- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,479
I have infinitely more respect for you than the thousands of others who are all talk.
And wow... Wavedashing not fitting the "spirit of the game" makes it a glitch. WOW.
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Points of clarification about Casual Vs. Competitive that everyone needs to read(WOP)
- Thread starter The Hypnotist
- Start date
And wow... Wavedashing not fitting the "spirit of the game" makes it a glitch. WOW.
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
sometimes I think the casuals take this game more seriously than they think us advanced players take it..
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
i'd say you're right, in a way. a lot of advanced players really take it seriously in that they'll do anything to win, but i take it seriously more in the way that you would take a piece of art or literature seriously.
i can't speak for everyone though...to be sure, some people don't like wavedashing because they can't do it or they get beaten by it all the time.
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
I'm pretty sure that's subjective. what I was referring to, though, was that they take it seriously to the point where they think it should be played a certain way.
not saying that you can truly take the game seriously in either of these ways, but according to their definition, they fit their own category more than the advanced.
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
Eh, I don't want to say that the game SHOULD be played my way. It's just how I prefer it. I'm not going to protest and demand that people stop wavedashing, but if I was in a friendly match with someone, I'd take it as a kindness if they didn't wavedash for the match.
Not at all. I'm still confused as to why you wouldn't accept Mario being able to wavedash, but not as much as Luigi (canon ftw; manuals keep telling me that Luigi jumps higher but has lower traction), yet you're fine with edgeteching, which would involve Mario getting REAMED by Marth's sword, and instead of flying off at 40 miles an hour, simply flashing yellow and performing a walljump.
Teching takes timing and skill, but less than you might think. You have a 20 frame window. That's a whole third of a second to press R before you think your opponent might decide to try to destroy you with an edgeguarding attack. Meanwhile, wavedashing requires that you jump and then press L/R in the time of between 1/15 of a second and 3/20 of a second, depending on character.
L-Canceling doesn't even make sense at all. You press L, R, or Z within 1/10 of a second to have exactly half of the lag frames shaved off your landing?
But hey, this is all pointless ado about wavedashing. We all know that wavelanding is where it's really at. ^_^
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
maybe i'm still confused about what teching is then...would you mind explaining it again? sorry i'm such a novice...
as a side note, L canceling has never made sense to me either, but it isn't really distracting in the same way that wavedashing is. It's kinda like hurrying to scramble back to your feet faster.
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
But it doesn't make sense when Mario or Falco techs and does a back flip and makes it back on stage. And yes the advanced how to play videos are on youtube.
There's three parts, here's part 1. If you actually watch this you'll see how much of this game you are missing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
autobozooty watch the teching video again and see how Falco keeps surviving.
I think that if you actually knew how to wavedash you wouldn't have a problem with it. And I think you might want to try to play with ATs, because I used to play like you and now I have a lot more fun. Besides, if you play your way whenever you play us online it will be worse than when you play cruel melee. And you wouldn't want that.
I think that if you actually knew how to wavedash you wouldn't have a problem with it. And I think you might want to try to play with ATs, because I used to play like you and now I have a lot more fun. Besides, if you play your way whenever you play us online it will be worse than when you play cruel melee. And you wouldn't want that.
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
Oooh now I understand.
Well I think that this WOULD be a lot cooler if it was actually supposed to be in the game. (I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and assume it's a glitch/exploit)
What would be cool i think would be if that was a special technique that was actually purposely put into the game. it's a very interesting concept and it would be interesting to see it fledged out a little bit. it's like scrambling to grab on to something as you go flying off.
if this technique works consistantly every single time, i would have a problem with it. However, a skilled player would use their forward smash and aim it up slightly so that you wouldn't be able to grab the ledge, right?
I'm not opposed to all advanced techniques. there's a few that i'd really love to learn, shuffling being number one on the list. i might want to try to learn to tech also, but i don't want to use a move that's generally considered cheap.
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
what on Earth makes you think it isn't supposed to be in?
DI's been here since SSB.
they even mention tech in the manual/how to play! come on, man.
I'd also like for you to give me an example of what's cheap.
It's a little more complicated than that. Teching was programmed into the game - it's a specific animation when you press R or L right before hitting the ground, wall, or ceiling; it's as intentional as L-Canceling is - and SDI was programmed into the game, allowing you to "teleport" a small distance whenever you get hit. So all you'd need is good timing and regardless of what hit you, you'd be on the ground and able to tech.
Sliq
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 4,871
This is why everyone hates casual players.
Also, it should be noted that I didn't read any part of your post after that, because I already have cancer.
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
It looks a little messed up, that's why i thought it was a glitch or exploit. would you all mind pointing your guns somewhere else for christ's sake? you say this is why everyone hates casual players. this also is why i hate all of you.
i guess a move i would consider cheap would be caping people as they come back onto the stage, but even that isn't TOO bad. i'd go with whatever the majority wants on that move.
i guess a move i would consider cheap would be caping people as they come back onto the stage, but even that isn't TOO bad. i'd go with whatever the majority wants on that move.
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
what's it matter? it's technically fair. screw the majority.
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
And that right there is the difference between you and me.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
Then I guess Fox's shine must be uber cheap.
Shine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cape
Shine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cape
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
Neither the shine nor the cape are cheap moves inherently, but everything can be overused to the point where it's just not fun to play anymore. but it seems like all anyone here cares about is winning so it's hard to argue points like honor, fairness, and fun.
Usually people who spam the same move will eventually get their comeuppance, but if it works, it works.
brawlmaniac
Smash Lord
Great thread man. I completely agree with you.
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
if you're talking about honor and fairness, I wonder if you play with items or not.
I'd also like to know why the shine in any way is dishonorable to you.
I'd also like to know why the shine in any way is dishonorable to you.
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
sometimes i play with items, sometimes i don't. it depends on my mood. usually if i have items on i'll be doing a 1v1v1v1 match or just goofing around, but when i'm trying to practice and get better or learn a new skill i'll turn items off.
and like i said, the shine isn't unfair by itself, but like any move, it can be spammed and it really ruins the match.
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
tell me in what ways you hate it being spammed.
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
I don't hate you, I really don't, don't get the wrong idea, infact I'm looking forward to playing you one day. You can tech the cape (I think) besides, it's just Mario, it's not like Fox has the cape.
If you were to play me in a match, there would be NOTHING that is tourney legal that you could just SPAM and beat me with.
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
are you kidding me?
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
Seriously, we're quite curious.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
Come to think of it, the shine is nothing compared to wobbling, wobbling is t3h ****.
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
you guys seriously don't think that spamming is annoying? you've never had a nasty tactic used over and over on you? you don't think that that's just the worst thing in the world?
if not then, well...gosh. maybe i'm more of a freak than i thought.
if not then, well...gosh. maybe i'm more of a freak than i thought.
GhostAnime
Smash Ace
it can be annoying, but it can also be predictable.
Tactics used over and over I can predict and exploit their weaknesses. It gets not fun if they keep doing it because then I'm just winning the same way over and over... kinda like playing against a CPU. But there's nothing unstoppable. Even the Wobbles needs both ICs to be alive.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Nah, I think we are all in agreement that it is lame, but the fact is it isn't game breaking. We have learned to fight against these lame things over time and developed counter strategies. If someone tried to spam Marth's fsmash over and over on me he'd get *****. If someone played Fox and only hung by the edge and went for gimp KOs they'd get *****. If a Link player abused his up B, he'd be *****.
You aren't weird for disliking them, but the thing is that there is no reason to stop doing something if it works if your goal is to win.
Sliq
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 4,871
Last time I checked, the game doesn't award the victor as the person who played the fairest or more honorable.
I hope autobzooty's internet explodes so he can't post all the **** that noobs have reposted over and over and over again since the games release 6 years ago.
lol thats cheap i play a videogame using honor lol
autobzooty is like a samurai, fighting with his honor. What ever happened to those guys?
Oh right, people got guns and mowed them down. But thats ok, because when the died, they died honorably. Of course, they had a very small margin of victory, but it is much better to die honorably than to win and possible reach your goal. Wait, no it isn't.
I hope autobzooty's internet explodes so he can't post all the **** that noobs have reposted over and over and over again since the games release 6 years ago.
lol thats cheap i play a videogame using honor lol
autobzooty is like a samurai, fighting with his honor. What ever happened to those guys?
Oh right, people got guns and mowed them down. But thats ok, because when the died, they died honorably. Of course, they had a very small margin of victory, but it is much better to die honorably than to win and possible reach your goal. Wait, no it isn't.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Guys, it's alright to try and explain things to autobzooty, but really... if you read through his posts he isn't, or at least wasn't, defaming the tournament community just that he has personal beefs with it. I know that typically things get crazy and borderline flametastic from time to time, but this shouldn't be one of those times. Avoid making personal attacks and flames please. He's being much more open minded about this than most, and while he may not agree with everything at least he is beginning to understand where we are coming from.
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
Please name some examples, I'm honestly curious of what you consdier annoying.
As far as the Wobbling being unfair arguement I disagree, Shine Spiking Nana is "unfair".
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Wobbling isn't broken, and it really isn't that bad. It's something that you have to learn how to get around. It's lame, but it's even lamer that some big name tournaments actually have banned it.
LOL, Nana is sooooo easy to get rid of. It's not even hard. If people actually knew how to effectively fight the IC's they wouldn't ***** so hard about wobbling.
flyinfilipino
Smash Master
For the sake of me understanding what everyone's talking about, what's 'wobbling'?
Yeah, wobbling isnt that bad. I mean, my friend was able to get out of it last night after I had about 110% so obviously its not broken or anything >_> j/k
Wobbling is actually very difficult and I've heard IC players actually prefer not trying to do it as there are usually better options. And its not exactly game breaking as all you really have to do is hit Nana and she dies and then you dont have to worry about wobbling anymore.
Edit: Stop being such a douche Sliq, your the reason casuals think competitive players are all elitists. gb2 /b/
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
I guess I don't have many examples of cheap tactics in smash bros. -- a side effect of only playing cpus. I guess the reason that I see it as a problem is that the only time I had a really good intense fight with a human in smash bros., he was really cheap. i told the story already but i'll say it again if you missed it.
i was playing a kid on hyrule temple, he used fox and I used mario in a five stock match. he insisted that we have a free-for-all with one more computer opponent, so we threw in a level 9 marth.
he spent the entire match running away from me and left me and marth to fight. i had only 3 lives left by the time marth was out of the game and it was his turn to start fighting me. i had a pretty bad disadvantage as we were both at about the same skill level.
in the end i managed to kill him. i had like 200% damage and one life left, but i did win the match. it felt **** good to put that guy in his place, but if i played him much longer after that i would have gone crazy with frustration. my guess is that people on smash boards aren't THAT cheap so i could probably have some fun matches in brawl anyways, but still. i'm not good enough at the game to have an instant counter strategy to any cheap tactic.
the only reason i beat that guy is because i have good reflexes and good instincts, and those are the strengths i play in smash.
i was playing a kid on hyrule temple, he used fox and I used mario in a five stock match. he insisted that we have a free-for-all with one more computer opponent, so we threw in a level 9 marth.
he spent the entire match running away from me and left me and marth to fight. i had only 3 lives left by the time marth was out of the game and it was his turn to start fighting me. i had a pretty bad disadvantage as we were both at about the same skill level.
in the end i managed to kill him. i had like 200% damage and one life left, but i did win the match. it felt **** good to put that guy in his place, but if i played him much longer after that i would have gone crazy with frustration. my guess is that people on smash boards aren't THAT cheap so i could probably have some fun matches in brawl anyways, but still. i'm not good enough at the game to have an instant counter strategy to any cheap tactic.
the only reason i beat that guy is because i have good reflexes and good instincts, and those are the strengths i play in smash.
It's an infinite combo in which Popo grabs the player and does the grab attack while Nana continuously hits the player in alternate rhythm to prevent the player from being able to struggle out, ever.