Please tell me that 3-stock isn't the new tourney standard

[RedMage8BT]

I HATE 3-stock. I want it die in a PK Fire.

 

[Dante X]

Why? What's wrong with it?

 

[Yoshipal13]

It may get moved back to 4, who knows. The game is starting to become quicker than we initially thought, and it can only get quicker.

 

[unii]

three stock would be fun and evo would like that too. 3 stcoks 3 out of 5 games would be sick thats what are local tournaments do

 

[RedMage8BT]

I just really don't like it. It's not that I'm "used" to 4-stock. I'd be fine with 5-stock if it didn't take so long. Three just seems too low IMO. 4 already seemed low.

 

[shurf]

Since I always played 3-stock in Melee, this seems fine for me. Matches take a little while in Brawl anyway, so I welcome this change. I wouldn't mind 4-stock though.

 

[Phyvo]

I think you might get fewer close games with 4 stock, which would be nice for sure.

 

[slartibartfast42]

As someone who is considering maining ZSS, the thought came to me: If the suit pieces that spawn at the beginning of a match dominate the first life, is it fair to have stock as low as 3? I think that the stock will probably have to be 5 maybe 4 to balance it out. Otherwise people will complain that they didn't have time to catch up after getting owned in the first life by good use of suit pieces.

Just a thought.

 

[xanst]

It's pretty easy to catch thrown items, so I don't think that that will be such a big problem.

 

[slartibartfast42]

I didn't think so, but there have been matches where I took a stock without getting hit because of good tactics with the suit pieces, then the end of the match is really close, and I can't help but think that I would have lost if not for the suit pieces. Then again, it's been the other way around. I get hit away and the other guy pwns me with suit pieces, then I barely lose and think I would have won with more stock to balance it out.

 

[Mic_128]

Zamus item pieces are fine, just like any other item-based projectile in the game. If your opponent can't dodge/shield/catch them, that's their bad luck. If you win because of your skill with the pieces, good work.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

With 4 stocks and the new campy style most brawlers have, 4-stock matches would last 8-10 minutes each.

3 is fine.

 

[Xiivi]

4 stock in melee was not decided on for a fairly long time until after the game's release. It was one of many East vs. West coast compromises I believe. 4 stock in melee was perfectly fine once the metagame had developed. There were many gimp kills accessible in melee, and 4 stock helped solve the problem with 3 stock that gimp kills presented. Also, 5 stock was simply too long, 4 stock matches could be completed within a reasonable time. They almost never went past the 6 or even 5 minute marks. Thus matches could be completed very quickly without a single gimp kill losing you the game (although it did put the pressure on you, which was good. It didn't become a win-all, but a very good pressure mechanism for matches.)

Now, what's currently different with brawl? Currently, the metagame isn't that well developed, it's still in very early phases. Gimp kills are few and far between limited to things such as Bowser-suicides (which isn't even that much of a gimp kill if you aren't already ahead). Thus 3-stock does not get ruined by simple-quick gimp kills (since they really don't exist). Also, players have become much less aggressive and more campy. This will likely remain the case until players have gotten used to ALL of the game mechanics. Once players have adequate knowledge of how to play each specific match-up (or eventually just the most common match-ups) and how to best use their character(s) on different stages, then we will see a speed up in game-play. At the recent brawl tournament I hosted, I noticed that the top players in the tournament finished their sets at a much better pace than the other players. This was simply due to them being much more comfortable with the game and not resorting to all-out camping. Once the majority of players reach this level of familiarity then the 3-stock rule might be subject to change.

However, it may stay. Even with players becoming much more comfortable with the game it could eventually boil down to players have become used to 3-stock. There is currently nothing wrong with 3-stock stock. 4-stock will probably be easily acceptable in the future, as I'm sure matches will once again consistently be between 2-4 minutes in length. However, unless 3-stock matches prove to be either too fast or gimp kills begin to become widely used and actually taken advantage of. I see either 3-stock or 4-stock being equally viable at this point.

 

[Bailey]

You really don't need a wall of text in this thread like at all.

Yes it is 3. You don't like it, we don't care.

 

[AXE 09]

i think 3 stock is perfect for brawl. 4 stock takes WAY too long. in melee, 4 stocks usually took me about maybe 2 minutes. if brawl players eventually start killing their opponents faster like in melee, then i can see 4 stock being reasonable. but for right now, how long it takes to kill someone, i think 3 is perfect. sometimes i even think about lowering it to 2 lives lol

 

[Phyvo]

You really don't need a wall of text in this thread like at all.

Yes it is 3. You don't like it, we don't care.

I found that wall of text very informative and am glad that Xiivi posted it to this thread regardless of whatever "need" you perceived.

Thanks Xiivi.

 

[Cecilia K.]

I found that wall of text very informative and am glad that Xiivi posted it to this thread regardless of whatever "need" you perceived.

Thanks Xiivi.

That wall of text could've been summarized in 2 sentences.

 

[Phyvo]

Yes, it could have.

...

Your point?

 

[Grand Champion]

4 stock matches are longer in Brawl than in Melee

 

[XSilvenX]

3 stock is decent.

Know how long Samus vs Peach took in melee?! Forever..... or even worse a Peach ditto... I don't even want to imagine how long the campy games in Brawl take. Thank god I main Ike and nobody gets to camp when I play Ike lulz.

 

[Cecilia K.]

Yes, it could have.

...

Your point?

Like Bailey obviously said, it wasn't necessary. We all know this.

 

[Phyvo]

Bailey: It was way too long. Also, I'm tired of people like the TC.

Me: It was just fine. I like it the way it is because it helped me personally.

You: But it was way too long.

Me: Err... how was that supposed to affect my opinion?

You: It was way too long. Also, you would agree with me if you were a rational person.

...

...

See the problem here?

 

[Deleted member]

Unless you find an entire set of tournament players who will play aggro the whole time, 4 stock will take too long... 3 is just right for the moment... it may change, it may not... Brawl came out 3 weeks ago, chill out...

 

[solecalibur]

I always enjoy 3 stock i have gone more and less but 3 should be enough I wouldnt mind 4 but it would be difficult to get to use to at least I have thought about lower as well but nah 3 is the default and i'll stick to it i guess

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

 

[ellelaby]

Since I always played 3-stock in Melee, this seems fine for me. Matches take a little while in Brawl anyway, so I welcome this change. I wouldn't mind 4-stock though.

I agree.

I played 3 in Melee too.

I think 4 in Brawl is just fine and I suppose 3 is also good.

 

[Shaman]

ZSS's suit pieces aren't exactly the same as another characters item projectiles, i hardly think i need to point out the difference other than the fact that they are high damage high knock back projectiles that are round initially available which is unlike say banana's low impact not round initial, or robs top high impact several second charge time...

that said, once i get a little more accustomed to the catching mechanics in the game, I doubt the suit pieces will give much trouble. but I wouldn't disagree with anyone who complained the pieces gave ZSS an edge at round initial position.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

4 stock in melee was not decided on for a fairly long time until after the game's release. It was one of many East vs. West coast compromises I believe. 4 stock in melee was perfectly fine once the metagame had developed. There were many gimp kills accessible in melee, and 4 stock helped solve the problem with 3 stock that gimp kills presented. Also, 5 stock was simply too long, 4 stock matches could be completed within a reasonable time. They almost never went past the 6 or even 5 minute marks. Thus matches could be completed very quickly without a single gimp kill losing you the game (although it did put the pressure on you, which was good. It didn't become a win-all, but a very good pressure mechanism for matches.)

Now, what's currently different with brawl? Currently, the metagame isn't that well developed, it's still in very early phases. Gimp kills are few and far between limited to things such as Bowser-suicides (which isn't even that much of a gimp kill if you aren't already ahead). Thus 3-stock does not get ruined by simple-quick gimp kills (since they really don't exist). Also, players have become much less aggressive and more campy. This will likely remain the case until players have gotten used to ALL of the game mechanics. Once players have adequate knowledge of how to play each specific match-up (or eventually just the most common match-ups) and how to best use their character(s) on different stages, then we will see a speed up in game-play. At the recent brawl tournament I hosted, I noticed that the top players in the tournament finished their sets at a much better pace than the other players. This was simply due to them being much more comfortable with the game and not resorting to all-out camping. Once the majority of players reach this level of familiarity then the 3-stock rule might be subject to change.

However, it may stay. Even with players becoming much more comfortable with the game it could eventually boil down to players have become used to 3-stock. There is currently nothing wrong with 3-stock stock. 4-stock will probably be easily acceptable in the future, as I'm sure matches will once again consistently be between 2-4 minutes in length. However, unless 3-stock matches prove to be either too fast or gimp kills begin to become widely used and actually taken advantage of. I see either 3-stock or 4-stock being equally viable at this point.

Your post was BEAUTY man, Perfectly said.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

I have almost always done 3-stock. The matches take a while with me, and if I go higher, they take forever.


.....that's why we have the 6:00 minute(or did it change after Brawl?) stock time limit.

 

[slartibartfast42]

A tourney I went to it was 3 stock 8 minute. I don't know if that is standard though.

3 stock is decent.

Know how long Samus vs Peach took in melee?! Forever..... or even worse a Peach ditto... I don't even want to imagine how long the campy games in Brawl take. Thank god I main Ike and nobody gets to camp when I play Ike lulz.

Jigglypuff dittos in melee last the longest ab in my experience. No one uses rest since a miss means death and jiggs can't combo herself into it, and since everyone stays airborne, there are no smashes for finishing people off either. It just turns out into a very drawn out spacing game where no one dies until they're over 150% <.<

Anyway, I really like brawl being 3 stock standard, it leaves more time open for melee matches.

 

[Rebel581]

The game is decently fast now, and it may go to 4 stock at some point. But 3 stock seems decent at this point. Tope also told me that he thought 4 stock, 8 minutes was too long. 3 stock, 7 minutes, has been working fine for me in friendly matches.

 

[battousai555]

Bailey: It was way too long. Also, I'm tired of people like the TC.

Me: It was just fine. I like it the way it is because it helped me personally.

You: But it was way too long.

Me: Err... how was that supposed to affect my opinion?

You: It was way too long. Also, you would agree with me if you were a rational person.

...

...

See the problem here?

Yes, the problem is that you don't know how to quote properly.

 

[takeurlife2]

3 stock matches between better players take around 4-6 minutes.

the more campy matches take around 5-7 minutes

tbh i think 4+ stock would take far too long; therefore, some respectable tournaments will have to do 1/1 rounds instead of 2/3 due to the time contstraints. (i shouldnt have to explain why 1/1 matches are a terrible idea.)

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

3 stock seems fine for now, it takes approximately as long for a 3 stock Brawl match as it does a 4 stock Melee match unless we're comparing something like Zelda or Peach dittos in either game. The faster matchups in Brawl take 2-3 minutes for 3 stock, which was average for a faster matchup in Melee. I could see us moving it to 4 stocks if people in general get better at gimping.

 

[omegawhitemage]

As someone who is considering maining ZSS, the thought came to me: If the suit pieces that spawn at the beginning of a match dominate the first life, is it fair to have stock as low as 3? I think that the stock will probably have to be 5 maybe 4 to balance it out. Otherwise people will complain that they didn't have time to catch up after getting owned in the first life by good use of suit pieces.

Just a thought.

So either don't play her, or don't suck. No John's. Either way your reasoning is ********.

Anyway, matches are three stock atm because of how much longer Brawl matches take. I know people have already said this, but eventually once the game speeds up the stock limit might also rise. But I know from a TO's standpoint that until it is proven that 4-stock matches won't take a full 8mins+ then I would never raise the stock amount above 3.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

3 is fine i've been to 2 tourney's alredy and it feels rigth if you lose your stock too fast then you just suck
(yippe posting from work)

 

[Chexr]

I don't really like 3 stock and I dont really see why it swiched from 4. The matches aren't too much longer than melee unless you've got two people who never approach (see OS and Jiano). Even though 1 stocks only about an extra 60 seconds.

3 stocks makes it so one mistake and its over, almost impossible to catch up. 4 stocks allows the time for someone to make a comeback.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Chexr why don't we try 4-stock at an MN tourney soon

I noticed that Yoshii's Brawl tourney ended about an hour sooner than the Melee tournaments he hosts, and we even started late