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PM Info Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JOE!, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. JOE!

    JOE!
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    [​IMG]
    INFO THREAD

    Here is a central hub of all the info bits you could want for PM such as Stage Data, Character Roll Infographics, Frame Data listings and more!


    MECHANICS INFORMATION

    STAGE INFORMATION
    3.6 Boundary Data

    Stage Comparison App (Outdated)
    Hello all, I was bored today and this was rattling around in my head so I decided to go through and try and get a visual guide to stage sizes and blast-zones to better help the community.

    Simply put, I've been hearing a lot of talk about stage lists and this and that and how X stage has a higher ceiling than Y and so on. To put those talks to rest and help us all better understand the stages I've made easy to see visuals of each stage and their boundaries.

    To keep things accurate I took the points of D0 and D1, the corners of the death boundaries in BrawlBox, and used those to figure out the exact units Up/Down/Left/Right each border is from the center of each stage's floor. Once I had those measurements, I created a grid using a 10x10 unit square, and went on to scale and align each stage. All the stages you'll see are accurate, aligned and to scale for when your character stands on their main floors.

    Below are 16 stages ordered Smallest to Largest. Size is determined by overall Blast Zone distances by calculating the area between the top, bottom and sides. For example, WarioWare actually has marginally smaller Side Blast Zones than Yoshi's Story, but a much deeper floor to the point of influencing meteor survival and making it "bigger" than YS area wise.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The stage guide is now interactive! Download the Zip file from the link below, place the file on your desktop, double-click the "StageWeb.html" file, and it will open up in your browser!

    INTERACTIVE STAGE GUIDE v1.1

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    To Do:
    Implement charts in this main thread.

    GENERAL CHARACTER INFORMATION
    3.6 Character Attributes

    Character Attributes Ranked ~~~~~~~ @Orange Chris

    Grab Ranges (Incomplete) ~~~~~~~ @Magus

    Tech/Get Up Rolls ~~~~~~~ @Ripple

    Back/Forward Rolls ~~~~~~~ @Ripple

    Defense Option Frame Data ~~~~~~~ @DelanHaar6

    Roll Spreadsheet ~~~~~~~ @Cubelarooso

    Waveland Frame Data ~~~~~~~ @InfinityCollision

    All Character Landing Lags ~~~~~~~ @JOE!
    Normal and Lcanceled landing lags for all aerials, as well as comparison vs Normal 915f) and Fast (10f) reaction times.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N6FN8xUuzTEyZx6_mLOiXtI0mChf3CvrI70w_HKJLOg/edit#gid=0


    SPECIFIC CHARACTER INFORMATION
    Bowser Frame Data

    Captain Falcon Frame Data

    Charizard Frame Data

    Diddy Kong Frame Data
    He needs a thread for 3.6!

    Donkey Kong Frame Data
    NOTE: This is from 3.02, but I don't think his frame data has changed since.

    http://smashboards.com/threads/donkey-kong-frame-data-3-02.350206/

    Falco Frame Data

    Fox Frame Data

    Game & Watch Frame Data

    Ganondorf Frame Data

    Ice Climbers Frame Data

    Ike Frame Data
    NOTE: This is from 3.02, but I don't think his frame data has changed since.

    http://smashboards.com/threads/ike-frame-data-3-02.350437/

    Ivysaur Frame Data

    Jigglypuff Frame Data

    King DeDeDe Frame Data

    Kirby Frame Data

    Link Frame Data

    Lucario Frame Data

    Lucas Frame Data

    Luigi Frame Data

    Mario Frame Data

    Marth Frame Data

    Meta Knight Frame Data

    Mewtwo Frame Data
    NOTE: This is from 3.02, not sure if the thread has been updated since.

    http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-frame-data-3-02.349436/

    Ness Frame Data

    Olimar Frame Data

    Peach Frame Data

    Pikachu Frame Data

    Pit Frame Data

    R.O.B. Frame Data
    NOTE: This is from 3.02, but I don't know if his frame data has changed since.

    http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-bs-frame-data-3-02.351854/

    Roy Frame Data

    Samus Frame Data

    Sheik Frame Data

    Snake Frame Data

    Sonic Frame Data

    Squirtle Frame Data

    Toon Link Frame Data

    Wario Frame Data

    Wolf Frame Data

    Yoshi Frame Data

    Zelda Frame Data

    Zero Suit Samus Frame Data
    NOTE: This is from 3.02, but I don't know if her frame data has changed since.

    http://smashboards.com/threads/zero-suit-samus-frame-data-3-02.353343/
     
    #1 JOE!, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
  2. CORY

    CORY
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    wut

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    arcticfox8 and JOE! like this.
  3. Mean Green

    Mean Green
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    Smash Lord

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    inb4 stickied
     
  4. CORY

    CORY
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    wut

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    can you do a comparison for dl vs dp?
     
  5. GFooChombey

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    This is fantastic. Great work.
     
  6. Soft Serve

    Soft Serve
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    $oftie

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    If you're taking requests for comparison, dp vs PS2 would be really nice
     
  7. CORY

    CORY
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    wut

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    dp vs the world!
     
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  8. Nezha the Scout

    Nezha the Scout
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    Eyyyyyy

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    Oi, Brawl Box v0.73b supports the blast zone viewer now, so you don't need a brawl wall. I use 'em for custom stages.
     
    #8 Nezha the Scout, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
    JOE! likes this.
  9. Bazkip

    Bazkip
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    Man why is the camera zone so small on WarioWare? I often have trouble judging how far offstage my opponent has been sent on that stage, should be larger imo.
     
  10. JOE!

    JOE!
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    I used brawl wall for ghz and ps2 since the borders wouldn't show in bbox
     
  11. MonkUnit

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    Could you add in the coordinates of the collision panel nodes and the camera/death boundary nodes? That would help in seeing how far the blastzone is from the edge of the stage and such.
     
    Diabolical and JOE! like this.
  12. JOE!

    JOE!
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    I would get than from BrawlWall, yes?
     
  13. MonkUnit

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    Yes, or you can use BrawlBox. I know you can get the individual collision panel node coordinates in BrawlBox's collision viewer, but I don't know if BrawlWall can. To get the coordinates for the camera and death boundaries, you would need to look at the bones for them. IIRC the bones should be labeled something like Death0N / Death1N and Cam0N / Cam1N. Then just click on those bones and see what the coordinates are then add them to your images. :)
     
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  14. McSlur

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    This is great man, thanks!
     
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  15. JOE!

    JOE!
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    I'll get to work on that in a bit, most likely will alter the "raw" images and not comparisons.

    In the meantime, I think I'll separate comparisons by stage and work on getting a bunch in today~
     
    CORY likes this.
  16. Boiko

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    :drshrug:

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    This is great! Thanks for the hard work!
     
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  17. Naxxrama

    Naxxrama
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    Joe, hero of the Blast Zones!
     
  18. JOE!

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    The OP now has comparisons of every stage

    @MonkUnit : Those values have been added from the center to the death boundaries. I think I may have mis-scaled MC :/
     
    #18 JOE!, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
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  19. | Kailex |

    | Kailex |
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    I smell like salty coins and milk

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    If you have that much free time, git gud at the game :^)
     
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  20. JOE!

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    Ok, after getting data on the raw stage boundaries and such, I have created a new method that I want some feedback on:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Binary Clone

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    Easy Money since 1994

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    I really like having the reference grid/reference numbers. Having the red numbers above everything else would be nice, though, since currently they're below the stages, which can make it harder to tell exactly where they lie at a glance. Is 200 about the average, horizontally?
     
  22. JOE!

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    The numbers are just stating every 100 units as well as the outermost boundaries of the picture based on the highest/lowest/furthest boundaries (top, left and right belong to Drac, lowest being FoD). Maybe just nix the numbers and instead put marks on the borders stating their own units from center?
     
  23. Binary Clone

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    I think having the 100/200 etc marks are useful, but maybe also have a box of the "average" blast zones so that you can see at a glance how it compares to other stages, just in general.
     
  24. JOE!

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    Makes sense, I can do that with the raw data already
     
    #24 JOE!, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
  25. MonkUnit

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    I'd rather have the X/Y values be placed where the death boundary/camera is instead of the 100/200 marks. You could also put the stage positions on the image as well, like I suggested earlier but that is not really super necessary.
     
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  26. JOE!

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    Hows this?

    [​IMG]
     
  27. CORY

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    wut

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    From what I can see, it looks pretty good. I'll say more tmrw when I can get on my computer.
     
  28. JOE!

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    I will be updating the thread as I go and make new measurements using the accurate data. For one, I messed up with my Metal Cavern picture big time!
     
  29. MonkUnit

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    Looks good to me, but what are the small red bars on the sides of -260/260, top of 270, and below -110?
     
  30. JOE!

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    Those are my personal markers while scaling the images. They mark the "100s" places as well as the furthest 10's place.
     
    #30 JOE!, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
  31. CyberHyperPhoenix

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    "Download Complete."

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    This is pretty damn cool.

    @Warchamp7 Inb4 Sticky?
     
  32. JOE!

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    Just an update, I am dropping Dracula's castle since it really isn't used IIRC. It is also bigger than dreamland and we can now all see the leap from the second biggest (Skyworld) to the biggest (Dreamland) is staggering enough lol.
     
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  33. | Kailex |

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    I smell like salty coins and milk

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    I still use dracula's, bulli
     
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  34. JOE!

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    [​IMG]
     
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  35. CORY

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    holy crap, dreamland really let itself go ;x

    i like the setup you have for the markers. i'm guessing there's no really unobtrusive way to mark stage ledges, though i guess the overlay comparisons serve the same basic function as that would.
     
  36. JOE!

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    I'm gonna be updating the currently borked comparisons over the coming days using this:

    [​IMG]

    The "Wire-frame" look isolates a stage down to the bare essentials: Collisions and Borders, so that you can get a better picture of it when overlayed with another stage, like so:

    [​IMG]




    In addition, I am separating each stage into another wire-frame that only has the stage itself without borders, to compare the collisions, edges and platforms of stages directly:

    [​IMG]


    This will take a little while, but the results should be much easier to comprehend as well as accurate.

    Also, I will be expanding this later to highlight each stage's ceilings against one another in ranking with a visual guide, as well as widths and so on from each edge. Eventually I may also average out all the blast zones to map out "The average stage" and overlay it in the comparisons to each stage to show how it fares vs the standard, so to speak. This should help with neutral selection IMO, where things more inclined towards the standard deviation would be usually a more neutral stage (composition pending) whereas things that stray way off average would more likely be a CP.


    Stay tuned folks!
     
    #36 JOE!, Feb 11, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  37. Cubelarooso

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    #37 Cubelarooso, Feb 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
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  38. JOE!

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    Awesome @Cubelarooso !

    Anyway, as for an update I am making all these comparison pics so that you can drop down each section individually... but I would also like to use this thread as a sort of stage discussion for the meta game in terms of comparing the roles of each stage against one another, etc.

    On said topic, I used to have Dracula's Castle on the list of stages but took it off due to it being on the doomed 2nd page + being ginormous to the point of hilarity. However, an often overlooked stage is Rumble Falls.

    [​IMG]

    Area-wise (the metric I'm using for overall stage size) it's between GHZ and MC as of 3.5, making it a "Small" stage! However, the main stage itself is rather large with the main platform having the width of FD while the platforms are an inverse of DL.

    I think I may just include this guy to shed some light on a rather uniquely remixed stage. What do you guys think?

    Also, it would be cool if this were stickied~, just saiyan :happysheep:
     
    #38 JOE!, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  39. CORY

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    wut

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    just report it and ask for a sticky.

    or!
    @Strong Bad
    @Hylian

    this worth a sticky in ya'll's opinion?
     
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  40. JOE!

    JOE!
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    On second thought ...towards everything... I have begun making a UnityWeb version of this stage guide to avoid the massive wall of pictures. The OP may include this soon(tm) alongside pure numerical data to avoid the massive scrolling and such.
     
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