass), and ground (for fire)) just for the heck of giving PT more weaknesses. ._. if anything PT needs more advantages.

But what I'm saying is that there already exists an elemental advantage system that affects only the PT's pokemon types through Fire, Grass, and Water. I'd like to see other Grass-users (such as Isaac), or Water-users (such as Simon Belmont with Holy Water) to name a few. We already have PLENTY fire-users (Mario, C.F., Fox, Falco, Luigi, Bowser, Olimar's fire Pikmin, etc)

 

[Cheezey Bites]

I can understand your meaning, and I agree that he needs a good buffing, but I feel Ivysaur gets overlooked because fire is over saturating the game, if we balanced the other characters to have more a more similar number of weaknesses you could buff all the trainer's mons up a bit, whereas, with it as is Ivysaur needs more buffing than the others quite possibly because of the fire thing (though probably not just that).

I also disregarded a lot of the other elemental weaknesses and resistance for just the well known match-ups in pokemon (ie. electricity), feeling adding any more would make it too complicated (it's already complicated with just the 3 to worry about).

And yeah, we CERTAINLY don't need more weaknesses for Ivysaur even if Ice would make sense, another part of my electric choice (a resistance and possible weakness for the other two), especially as Megaman has his fire sword and flame burst moves too.

That said well thought on holy water, that one didn't occur to me.

The more I think about it the more I think it should be removed for balance sake, but I like it as a concept, I just think there needs to be a way to balance it.

 

[Xigger]

As an easter egg? It's cool. As an important game feature...

For the Pokemon Trainer it isn't bad, it's reminiscent of the Pokemon games; other characters being involved is like a small bonus to that. But that makes way too much fire, only a little water, and NO grass.
In it's current implementation, Squirtle has no weakness aside from another Pokemon Trainer's Ivysaur, Ivysaur is weak against half of the roster, and Charizard has about 3 water enemies. It imbalances the game too much.
And it's only a defensive trait for Pokemon Trainer: the advantage is only for opponents. It has no offensive value for those playing Pokemon Trainer whatsoever unless you are battling another Pokemon Trainer. Playing Pokemon Trainer should make the player want to switch out for an offensive OR defensive advantage. As it is, it would take too much work to balance, so it shouldn't be a big part of the game.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I think that among PT's Pokemon it's alright becaust it's a way of avoiding Squirtle kicking Ivysaur's *** all the time (.. though it still happens a lot, I bet, lol) or Ivysaur destroying Charizard.

But among the whole roster, I'm not TOO happy about it. Ivysaur already has enough reasons to get destroyed easily.
Wouldn't mind if it's used for status purposes.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Mmm, the lack of offensive bonus is a big problem to the concept, I thought for a moment that being hit by a resistance could bring about a buff mode (torrent/overgrow/blaze just as ideas), but it wouldn't make much sense in the pokémon game's mechanics but could make the switch more purposeful. This however would basically require Grass to get a useful resist (electric as I said earlier would work) just so Ivysaur can go overgrow. [Charizard resists fire in this concept so he can go blaze mode] I think it's over complicated, but I'd like to know what you guys think to it?

I DO think for balance sake it should be removed, but I just want to put some ideas out there, try and defend it as I love it as an idea.

I must say though, whatever happens, I like the opinion of it being in effect against other pokémon trainers regardless, if they could find a way to implement it without the rest of the roster, but I think that could be pretty difficult.


And don't worry shinhed-echi I agree Ivysaur needs a big buff in ssb4, some status inducing moves (sleep/poison powder) would make her much more niche and enjoyable to play plus more useful. The weakness system wouldn't be enough, but changes (like I previously contemplated) or blanket removal would go some way to help him out I'm sure.