Pokémon Trainer

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

The reason why in game transformation was taken out was because the transformations were read from the disk's info hence why it takes like 4 seconds. Sakurai, claiming to want to balance the game, finally took it out. Now, as long as Squirtle comes back....

Double post

You do realize greninja is a water starter and incredible definatly more popular than squirtle so it's almost a no brainer greninja is replacing squirtle

 

[Diddy Kong]

Poor Squirtle. Poor Ivysaur.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Well, pokemon trainer is no more. As someone said before, they probably had trouble implementing a smooth transformation sequence that would be quick enough to make it viable in a match. It was fast in melee but not in brawl, I assume they encountered the same problem in the 3DS version and maybe the Wii U one as well.
So it seems that they did what they had to for the sake of balancing and efficiency. It was probably for the best.

 

[Yonder]

Guys, it is Sakurai, you never know...unless he flatout says like he faked with ZSS "Pokemon Trainer will not be in this game". Then there is probably a 1% chance of hope.

But yeah, he's most likely gone, for good reason too. Hopefully they cut Squirtle and Ivysaur also to make room for Mewtwo and Jigglypuff. Squirtle and Ivysaur were unique, but they don't have nearly the same popularity as Mewtwo and maybe even Jigglypuff currently with her new fairy type. If that decision is/was made, the roster would pan out perfectly with 6 pokemon reps.

 

[ToddCam]

Man, what is the deal? Why is everyone so certain anybody's cut? The Trainer himself I get (and even then, it's not outside the realm of possibility he appears in some other fashion), but Zelda being shown without Shiek did not disconfirm Shiek, so why is this accepted by so many as fact? I understand it takes away certainty (which there never was anyway), but all Sakurai did in the trailer at the end was confirm Charizard. Greninja and Squirtle having the same Water-type is so ridiculous. I guess we could never have two blue-haired swordsmen, right? There are no rules as to how many Pokémon reps the game has. There are no rules as to how many Water-types there. Squirtle and Greninja play very differently, so I don't see how one is the other's replacement. They may be cut, but it's far from certain.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Ivysaur was my favorite, but it's understandable that Charizard is the one who gets the free pass. Squirtle and Ivysaur are still possible I suppose, but I doubt them for some reason. I mean, we also have to leave space for Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, so that'd leave us at a whopping 8 Pokémon characters, which from Sakurai's perspective makes it easy to decide what franchise will be the first to have cuts should they happen.

As a side note, I can only imagine how sad it must have been for Red to get a letter invitation for Smash Bros, only to have it tell him he isn't invited, but his Charizard is. It's not always fun being the very best.

 

[ToddCam]

I agree that the signs are not good. I am truly torn about which Pokémon I would pick if I had to choose between the last two slots if that were the case. But the overwhelming certainty is quite... perplexing. I expected a few people to assume this, because logical fallacies are commonplace. It reminds me of the obnoxious "Up Until Now" thing from the pre-Brawl days.

 

[Halfhead]

I assume that, like I think the Mario franchise is doing, Pokémon maxes out at 5 playable characters. At the moment, we have 4: Pikachu, Lucario, Charizard, and Greninja. That last space, in my opinion, can be filled with one of four options: Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, or Ivysaur (sorry Red and Pichu fans).

As much as I'd love to see Squirtle (my PM main) or Jigglypuff (my Melee main) take the spot, Mewtwo just seems more likely.

You have to think about which roster would seem the most legit and plausible given today's Pokémon community. Although I, like most of us, I think, was completely shocked by Greninja's reveal, I think our current four picks make perfect sense in hindsight.

Pikachu: mascot, DUH

Lucario: almost a secondary mascot at this point. Although people assumed Lucario would be cut for whoever comes next, I think that's short-sighted. Lucario has been crazy important to the Pokémon franchise since his unvailing in Diamond and Pearl. His popularity was also revitalized due to his large importance in X and Y.

Charizard: he's back in vouge. The Kanto starters were also secondary X and Y starters. Charizard has always been the most popular, it's cruelly simple.

Greninja: the most popular, nearly most competitive, and most Smash-looking Pokémon of all the new X and Y Pokémon. Already extremely popular, Greninja is riding through the ranks of Pokémon faster than anyone since Lucario.

With only one more spot (presumably), who can compete with these guys in popularity. Unfortunately, not Squirtle/Ivysaur. Nor Jigglypuff; you had a good run little buddy. No, the answer has to be Mewtwo.

If you asked me in a non-Smash context who the 5 most popular Pokémon are, I would say Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario, and probably even Greninja. It just makes sense this way.

This isn't to say being in a past game isn't important (or even EVERY game in Jiggs' case), just that the path Sora and Namco have chosen is probably the best way they could have gone.

 

[DMurr]

There is literally no reason that Pokemon can't have 6 reps in Smash 4.

 

[samsparta21]

Should be closed. Jiggs is the last Pokemon rep, and Pokemon Trainer was replaced by Solozard.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Double post

You do realize greninja is a water starter and incredible definatly more popular than squirtle so it's almost a no brainer greninja is replacing squirtle

Nah brah. I didn't notice. After playing all 6 gens, I was so confused when I saw Greninja. I mean I didn't realize the mysterious liquid that covered that shuriken esque thing, made him spring off the tree, covered his sword, that was in his taunt, in his Fair, his grab, and aided in his recovery was none other than....water. I thought it was poison or aura or some dragon spirit. This also made me realize that Greninja was none other than a full fledged DRAGON type.

Anyway, no Squirtle is still popular than Greninja. Greninja is and shall always be cool, but Squirtle is cooler. Squirtle Squad out!

 

[bryanoid]

I wouldn't be surprised if Pokemon Trainer shows up in some form. Who knows, maybe he'll be added as a background character when certain playable Pokemon are selected? (Who throws the pokeballs when Pikachu and Jiggs enter the stage in Brawl? Might as well tie it all together). Red can possibly be a boss on some stage, sending out his pokemon as stage hazards. Maybe the 3DS version will allow you to upload your custom X&Y trainer? Sure, Squirtle and Ivysaur don't make much sense any longer as stand-alone characters. So they're likely replaced by more fitting characters. But don't count out a PT appearance just yet.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Should be closed. Jiggs is the last Pokemon rep, and Pokemon Trainer was replaced by Solozard.

And mewtwo clearly tops squirtle for popularity ivysaur is barley even up there in popularity

 

[UberPyro64]

Man, what is the deal? Why is everyone so certain anybody's cut? The Trainer himself I get (and even then, it's not outside the realm of possibility he appears in some other fashion), but Zelda being shown without Shiek did not disconfirm Shiek, so why is this accepted by so many as fact? I understand it takes away certainty (which there never was anyway), but all Sakurai did in the trailer at the end was confirm Charizard. Greninja and Squirtle having the same Water-type is so ridiculous. I guess we could never have two blue-haired swordsmen, right? There are no rules as to how many Pokémon reps the game has. There are no rules as to how many Water-types there. Squirtle and Greninja play very differently, so I don't see how one is the other's replacement. They may be cut, but it's far from certain.

It's not the fact that they haven't been shown. It's the fact that they have competition with Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I'm still being optimistic for Squirtle and Ivysaur. It's just who I am, sure there's a point where I have to say there's no chance, but this isn't one of those circumstances... The ZSS and Sheik non-transformation character, plus revealed much later is an odd in the other starters favor. Plus, I bet if Charizard wasn't revealed, and it was only Greninja, I would say people would say the Kanto trio would be cut entirely. So in short I wouldn't be saying they're cut just yet.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I'm still being optimistic for Squirtle and Ivysaur. It's just who I am, sure there's a point where I have to say there's no chance, but this isn't one of those circumstances... The ZSS and Sheik non-transformation character, plus revealed much later is an odd in the other starters favor. Plus, I bet if Charizard wasn't revealed, and it was only Greninja, I would say people would say the Kanto trio would be cut entirely. So in short I wouldn't be saying they're cut just yet.

I don't think Greninja would be the main reason for ruining people's hopes. It's more that it was announced that characters can't transform midbattle anymore.

 

[Shroob]

-snip-

I'd like to point out, that you are wrong.

Jigglypuff has no shot? Are you kidding me? Jigglypuff has just as good a shot as Mewtwo. Do you notice something that all these Pokemon characters in Smash 4 have in common? No?

They're all relevant to the 6th generation.

Pikachu is the mascot, and the least relevant, sure, but it is the first Pokemon in game that is actually using voice clips for its cry, instead of electronic gibberish.

Lucario played a small but important role in X and Y and teaches the player the concept of Mega-Evolution.

Charizard is a Kanto starter, which is available in X and Y and you can get early, and has not one, but TWO Mega-Evolutions.

Greninja, is the most popular Kalos starter, really nothing more to it.


So what's missing? What's the one thing that was promoted to hell and back and is yet still not playable in Smash?

Fairy typing.

And who was one of the first Pokemon to be confirmed with it?

Jigglypuff.


I rest my case. Mewtwo has just as good a shot as Jigglypuff. To say Jigglypuff has no chance is horse ****.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I don't think Greninja would be the main reason for ruining people's hopes. It's more that it was announced that characters can't transform midbattle anymore.

I wasn't saying it was, but I'm saying if charizard wasn't shown in the trailer, then it would cause even more doubts....

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Well, it was confirmed that characters wouldn't transform/change in mid battle anymore and pokemon trainer basically runs on that gimmick . So I have to say that it's very likely that he will not return. It's a shame to not see Ivysaur and Squirtle but they are not as popular as Charizard, who debuted solo, and I they doubt they are gonna be given the same privileges.

Also Jigglypuff not likely? There are still people who believe that? Really?
Jigglypuff is a given so I'm not even worried about her. And no, saying that because she was one of the last characters added to Brawl seems like a weak reason to me.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'd like to point out, that you are wrong.

Jigglypuff has no shot? Are you kidding me? Jigglypuff has just as good a shot as Mewtwo. Do you notice something that all these Pokemon characters in Smash 4 have in common? No?

They're all relevant to the 6th generation.

Pikachu is the mascot, and the least relevant, sure, but it is the first Pokemon in game that is actually using voice clips for its cry, instead of electronic gibberish.

Lucario played a small but important role in X and Y and teaches the player the concept of Mega-Evolution.

Charizard is a Kanto starter, which is available in X and Y and you can get early, and has not one, but TWO Mega-Evolutions.

Greninja, is the most popular Kalos starter, really nothing more to it.


So what's missing? What's the one thing that was promoted to hell and back and is yet still not playable in Smash?

Fairy typing.

And who was one of the first Pokemon to be confirmed with it?

Jigglypuff.


I rest my case. Mewtwo has just as good a shot as Jigglypuff. To say Jigglypuff has no chance is horse ****.

Well for mewtwo same as lucario and he was the first pokemon to ever reveal a mega form we diden't even know that was a mega form till then

And another thing the 6 have in common

They are all the most popular pokemon

Mewtwo is the most popular gen 1 charizard is the second most popular jiggly puff and pikachu are tied

Lucario got popular because of the movie with mew and considered a semi legend

And greninja is the most popular gen 6 pokemon

 

[Shroob]

Well for mewtwo same as lucario and he was the first pokemon to ever reveal a mega form we diden't even know that was a mega form till then

And another thing the 6 have in common

They are all the most popular pokemon

Mewtwo is the most popular gen 1 charizard is the second most popular jiggly puff and pikachu are tied

Lucario got popular because of the movie with mew and considered a semi legend

And greninja is the most popular gen 6 pokemon

No, Mewtwo plays no role in X and Y itself. Lucario is the Pokemon that teaches you about Mega Evolution in game.

And no, Jigglypuff isn't that popular I'd say outside of Smash fans.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

No, Mewtwo plays no role in X and Y itself. Lucario is the Pokemon that teaches you about Mega Evolution in game.

And no, Jigglypuff isn't that popular I'd say outside of Smash fans.

I kind of realized that just a momment ago

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

So what's missing? What's the one thing that was promoted to hell and back and is yet still not playable in Smash?
Fairy typing.
And who was one of the first Pokemon to be confirmed with it?
Jigglypuff.

I rest my case. Mewtwo has just as good a shot as Jigglypuff. To say Jigglypuff has no chance is horse ****.

Not saying that Jigglypuff isn't likely...but being fairy type wont be the reason she returns.

A whole new type of pokemon is a big deal for the pokemon games, but I don't think its a big deal for super smash.

We don't have a rep from every type. When we got steel type in gen 2, we didn't get a steel type rep. Plus if they cut Ivysaur and its not replaced we're losing our only grass type. So typing probably hurts characters like meowth/any normal type of pokemon who visually wont have flashy moves, but overall I don't think typing helps anyone. Popularity/playstyle I think are the sole deciding factor.

With jigglypuff its just because she's been in so many smash games and plays uniquely... and probably doesn't hurt that she's a simple circle shape to render and animate. Being a Fairy type in x and y is just a bonus.

 

[Shroob]

Not saying that Jigglypuff isn't likely...but being fairy type wont be the reason she returns.

A whole new type of pokemon is a big deal for the pokemon games, but I don't think its a big deal for super smash.

We don't have a rep from every type. When we got steel type in gen 2, we didn't get a steel type rep. Plus if they cut Ivysaur and its not replaced we're losing our only grass type. So typing probably hurts characters like meowth/any normal type of pokemon who visually wont have flashy moves, but overall I don't think typing helps anyone. Popularity/playstyle I think are the sole deciding factor.

With jigglypuff its just because she's been in so many smash games and plays uniquely... and probably doesn't hurt that she's pretty much a simple circle shape to render and animate. Being a Fairy type in x and y is just a bonus.

You forget that Fairy type was a BIG part of 6th gen's promotion. At the moment, Fairy typing is literally the only thing 'promoted' that is not confirmed as a playable character yet. Promoted Kanto starter? Check. Promoted Kalos starter? Check. Mega Evolution promotion? Check.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Mewtwo at least was the first announced mega evolution and one of 2 pokemon (the other, Charizard) to get two mega evolution. He's the fan favorite legendary of the franchise.

Jigglypuff has being in all the past smash games, while still being at least somewhat relevant and popular. If Sakurai thought Jigglypuff was unneeded, she wouldn't have been in Brawl, maybe even Melee, or even the original 64. Jigglypuff by now, while some find unnecessary, earned her slot in Smash. I wish people wouldn't be so negative about Jiggs, though.

edit: Then again this isn't the Jigglypuff or Mewtwo thread, so I might be ranting....

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

You forget that Fairy type was a BIG part of 6th gen's promotion. At the moment, Fairy typing is literally the only thing 'promoted' that is not confirmed as a playable character yet. Promoted Kanto starter? Check. Promoted Kalos starter? Check. Mega Evolution promotion? Check.

It was, and I'm not forgetting. I'm just saying Jigglypuff doesn't need to rely on being a new type to get in. She'd still be getting in if she wasn't a fairy type.

Missing a recent movie/anime promotion. Since I believe Sakurai listed that as a deciding factor.

 

[Halfhead]

I'd like to point out, that you are wrong.

Jigglypuff has no shot? Are you kidding me? Jigglypuff has just as good a shot as Mewtwo. Do you notice something that all these Pokemon characters in Smash 4 have in common? No?

They're all relevant to the 6th generation.

Pikachu is the mascot, and the least relevant, sure, but it is the first Pokemon in game that is actually using voice clips for its cry, instead of electronic gibberish.

Lucario played a small but important role in X and Y and teaches the player the concept of Mega-Evolution.

Charizard is a Kanto starter, which is available in X and Y and you can get early, and has not one, but TWO Mega-Evolutions.

Greninja, is the most popular Kalos starter, really nothing more to it.


So what's missing? What's the one thing that was promoted to hell and back and is yet still not playable in Smash?

Fairy typing.

And who was one of the first Pokemon to be confirmed with it?

Jigglypuff.


I rest my case. Mewtwo has just as good a shot as Jigglypuff. To say Jigglypuff has no chance is horse ****.

Lucario's role is not small. There's a giant statue of him for one thing. Also, Jigglypuff is not even the poster child for the Fairy type. It doesn't even a primary fairy type! It's primarily Normal, secondarily Fairy. I think Sylveon would be a better choice if we're all about Fairy types.

Regardless, I think Fairy stuff is largely irrelevant. We didn't get a Dark or Steel type in Melee. Although it has a bit of weight in favor of Jigglypuff as an excuse to keep it, it wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't a Fairy type choice.

Mewtwo, on the other hand, is actually still extremely important to 6th gen. He's the ulitimate legendary you can catch, the only legendary with mega evolutions, and, with those mega evolutions, the most powerful Pokémon ever with a base stat total of 780, the highest there has ever been. Also, there was that movie less than a year ago.

Jigglypuff isn't special, important, or even popular anymore. If it's in the game, there simply wouldn't be a reason except for that it is a legacy character. Is that important, I suppose so, it hasn't proven to not be yet. We DO, however, only have two examples of legacy characters existing. Not exactly a pattern.

Also, I WANT Jigglypuff in the game. It's my Melee main. I even (no joke) use old Jigglypuff cards as business cards. I write my name and phone number on them and give them out to people at conventions and stuff. I just, unfortunately, don't see it in the cards (no pun intended) this time.

I suppose you're right in it being wrong to say it has NO chance, though. Just a small one.

EDIT: You also say that Mewtwo has no role in XY. Not true, but even if it was, Jigglypuff does? Really?

EDIT 2: You ALSO say that Jigglypuff was the first Pokémon to be announced to have the Fairy typing. Not true either. Sylveon was and even before that, Xerneas, a pure Fairy type, was announced but its type was a secret until Sylveon was announced. Later, Jigglypuff, Marill, and Gardevoir were all concurrently announced to have been retyped.

 

[shinhed-echi]

My hope is that Squirtle and Ivysaur's movesets are fused to make Red's moveset. So we get the best from each, and add more pokemon with similar moves but different types for more variety.

But that's it. It's pretty odd for Sakurai to pick on not 1, or 2, but THREE characters in one swoop. I still hold my 1% hope for Red. I have a gut feeling that if he's back, he won't be in the background anymore. He'll be fighting toe to toe with the rest of the cast by any means necessary.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Mewtwo so does have a role he just a optional pokemon to catch in x and y

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Squirtle and Ivysaur are perfect DLC characters.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Sakurai is far too lazy to make and individually since he doesn't care about us . Sakurai will probably do something as drastic as:

or

 

[lordvaati]

Well, there's always Project M, they're better there anyways.

Project M cut the Trainer as well, and going by his results in the clone engine poll is looking to stay that way.

 

[IsmaR]

+

=

 

[Sovereign]

As I skimmed though, I didn't see anyone mention Treeko.

I've guessed that since a Fire starter was added, then Greninja, a water starter was added, that maybe... just MAYBE there's room for one more starter, being Treeko. He's one of the fairly popular grass starters, but without being able to Mega evolve, chances are a little slim. Is there any other starter grass type that's popular in their last evolution stage?

 

[Halfhead]

I actually love the Turtwig idea! All of the shell/turtle based moves from Squirtle plus grass moves from Ivysaur. It also, gives Smash one rep from each type of starter.

Problem: It would have to compete with Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.

 

[Man Li Gi]

As I skimmed though, I didn't see anyone mention Treeko.

I've guessed that since a Fire starter was added, then Greninja, a water starter was added, that maybe... just MAYBE there's room for one more starter, being Treeko. He's one of the fairly popular grass starters, but without being able to Mega evolve, chances are a little slim. Is there any other starter grass type that's popular in their last evolution stage?

Well this thread is a PT thread, but since the Solo career of Charizard taking off, people were too distraught to think about Treecko. In fact, Sceptile would be cool too, but alas, the mobile reptile would be played somewhat similar to Greninja to some commoners.

 

[Sovereign]

Well this thread is a PT thread, but since the Solo career of Charizard taking off, people were too distraught to think about Treecko. In fact, Sceptile would be cool too, but alas, the mobile reptile would be played somewhat similar to Greninja to some commoners.

What about Shaymin, then? That was a fairly popular grass-type as well, and I'm sure the moveset would be quite unique.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Sakurai is far too lazy to make and individually since he doesn't care about us . Sakurai will probably do something as drastic as:

or

 

[Man Li Gi]

What about Shaymin, then? That was a fairly popular grass-type as well, and I'm sure the moveset would be quite unique.

I like that idea a lot actually, but what purpose would another 4th gen Pokemon serve? I like 4th a lot but for some reason people and Sakurai (yes Sakurai is not a person) seems to favor the nostalgic 1st gen (a total of 5 1st gens across the 3 games, but NO 3rd GEN? Quite arguably the best gen has no playable representation). If Shaymin was in though, the Sky forme to me is the only forme for it to be in as the popularity stemmed (heh) from that form.

 

[IsmaR]

My ideal choice for an obligatory Grass type would be this.

Quadruped, yet still a swordsman.

As Man Li Gi pointed out, though, this is the PT thread. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong about Squirtle, Ivysaur and even PT himself returning. Perhaps the reveal itself could play off the story set in the SSE, with Red having to recapture all of them one by one.