Pokémon Trainer

[Man Li Gi]

My ideal choice for an obligatory Grass type would be this.

Quadruped, yet still a swordsman.

As Man Li Gi pointed out, though, this is the PT thread. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong about Squirtle, Ivysaur and even PT himself returning. Perhaps the reveal itself could play off the story set in the SSE, with Red having to recapture all of them one by one.

My thinking in why transformation was completely removed: the reason transformations took so long is because the data about the transformation/character switch was read directly from the game's disk. In SSBM the transformation was read from the Memory Card. With HD graphics and a team dedicated to balancing the game, having a mid match transformation seems out of place, will be even slower, and probably will entirely skew the MU. Take a look at Squirtle. Does well against KD3, Pika, and Falco, but when you were forced to play as Charizard, the amount of CGs you will get from those main 3 will make this match very hard to win.

 

[IsmaR]

Personally I would have preferred the option to "stay" at one indefintiely rather than getting rid of transformations all together. I don't disagree that separating them to have individual movesets (Down Specials and Final Smashes included) was a good call, but they could have left the option to transform via taunts or something. If only for fun, since transforming in the middle of a battle is rarely a good idea.

 

[schavira]

GRASS. POKÉMON. IS. NOT. HAPPENING.

 

[Shroob]

Lucario's role is not small. There's a giant statue of him for one thing. Also, Jigglypuff is not even the poster child for the Fairy type. It doesn't even a primary fairy type! It's primarily Normal, secondarily Fairy. I think Sylveon would be a better choice if we're all about Fairy types.

Regardless, I think Fairy stuff is largely irrelevant. We didn't get a Dark or Steel type in Melee. Although it has a bit of weight in favor of Jigglypuff as an excuse to keep it, it wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't a Fairy type choice.

Mewtwo, on the other hand, is actually still extremely important to 6th gen. He's the ulitimate legendary you can catch, the only legendary with mega evolutions, and, with those mega evolutions, the most powerful Pokémon ever with a base stat total of 780, the highest there has ever been. Also, there was that movie less than a year ago.

Jigglypuff isn't special, important, or even popular anymore. If it's in the game, there simply wouldn't be a reason except for that it is a legacy character. Is that important, I suppose so, it hasn't proven to not be yet. We DO, however, only have two examples of legacy characters existing. Not exactly a pattern.

Also, I WANT Jigglypuff in the game. It's my Melee main. I even (no joke) use old Jigglypuff cards as business cards. I write my name and phone number on them and give them out to people at conventions and stuff. I just, unfortunately, don't see it in the cards (no pun intended) this time.

I suppose you're right in it being wrong to say it has NO chance, though. Just a small one.

EDIT: You also say that Mewtwo has no role in XY. Not true, but even if it was, Jigglypuff does? Really?

EDIT 2: You ALSO say that Jigglypuff was the first Pokémon to be announced to have the Fairy typing. Not true either. Sylveon was and even before that, Xerneas, a pure Fairy type, was announced but its type was a secret until Sylveon was announced. Later, Jigglypuff, Marill, and Gardevoir were all concurrently announced to have been retyped.

Selective reading. I did NOT say Jigglypuff was 'The First', I said "One" of the first. Do not put words in my mouth.

Dark and Steel typing were nowhere near as heavily promoted as Fairy typing, that you cannot deny. There were trailers, promotions, hell, even the goddamn trading card game added fairy as an actual typing unlike Dragon which was just a cluster**** of various energies.

I also never said Mewtwo was not important, just that I feel it has an equal chance with Jigglypuff.

 

[HatsuneMiku]

I also never said Mewtwo was not important, just that I feel it has an equal chance with Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff over prioritizes Mewtwo in my book, she's a mainstay in Smash at this point. Besides, there are two spots left till there are as many Pokémon reps in SSB4 as there were in Brawl. Jiggs and Mewtwo should do the job.

As for Trainer, as much as i wanted him to come back (because female Trainer is one of my wanted newcomers) i think Sakurai's words from the Direct just slashed him. "Characters who used to change midmatch will no longer change" That was the whole gimmick with Pokémon Trainer, so i don't see what they can do with him now...

 

[hjihjihjihji]

I think Pokemon Trainer will return just in a different form.

The direct confirmed that we are getting Mega Lucario and Mega Charizard. While the direct didn't show how these transformations come about the most likely option is a final smash. I think he didn't show us the transformation sequence because he is saving a little surprise for us.

I think when they get the smash ball a Pokemon Trainer will appear in a very brief animation using the Mega Ring similar to what happens during mega evolution in X&Y. This would be a nice little tribute to PT and allows the appearance of different generations of Pokemon Trainer.

A possibility is:
Charizard -> Pokemon Trainer -> Mega Charizard
Lucario -> Korrina -> Mega Lucario
Mewtwo (if he returns) -> Giovanni (how awesome would that be) -> Mega Mewtwo

 

[pupNapoleon]

Pokemon only chooses popular characters. That seems to be quite literally the most important factor; otherwise, Greninja just would not be playable. In terms of 'balancing the game' or 'being a unique character,' he is not; we have a ninja already, he is just a second ninja. He is a very popular sixth gen rep, and also a starter Pokemon. I'm almost to the point of thinking it might as WELL be Blaziken. And I despise that idea.

Ultimately, maybe PT is not deconfirmed, and Pokemon Trainer will implement his Pokemon in some other way; even brawl dojo listed the transforming characters of veterans as separate characters.
But... I find this unlikely, just hopeful.

If you asked me in a non-Smash context who the 5 most popular Pokémon are, I would say Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario, and probably even Greninja. It just makes sense this way.

Meowth is definitely more popular than a few of those. Kids watch the anime and thusly know him.
Old school fans used to watch the anime.

I like that idea a lot actually, but what purpose would another 4th gen Pokemon serve? I like 4th a lot but for some reason people and Sakurai (yes Sakurai is not a person) seems to favor the nostalgic 1st gen (a total of 5 1st gens across the 3 games, but NO 3rd GEN? Quite arguably the best gen has no playable representation). If Shaymin was in though, the Sky forme to me is the only forme for it to be in as the popularity stemmed (heh) from that form.

Yeah... we COULD see a lot of gen one reps... but shouldn't we? All series here represent the main cast, the mostly original cast; sure, none introduce as many characters as Pokemon, but none are as iconic as gen 1, either.

Also Jigglypuff not likely? There are still people who believe that? Really?
Jigglypuff is a given so I'm not even worried about her. And no, saying that because she was one of the last characters added to Brawl seems like a weak reason to me.

Jigglypuff is not a given. Being an original twelve is something fans made up; it means absolutely nothing.

Dark and Steel typing were nowhere near as heavily promoted as Fairy typing, that you cannot deny. There were trailers, promotions, hell, even the goddamn trading card game added fairy as an actual typing unlike Dragon which was just a cluster**** of various energies.

I also never said Mewtwo was not important, just that I feel it has an equal chance with Jigglypuff.

Steel and Dark were added in gen two. Fairy was added four generations after that, when we thought they had settled. Dark and Steel were still promoted heavily. The internet and social media marketing has also grown in itself much since 2000.

As for Dragon, it is a pokemon card type.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Casualmons only for Smash 4.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Pokemon only chooses popular characters. That seems to be quite literally the most important factor; otherwise, Greninja just would not be playable. In terms of 'balancing the game' or 'being a unique character,' he is not; we have a ninja already, he is just a second ninja. We have multiple swordsman, and they play a different style each (cept TL and Link), so no that argument is moot. He is a very popular sixth gen rep, and also a starter Pokemon. I'm almost to the point of thinking it might as WELL be Blaziken. And I despise that idea. Blaziken is an apt choice for Smash, but I would prefer Sceptile.

Ultimately, maybe PT is not deconfirmed, and Pokemon Trainer will implement his Pokemon in some other way; even brawl dojo listed the transforming characters of veterans as separate characters.
But... I find this unlikely, just hopeful.



Meowth is definitely more popular than a few of those. Kids watch the anime and thusly know him.
Old school fans used to watch the anime.
Meowth is in no way shape or form more popular than any of the listed cept maybe Greninja.



Yeah... we COULD see a lot of gen one reps... but shouldn't we? All series here represent the main cast, the mostly original cast; sure, none introduce as many characters as Pokemon, but none are as iconic as gen 1, either. Opinions. Are you saying that Oddish is somehow more iconic than Tyranitar or Zoroark? Right now I am starting to see the genwunner argument.



Jigglypuff is not a given. Being an original twelve is something fans made up; it means absolutely nothing. Means nothing? I disagree. Anyway, to this day, Jiggs holds quite the popularity in Japan (maybe the chibi eyes). Pink round balls are really popular in Japan, so explains why Kirby and Jiggs are very relevant.

You seem to have sipped from a tall glass of Hatorade. Maybe you should calm down befire trying to go off on all cylinders.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You seem to have sipped from a tall glass of Hatorade. Maybe you should calm down befire trying to go off on all cylinders.

I dont think each of the swordsman particularly demonstrates an entirely new 'gimmick,' which it was pretty much stated all new characters must in this game.
Not to mention, there are hundreds of pokemon reps... really, maybe fifty or so possible ones.
Not a single other game has that going for it.
Most series' dont have two sword reps from, and of the ones that do, they are characters that NEED swords, and pretty much all series' that need to be represented by those characters (short of FE)
You could even state that Ganondorf still has no sword because Link and Ganondorf dont BOTH need one, Link does, but maybe Ganon doesnt simply because Sakurai doesnt want too many of any one character. This is a stretch, but we don't know why he still has no sword.
Far as I can tell, youre hating on me :-P

 

[Man Li Gi]

I dont think each of the swordsman particularly demonstrates an entirely new 'gimmick,' which it was pretty much stated all new characters must in this game.
Not to mention, there are hundreds of pokemon reps... really, maybe fifty or so possible ones.
Not a single other game has that going for it.
Most series' dont have two sword reps from, and of the ones that do, they are characters that NEED swords, and pretty much all series' that need to be represented by those characters (short of FE)
You could even state that Ganondorf still has no sword because Link and Ganondorf dont BOTH need one, Link does, but maybe Ganon doesnt simply because Sakurai doesnt want too many of any one character. This is a stretch, but we don't know why he still has no sword.
Far as I can tell, youre hating on me :-P

Hating on you? Brah I was with earlier in you posts, then you seemed to have wanted to discredit Greninja's inclusion. Different playstyles are not gimmicks. Then if that was the case, Squirtle's playstyle or "gimmick" of an aerial combat can be related to Jiggs if you really wanted to stretch that. Mario has plenty of enemies and bosses could be playable. Ganon does need one sword pal.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I don't understand the mentality that Greninja replaced Squirtle and Ivysaur because its's more popular. It may be used in competitive battles more, sure (obviously, since the lztter two are NFE anyway), but to say it's more popular really seems like a generalization. First of all, Ivysaur is not unpopular. The fact that it was playable in Brawl means that everyone who played Brawl now knows about the character if they didn't already. But besides that, the original trio of starters are among, and always will be among, the most popular Pokémon ever. They're the original 3 Pokémon that kicked off the franchise. Everybody even vaguely familiar with the Pokémon brand knows about them. They may not be able to correctly name all of them, but if I showed a picture of Ivysaur or Squirtle to a current fan of the franchise, a random person in one of my classes, or one of my friends' parents, they'd be able to recognize them. Ivysaur in particular seems to be seen as some "random" Pokémon riding on Charizard's coattails, but let's be honest here. All stages of all three starter families from Generation I are popular, iconic, and recognizable overall. It's not like Ivysaur is an unpopular Pokémon by any means.

If I tried to show a picture of Greninja to most people, they'd have no idea what it is or what it's from. It's popular within the fanbase, but not outside of it. It's why I'm going to miss Squirtle and Ivysaur so much (along with the fact that I mained them): because they're classic, and always will be classic, and together with the trainer, represent the franchise as most of the world sees it, rather than just how the core fans see it. I am a core fan. I've played every generation starting from when the series first came to the States, and I don't see Greninja as a suitable replacement at all. Chalk it up to nostalgia goggles, but I just don't think it represents the franchise and what it's best known for nearly as well. I'm really quite puzzled that the actual character that we play as in the series, the trainer, has been cut. It'd be like cutting Mario. To me, Brawl was the game in which the Pokémon series finally got its "main character" rep.

Anyway, I've been rambling. My point is, Squirtle and Ivysaur are not "unpopular". They're both very popular Pokémon relative to most other monsters in the franchise. Greninja didn't get in because he's more popular than them. It's almost certainly because of "money, dear boy". Greninja is a tie-in to the most recent release in the series, and its inclusion in Smash promotes that. But even now that it's included in Smash, I don't think it'll ever be as popular as Squirtle (seriously, everybody knows Squirtle) or even Ivysaur (most people will at least recognize it as the evolution of the uber-popular Bulbasaur). Greninja is like Blaziken. It has a much larger fanbase than some of the originals, but more people recognize the Kanto starters, overall. That's how I see it.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I don't understand the mentality that Greninja replaced Squirtle and Ivysaur because its's more popular. It may be used in competitive battles more, sure (obviously, since the former two are NFE anyway), but to say it's more popular really seems like a generalization. First of all, Ivysaur is not unpopular. The fact that it was playable in Brawl means that everyone who played Brawl now knows about the character if they didn't already. But besides that, the original trio of starters are among, and always will be among, the most popular Pokémon ever. They're the original 3 Pokémon that kicked off the franchise. Everybody even vaguely familiar with the Pokémon brand knows about them. They may not be able to correctly name all of them, but if I showed a picture of Ivysaur or Squirtle to a current fan of the franchise, a random person in one of my classes, or one of my friends' parents, they'd be able to recognize them. Ivysaur in particular seems to be seen as some "random" Pokémon riding on Charizard's coattails, but let's be honest here. All stages of all three starter families from Generation I are popular, iconic, and recognizable overall. It's not like Ivysaur is an unpopular Pokémon by any means.

If I tried to show a picture of Greninja to most people, they'd have no idea what it is or what it's from. It's popular within the fanbase, but not outside of it. It's why I'm going to miss Squirtle and Ivysaur so much (along with the fact that I mained them): because they're classic, and always will be classic, and together with the trainer, represent the franchise as most of the world sees it, rather than just how the core fans see it. I am a core fan. I've played every generation starting from when the series first came to the States, and I don't see Greninja as a suitable replacement at all. Chalk it up to nostalgia goggles, but I just don't think it represents the franchise and what it's best known for nearly as well. I'm really quite puzzled that the actual character that we play as in the series, the trainer, has been cut. It'd be like cutting Mario. To me, Brawl was the game in which the Pokémon series finally got its "main character" rep.

Anyway, I've been rambling. My point is, Squirtle and Ivysaur are not "unpopular". They're both very popular Pokémon relative to most other monsters in the franchise. Greninja didn't get in because he's more popular than them. It's almost certainly because of "money, dear boy". Greninja is a tie-in to the most recent release in the series, and its inclusion in Smash promotes that. But even now that it's included in Smash, I don't think it'll ever be as popular as Squirtle (seriously, everybody knows Squirtle) or even Ivysaur (most people will at least recognize it as the evolution of the uber-popular Bulbasaur). Greninja is like Blaziken. It has a much larger fanbase than some of the originals, but more people recognize the Kanto starters, overall. That's how I see it.

Anyway, why wouldn't this be a perfect opportunity to show a new Pokemon and make it as popular as the original 3? The anime first created the amazing fanbase for the starters in the first place and since no one really like watching the show because they argue that it's now stupid (it has always been stupid, but our nostalgia shades were just taken off), Smash is an appropo setting for Greninja to show off its skills. You know what Squirtle also has over Greninja that Greninja can never get? TIME! Give it time and people will (as reluctantly or willingly) make it popular. I mean Sceptile was under the foot of Blaziken since inception, then time made Sceptile seem so cool and BA. Of course more people shall recognize Squirtle as Squirts got like 18+ years over Greninja, but give Greninja 18+ years then the tides will turn in favor for Greninja. Also, the cutting of the PT himself was necessary as previously posted:
why transformation was completely removed: the reason transformations took so long is because the data about the transformation/character switch was read directly from the game's disk. In SSBM the transformation was read from the Memory Card. With HD graphics and a team dedicated to balancing the game, having a mid match transformation seems out of place, will be even slower, and probably will entirely skew the MU. Take a look at Squirtle. Does well against KD3, Pika, and Falco, but when you were forced to play as Charizard, the amount of CGs you will get from those main 3 will make this match very hard to win.

 

[pupNapoleon]

[quote="Man Li Gi, post: 16602265, mem
The anime first created the amazing fanbase for the starters in the first place and since no one really like watching the show because they argue that it's now stupid (it has always been stupid, but our nostalgia shades were just taken off).[/quote]

No, the first season, the one with an actual plot arc, character development, and literary devices used, was quite fantastic for an anime. It was when they tried to extend it indefininitely that it became nonsensical and redundant.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don't think 18 years will do much for Greninja.
Squirtle and Ivysaur will forever be the first starters, and that's not going to change. (Heck, they even gave them a 2nd go for starters (3rd if we count Fire Red and Leaf Green) in Pokemon X/Y.

Greninja will have at least 8 more new popular starter characters ahead of him by then. He'll be no different than say..Samurott.


Also, who's to say Pokemon Trainer can't get in as an ACTUAL fighter, and not be limited to the background?
Zelda has a summon-type special move, PT could easily do the same, except with all specials.

YES I know that's highly unlikely seeing how Charizard is Red's iconic Pokemon and trump card. (That'd be like taking out Dark Magician from Yugi's arsenal). But in the manga, Bulbasaur was his starter. And he might get the Squirtle/Bulbasaur/Charmander starter pack, MAYBE along with some others to help him recover, such as Pidgeot.

Anyway, I don't mean to bring back too much hope. But where there's a will, there's a way. If Sakurai considers the Trainer (Red) worthy, iconic, and important to both pokemon and ssb, he'll bring him back. And if he couldn't due to Game Farts, well, at least he tried.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Also, who's to say Pokemon Trainer can't get in as an ACTUAL fighter, and not be limited to the background?
Zelda has a summon-type special move, PT could easily do the same, except with all specials.


YES I know that's highly unlikely seeing how Charizard is Red's iconic Pokemon and trump card. (That'd be like taking out Dark Magician from Yugi's arsenal). But in the manga, Bulbasaur was his starter. And he might get the Squirtle/Bulbasaur/Charmander starter pack, MAYBE along with some others to help him recover, such as Pidgeot.

This is what I have been saying, and would have been a better use of him in the first place (transformation got weaker as a mechanism when it was given to too many people to use similarly).
Charizard isnt even technically confirmed to be separated from RED yet, and his iconicism could not be ignored by Sakurai, who would have to be quite aware of the famed character he was cutting- he introduced P.Trainer as 'the main character of the games finally joining the battle.' Sheik and ZSS were revealed separately in the previous game. Yes, this is a long shot, but seriously having only Pokemon with basic fighting styles fight in the game, even if they play differently, doesnt seem unique to me. I love my idea to have the Pokemon Trainer fight and defend red- the switching doesnt have to be done like it was, it could be move based, or automatic, or... I dunno, they could get creative. But Two starters seems kinda strange to me untied together.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I don't think 18 years will do much for Greninja.
Squirtle and Ivysaur will forever be the first starters, and that's not going to change. (Heck, they even gave them a 2nd go for starters (3rd if we count Fire Red and Leaf Green) in Pokemon X/Y.

Greninja will have at least 8 more new popular starter characters ahead of him by then. He'll be no different than say..Samurott.

@ Man Li Gi This is all I'm really saying with my above post. Greninja did not get in because it's popular. It wasn't even known to the public more than 6 months ago. It was specifically designed to be marketable, and that's why it's in. Saying that it replaced Squirtle and Ivysaur because they're "not as popular" or "irrelevant" is simply incorrect.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Greninja is an effing ninja. He's a fan favorite like Blaziken and Lucario. So incredibly anime.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I don't think 18 years will do much for Greninja.
Squirtle and Ivysaur will forever be the first starters, and that's not going to change. (Heck, they even gave them a 2nd go for starters (3rd if we count Fire Red and Leaf Green) in Pokemon X/Y.
NO one gave 2 flips about Ives until Nostalgia shades were thrown on and SSBB. Time changes people's opinions.
Greninja will have at least 8 more new popular starter characters ahead of him by then. He'll be no different than say..Samurott.


Also, who's to say Pokemon Trainer can't get in as an ACTUAL fighter, and not be limited to the background? Since the circumstances are completely different, you shouldn't be comparing the two. IN Pokemon, most trainers were shown to be sitting in the background giving orders (Chuck, Bruno, and Marshall I believe the only ones to try and show their physical skills. Didn't include the anime as the anime is written for dunderheads (us as kids) and isn't that great of a source). Being summoned to attack like a Phantom Knight sounds silly and shouldn't be implemented.
Zelda has a summon-type special move, PT could easily do the same, except with all specials. That would mean more work for Sakurai and be a slow way to attack if ALL the specials were like that.

YES I know that's highly unlikely seeing how Charizard is Red's iconic Pokemon and trump card. (That'd be like taking out Dark Magician from Yugi's arsenal). But in the manga, Bulbasaur was his starter. And he might get the Squirtle/Bulbasaur/Charmander starter pack, MAYBE along with some others to help him recover, such as Pidgeot.

Anyway, I don't mean to bring back too much hope. But where there's a will, there's a way. If Sakurai considers the Trainer (Red) worthy, iconic, and important to both pokemon and ssb, he'll bring him back. And if he couldn't due to Game Farts, well, at least he tried.

[/quote]

[quote="Man Li Gi, post: 16602265, mem
The anime first created the amazing fanbase for the starters in the first place and since no one really like watching the show because they argue that it's now stupid (it has always been stupid, but our nostalgia shades were just taken off).

No, the first season, the one with an actual plot arc Yes. Its not like Ash goes region to region for a dream that he will never reach. Wait, a motivation to keep the plot moving forward? That is a plot. You cannot really call it an arc as the show keeps going on the same base and never ends. That's like saying Spongebob has a plot arc., character development LOL. That was a good one. Every chracter in the show that had "development" was completely scrapped the next episode. I mean Gary had development... when he chose to give up battling knowing that he was not good enough and had a bloated personality. That was near the start of DP though. , and literary devices used NO. Just stop where you are. Tell me at least one literary device., was quite fantastic for an anime. WTF is this? I DON'T EVEN..... It was when they tried to extend it indefininitely that it became nonsensical and redundant. The show was always redundant. 82 episodes the first season for a show that could have actually been wrapped up in maybe 12-14 episodes. First season is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overrated by many genwunners which you're coming off as. [/quote]
You might want to take off the nostalgia shades.

 

[pupNapoleon]

No, the first season, the one with an actual plot arc

Yes. Its not like Ash goes region to region for a dream that he will never reach. Wait, a motivation to keep the plot moving forward? That is a plot. You cannot really call it an arc as the show keeps going on the same base and never ends. That's like saying Spongebob has a plot arc., character development LOL. That was a good one. Every chracter in the show that had "development" was completely scrapped the next episode. I mean Gary had development... when he chose to give up battling knowing that he was not good enough and had a bloated personality. That was near the start of DP though. , and literary devices used NO. Just stop where you are. Tell me at least one literary device., was quite fantastic for an anime. WTF is this? I DON'T EVEN..... It was when they tried to extend it indefininitely that it became nonsensical and redundant. The show was always redundant. 82 episodes the first season for a show that could have actually been wrapped up in maybe 12-14 episodes. First season is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overrated by many genwunners which you're coming off as.
You might want to take off the nostalgia shades.

I'm watching it from an artistic eye, and clearly you did not read that I said the FIRST SEASON, which is fine because I didnt read you typing the letter 'a' a lot.

 

[IsmaR]

...I think you guys should calm down, especially with the formatting.

 

[pupNapoleon]

...I think you guys should calm down, especially with the formatting.

There was some error in the coding, as "[ /quote]" was in it.

 

[Hammer B]

"Good luck on your own, big buddy!" by Genowhirl910

 

[Autumn ♫]

You know, I'm planning on creating a group of supporters for the return of Pokemon Trainer for Smash 5 whenever Smash 4 comes out. Any support from you guys would greatly be appreciated.

 

[FinalStarmen]

It should be rather interesting to see how requested the original incarnation of Pokemon Trainer will be in Super Smash Brothers 5.

 

[Man Li Gi]

No, the first season, the one with an actual plot arc


I'm watching it from an artistic eye, and clearly you did not read that I said the FIRST SEASON, which is fine because I didnt read you typing the letter 'a' a lot.

Hence why I even brought the subject up. There were better seasons than the first, even the non canon OI were more interesting. The first season really had NONE f the things you mentioned, but were prevalent in later seasons of the show. Some reason, you didn't comprehend that the show actually was good (term used loosely as the show was bad all around) in further seasons, but nostalgic shades seem to cover your eyes son.

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

If you asked me in a non-Smash context who the 5 most popular Pokémon are, I would say Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario, and probably even Greninja. It just makes sense this way.

I'd argue Eevee and its evolutions are among the most popular. Not just because of how many options, or how many games they are featured in, but the sheer amount of merchandise they get. Japan gets another Eevee/eeveelution set of plush/figures like every week.

 

[Burigu]

I don't agree with the idea of the PT fighting imagine him throwing pokeballs (to send the pokemon obviously) for every single attack and then returning them for another one to attack if someone tell me that you can simple have one pokemon out for a lot of time then basically you have a transformation character and it's clear they are not returning, they can make it happen probably actually happening very unlikely there is no sense in doing that concept if the don't show Pokemon Trainer actually sending pokemon and returning them (for someone that argue they can skip the animations for battle).

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I don't agree with the idea of the PT fighting imagine him throwing pokeballs (to send the pokemon obviously) for every single attack and then returning them for another one to attack if someone tell me that you can simple have one pokemon out for a lot of time then basically you have a transformation character and it's clear they are not returning, they can make it happen probably actually happening very unlikely there is no sense in doing that concept if the don't show Pokemon Trainer actually sending pokemon and returning them (for someone that argue they can skip the animations for battle).

Maybe his B attacks are summoning Pokemon while his A attacks are attacking by himself or using items like fishing rods or the bike. I don't think that will actually happen, but I can wish.

 

[Burigu]

Maybe his B attacks are summoning Pokemon while his A attacks are attacking by himself or using items like fishing rods or the bike. I don't think that will actually happen, but I can wish.

Might be a possibility but Villager already has this kind of concept (haven't see him using a rod but he can in the games), also in my opinion Pokemon is more about the pokemon rather than the trainer, almost everybody can tell what a pokemon is but only people really involved in the franchise can tell "ah that's a pokemon trainer" just looking at him or her, pokemon trainer was just a great concept in Brawl finally having the representation of pokemon and trainers, but now that transformations are gone putting him in the fight might be a little harder to understand, he basically lost his concept and won't never be the same with the new mechanics, I agree with you I don't think that will happen

 

[PSIguy89]

you know im still hurt by solo zard....but it was obvious it would have been him over the other 2.....perhaps this means Charizard will be balanced a lot better. the very most im going to allow my self to hope for will be Red atleast getting a trophy to himself
my condolences to all of the other PT mains...sorry guys it doesn't look too good (unless you only mained Charizard)

 

[Raetah]

Honestly it would be nice if you could activate "Red coaching Skin" in any Pokemon, just like any alternate costume, you can pick if Red appears in the background if you want. I said this because, yes, separating charizard makes him more playable, but sometimes SSB community ignore the fact that Red is the real MAIN CHARACTER of Pokemon. He is an iconic character in Nintendo History.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

well I've been thinking about it and while it is a long shot I could see Squirtle and Ivysaur returning if the transformation removal was during the game's production and not prior. In that regards PT's pokemon should have already been completed or been in development before the switch, in which case I don't see Sakurai removing them after work had been put in. I'll admit I am in a sense grasping at straws but while it remains only a slight possibility I have to stay somewhat optimistic.

Plus I find it strange that Sakurai would tease about the removal of one character and remain mute on the fate of two other transformation characters. Then again I realize that looking too deep into Sakurai's mannerisms tends to lend credence to unhealthy manners of thought.

 

[shinhed-echi]

NO one gave 2 flips about Ives until Nostalgia shades were thrown on and SSBB. Time changes people's opinions.

This doesn't bring down my point. NOTHING can change the fact that Ives is from the former starter lines.
Nostalgia doesn't even have anything to do with it.

Since the circumstances are completely different, you shouldn't be comparing the two. IN Pokemon, most trainers were shown to be sitting in the background giving orders (Chuck, Bruno, and Marshall I believe the only ones to try and show their physical skills.

I'm pretty sure I never ever saw TP Zelda (or any Adult Zelda, for that matter) doing anything other than posing with a sword, and being a sub-boss because she was being controlled.
If not, what about this guy then?

Pretty sure he was physically useless in Pikmin, yet in Brawl he has a few physical moves of his own.

That would mean more work for Sakurai and be a slow way to attack if ALL the specials were like that.

The original PokemonTrainer from Brawl had perhaps the MOST effort put into.
(3-Pokemon, the switch gimmick, the fatigue system, and the rock-paper-scissors property)
If anything, MY idea for P.T. is anything but "more work". Heck, we don't even know if it's already somehow implemented, to start calling it "more work".

 

[Morbi]

you know im still hurt by solo zard....but it was obvious it would have been him over the other 2.....perhaps this means Charizard will be balanced a lot better. the very most im going to allow my self to hope for will be Red atleast getting a trophy to himself
my condolences to all of the other PT mains...sorry guys it doesn't look too good (unless you only mained Charizard)

I am ecstatic at the prospect of solo Charizard! Pokemon Trainer was the only character that I thought to be an obvious cut (aside from Snake). So it should be interesting to see what they do with Charizard to mitigate the loss of his companions. I might even be able to finally main him (outside of Project M).

 

[Man Li Gi]

This doesn't bring down my point. NOTHING can change the fact that Ives is from the former starter lines.
Nostalgia doesn't even have anything to do with it.
No one was claiming that Ives is not of the original breed, but for some reason you seem to be missing the point being assessed: Ives popularity only started from Nostalgia and SSBB. Before SSBB Charizard had a fanbase not solely derived from nostalgia, Squirtle/Blastoise had one while Ives just existed just to exist.


I'm pretty sure I never ever saw TP Zelda (or any Adult Zelda, for that matter) doing anything other than posing with a sword, and being a sub-boss because she was being controlled. Zelda is not based off TP (her looks yes, but her moves are Link's spells form OoT)
If not, what about this guy then?

Pretty sure he was physically useless in Pikmin, yet in Brawl he has a few physical moves of his own. Debatable.


The original PokemonTrainer from Brawl had perhaps the MOST effort put into.
(3-Pokemon, the switch gimmick, the fatigue system, and the rock-paper-scissors property) All 3 were seen as a bane to PT's gameplay and ineffective.
If anything, MY idea for P.T. is anything but "more work". Heck, we don't even know if it's already somehow implemented, to start calling it "more work". NO transformation, SoloZard....Yes PT is totally going to be integrated into the game.

 

[shinhed-echi]

You seem to be putting words in my mouth for no reason.

1.) Never said anything about Ivysaur's popularity. You brought that up yourself when it wasn't needed.
2.) Not saying solo P.T. will get in, I say he still COULD. Has enough to draw from to make it solo. Heck, popularity alone.
3.) Not disagreeing with the bad gimmicks he was attatched to. Just saying they were more work, that's all. And compared to that, if they were to re-make P.T. it wouldn't prove to be half as much work as Brawl's since Sakurai would only need to focus on ONE moveset, and possibly ONE gimmick.

4.) There's still plenty other "can't fight" counters that have been used for a long time. Take Captain Falcon, Fox, Mr.G&W, Rosalina, Villager, for example, and the list goes on and on and on and on.

 

[Man Li Gi]

You seem to be putting words in my mouth for no reason.

1.) Never said anything about Ivysaur's popularity. You brought that up yourself when it wasn't needed.
2.) Not saying solo P.T. will get in, I say he still COULD. Has enough to draw from to make it solo. Heck, popularity alone.
3.) Not disagreeing with the bad gimmicks he was attatched to. Just saying they were more work, that's all. And compared to that, if they were to re-make P.T. it wouldn't prove to be half as much work as Brawl's since Sakurai would only need to focus on ONE moveset, and possibly ONE gimmick.

4.) There's still plenty other "can't fight" counters that have been used for a long time. Take Captain Falcon, Fox, Mr.G&W, Rosalina, Villager, for example, and the list goes on and on and on and on.

Nothing I've said has been fabricated or pulled from thin air. I simply retorted to the original argument. CF is the only legitimate character that falls into the can't fight category because each of those characters have a multitude of resources in their games to use in their moveset. If a trainer has to be in though:

 

[Smaugfan]

Well this thread is an interesting read...

but if there are only one possibility for a Pokemon making it in, it is either Jigglypuff or Mewtwo. Jiggz though a "legacy" Smash character seems likely, but keep in mind how Sakurai toned down Jiggz in Brawl in comparison to Melee. In this game of fast hitters, how many opponents are going to get trapped up by "sing" in this game? How many times can roll out be used in a surprising way when so many characters have been revealed to have great combo ability or ways to block such an attack? Rest is a good move, but it is tricky to get it just right sometimes. Back airs by Jiggz are floaty at times. Unless Sakurai just loves Jiggz to return her and also improves and repairs what he did from Brawl, does Jiggly stand a good competitive chance in this new game?

Mewtwo probably is the better bet to get in, but we will have to see. We could have had more if it were not for the inclusion of Wii Fit Trainer.

Sad to see that Ivy and Squirtle get cut. Ivy's recovery looks best as a tether. It would be weird to imagine any other style of recovery for it. Squirtle is a good one to return, but like it was said before, there probably won't be another water type.

As for Red being in the game, I doubt that a lot. The reason being is that it takes too much time to toss a Pokeball and have the Pokemon appear to start an attack. Most players would have evaded and attacked the trainer some way. Red just would be nothing without player controllable Pokemon like in Brawl.

 

[Mo433]

A lot of you guys are jumping the gun. Sakurai could just simply add a new move to Ivy and Squirtle. Just because they showed Charizard first it doesn't mean that the other two are gone.