PM Info Thread

JOE!

Smash Hero
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Oct 5, 2008
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Dedham, MA
#1

INFO THREAD

Here is a central hub of all the info bits you could want for PM such as Stage Data, Character Roll Infographics, Frame Data listings and more!


MECHANICS INFORMATION

STAGE INFORMATION
3.6 Boundary Data

Stage Comparison App (Outdated)
Hello all, I was bored today and this was rattling around in my head so I decided to go through and try and get a visual guide to stage sizes and blast-zones to better help the community.

Simply put, I've been hearing a lot of talk about stage lists and this and that and how X stage has a higher ceiling than Y and so on. To put those talks to rest and help us all better understand the stages I've made easy to see visuals of each stage and their boundaries.

To keep things accurate I took the points of D0 and D1, the corners of the death boundaries in BrawlBox, and used those to figure out the exact units Up/Down/Left/Right each border is from the center of each stage's floor. Once I had those measurements, I created a grid using a 10x10 unit square, and went on to scale and align each stage. All the stages you'll see are accurate, aligned and to scale for when your character stands on their main floors.

Below are 16 stages ordered Smallest to Largest. Size is determined by overall Blast Zone distances by calculating the area between the top, bottom and sides. For example, WarioWare actually has marginally smaller Side Blast Zones than Yoshi's Story, but a much deeper floor to the point of influencing meteor survival and making it "bigger" than YS area wise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The stage guide is now interactive! Download the Zip file from the link below, place the file on your desktop, double-click the "StageWeb.html" file, and it will open up in your browser!

INTERACTIVE STAGE GUIDE v1.1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To Do:
Implement charts in this main thread.

GENERAL CHARACTER INFORMATION
3.6 Character Attributes

Character Attributes Ranked ~~~~~~~ @Orange Chris

Grab Ranges (Incomplete) ~~~~~~~ @Magus

Tech/Get Up Rolls ~~~~~~~ @Ripple

Back/Forward Rolls ~~~~~~~ @Ripple

Defense Option Frame Data ~~~~~~~ @DelanHaar6

Roll Spreadsheet ~~~~~~~ Cubelarooso Cubelarooso

Waveland Frame Data ~~~~~~~ @InfinityCollision

All Character Landing Lags ~~~~~~~ JOE! JOE!
Normal and Lcanceled landing lags for all aerials, as well as comparison vs Normal 915f) and Fast (10f) reaction times.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N6FN8xUuzTEyZx6_mLOiXtI0mChf3CvrI70w_HKJLOg/edit#gid=0


SPECIFIC CHARACTER INFORMATION
Bowser Frame Data

Captain Falcon Frame Data

Charizard Frame Data

Diddy Kong Frame Data
He needs a thread for 3.6!

Donkey Kong Frame Data
NOTE: This is from 3.02, but I don't think his frame data has changed since.

http://smashboards.com/threads/donkey-kong-frame-data-3-02.350206/

Falco Frame Data

Fox Frame Data

Game & Watch Frame Data

Ganondorf Frame Data

Ice Climbers Frame Data

Ike Frame Data
NOTE: This is from 3.02, but I don't think his frame data has changed since.

http://smashboards.com/threads/ike-frame-data-3-02.350437/

Ivysaur Frame Data

Jigglypuff Frame Data

King DeDeDe Frame Data

Kirby Frame Data

Link Frame Data

Lucario Frame Data

Lucas Frame Data

Luigi Frame Data

Mario Frame Data

Marth Frame Data

Meta Knight Frame Data

Mewtwo Frame Data
NOTE: This is from 3.02, not sure if the thread has been updated since.

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-frame-data-3-02.349436/

Ness Frame Data

Olimar Frame Data

Peach Frame Data

Pikachu Frame Data

Pit Frame Data

R.O.B. Frame Data
NOTE: This is from 3.02, but I don't know if his frame data has changed since.

http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-bs-frame-data-3-02.351854/

Roy Frame Data

Samus Frame Data

Sheik Frame Data

Snake Frame Data

Sonic Frame Data

Squirtle Frame Data

Toon Link Frame Data

Wario Frame Data

Wolf Frame Data

Yoshi Frame Data

Zelda Frame Data

Zero Suit Samus Frame Data
NOTE: This is from 3.02, but I don't know if her frame data has changed since.

http://smashboards.com/threads/zero-suit-samus-frame-data-3-02.353343/
 
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Bazkip

Smash Master
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Dec 15, 2013
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Canada
#9
Man why is the camera zone so small on WarioWare? I often have trouble judging how far offstage my opponent has been sent on that stage, should be larger imo.
 

MonkUnit

Project M Back Roomer
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#13
Yes, or you can use BrawlBox. I know you can get the individual collision panel node coordinates in BrawlBox's collision viewer, but I don't know if BrawlWall can. To get the coordinates for the camera and death boundaries, you would need to look at the bones for them. IIRC the bones should be labeled something like Death0N / Death1N and Cam0N / Cam1N. Then just click on those bones and see what the coordinates are then add them to your images. :)
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
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#15
Yes, or you can use BrawlBox. I know you can get the individual collision panel node coordinates in BrawlBox's collision viewer, but I don't know if BrawlWall can. To get the coordinates for the camera and death boundaries, you would need to look at the bones for them. IIRC the bones should be labeled something like Death0N / Death1N and Cam0N / Cam1N. Then just click on those bones and see what the coordinates are then add them to your images. :)
I'll get to work on that in a bit, most likely will alter the "raw" images and not comparisons.

In the meantime, I think I'll separate comparisons by stage and work on getting a bunch in today~
 

JOE!

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#20
Ok, after getting data on the raw stage boundaries and such, I have created a new method that I want some feedback on:




 

Binary Clone

Easy Money since 1994
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Evanston, IL
#21
Ok, after getting data on the raw stage boundaries and such, I have created a new method that I want some feedback on:




I really like having the reference grid/reference numbers. Having the red numbers above everything else would be nice, though, since currently they're below the stages, which can make it harder to tell exactly where they lie at a glance. Is 200 about the average, horizontally?
 

JOE!

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#22
I really like having the reference grid/reference numbers. Having the red numbers above everything else would be nice, though, since currently they're below the stages, which can make it harder to tell exactly where they lie at a glance. Is 200 about the average, horizontally?
The numbers are just stating every 100 units as well as the outermost boundaries of the picture based on the highest/lowest/furthest boundaries (top, left and right belong to Drac, lowest being FoD). Maybe just nix the numbers and instead put marks on the borders stating their own units from center?
 

Binary Clone

Easy Money since 1994
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#23
The numbers are just stating every 100 units as well as the outermost boundaries of the picture based on the highest/lowest/furthest boundaries (top, left and right belong to Drac, lowest being FoD). Maybe just nix the numbers and instead put marks on the borders stating their own units from center?
I think having the 100/200 etc marks are useful, but maybe also have a box of the "average" blast zones so that you can see at a glance how it compares to other stages, just in general.
 

MonkUnit

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#25
I'd rather have the X/Y values be placed where the death boundary/camera is instead of the 100/200 marks. You could also put the stage positions on the image as well, like I suggested earlier but that is not really super necessary.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
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#26
I'd rather have the X/Y values be placed where the death boundary/camera is instead of the 100/200 marks. You could also put the stage positions on the image as well, like I suggested earlier but that is not really super necessary.
Hows this?

 

JOE!

Smash Hero
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#28
I will be updating the thread as I go and make new measurements using the accurate data. For one, I messed up with my Metal Cavern picture big time!
 

JOE!

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#30
Looks good to me, but what are the small red bars on the sides of -260/260, top of 270, and below -110?
Those are my personal markers while scaling the images. They mark the "100s" places as well as the furthest 10's place.
 
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JOE!

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#32
Just an update, I am dropping Dracula's castle since it really isn't used IIRC. It is also bigger than dreamland and we can now all see the leap from the second biggest (Skyworld) to the biggest (Dreamland) is staggering enough lol.
 
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#35
holy crap, dreamland really let itself go ;x

i like the setup you have for the markers. i'm guessing there's no really unobtrusive way to mark stage ledges, though i guess the overlay comparisons serve the same basic function as that would.
 

JOE!

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#36
holy crap, dreamland really let itself go ;x

i like the setup you have for the markers. i'm guessing there's no really unobtrusive way to mark stage ledges, though i guess the overlay comparisons serve the same basic function as that would.
I'm gonna be updating the currently borked comparisons over the coming days using this:



The "Wire-frame" look isolates a stage down to the bare essentials: Collisions and Borders, so that you can get a better picture of it when overlayed with another stage, like so:






In addition, I am separating each stage into another wire-frame that only has the stage itself without borders, to compare the collisions, edges and platforms of stages directly:




This will take a little while, but the results should be much easier to comprehend as well as accurate.

Also, I will be expanding this later to highlight each stage's ceilings against one another in ranking with a visual guide, as well as widths and so on from each edge. Eventually I may also average out all the blast zones to map out "The average stage" and overlay it in the comparisons to each stage to show how it fares vs the standard, so to speak. This should help with neutral selection IMO, where things more inclined towards the standard deviation would be usually a more neutral stage (composition pending) whereas things that stray way off average would more likely be a CP.


Stay tuned folks!
 
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JOE!

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#38
Awesome @ Cubelarooso Cubelarooso !

Anyway, as for an update I am making all these comparison pics so that you can drop down each section individually... but I would also like to use this thread as a sort of stage discussion for the meta game in terms of comparing the roles of each stage against one another, etc.

On said topic, I used to have Dracula's Castle on the list of stages but took it off due to it being on the doomed 2nd page + being ginormous to the point of hilarity. However, an often overlooked stage is Rumble Falls.



Area-wise (the metric I'm using for overall stage size) it's between GHZ and MC as of 3.5, making it a "Small" stage! However, the main stage itself is rather large with the main platform having the width of FD while the platforms are an inverse of DL.

I think I may just include this guy to shed some light on a rather uniquely remixed stage. What do you guys think?

Also, it would be cool if this were stickied~, just saiyan :happysheep:
 
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JOE!

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#40
On second thought ...towards everything... I have begun making a UnityWeb version of this stage guide to avoid the massive wall of pictures. The OP may include this soon(tm) alongside pure numerical data to avoid the massive scrolling and such.
 
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