PM Info Thread

[JOE!]

Gonna quote myself for archiving purposes....

Spoiler

Hello all, I was bored today and this was rattling around in my head so I decided to go through and try and get a visual guide to stage sizes and blast-zones to better help the community.

Simply put, I've been hearing a lot of talk about stage lists and this and that and how X stage has a higher ceiling than Y and so on. To put those talks to rest and help us all better understand the stages I've made easy to see visuals of each stage and their boundaries.

To keep things accurate I took the points of D0 and D1, the corners of the death boundaries in BrawlBox, and used those to figure out the exact units Up/Down/Left/Right each border is from the center of each stage's floor. Once I had those measurements, I created a grid using a 10x10 unit square, and went on to scale and align each stage. All the stages you'll see are accurate, aligned and to scale for when your character stands on their main floors.

Below are 16 stages ordered Smallest to Largest. Size is determined by overall Blast Zone distances by calculating the area between the top, bottom and sides. For example, WarioWare actually has marginally smaller Side Blast Zones than Yoshi's Story, but a much deeper floor to the point of influencing meteor survival and making it "bigger" than YS area wise.


TO DO:

Edit in height, width and floor comparisons
Highlight platforms and how they can influence ceiling "height" from you

Individual Stages​

Spoiler

The inner, solid is the "Camera Zone", where your character is displayed normally.

The outer, transparent is the "Magnifying Zone", where your character is in a magnifying glass and takes extra damage.

Past the red border is death, a "Blast Zone"

The red numbers park each corner, with the Height and Width next to their respective side. The other red lines are markers for every 100 units or the closest unit to the side of the picture.

The second picture for each stage is a raw "Wire-Frame" showing just the collisions and Blast Zones. A note about Yoshi's Story: Randal is only a collision on the top "line", but I couldn't help but make that face!

1 - Yoshi's Story

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2 - WarioWare

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3 - Green Hill Zone

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4 - Rumble Falls

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5 - Metal Cavern

-​

6 - Smashville

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7 - Battlefield

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8 - Fountain of Dreams

-​

9 - Norfair

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10 - Yoshi's Island

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11 - Lylat Cruise

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12 - Distant Planet

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13 - Pokemon Stadium 2

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14 - Skyworld

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15 - Final Destination

-​

16 - Dreamland

Vs the Average​

After finding out the raw data on the stage boundaries, I created a green area to represent the "average" stage of the 15 competitive stages found on page 1, seen here:

As we can see, on average stages have wider blast zones than they do ceilings, and relatively shallow floors. The red + in the center represents where the center of each stage's floor is in the pictures above to give a slight idea as to where a stage would be with these blast zones, but for added data lets look at how the 15 stack up against the "average".

Spoiler

1 - Yoshi's Story

-​

2 - WarioWare

-​

3 - Green Hill Zone

-​

4 - Rumble Falls

-​

5 - Metal Cavern

-​

6 - Smashville

-​

7 - Battlefield

-​

8 - Fountain of Dreams

-​

9 - Norfair

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10 - Yoshi's Island

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11 - Lylat Cruise

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12 - Distant Planet

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13 - Pokemon Stadium 2

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14 - Skyworld

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15 - Final Destination

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16 - Dreamland

Comparisons​

Below are stage comparisons separated by stage, in the same order as above. Here you can check out both how Blast Zones compare against one another directly with the wire-frame of the stage over another normal picture, as well as a stage-only wire-frame over another wire-frame to compare the stages themselves without distraction. This will give a better idea of just how big/small a stage and its boundaries are compared to another.


DISCLAIMER:
Due to the way the images were fit to the Blast-Zones, the "stage comparison" pictures may be misaligned by a pixel here or there, which is noticeable with the outlines I gave them in photoshop. Just a heads up, but the stages are not really that far apart up/down, its an effect of the outlines.

Spoiler

Yoshi's Story

Spoiler

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

WarioWare

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Green Hill Zone

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Rumble Falls

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Metal Cavern

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Smashville

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Battlefield

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Fountain of Dreams

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Norfair

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Yoshi's Island

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Lylat Cruise

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Distant Planet

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Pokemon Stadium 2

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Skyworld

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Final Destination

Vs Dreamland

Final Destination

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Dreamland

Dreamland

Spoiler

Vs Yoshi's Story

Vs WarioWare

Vs Green Hill Zone

Vs Rumble Falls

Vs Metal Cavern

Vs Smashville

Vs Battlefield

Vs Fountain of Dreams

Vs Norfair

Vs Yoshi's Island

Vs Lylat Cruise

Vs Distant Planet

Vs Pokemon Stadium 2

Vs Skyworld

Vs Final Destination

Hope you guys enjoy~

 

[JOE!]

The stage guide is now interactive! Download the Zip file from the link below, place the file on your desktop, double-click the "StageWeb.html" file, and it will open up in your browser!

INTERACTIVE STAGE GUIDE v1.0

 

[standardtoaster]

@ JOE! Why does it use Unity3D? I was expecting to be able to zoom in/out and pan the screen because of this. It just seems like simple toggles that overlay images. I'm just curious about the use of Unity3D here

 

[JOE!]

It uses unity 2D atm since I find it quick to use and get loaded onto html. (The web player just says Unity3D)

At some point I could make 3D models or even port the stages in though. But the first iteration is to show stages against one another on a basic level without needing to scroll everywhere.

 

[Comeback Kid]

This should settle many a debate, nice work Joe!

 

[Strong Badam]

Any reason Dracula's Castle isn't included? Would like to see how it stacks up.

 

[Juushichi]

Any reason Dracula's Castle isn't included? Would like to see how it stacks up.

Just an update, I am dropping Dracula's castle since it really isn't used IIRC. It is also bigger than dreamland and we can now all see the leap from the second biggest (Skyworld) to the biggest (Dreamland) is staggering enough lol.

hi strong underscore badam

 

[Scatz]

Subscribing to information goodies.

 

[JOE!]

Any reason Dracula's Castle isn't included? Would like to see how it stacks up.

Pretty much Drac is even -bigger- than Dreamland, which is pants-on-head bonkers.

Also, here's a preview of the next version's features: you can select each stage individually and break down all sorts of measurements, which will be helpful when i convert the units for Knockback....

 

[Scatz]

Hey Joe, you think you can add Rumble Falls and/or Skyloft on to the list? Wanna see the numbers for those stages as well.

 

[JOE!]

Rumble Falls is on there. Skyloft is sorta booty, may give it a go tho

 

[MegaMissingno]

Can you mirror the old guide somewhere? There's still no Unity Web Player on Linux, so I can't use the new one.

Edit: Nevermind, I see it's at the top of this page. Disregard me.

 

[JOE!]

Hey look, a stage select screen~

You can see the numerical values of relevant stage parts compared to the grid in Units~

You can also see the distance from certain points of the stage to the blast-zone, then compare said distance to a Knockback value using your favorite moves! Who knew that at the ledge, the Knee of Justice will KO Charizard and Samus at 68%?
(no Di tho~)

 

[Cubelarooso]

Where did you get the formula for changing KB to distance?

 

[JOE!]

Where did you get the formula for changing KB to distance?

The formula as-is currently is based on extensive testing I did with Charizard's Up B on battlefield as it launches at a perfect 90* vertical angle. Essentially I took %'s a knew for a fact KO on a handful of characters and then compared the Raw KB data against one another to make sure it was in the same ballpark (off by 1 or 2 KB out of a number that is 12000~ish is basically the same value). Then, knowing the distance I hit them thanks to having the collision data from the BF platforms, I was able to use division to equate raw KB into stage units as each character would be sent the same distance at the same KB value, etc.

When I get back to this, I'm gonna try and have the calculator actually draw a line that incorporates angle as a visual guide to show Units traveled from your hit. I'll need to start looking at Gravity and Fall speed relationships tho

 

[Cubelarooso]

I wouldn't think the KB values would be the same for those characters, since they'd also have different gravity and fall speed, which would mean they go different distances. I don't think the relationship is linear, either, since KB is a velocity rather than a distance.

 

[JOE!]

I wouldn't think the KB values would be the same for those characters, since they'd also have different gravity and fall speed, which would mean they go different distances. I don't think the relationship is linear, either, since KB is a velocity rather than a distance.

I used characters with the same fall speeds for the comparison, but I'm also going to be doing more testing to make sure it's accurate using horizontal moves

 

[Strong Badam]

Gave dis da sticky last night. Keep up the good work JOE! <3

 

[Bazkip]

When you click on Numbers for PS2 it seems to show the Dreamland values.

 

[JOE!]

Updated after the bug found by @ Bazkip :

Download the Zip file from the link below, place the file on your desktop, double-click the "StageWeb.html" file, and it will open up in your browser!

INTERACTIVE STAGE GUIDE v1.1

 

[Bazkip]

Updated after the bug found by @ Bazkip :

Download the Zip file from the link below, place the file on your desktop, double-click the "StageWeb.html" file, and it will open up in your browser!

INTERACTIVE STAGE GUIDE v1.1

uhhhhh
The link just goes to your post

Looks like you need a patch for your post about patching

 

[JOE!]

wtf, fixed it lol

@ work johns~

 

[TheGravyTrain]

In version 1.1, is there any other changes/corrections besides PS2 and the UI?

 

[JOE!]

In version 1.1, is there any other changes/corrections besides PS2 and the UI?

Nope, just an update to the aesthetic/bugfix

 

[Bazkip]

Actually wait I want to come back to this again

Man why is the camera zone so small on WarioWare? I often have trouble judging how far offstage my opponent has been sent on that stage, should be larger imo.

@SOJ could we get this changed or can you at least think about it? I think it'd improve the experience playing on that stage.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Just compared your numbers and mine, and I'm wondering where the 5u discrepancy on WW's ceiling came from.

 

[Scatz]

If anything, can we talk about the blastzones and how to make things seem more natural?

 

[JOE!]

Just compared your numbers and mine, and I'm wondering where the 5u discrepancy on WW's ceiling came from.

Because the camera center is about 5 units below the stage floor. I measure from there since it makes more sense for practical usage.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Mine is measured from the floor as well, and the numbers for the bottom blast zone match.

 

[JOE!]

Hmm, may have to double check then

 

[JOE!]

AH, I see I was off by a bit. WW is 173 ceiling and not 168.5. Gonna have to do some updates.. tho it is still 2nd lowest lol

 

[JOE!]

Just an update:

After 3.6 I'll release an updated comparison tool with the new stages, but before then you guys could see the knockback simulator depending on my schedule!

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Holy. This thing's amazing.

After you release something for 3.6 I definitely have a particular project that would implement this thing.
Also, you wouldn't happen to have a Layered PSD version lying about? It would help me cut corners if there is, no biggy if there isn't tho.

Mad props @ JOE!

 

[XalchemistX]

I downloaded unity webplayer, but its still not working

 

[MegaMissingno]

The Unity web player still doesn't exist for Linux. Any chance you could compile a standalone build?

 

[cisyphus]

If it helps with development at all, here is a whole load of data points for Snake's various KO moves that I've been compiling, separated into different Sheets by stage:
Snake Matchup Data [KO%, Combo Trees, etc] by Cisyphus

and here is the frame data thread which will list all KB values:
Snake: Hitboxes and Frame Data [3.5] by Sartron

I wanna see this grow because currently I'm testing all of these points by hand and if I can just plug them into a calculator and have the data I need that'd be wonderful

 

[JOE!]

Just an update for y'all:

Been super busy with work/life/etc, so I hav been kind of chipping away at this, but I will assure you that after 3.6 drops I'll get this up and running in at least this phase:

For all the 3.6 stages.


For the future, lets just say I am also working on a much more comprehensive Knockback Calculator...

 

[Frakture]

Just an update for y'all:

Been super busy with work/life/etc, so I hav been kind of chipping away at this, but I will assure you that after 3.6 drops I'll get this up and running in at least this phase:

For all the 3.6 stages.


For the future, lets just say I am also working on a much more comprehensive Knockback Calculator...

Are you including gravity, max fallspeed and launch angle into your distance calculations?

 

[JOE!]

Are you including gravity, max fallspeed and launch angle into your distance calculations?

Yes and yes

 

[Mc.Rad]

OOOOOOH Nice! This might be a good tool for users