andalsoandy
Smash Lord
I don't think Mach Rider has been said yet. Good Idea.
Also, the rule is no Mega Evolutions.
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PM Arts and Alts Thread
- Thread starter Sour Supreme
- Start date
- Status
Also, the rule is no Mega Evolutions.
HayabusaTaichou
Smash Apprentice
Has this thread begun to consist entirely of people repeating the same suggestions over and over or has it always been like that?
How about we try saying more costumes we absolutely don't want to get things interesting again.
I'll start with some Zelda I absolutely don't wants:
SS Zelda - I think in general she's a little bit off conceptually to have her performing Zelda's moves from Smash Bros (I think that's partly why she still looks very TP Zelda like in 4) but mostly because there's no good sheik alternative that would work with her.
Toon Ganon - while maybe some sort of invented robed costume for Ganondorf may work this is completely off base for him to really feel right both proportionally and aesthetically.
Fierce Deity Link - Just, I've heard people argue that it's fine cause it's just Link dressed like him and he can fight like normal Link and everything's okay but really, the Fierce Deity is an ability Link gets that makes Link grow huge and all powered up and creates this big magic sword that fires magic blasts and it's awesome. Link looking like that and not being that crazy powered up just doesn't feel right to me.
SS casual clothes Link - They're not that interesting, TP casual Link or really any of his armours should come first with Brawl Link's design being based on TP, and suddenly having a different styled link with a different costume is weird.
How about we try saying more costumes we absolutely don't want to get things interesting again.
I'll start with some Zelda I absolutely don't wants:
SS Zelda - I think in general she's a little bit off conceptually to have her performing Zelda's moves from Smash Bros (I think that's partly why she still looks very TP Zelda like in 4) but mostly because there's no good sheik alternative that would work with her.
Toon Ganon - while maybe some sort of invented robed costume for Ganondorf may work this is completely off base for him to really feel right both proportionally and aesthetically.
Fierce Deity Link - Just, I've heard people argue that it's fine cause it's just Link dressed like him and he can fight like normal Link and everything's okay but really, the Fierce Deity is an ability Link gets that makes Link grow huge and all powered up and creates this big magic sword that fires magic blasts and it's awesome. Link looking like that and not being that crazy powered up just doesn't feel right to me.
SS casual clothes Link - They're not that interesting, TP casual Link or really any of his armours should come first with Brawl Link's design being based on TP, and suddenly having a different styled link with a different costume is weird.
arcticfox8
Smash Champion
I feel like that was rather clever.
andalsoandy
Smash Lord
I really wish people didn't always assume that about this thread because I literally just posted a ton of costume ideas, a majority of which were not said before.
Perhaps we need an OP who can put up a list of possible Alts for each and every character, so people don't have to read 98+ pages of some new ideas and occasional repeats.
MLGF
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 1,922
In addition: it might be a good idea to include a voting element to the thread with such an opening post, so the popularity of suggestions can also be measured.
HayabusaTaichou
Smash Apprentice
You mean all the Warios? I guess that's true but an obvious exception from the current norm. I also suppose it's this list making trend that's most to blame for all the repeats.
andalsoandy
Smash Lord
lastoutlaw113
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2013
- Messages
- 127
I've been here since this thread had less than twenty pages, and now I don't even know if there are any suggestions left to be made that aren't repeats.
I might be willing to do it, but as it's a community project (meaning who does it doesn't really matter in the end anyway) and as there might be people on here with more spare time than I have, there might be other members better suited for the job. Let's see which member(s) volunteer too first and if someone really wants to do it, let him/her do it.
Just to summarize what starting said thread means:
- Reposting the rules listing in this thread and/or a link to this thread
- compiling a list of all mentioned alt. costumes that are viable (according to this threads' rules)
- Explaining the voting system
- Counting and editing votes
Any more ideas?
Last edited:
andalsoandy
Smash Lord
Mmm, sounds good to me.
ElGoombaswag
Hououin Kyoma
whats an OP?
EdgeTheLucas
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 1,695
This thread has 100 pages WOOOOOOO-
But yeah it'd be neat if somebody could keep a list of most wanted costumes. I attempted such a list a while back, but I forgot the page it was on.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure OP means original post, as in the first post on the first page.
But yeah it'd be neat if somebody could keep a list of most wanted costumes. I attempted such a list a while back, but I forgot the page it was on.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure OP means original post, as in the first post on the first page.
andalsoandy
Smash Lord
OP stands for original post/poster. The person who owns the thread and can edit the first page at will.
We need an OP because we need to keep track of what has and hasn't been said yet, and possibly implement a voting system.
LeeYawshee
Smash Ace
A voting system would be really weird for this thread, especially due to how many costumes can be decided and how many ideas each individual person has.
Alright, I've thought up a way to do this as it's quite some work:
- If everyone agrees to it I'll make the thread/maintain the OP
- The construction of the list will have to be a community based effort though: working it out alone is too much work
- We should vote on a voting system (lol): one like the voting system for possible new characters for PM (5 times 1 + vote, - (down) votes and infinite 1/2 votes), or simply an X amount of up votes (counting as 1)? Also about this: we'll have to take the diversity of possibilities and people's opinions into account, or we might end up with a list of around 100 costumes all with +1 vote.
Any more ideas about these or other points?
- If everyone agrees to it I'll make the thread/maintain the OP
- The construction of the list will have to be a community based effort though: working it out alone is too much work
- We should vote on a voting system (lol): one like the voting system for possible new characters for PM (5 times 1 + vote, - (down) votes and infinite 1/2 votes), or simply an X amount of up votes (counting as 1)? Also about this: we'll have to take the diversity of possibilities and people's opinions into account, or we might end up with a list of around 100 costumes all with +1 vote.
Any more ideas about these or other points?
Aenglaan
Smash Apprentice
Samus could use a ton of different alt. costumes. I'd love to see the Fusion Suit, Phazon Suit, Dark Suit, Light Suit, and PED Suit among others.
andalsoandy
Smash Lord
I don't like the voting system in the Clone Engine thread but I can't think of a better one. Perhaps make it more lenient, and everyone gets infinite votes?
Normally infinite votes would seem ridiculous, but for this it might actually work to differentiate the truly popular from the less popular.
I'd like to hear more people's opinions about this though: there might be a flaw in it that we're missing atm.
LeeYawshee
Smash Ace
Infinite votes is good but let's face it, we'd see 5 alts for Samus per person. I personally believe there should be some kind of limit. Along with that make people not able to request anything for characters with all 10 slots just because we know that Project M won't replace anything there.
andalsoandy
Smash Lord
Perhaps...
Maybe we can have three to five votes per character?
Come to think of it, this is gonna be a hell of a job for the OP...
arcticfox8
Smash Champion
How about....1 vote for each slot a character has left? So you can only vote for one Link alt, 4 ICs alts, and no Mario alts, for example.
ElGoombaswag
Hououin Kyoma
im cool with that
This is a good idea: this way everyone can voice their opinion (i.e. show which costumes are really popular) without unnecissarily long lists of costumes and votes.
In short: the voting system has to be fine tuned with the amount of costume slots the characters have left. Does anyone have a list available of what amount of slots which characters have left (or does anyone know where one can find such a list)?
The first part of your post will be our next concern, but let's first focus on fine tuning the voting system with the costume slots. After that we might empose some kind of limit if the system doesn't work (yet).
ElGoombaswag
Hououin Kyoma
easy for bowser. dark bowser, cat bowser, striker bowser.
QQQQQQQ7777777
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 2,300
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you're getting at.
QQQQQQQ7777777
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 2,300
Well the Alternate Costume Engine Thread started with this:
and the Clone Engine Thread started with this:
AND WE'RE ONLY MAKING A VOTING SYSTEM NOW! You would think that with two threads made around the same time and both dealing with a similar topic (New content) that SOMEBODY would have come up with this idea back on page 1, NOT PAGE 100!Introduction
As the other thread strayed from its original intentions of discussion the clone engine, it turned more into a character speculation, charged with colorful discussion. By popular request in that thread, I'm starting a new thread to just discuss possible character choices, while leaving the old thread for discussing the clone engine itself, its current characters (Roy and Mewtwo), and technicalities/limitations. I'm also starting a new thread so that the OP can be kept updated as the old thread turned into a endless repetitive cycle of arguments and lists because newcomers wouldn't bother to read the 20+ pages in between, so my goal is to keep the first page updated, and everyone's welcome to help let me know what I should be updating.
Subjective vs. Objective
Another big thing to keep in mind is that there's a big difference between who you want and who you like, and ultimately what most P:M players like and what will likely be happening. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but make sure you understand that stating your opinion is only for influencing others. If they're not convinced, then stop after you've stated all you need to say; we don't need back and forth flame wars. That's the subjective part.
The objective side of the argument is ultimately who's in favor of a character (after all the arguments have been said and done), and how much of the community is or would be behind that idea too. This should be the ultimate measuring stick for who'd be a good candidate for the PMBR to consider in future versions. Please try not to mix up your personal opinions when discussing the objective end of all this speculation crap. Data (i.e. polling) is your best friend here. Speaking of which...
Unofficial Polling
So that we have better evidence of what the community is thinking, I'll try to run a tally of votes. But I'm a very, very busy guy, so if people can help keep track for me, that would be great. There are five remaining clone slots, so I propose the following:
1. Each unique poster can vote up to 5 characters. They will be tallied for 1 point each. Note: From now on, you may not change these five votes unless for some reason that character becomes disqualified. Pick your votes wisely. You may always add them in later.
2. Each unique poster can then vote for any number of characters after that. They will be tallied for 1/2 point each. The idea is that if you had to choose 5, you'd give more weight to those.
2. Each unique poster can down vote any number of characters. Only down vote if you're actually AGAINST the character being in. If you're indifferent, just don't vote on that character. This will be also be tallied on a separate count rather than subtracting against the up votes. This is to differentiate actual opposition from just indifference to a character. Note: From now on, I require you to give an explanation (it doesn't have to be long, it can be brief as long as it's reasonable) for all anti votes. Otherwise they won't be tallied. This is to try to keep things honest and not use these votes to play the numbers.
3. That means characters you're indifferent on... just don't vote. You can say if you're indifferent to the idea though, and we can tally that so we have a more complete picture.
This way we can have a good barometer on what the community is thinking. Because unlike SSB4, the PMBR is here and they might actually listen. And this game is for the community. So if a character is only attracting 50% popularity or less, it will probably not be worth the PMBR's effort.
Things to keep in mind:
1. Any quality character would take at least 700 hours to make, especially because of animations. That's why clonses/partial clones are the most appealing. Despite a lot of people's distaste for clones, this seems to be huge pro for any character to be in P:M
2. P:M is not an official Smash. So it's possible that characters that would not be possible for SSB Wii/3DS might just be possible because of fan support and maybe the cloneability. Geno, for an example, was for whatever reasons a popular fan character back in the Brawl days (however, Geno is not possible, as I'll explain below).
3. Adding a new character with the clone engine takes a ton of work, so they better be well worth the effort. For that reason, I won't even mention obscure characters that have no big reason to join the cast, or characters that have more deserving spots in their series (i.e. any random *** Sonic character that's not Tails, Knuckles, or even Shadow)
4. This is a Nintendo game, so third party characters shouldn't be getting that much attention regardless (i.e. no need to have 3 Sonic characters). Also copyright/C&D issues. Characters that haven't appeared in Brawl have no chance, so don't even mention them.
5. I'll frequently reference a character's odds of making it into Wii/3DS, because character that will probably make it (like Little Mac) should be avoided for C&D reasons. If I don't mention it, then the odds are right between "likely" and "unlikely."
6. According to cmart, current PSA's won't affect character chances because regardless, a character will be built up from scratch.
7. Please remember, this is a MOD. NOT SSB4. When you vote or make arguments for characters, realize there are limitations. PLEASE keep in mind the amount of work that it would take to make a character, and if it is even possible. Saying Character X can use so and so items from his game is counterproductive if that can't be done!
Rating the characters
There are 7 clone slots, two of which are already done with Roy and Mewtwo. I doubt all of them will be used. So with that said, I'll be summarizing up some of the characters that have been mentioned by at least more than one person and grading how good of a candidate they are for the P:M team. I'll look at three categories and giving them three grades (A-C):
Value - how much value do they have as a character, as a mascot, as an iconic character of their series, etc... basically how much they deserve to be in Smash
A: Iconic character or brings a lot to the table
B: Fairly important character... or an iconic character, but in a saturated series (Pokemon, Mario).. or has some other minor flaw
C: Not very important
Effort - how much work would it take to make this character? Keep in mind that animations are probably the biggest part, so if borrowing animations is possible, that reduces the time. This rating is all estimated though...
A: As easy as can get. Pretty much a clone, or very simple animations. Having an established moveset helps too.
B: Will take some work and creativity. Significant animation work
C: Need to develop from scratch and take a ton of time. Is this even worth it??
THE LIST
Pichu (Pokemon)
Because he's a veteran
NOTE: NO PICHU DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD. DISCUSS HERE INSTEAD.
Value - C - As more and more Pokemon get added, Pichu's value drops and drops.
Effort - A - Pichu already has an established moveset to work off of from Melee, and he is very similar to Pikachu.
Background/Reasons: The only other Melee clone still in contention. He is a melee veteran, and can (definitely) use a moveset overhaul, but unlike Roy and Metwo, there has never been a huge demand for his return to Brawl. But now that Roy and Mewtwo are out of the bag, some people have been getting more vocal in wanting him back. Another main argument against him is that he's in a super-saturated series, which after Mewtwo has SEVEN characters. A big question to consider is if it's worth the PMBR's time... "What will everyone's reaction be if we announce Pichu? 'Oh, great, Pichu -- the last clone I wanted,' would be the majority, and we just spent 700 goddamn hours making this furball." One thing is for sure; Pichu is very controversial
Moveset - His moveset would be based on his one from Melee, duh. But it'd probably be revamped to be much better while still having the self-injuring electrical attacks.
Pros
-Straightforward to make
-Melee veteran
-Unique gimmick lets PMBR be creative with making the character actually viable
Cons
-Extremely controversial
-Not very popular
-Seven slots already used for Pokemon. Eight is overkill.
Pokemon Trainer / Red (Pokemon)
If he could fight on his own...
Value - A/B - Brawl character and Pokemon protagonist that couldn't make the cut for Project M 3.0
Effort - C - Would need to be made from scratch
Background - Ever since the PT Pokemon were split up and made their own characters, the Pokemon Trainer has been nowhere to be seen. Some have called for his return to P:M as his own fighter. Some people may think that's how it should've always been -- the trainer himself fighting.
Moveset - His moveset would probably be a very basic puncher/kicker, but with specials unique to what he could do in Pokemon. Maybe throw rocks from the Safari Zone, or ride his bicycle (stealing Wario's move). One of the best options would be for him to throw a Pokeball (the item) -- the only problem with that is that it's probably too strong and that there's crazy variance to the Pokemon that come out.
Pros
-Technically already in Brawl, but needs to make a comeback in P:M
Cons
-The few things special to PT might be limited by what's available to the modders.
-Too many Pokemon characters already (7 currently)
Skull Kid(Legend of Zelda)
Recurring character and villain of Majora's Mask
Value - B - Appeared as the main enemy in one Zelda game, and appeared in two others (Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess)
Effort - C - Not a clone, so will need to be made completely from scratch.
Background - While Majora's Mask is getting older and older, it still remains a popular fan favorite. Now that Young Link is probably out of the picture, no one in the lineup represents MM in particular. Skull Kid was brought up because he's one of the few Zelda characters that appears in multiple games and has the distinction of being the main villain.
Moveset - His moveset would be mostly left up to interpretation. It would be a trickster-styled moveset though, with warping around and possibly using dummies borrowed from his TP incarnation. Whether or not he can use his mask to attack or grab is up to the limitations of what the animators can do.
Pros
-Fairly popular
-Has the potential for pretty distinctive gameplay compared to other characters
Cons
-We already have quite a few Zelda characters in the roster already
-Will need to be made from scratch, probably with voice work too.
Tetra (Legend of Zelda)
(Toon Zelda not included)
Value - A/B - Major character in the Wind Waker timeline of Zelda
Effort - B - Can be made somewhat clone-like.
Background - Tetra appeared in a bunch of games, including Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Four Swords Adventures. Note that this entry is just for Tetra alone. If she were to be combined with Toon Zelda, then that would be two separate slots. You're free to vote for Toon Zelda too, but realize that fact, and don't combine them into one vote.
Moveset - Her moveset can probably be based off Sheik and/or Toon Link. She'd definitely have bombs, and then she can add other piratey things or even steal a few unused weapons from Link like a grappling hook.
Pros
-Fairly popular
-Major Zelda character
-Can benefit from cloning a bunch of moves from Toon Link
Cons
-We already have quite a few Zelda characters in the roster already
-If together with Toon Zelda, would take up two slots
Black Shadow (F-Zero) and Ganondorf(Legend of Zelda)
A two-in-one package where the current Falcon-clone Ganondorf will be reskinned to his archnemesis Black Shadow, and the clone slot will be used to recreate Ganondorf using available models
Value - A - Many people have wanted a true-to-Ganondorf Ganondorf, and while not as many, people have also asked for more F-Zero representation.
Effort - B - Ganondorf will need all new animations and projectiles.
Black Shadow - Black Shadow is Captain Falcon's archnemesis, first appearing in F-Zero X. F-Zero is actually a pretty sizeable franchise, with at least 5 games, more than Star Fox (3 characters) and Mother (2 characters), yet it only has 1 character. If it were to have another, there are 3 main candidates: Samurai Goroh (Falcon's rival from the very first game), Blood Falcon (his clone), and Black Shadow. Samurai Goroh would require a litle more work. Blood Falcon is already a costume for Falcon, and he doesn't add much. Black Shadow, on the other hand, fits the villain role, and due to his dark and evil character, perfectly fits the playstyle of the current Ganondorf, down to the shadow side-effects. And of course, he's significant in the story.
Ganondorf - Many people, including me, have been disappointed at Ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon because that is not how his character works in the Zelda games. While Captain Falcon has never been seen outside his car (allowing the developers to be creative with his moveset), Ganondorf HAS. He's either using magic (OoT) or swords (WW, TP) when fighting Link.
In general, the most opposition to this idea are players who like Ganondorf just the way he is and can't see him in any other form (despite him being much different in his actual games)
Moveset - Ganondorf would probably have to have a combination of attacks borrowed from other characters. A lot of people don't want to see another sword-user, so his sword could be restricted to a few of his moves. The most common move requested is his electric ball attack from OoT (neutral B - chargeable like in the game). Like Zelda, the rest of his moves can be creative. Perhaps a down B could be a chargeable attack where he raises his fist in front of his face, charges, and then releases a blast from the the Triforce of Power, knocking everyone in a radius back. Otherwise, he's a character with a lot of room for creativity.
Pros
-Relatively easy to implement - part of it is just a texture reskinning, the other part is using a fully established model and giving it a new moveset and animations.
-Can rectify one of the most complained about clone implementations
-Gives F-Zero a much needed character
Cons
-Resistance to changing Ganondorf despite being able to use the same character with a different name and textures.
-Will have to create Ganondorf moveset from scratch. He has some established moves to be used for inspiration.
Samurai Goroh (F-Zero)
The second most popular F-Zero character.
Value - A - F-Zero is quite a large franchise, and it only has one character. Samurai Goroh is the second most recognizable character from the series.
Effort - ? - Depends on whether he is a reskinned Ganondorf or a separate character
Background - Samurai Goroh is the second most popular F-Zero character, hands down. He was one of the four original racers, and as the series develops, he gets a lot of screentime as one of Falcon's many rivals. In Brawl, he appears as an assist trophy, where he attacks with his katana. In the game, he's very proficient with a katana. It might also be hinted he might be into sumo, given his Japanese theme, his body size, and how he slaps the signature screen (yes, his hand is his signature) during one of his victory interviews.
Moveset - Goroh has at least two routes. One route is that we can take the Black Shadow / Ganondorf ticket above and replace Black Shadow with Goroh. The shadowy effects could be replaced with flame effects (he does drive the Fire Stingray). And if we want to go further, some of his animations can be changed. Punches can be swapped with sumo-like palm strikes. His katana can be used to replace some punches (like the Warlock Punch or his smash attack). Going into dangerous territory, the B forward can replaced by a samurai quick slash, borrowed from Ike's quick slash side B, though the attack properties would also have to change.
Alternatively, Goroh can be a fresh character. Maybe a clone, although people don't want another sword user. So perhaps a unique character with some borrowed sword attacks, coupled with his own brawling attacks could be another idea... Here is an example of a moveset for him from later in this thread
Pros
-Most popular character (outside of Captain Falcon) from a large franchise with only one character
-Can be a "Captain Ganondorf" replacement so that Ganondorf can get his own moveset.
-Appears in the Brawl intro, but never actually got to fight
Cons
-As a separate character, would take a lot of work
-As a Captain Ganondorf replacement, does not fit as well as Black Shadow.
Lyn (Fire Emblem)
A popular female FE lord
Value - B - Another sword user in a saturated series (Fire Emblem). However, fairly popular, and is one of the top candidates if FE were to get another character, if not the top choice
Effort - C - Will need new animations.
Background - While not the main character of the US's first Fire Emblem game (that goes to Eliwood), Lyn is the first lord you get to play, and she's pretty popular. She also has a unique sword-style that can make her different than all the sword users. Also a bow user, so we might be able to vary her moveset up a bit. While I can say with absolute certainty she won't make it in SSB Wii/3DS, her popularity with fans here make her a candidate for a P:M slot (and actually, not being in Wii/3DS is a bonus because we won't have to deal with copyright issues).
Moveset - See here.
Pros
-One of the most popular FE lords
-Unique sword style differentiates her from other FE lords
-Female - diversity FTW
-Will almost definitely not be in Wii/3DS
Cons
-Will require quite of bit of work, including custom sound effects.
-Moveset must be designed from scratch.
-Yet another sword user
-Already have 3 Fire Emblem characters, and one of the clone spots goes to a FE character already
-While popular among FE characters, is she very popular overall?
Hector (Fire Emblem)
Can't mention Lyn without mentioning her axe-wielding comrade lord from the same game
Value - C - Lyn is generally more popular. Eliwood is the main character, Lyn is the first lord, but Hector (while being the third lord) is probably the third main character and requires his mode to be unlocked. While still extremely important in his own game, in the broad scope of Smash Bros and all that is Nintendo, he's not that important.
Effort - C - From scratch, completely.
Background/Reason - The third lord of Fire Emblem (the Sealed Sword). You don't actually get to play his storyline you unlock his mode after beating the game. There are two main reasons people want him: 1) "He has an axe!" (making him different than other characters) and 2) "He's my favorite lord!" (I'm not kidding). They are actually quite legit, but compared to the other applications here, they kind of pale in comparison. He doesn't have an assist trophy, and his moveset would be have to be even more built up from nothing. His main competition is Lyn, and that's a tough one to beat.
Pros
-Most popular after Lyn, I believe
-The AXE
-Will almost definitely not be in Wii/3DS
Cons
-Inferior to Lyn in terms of iconic weight/importance and possibly popularity
-Not very popular outside of Fire Emblem
-Will require a lot of work.
-Already 3 Fire Emblem characters, and one of the clone engine spots goes to a FE character already
-Moveset must be designed from scratch.
Sukapon/Skapon (Joy Mech Fight)
The pink robot from Nintendo's first fighting game
Value - A - One of the Nintendo's few games to be represented in Smash, and it also happens to be Nintendo's first fighting game. Has a lot of game-introducing power to those unfamiliar with the game, similar to Ness, Marth/Roy, Ice Climbers, and Game & Watch.
Effort - C - Easy model, but difficult unique animations and skeletal structure (updated from Silentd00m and cmart)
Background - Joy Mech Fight was Nintendo's first traditional fighting game... but unfortunately it was one of those games that A) never made it to the US and B) came at the end of a console's lifespan (often a death sentence). The game itself played like Street Fighter II controls-wise, and all the robots had no joints, allowing it to be smooth even on the NES. Its storyline was a super ripoff from Mega Man, with an evil scientist making robots go crazy, and the good doc brings a non-combat robot, Skapon (whose main job is to entertain as a comedian) to fight and save the day. But given that the PMBR won't add Mega Man for copyright reasons, the ripoff is almost poetic if Skapon is added in lieu of Mega Man's absence.
Moveset - Skapon's moveset would be based on the moveset in his own game. It even helps that Joy Mech Fight has special moves, which he can base his off of. He doesn't have any true projectiles, but in the game he has two attacks (tondekee and konnan irahen) where he shoots his head forward. Another attack is where he launches himself forward in a rolling attack (rolling skapon). The rest of his attacks are simple punches and kicks, and they can pretty much be borrowed from most of the current characters. Another oddity is that his walking animation is him spinning around (kinda like Rob's roll)
For a more detailed post on Skapon: see here
Pros
-Untouched franchise that can pay homage to Nintendo's first fighting game and also has the ability to expose players (like how many of us learned about Earthbound, Ice Climbers, Fire Emblem, Game & Watch, and more)
-Existing moveset from his original game to base moves off of
-Fitting Mega Man "replacement" (in spirit)
-Easy sounds effects
Cons
-Difficult animations
-Not very popular, but unlike other candidates (*cough*Waluigi*cough*), is not actually hated either... more just not very well known, which is also a pro (see above)
-Fairly good possibility of being in Smash Bros Wii/3DS
-Joy Mech Fight is relatively obscure, Japanese only, and only has one game.
Waluigi (Mario Bros / Wario?)
WAAAHHH!! When will he appear in anything OTHER than a party game!?
Value - C - Never the main character of any game, the main villain of any game, or even a major supporting character of any game... but WAAAHH!!
Effort - B - There has been an excellent PSA made. If that can be done, the PMBR can do it too.
Background - I don't think I need to say much about Waluigi. Everyone knows who he is. He's easily one of the most divisive characters for speculation, and for what it's worth, that's a big con. It's not to the PMBR's benefit to spend a lot of time working on a character that at most half of the community would enjoy. HOWEVER, Waluigi has been getting a lot of work done outside of the PMBR, by Marioking64 (see his videos) and KingJigglypuff, and that can be used as somewhat of an inspiration for a moveset.
Pros
-Has one of the most developed PSA's out there that can be used for inspiration -- Check this out!
-Adds a little completion to the roster to give Wario a counterpart
-Very high chance of not making it into Wii/3DS
Cons
-Very divisive character
-Does not have any major role in the Mario games to earn him a spot
(From left to right: Sami, Andy, Max)
Andy (Advance Wars)
For a more detailed explanation of Advance Wars and the characters, read ChronoBound's post here.
Value - A - Most recurrent protagonist of an unrepresented major series (like Marth and Ike for Fire Emblem)
Effort - C - Would probably need to be made from scratch.
Background - Advance Wars is probably the biggest franchise without representation in Smash Bros. And Andy is the only main character to appear more than once (unlike Jake and Will, the two other protagonists). In Advance Wars, armies are commanded by COs, who have special powers and stat boosts for their armies. You pick your CO much like you pick your fighter in a fighting game. Initially, you start with Andy, Max, and Sami (from the same country, Orange Star) in the first game, with Andy being your initial character. In the first game, he is easily the main character, as most of the story revolves around him (and *spoilers* an evil clone of him causing havoc in the world). In later games, the story is a little more decentralized and you get to control more of the different characters (including ones from other countries) and get to know their personalities and side stories a bit more.
In the games, Andy is a naive character whose idiocy exists mainly to give you a tutorial of the units and buildings. He has no special strengths or weaknesses (much like Mario), but he is a genius mechanic, and his special ability is to repair all the units on the field and give them a little boost.
Moveset - Being a commanding officer in an army game, some of Snake's moves may be a natural fit for Andy. Still, it makes more sense for him to fight using a wrench, so I would see him more borrowing moves from a bunch of characters; some weapons like Snake's Nikita and grenades and also Toon Link's short sword (remade into a wrench), probably mixed in with a bunch of kicks. Just like Captain Falcon doesn't really use the Blue Falcon and Fox doesn't use his Arwing, Andy doesn't necessarily have to use Advance Wars units.
Pros
-Would represent the largest franchise that isn't represented in Smash Bros
Cons
-Would need a lot of model work
-Would need custom sound effects
-Needs a lot of work to create from scratch
Sami (Advance Wars)
For a more detailed explanation of Advance Wars and the characters, read ChronoBound's post here.
Value - C - Secondary character of an unrepresented major series
Effort - A - Can be a Snake clone
Background - Sami is one of the Orange Star CO's in Advance War. A few missions into the first game, you get to choose a path where you either get to use her or Max for a few missions. She, along with the other characters, get larger roles in the sequels, where one of her main storylines is a hinted romance between her and a CO from Green Earth (another country), Eagle. Her main specialty is in infantry units. While her vehicles are weaker, her infantry are stronger, and more efficient, making her very adept at capturing cities very quickly...
Moveset - Given her infantry focus, Sami lends herself very much to being a clone of Snake. Although the Cipher might be a little weird, the other attacks can be easily translated and cloned.
Pros
-Would represent the largest franchise that isn't represented in Smash Bros
-Easily Snake cloneable
Cons
-Is a secondary character to a franchise that isn't even represented by its main character yet
-Would need a lot of model work
-Would need custom sound effects
Ridley (Metroid)
But he's too big!
Value - A - Fits the villain role for the Metroid series, which isn't oversaturated either.
Effort - B - Has a model in game... but he's gonna be a lot smaller. There's quite a bit of custom PSA work which can be used for some inspiration, at least.
Background/Reasoning - First of all, the size argument is pretty BS. Captain Olimar and Bowser already show that. Ridley has been shown to be only slightly larger than Samus at times, so shrinking him is fine. Anyways, Ridley is a recurring boss in the Metroid series, and is the most frequent and recognized enemy in the series. Most people here know who Ridley is. After all, he is a boss in Brawl too... Oh yeah, and he just happens to be one of the most requested characters ever since the Brawl speculation days.
Moveset - The moveset would have to be pretty unique, but many of the moves can borrow inspiration from hsi boss fight moves (obviously scaled down). The PSA linked above gives an example of one way it can be done.
Pros
-Incredibly strong fit, already in Brawl
-Extremely popular
Cons
-Some people still think he's too big, which is ********.
-Difficult model and animations. PSA's have been done though, so it's possible.
-Moveset from scratch
Dark Samus (Metroid)
The other big Metroid villain
Value - A - Probably most significant character in the franchise after Samus and Ridley, being the main antagonist of the Metroid Prime series.
Effort - A - Very clone-like. Many animations can be reused. Also some PSA work done that can be used as an example.
Background - If Ridley doesn't get in, then Dark Samus is an excellent alternative for franchise villain. While she isn't in most of the games like Ridley, she was at least the main protagonist for the largely successful Metroid Prime series (and unlike many other characters that have been suggested, she lasts through multiple games).
Moveset - She can share many animations with Samus, but also has her own unique moves. I imagine she'd be a very fast character (in contrast to Samus' slower playstyle), considering how she zips everywhere when you fight against her. Some animation changes can include making her move like Mewtwo (floating), as well as rolling like Mewtwo (disappearing and reappearing). Likewise, her projectiles would probably be weak scattershot Phazon attacks, in contrast to Samus' heavy-hitting ones. In general, her projectiles will probably be more energy-based rather than physical missiles like Samus'.
Here's an example of a Dark Samus PSA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2L-3cZLsY
Pros
-Super cloneable. Very easy to make a faster version of Samus
-Strong presence in the franchise
-Battles from her game can provide inspiration her a few unique moves and animations
-Probably would not have issues with sound clips either
-Popular choice
-Great backup option for another Metroid character (which is a series that does deserve another character) if Ridley can't make it
Cons
-Inferior choice to Ridley (but much more doable)
Isaac (Golden Sun)
"..."
Value - A - Original protagonist of a popular Nintendo RPG and another fairly big franchise that is unrepresented.
Effort - C - Assist trophy model already exists at least
Background - The main character of Golden Sun, one of the main Nintendo RPG franchises, developed by Camelot. It has three games, and Isaac is the protagonist in the first, and *SPOILERS*a party member in the second*SPOILERS*. Many people have said "Felix, because I like him more," but forget it. Felix was the second main character. There is absolutely no reason for him to be put in before Isaac -- unless the PMBR decide to put BOTH of them in (Felix as a clone). Isaac has seniority.
Moveset - Movesets with him can be pretty creative and based on his Psynergy abilities. Given that he mainly used swords in his game, that's pretty inevitable, but again he can have some kicks thrown in.
Pros
-Very strong fit.
-Represents a major unrepresented franchise
-One of the most popular characters and least divisive
Cons
-Uses swords, but his moveset can be mixed up with Psynergy.
-Decent chance of being in Wii/3DS
-Many Psynergy attacks may be difficult, if not impossible, to implement
Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
The only other Kong to have her own game
Value - A - Multiple appearances, had her own game. DK series has a small roster.
Effort - A - Can be clone-ified off Diddy with a few changes to incorporate her ponytail.
Background - Not much to say other than what I said above to justify her value. For those who didn't know, she was the secondary character in Donkey Kong Country 2 and then the main character in Donkey Kong Country 3. The only other DK character that has a legitimate spot for contention is King K. Rool. The big problem with him is that he's not really cloneable and should require his own moveset. I would rather err on the side of less work, and Dixie has been a more popular choice anyways.
Moveset - Her moveset would be cloned off Diddy, but many of her moves would involve her hair. The biggest question is if that's even possible to throw in these extra "limbs" for her and still make things work.
Pros
-Major DK character
-Cloneable (from Diddy)
-Lots of support from fans
-Appears in Brawl (I forget in what form)
Cons
-Decent chance of making it into Wii/3DS (per SunJester)
King K. Rool(Donkey Kong)
The main villain of Donkey Kong
Value - A - Main villain of the DK series. Quite popular
Effort - C - Has a bunch of unique moves that would require some serious work
Background - King K. Rool is the main antagonist of Donkey Kong series, often going by different names and themes (Kaptain K. Rool, Baron K. Roolenstein, King Krusha K. Rool, etc.), so he's quite versatile and of course, quite a major character.
Moveset - It's been suggested that K. Rool can use Dedede as a base. However, Dedede is a little too unique for K. Rool, starting with the floating and the hammer. While K. Rool has used a blunderbuss, it does not work at all like a hammer. It's been suggested that he can toss Kremlings instead of Waddle Dees, but I don't think that's possible because they're like items (correct me if I'm wrong). K. Rool has a whole host of unique moves, including shooting cannonballs, using his blunderbuss as a jet, and throwing his crown, to name a few. Unfortunately, these moves seem too unique to be implemented in a mod.
Pros
-Major DK villain
Cons
Very unique moveset that is very difficult to implement
-Decent chance of making it into Wii/3DS
Paper Mario (Paper Mario)
Like Game & Watch, but color
Value - B - Main character of the Paper Mario series. Is another version of Mario, who has quite a saturated series, but at the same time is different enough from Mario.
Effort - ? - Can be clone-ified off Mr. Game & Watch, but will also require a lot of his own moves.
I will just quote 820's post for this one:
Pros
-Can represent the Paper Mario series
-Cloneable from Mr. Game & Watch. Might be fairly simple to do.
Cons
-Yet another Mario character
-Might have technical limitations
Bowser Jr (Super Mario)
Bowser's kid who's been trying to make it big in the Mario games
Value - A - Mario villain who has become drastically more important to the series in recent years.
Effort - A - Bowser clone, but shrunk.
Background - Bowser Jr. is a character that has been becoming more and more integral to the Mario universe ever since he first appeared in Super Mario Sunshine. Since then, he has had a role in pretty much every Mario game since then (and unlike Waluigi, ACTUAL Mario games) as a recurring boss character... even going as far as to kick the Koopa Kids into irrelevance for a while. His appearance in a Mario game is pretty much quintessential now, and very few characters, have that significance (even Luigi doesn't always appear). His main negative as a candidate is that the Mario series is quite saturated. Although it can be easily argued that after Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach (and the other guys that got their own series), Bowser Jr. is the next most important character (or Toad, but there are many Toads...)
Moveset - Smaller, faster Bowser. Enough said, right??
Pros
-Major Mario character
-Easily cloneable
Cons
-Another Mario character
Toad (Super Mario)
Wants to be more than a B move
Value - B - Classic Mario character that has either been just a typical member of his species or a major playable character.
Effort - B - Can possibly be a Mario clone.
Background - I don't really need to explain who Toad is. But for his achievements, he was one of the playable main characters in SMB2, NSMB Wii, and the upcoming Super Mario 3D World. He was also the sole primary character in Wario's Woods. I'm probably forgetting a game, but whatever. One of the problems with Toad is also that he is quite generic. In NSMB Wii, he's one of two toads. But at the same, that hasn't stopped Yoshi much, either? The main issue with Toad is that he's already Peach's B move. It is unknown if he's going to be a character in SSB4, but given his role as Peach's B move there again, it's unlikely. For Project M though, it might not matter as much because Peach's B move can always be reassigned (or she can flash out Toadsworth instead).
Moveset - Most likely can be a clone of Mario, with some different specials, and a few different smash attacks that can involve using his massive head instead. See here for more
Pros
-Major Mario character
-Cloneable
-Has a sizeable support/fanbase
-Easy to port sounds for
Cons
-Another Mario character
-Generic Mario species that's not really a unique character of his own at times.
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
The guy who I always thought was a girl
Value - A - Main character of a franchise with two games
Effort - C - Would require his own moveset.
Background - The main character of Sin and Punishment, originally a Japanese-exclusive on rails shooter game before it was brought over to the US by virtual console and then got its own sequel. Aside from that, I couldn't tell you much (if anyone would like to write the rest of his background, be my guest. It's pretty sad on my part because I actually own Sin & Punishment, but it's been a while since I played it).
Moveset - I believe he uses a lot of shooting and sword attacks... Animation-wise, this might actually be fairly hard to pull off, since there's no character that has a gun and sword in one weapon like Saki does. See here for more discussion on Saki's moveset. Currently the best line of thought is using ZSS as a base.
Pros
-Main character of a franchise with two games
-Very popular and commonly requested
Cons
-Very complex moveset that might be hard to pull off
Krystal (Star Fox)
Because we need more Star Fox characters
Value - C - First appeared in a not-very popular Star Fox game during the series' slide
Effort - C - Would require her own moveset... unless you want ANOTHER clone.
Background - Krystal is frequently brought up as a character that deserves a slot. Maybe it's because she's female, but I don't understand where this comes from. She's a supporting character in a game that wasn't even meant to be a Star Fox game originally, and later joins as a teammate in later games. The series already has one teammate (Falco) and one rival (Wolf) though.
Pros
-Uses different weapons
-Female diversity?
-Appeared as a trophy in Brawl
-Very small chance of making it into Wii/3DS
Cons
-Supporting character of a 1) saturated franchise and 2) games of said franchise past its glory days (Star Fox 64)
-Would need a lot of work from models and animations to moveset to sounds
Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
Everyone's favorite loan shark
Value - A - Major Animal Crossing character. Fairly popular
Effort - C - Would probably have to be a unique character
Background - The shop owner and loan shark from Animal Crossing. I don't know too much about him since I never played AC, but apparently he's very annoying. As P:M cannot use the Villager because of SSB4, Tom Nook may actually work as a replacement Animal Crossing character. Interestingly, "IGN listed him as the ninth most-wanted character to appear in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. They describe him as devious, diabolical, and sinister, commenting that while he may not be a good fighter due to being from a video game without any fighting, they would enjoy seeing him get beaten up."
Moveset - I'm not sure if there's anyone who he could be cloned off of for the majority of his moves, and he'd probably need to develop a unique moveset. Here's an example.
Pros
-Major Animal Crossing character, and AC doesn't have a character in P:M
-Alternative to the Villager
-Was popularly requested in Brawl
Cons
-Would need a lot of work from models and animations to moveset to sounds
Masked Man/Claus (Mother)
Which name would it be??
Value - C - Another Mother character and a walking spoiler
Effort - A/B - Would obviously be cloned from Lucas
Discussion - http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...-thread-voting-results-updated.341479/page-28
Background - Claus, or the Masked Man, is one of the primary antagonists from Mother 3, and also Lucas' brainwashed brother (SPOILERS!). His very existence would be a spoiler, and Sheik is often used as a counterargument to that. A counter-counter argument to that is Sheik, while an important character, her alternate identity isn't crucial to the story, while Claus' is. And then another argument to that is that it's pretty obvious the Masked Man is Claus. Whatever.
Moveset - Would probably be heavily based off of Lucas, and if possible, incorporating his cannon arm and sword (forward smash instead of the stick) would be bonuses.
Pros
-Easily cloneable
-Should remain silent, just like in the game. Makes sounds easy, at least as far as voices go.
Cons
-For a small series, Mother already has enough representation
-Walking spoiler
NOTE: FOR THE THREE SONIC CHARACTERS LISTED BELOW...
While it doesn't specifically rule out the Sonic characters, it more or less does. I'll leave these guys around for now just in case, and if word comes out that explicitly stating these guys have no chance, I'll remove them. If you voted for these guys, you can recast your +1 vote.
Tails (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Sonic's Luigi
Value - B - Super iconic Sonic character. Sonic's sidekick from the very early days. But do we need a second character from a non-Nintendo (guest) franchise?
Effort - A - Pseudoclone, Luigi style. He can borrow many moves from Sonic, but also diverge in several, making him more Luigi-like than an actual clone. Still, much less work needed.
Background - Everyone knows who Tails is, so I shouldn't need to say much. If a Sonic character is to be considered, then it must go to Tails. However, the big question should be should another Sonic character even be considered in the first place? Remember this is a Nintendo game. Sonic and Snake are pretty much guests, and adding additional characters from their games is a little overkill. That being said, this is a mod, and the makers are free to do what they want.
Moveset - Sonic clone... Probably slower, but with multiple jumps and maybe even Peach-like floating?
Pros
-Second most iconic Sonic character. Third most popular
-Luigifiable
-So many Sonic fans. Feed their voracious hunger.
-Did appear in Brawl
-Very high chance of not making it into Wii/3DS
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
Knuckles (Sonic the Hedgehog)
The Echidna
Value - B - Super iconic Sonic character. But do we need a second character from a non-Nintendo (guest) franchise?
Effort - A - Pseudoclone, Luigi style. He can borrow many moves from Sonic, but also diverge in several, making him more Luigi-like than an actual clone. Still, much less work needed.
Background - Knuckles first appeared in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 as a brainwashed guy who got in Sonic's way. Since then he's been a rival and friend/ally of Sonic's, appearing in a ton of games afterwards. He is similar to Sonic, but he also has a glide and the ability to climb on ledges and walls. He is generally like the Wario to Mario in terms of fighting; much stronger and more physical. He also seems to be more popular as an option than tails, which is why I include him here.
Moveset - Sonic clone... But probably slower and packs a lot more punch (literally), including heavier smash attacks and finishers than Sonic. He could probably also have a glide component
Pros
-Fourth most popular Sonic character
-Luigifiable
-Apparently more popular as a choice than Tails
-So many Sonic fans. Feed their voracious hunger.
-Did appear in Brawl
-Very high chance of not making it into Wii/3DS
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Because people keep bringing him up
Value - C - Why Shadow over Tails?
Effort - A - Cloneable, a lot of PSA work done
Background - The darker version of Sonic. I'll save this for someone who knows more about Shadow.
Moveset - Obviously a Sonic clone, but he has some moves of his own that could be incorporated. I'll save this for someone who knows more about Shadow.
Pros
-Cloneable
-Second most popular Sonic character
-Lots of PSA work done.
-So many Shadow fans. Feed their voracious hunger.
-Almost guaranteed of not making it into Wii/3DS
-Assist trophy (thanks, Rikana)
Cons
-Yet another 3rd party character
I see, yes I agree. For now let's focus on this (argueably long overdue) task though.
QQQQQQQ7777777
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 2,300
I don't have time to boot the game up so I'll provid as much as I can off my head (these will include the standard recolors):
Mario 10/10
Wario 12/12 (Only character with 12 costume slots)
Luigi 7/10
Peach 8?/10
Bowser 7/10
DK: 7/10
Diddy: 6/10
Ivysaur: 6/20
Squirtle: 6/10
Charizard: 6/10
Mewtwo: 8/10
Lucario: 6/10
Marth: 6/10
Roy: 6/10
Ike: 6/10
Kirby: 6/10
Sonic: 6/10
Link: 9/10
Zelda/Sheik: 6/10
Ganon: 6/10
Captain Falcon: 6/10
Toon Link: 7/10
Sorry I couldn't help out more
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
Fixed
Good stuff guys. I'd hoped there was a list ready for us to use, but I'll boot up the game now and count the costumes for the remaining characters.
Edit: here's the list of occupied costume slots per character:
The characters bolded, in red and marked with a * can't be voted for: they already have all their costume slots filled and we assume that there will not be any costumes removed.
Here's the list of how many votes everyone has (thus, how many costume slots each character has left) for the characters that are still eligible for alternate costumes:
And here's the list of costume slots per character organized from most slots left to least slots left:
Also, I have thought up a voting system that might work best:
- Everyone gets the same amount of votes per character as the amount of costume slots said character has
(For example: everyone has five votes for alternate costumes for Sonic, as Sonic is in the 5 slots (green) category)
- Everyone has to list their alt. costume choices from most wanted to least wanted (if they post more than one for a character): this means that the maximum number of costumes on this list corresponds to the maximum slots each character has left
(For example: for Luigi, one can make a list of 3 costumes ordered from the one you would like to see most to the one you would like to see, but not as much as the one you placed at the top of your Luigi list of max. 3 costumes.
- To take into account that a choice for a characters' last costume slot (Link) has more weight than one for a character with more character slots left I've devised a system based on the above:
1. For Sonic (5 slots left) the costume someone nominates as their first choice (number 1 on their list) will grant that costume 5 popularity points. The second choice 4, the third choice 3, the fourth 2 and the last 1.
2. This counts for all categories, so for Diddy Kong (with 4 slots left) someone's FIRST choice will net that costume FOUR points, as the list can consist of FOUR costumes: NOT five, like with Sonic (as he is the only character with five slots left). In the same way, someone's first choice for a costume for Luigi (as he has 3 slots left) will award that costume THREE points, and so on.
3. People are not forced to make lists the length of the amount of slots a character has left, but this makes people think about which costumes they want most (and award the most points in that category to) and will in this way make the most popular costumes have the most points and it will be harder to differentiate the costume choices for Link, as his costumes can only be award one point max. (as should be, as it's Link's final costume slot).
If someone has only 1 character wish for sonic (for example), then that wish will award that costume 5 points. The points awarded only decrease for subsequent choices of the same person (so, again, no one is forced to make lists longer than they wish to make).
This might come across as needlessly complicated at first, but it's actually quite simple and it's a way to fine tune the voting system to the character slots available.
A worked out example for a possible post in the new thread:
Toon Link
1. Minish Cap outfit (3 popularity points to this outfit)
2. Conductor outfit (2 popularity points to this outfit)
3. A Link Between Worlds Red tunic colors (1 popularity point to this outfit)
There can be no fourth nomination, because Toon Link has only three slots left (and, using this voting system, the fourth choice would be worth zero points anyway).
I thought this up just now and there might be flaws I'm not seeing right now, so please let me know what you guys think.
Edit: here's the list of occupied costume slots per character:
*Wario 12/12
*Mario 10/10
Luigi 7/10
Peach 8/10
Bowser 7/10
*Yoshi 10/10
Donkey Kong 7/10
Diddy Kong 6/10
Captain Falcon 6/10
Wolf 7/10
*Fox 10/10
*Falco 10/10
Ice Climbers 6/10
Zelda 6/10
Sheik 6/10
Link 9/10
Toon Link 7/10
Ganondorf 6/10
Mewtwo 7/10
Lucario 6/10
Pikachu 6/10
Jigglypuff 7/10
Squirtle 6/10
Ivysaur 6/10
Charizard 6/10
Samus 6/10
Zero Suit Samus 6/10
Lucas 7/10
Ness 7/10
Pit 6/10
Kirby 6/10
Metaknight 7/10
King DeDeDe 6/10
Ike 6/10
Marth 6/10
Roy 6/10
Olimar 7/10
ROB 7/10
Mr. Game and Watch 6/10
Snake 6/10
Sonic 5/10
*Mario 10/10
Luigi 7/10
Peach 8/10
Bowser 7/10
*Yoshi 10/10
Donkey Kong 7/10
Diddy Kong 6/10
Captain Falcon 6/10
Wolf 7/10
*Fox 10/10
*Falco 10/10
Ice Climbers 6/10
Zelda 6/10
Sheik 6/10
Link 9/10
Toon Link 7/10
Ganondorf 6/10
Mewtwo 7/10
Lucario 6/10
Pikachu 6/10
Jigglypuff 7/10
Squirtle 6/10
Ivysaur 6/10
Charizard 6/10
Samus 6/10
Zero Suit Samus 6/10
Lucas 7/10
Ness 7/10
Pit 6/10
Kirby 6/10
Metaknight 7/10
King DeDeDe 6/10
Ike 6/10
Marth 6/10
Roy 6/10
Olimar 7/10
ROB 7/10
Mr. Game and Watch 6/10
Snake 6/10
Sonic 5/10
The characters bolded, in red and marked with a * can't be voted for: they already have all their costume slots filled and we assume that there will not be any costumes removed.
Here's the list of how many votes everyone has (thus, how many costume slots each character has left) for the characters that are still eligible for alternate costumes:
Luigi 3
Peach 2
Bowser 3
Donkey Kong 3
Diddy Kong 4
Captain Falcon 4
Wolf 3
Ice Climbers 4
Zelda 4
Sheik 4
Link 1
Toon Link 3
Ganondorf 4
Mewtwo 3
Lucario 4
Pikachu 4
Jigglypuff 3
Squirtle 4
Ivysaur 4
Charizard 4
Samus 4
Zero Suit Samus 4
Lucas 3
Ness 3
Pit 4
Kirby 4
Metaknight 3
King DeDeDe 4
Ike 4
Marth 4
Roy 4
Olimar 3
ROB 3
Mr. Game and Watch 4
Snake 4
Sonic 5
Peach 2
Bowser 3
Donkey Kong 3
Diddy Kong 4
Captain Falcon 4
Wolf 3
Ice Climbers 4
Zelda 4
Sheik 4
Link 1
Toon Link 3
Ganondorf 4
Mewtwo 3
Lucario 4
Pikachu 4
Jigglypuff 3
Squirtle 4
Ivysaur 4
Charizard 4
Samus 4
Zero Suit Samus 4
Lucas 3
Ness 3
Pit 4
Kirby 4
Metaknight 3
King DeDeDe 4
Ike 4
Marth 4
Roy 4
Olimar 3
ROB 3
Mr. Game and Watch 4
Snake 4
Sonic 5
And here's the list of costume slots per character organized from most slots left to least slots left:
5 slots left:
Sonic
4 slots left:
Diddy Kong
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf
Lucario
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
Kirby
King DeDeDe
Ike
Marth
Roy
Mr. Game and Watch
Snake
3 slots left:
Luigi
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Wolf
Toon Link
Mewtwo
Jigglypuff
Lucas
Ness
Metaknight
Olimar
ROB
2 slots left:
Peach
1 slot left:
Link
0 slots left (thus not eligible for voting)
Wario
Mario
Yoshi
Fox
Falco
Sonic
4 slots left:
Diddy Kong
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf
Lucario
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
Kirby
King DeDeDe
Ike
Marth
Roy
Mr. Game and Watch
Snake
3 slots left:
Luigi
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Wolf
Toon Link
Mewtwo
Jigglypuff
Lucas
Ness
Metaknight
Olimar
ROB
2 slots left:
Peach
1 slot left:
Link
0 slots left (thus not eligible for voting)
Wario
Mario
Yoshi
Fox
Falco
Also, I have thought up a voting system that might work best:
- Everyone gets the same amount of votes per character as the amount of costume slots said character has
(For example: everyone has five votes for alternate costumes for Sonic, as Sonic is in the 5 slots (green) category)
- Everyone has to list their alt. costume choices from most wanted to least wanted (if they post more than one for a character): this means that the maximum number of costumes on this list corresponds to the maximum slots each character has left
(For example: for Luigi, one can make a list of 3 costumes ordered from the one you would like to see most to the one you would like to see, but not as much as the one you placed at the top of your Luigi list of max. 3 costumes.
- To take into account that a choice for a characters' last costume slot (Link) has more weight than one for a character with more character slots left I've devised a system based on the above:
1. For Sonic (5 slots left) the costume someone nominates as their first choice (number 1 on their list) will grant that costume 5 popularity points. The second choice 4, the third choice 3, the fourth 2 and the last 1.
2. This counts for all categories, so for Diddy Kong (with 4 slots left) someone's FIRST choice will net that costume FOUR points, as the list can consist of FOUR costumes: NOT five, like with Sonic (as he is the only character with five slots left). In the same way, someone's first choice for a costume for Luigi (as he has 3 slots left) will award that costume THREE points, and so on.
3. People are not forced to make lists the length of the amount of slots a character has left, but this makes people think about which costumes they want most (and award the most points in that category to) and will in this way make the most popular costumes have the most points and it will be harder to differentiate the costume choices for Link, as his costumes can only be award one point max. (as should be, as it's Link's final costume slot).
If someone has only 1 character wish for sonic (for example), then that wish will award that costume 5 points. The points awarded only decrease for subsequent choices of the same person (so, again, no one is forced to make lists longer than they wish to make).
This might come across as needlessly complicated at first, but it's actually quite simple and it's a way to fine tune the voting system to the character slots available.
A worked out example for a possible post in the new thread:
Toon Link
1. Minish Cap outfit (3 popularity points to this outfit)
2. Conductor outfit (2 popularity points to this outfit)
3. A Link Between Worlds Red tunic colors (1 popularity point to this outfit)
There can be no fourth nomination, because Toon Link has only three slots left (and, using this voting system, the fourth choice would be worth zero points anyway).
I thought this up just now and there might be flaws I'm not seeing right now, so please let me know what you guys think.
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Mansta
(￣^￣)ゞ
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I think G&W should get Gameboy and Virtual Boy color schemes, but they would kind of be redundant because of the green and red colors already in the game.
Dr.Uppercut
Smash Rookie
I know it's probs been said somewhere but since the new list n stuff is up gunna throw it out again. I just want Clone charizard as a colour for him, it's easy and stylish and would go with the fact mewtwo got his armor from the movie
IceDX
Smash Ace
Phantom Ganon please!!
here are my other votes:
melee ganon
melee sheik
metal sonic
minish cap toon link
mega charizard X
armored lucario (kinda like mewtwos armor)
here are my other votes:
melee ganon
melee sheik
metal sonic
minish cap toon link
mega charizard X
armored lucario (kinda like mewtwos armor)
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QQQQQQQ7777777
Smash Champion
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but Phantom ganon isn't Ganon, he's a clone of Ganon.
IceDX
Smash Ace
having it as a alt costume would still look awesome imo.. id settle for a revamp of melee ganon, i just dont like brawl style ganon i guess
LeeYawshee
Smash Ace
I personally think this is perfect.
QQQQQQQ7777777
Smash Champion
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What if someone wants to change/remove one of their votes? What if someone's popularity power level passes 9000?
Awesome. If more people agree then this might be the way the thread will get done.
We could permit an X amount of vote changes per person. Also, it'd be nice if someone from the PMBR approved of this or at least monitored how this all turns out, as this all means nothing if the PMBR isn't notified. They could also clarify when it's best to count votes: they could install one or several deadlines (before or between which people can use one of their X amount of vote changes to be taken into consideration for the (next) deadline).
This is all fun, but without the PMBR members' participation/approval this is all basically meaningless.
The PMBR members might also confirm if the current list of alt. costume slots is up to date (maybe they've already decided on some costumes, which alters the list and the way people can vote for the characters involved).
I'll approach someone from the PMBR to maybe get the ball rolling.
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