PM Info Thread

[JOE!]

Life Johns, but for the moment I have a spreadsheet with numerical data about a good 20 stages;

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LJ2IRbVIcEYajsqt95JMQOPKKpsqfDzo5ZgfJvbdlg4/edit?usp=sharing

 

[JOE!]

This has now become the:

INFO THREAD​

Here is a central hub of all the info bits you could want for PM such as Stage Data, Character Roll Infographics, Frame Data listings and more!


Keep me posted whenever a new update comes along that could be listed here as an archive!

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Is there a reason those 4 frame data threads are the only ones? Or just haven't added the rest yet.

Idk if this is the right place to ask, but how would the best way to analyze a characters dash dances? I think that would be incredibly useful for alot of people. Think along the lines of what Ripple and co did with tech rolls. I was experimenting a bit, but I realized I do not have the dedication to do it and wasn't sure how to do it exactly so I chickened out. Might do a proof of concept and post here if I stop being lazy.

 

[Bazkip]

JOE! How do you not have this here already https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Yjp0AT4wJba-1ZJ284__Ts1A6NTVKx3y8fnfO9AWwVg/

TheGravyTrain The above has info on dash dances

 

[JOE!]

I didnt know that existed Bazkip , adding tho ~

TheGravyTrain , yeah I just havent added them all yet.

All frame data threads are linked

 

[Player -0]

Something that would be a pain to test/get but might be cool is ledge grab ranges. Normally and out of Up B (probably mainly out of Up B).

Ripple

Just throwing out ideas.

 

[Ripple]

Ledge grab ranges are given in debug mode. Why would I do those?

 

[Cubelarooso]

Here's some stage data.
And some roll data (only includes final distance from TopN to TopN).
And some CC data (I only did Pikachu and Luigi, but it could be used as a template for other characters, which I might do myself if there's any demand).

 

[Player -0]

Ledge grab ranges are given in debug mode. Why would I do those?

You could say the same thing for rolls and stuff (unless I'm missing something).

Would just be another online reference.

Idk, it's your/random person's time. You choose if worth

 

[TheGravyTrain]

I was actually referring to an analysis with pictures akin to what Ripple did. Sure the numbers are helpful, but (for example) looking at that data alone makes it seem that DK has a top 5 dash dance, when in reality it is much lower than that because the space he vacates is so small on his dash back (he flails his feet behind him). Since dash dancing is supposed to move you forward while still being able to evade attacks by dashing back, this drawback for DK significantly reduces the usefulness of his DD. But if you just look at the number of frame of initial dash, the distance measured the way it was, the speed, etc, you lose that. What I had in mind was using lines like Ripple's pictures had, measuring relevant data (total distance, vulnerable hurtboxes, how much you vacate your hurtbox, etc) in a visual form so it is easier to interpret and more useful.

 

[Saproling]

If you need some ivy data you can hit me up.

 

[ignatowski]

Hey I play melee and are a fox user im thinking about going to my first pm event and wondering if i would i be alright or not never having played pm before, is it or fox much different? thanks

 

[Player -0]

You can play Fox essentially the same. This isn't really the right place to ask that though.


Also Ripple is a thing with tether forced reel ins.
http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-ledge-cancel-forced-reel-in-lag-on-all-tethers.423888/

 

[nimigoha]

This stuff needs to get separated on a character-by-character basis and put on PMUnderground in the guides section.

Really hope that section gets absolutely chock-full of resources, I think that each character has more than enough information for there to warrant separate character pages rather than putting everything under headings.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Quick suggestion, why are the spoilers per character necessary. It would be similar in length and require less clicks if the link was below the name with no spoiler.

*edit* For clarity, this is the frame data.

 

[JOE!]

Quick suggestion, why are the spoilers per character necessary. It would be similar in length and require less clicks if the link was below the name with no spoiler.

*edit* For clarity, this is the frame data.

I made it that way for "foundation", in case more and more character-specific things popped up I could put each into their "folder".

 

[JOE!]

Normal and Lcanceled landing lags for all aerials, as well as comparison vs Normal 915f) and Fast (10f) reaction times.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N6FN8xUuzTEyZx6_mLOiXtI0mChf3CvrI70w_HKJLOg/edit#gid=0

 

[Player -0]

Remembered some stuff that could be added.

- Meteor cancel window.
- How jab reset works (it's different than Melee). I mean how it's activated/happens.
- Differences in dashing from Melee -> Project M.
- other stuff I forgot. Maybe shield drop stuff. I remember someone mentioning thee's an angle it always shield drops no matter how fast you do it.

 

[nimigoha]

You can shield drop as fast as you want by slamming the perfect diagonal. It's pretty easy.

 

[Soft Serve]

You can shield drop as fast as you want by slamming the perfect diagonal. It's pretty easy.

That's very controller dependent.

 

[nimigoha]

I figured it would be. I've seen posts about the stick differences.

For reference I have the white Japanese Wii model with the 9ft cord. Which for the record also has the best Z button IMO. Very clicky in my experience, my friend has one too. The Smash 4 controllers went back to the mushy Z button.

 

[Orlando gutierrez]

Hey everyone I recently started playing PM and I noticed game play isn't as fast as the videos I've seen here for PM.

Are each version of PM faster than the others?

 

[Player -0]

If you're just getting into the game then it's very unlikely you'll be playing "as fast" as people on streams. This can be magnified by the fact that you're possibly not playing vs. other people that are also moving "quickly." There's also the fact that you're actually controlling the character.

In short, no. Project M has never really made the game objectively "faster" across the board.

I'm not sure how much you know about Melee/Project M so I'm not sure how much to explain. Simply put there are techniques such as "wavedashing/wavelanding" and "dash dancing" that allow for faster/less committal movement. "L-Cancelling" halves an aerials "land lag" which lets you start moving more quickly.

Combining these techniques along with a few others lets you move quickly. Also there are certain characters that are "faster" than others in different ways but that's an easy observation to make.

 

[Orlando gutierrez]

If you're just getting into the game then it's very unlikely you'll be playing "as fast" as people on streams. This can be magnified by the fact that you're possibly not playing vs. other people that are also moving "quickly." There's also the fact that you're actually controlling the character.

In short, no. Project M has never really made the game objectively "faster" across the board.

I'm not sure how much you know about Melee/Project M so I'm not sure how much to explain. Simply put there are techniques such as "wavedashing/wavelanding" and "dash dancing" that allow for faster/less committal movement. "L-Cancelling" halves an aerials "land lag" which lets you start moving more quickly.

Combining these techniques along with a few others lets you move quickly. Also there are certain characters that are "faster" than others in different ways but that's an easy observation to make.

I've played melee for years and project M for a couple months. I only play against friends and I've never seen anybody play that fast like in the live streams.

Where can I go to learn about wavedash, and all that other mumble jumble you said? Lol

Also I noticed marth players upthrow a player and grab then again over and over again without letting the other player move.

But when I up throw in project M they get thrown much higher and doesn't give me enough time to grab them again...

I don't get it...

 

[nimigoha]

I've played melee for years and project M for a couple months. I only play against friends and I've never seen anybody play that fast like in the live streams.

Where can I go to learn about wavedash, and all that other mumble jumble you said? Lol

Also I noticed marth players upthrow a player and grab then again over and over again without letting the other player move.

But when I up throw in project M they get thrown much higher and doesn't give me enough time to grab them again...

I don't get it...

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/1whpb8/guide_project_m_techniques/ Should have every universal technique, minus a few really really advanced ones that are still being discovered.

Watch the opponent's character and %. Marth can typically only Uthrow chain grab Fox, Falco, and Wolf from around 0-28% give or take. Other characters he can Uthrow to Utilt at low percents.

 

[Orlando gutierrez]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/1whpb8/guide_project_m_techniques/ Should have every universal technique, minus a few really really advanced ones that are still being discovered.

Watch the opponent's character and %. Marth can typically only Uthrow chain grab Fox, Falco, and Wolf from around 0-28% give or take. Other characters he can Uthrow to Utilt at low percents.

Thank you! I'll take a look in a bit..

I put training mode and uthrow at 0% and It was still too high for me to chain it..

Is there a problem with my PM version?

 

[nimigoha]

Thank you! I'll take a look in a bit..

I put training mode and uthrow at 0% and It was still too high for me to chain it..

Is there a problem with my PM version?

Are you Marth and Uthrowing a spacie?

 

[Player -0]

As nimigoha mentioned there's a difference in character attributes.

Some characters like Fox or Falco (often referred to as "spacies") naturally fall fast. Other characters like Kirby and Jigglypuff don't naturally fall fast. This "falling speed" makes it so attacks that send the opponent up don't send up as much. So if you threw a "Fox" in the air he wouldn't go up as far as a "Jigglypuff."

There's another character attribute called weight but it's completely separate from "fall speed" and you won't have to worry about it for the most part.


For the most part, unless your game starts glitching out with sounds/textures, if you downloaded Project M 3.6 Full then there shouldn't be a problem with your version of the game. Don't worry about having the wrong version.

Of course you have to watch out for the dates on the videos. Videos in 2014 or 2015 will likely be outdated and the characters may be different. Just assume you can do anything you see in the video and if you recreated the events fairly similarly but the results are different that would be a good time to ask.

 

[Orlando gutierrez]

As nimigoha mentioned there's a difference in character attributes.

Some characters like Fox or Falco (often referred to as "spacies") naturally fall fast. Other characters like Kirby and Jigglypuff don't naturally fall fast. This "falling speed" makes it so attacks that send the opponent up don't send up as much. So if you threw a "Fox" in the air he wouldn't go up as far as a "Jigglypuff."

There's another character attribute called weight but it's completely separate from "fall speed" and you won't have to worry about it for the most part.


For the most part, unless your game starts glitching out with sounds/textures, if you downloaded Project M 3.6 Full then there shouldn't be a problem with your version of the game. Don't worry about having the wrong version.

Of course you have to watch out for the dates on the videos. Videos in 2014 or 2015 will likely be outdated and the characters may be different. Just assume you can do anything you see in the video and if you recreated the events fairly similarly but the results are different that would be a good time to ask.

Wow thanks guys for helping me out, I greatly appreciate it.

I was uthrowing link and then bowser.

I don't have version 3.6 btw.. I believe it's the version before 3.6

It was given to me by a friend. Idk how to get 3.6

But thanks for the definition of spacies cuz I didn't know what that was lol.

I guess there's a lot more for me to learn.

How do you guys know so much?!
Sometimes I read posts and I'm like what the heck they talking about?? Lol

 

[Player -0]

Project M 3.6 Full and any other version can be found through this thread (<-- click it)

If it's the version before 3.6 Full it's likely 3.6b (or beta). It could also be 3.5 but it doesn't really matter.


To be honest as long as you're not planning on attending events or anything you can play with your current version as to not mess up anything. Better for it to work and it be outdated than it not to work. If you know how downloading it works then feel free though.

You don't have to get into any complicated techniques to just play. You can always talk to your friend and see if they'll help. If you're learning by yourself just take a little bit of time to understand a single technique and how it's used and then move on.

 

[Orlando gutierrez]

Project M 3.6 Full and any other version can be found through this thread (<-- click it)

If it's the version before 3.6 Full it's likely 3.6b (or beta). It could also be 3.5 but it doesn't really matter.


To be honest as long as you're not planning on attending events or anything you can play with your current version as to not mess up anything. Better for it to work and it be outdated than it not to work. If you know how downloading it works then feel free though.

You don't have to get into any complicated techniques to just play. You can always talk to your friend and see if they'll help. If you're learning by yourself just take a little bit of time to understand a single technique and how it's used and then move on.

You make a good point... ok I will do that

Thanks alot for all the advice!

 

[Bazkip]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/4d25iy/data_dump_every_characters_dropcancel_aerial/

 

[nimigoha]

JOE! are you still compiling that Knockback Calculator with KB and Angles for every move? I think a way to select a character's move and have the KB/Damage/Angle automatically fill itself in would be incredible.

Also for the v1.52 version, do you know if the "Victim Starting Y Position" is the center of their body, or the bottom of their body, or what? My testing seems to indicate center.

 

[JOE!]

I'm slowly but surely working towards it. 42~ characters each with like... 30 moves to cover takes some time when I work full time

As for Y pos, I believe it is the bottom of the model as "0" should have them on the ground.

 

[nimigoha]

Hmm. I'm wondering since in game a move killed Mario at 93% with no DI, but when I used the calculator it said he was still alive, with Y pos being 0. I increased the Y pos up to 4, which on the Battlefield image was almost exactly the center of the Mario image, and the calculator corroborated the in-game kill.

 

[Orange Chris]

I'm slowly but surely working towards it. 42~ characters each with like... 30 moves to cover takes some time when I work full time

Anything we can do to help?

 

[Life]

There's a contradiction in the stagelist spreadsheets. JOE's spreadsheet says WL is narrower than YS, while the other two say it's a little wider. (Talking about the stage itself, not the blast zones. Roughly 108 vs 116.)

Can someone tell me what the deal is? Was it changed when WL was released or something?

 

[ilysm]

I've been fiending after some info on input hierarchy in Project M. Anybody have anything like that?

 

[Player -0]

what do you mean by that?

like, Player 1 -> Player 4 - Priority on Player 1 then so forth on grabs

and

Player 4 -> Player 1 - Priority on Player 4 not taking knockback while in a grab?

 

[ilysm]

No, as in when two or more inputs are done on one controller at the same time, what overrides what? This is an example of what I'm talking about, but it's for Melee. Has it changed in PM?