Changing Olimar Match-Up
there were some conflicting opinions on olimar, i erred with Hydde's analysis. most agree that squirtle is a red, but ivysaur and charizard range from neutral to super effective. ivysaur is okay, but you are OUTRANGED by olimar, and range is usually what ivysaur prides itself in. however, you still have razor leaves at your disposal. so i think this is neutral.
charizard is a favorite because he can kill pikmin with both ft and rocks but olimar can completely WRECK you in the air. and that's how you are going to be approaching olimar most of the time, so if a good olimar decides to go on the offensive, i think you are in trouble. neutral imo, all things considered.
but if you do disagree (and i know a few of you do), feel free to explain...but REALLY explain. perhaps we need a good handful of judgments to settle it?
not sure on the ivy vs squirtle debate, i got one neutral and one in ivy's favor. i'll go with ivy for now, but if you disagree, feel free to explain!
Basically a great, short explanation.
Currently Olimar is set at Squirtle =
Neutral, Ivysaur =
Neutral, Charizard =
Super Effective
I am proposing:
Squirtle: =
Disadvantage,
Ivysaur: =
Neutral.,
Charizard: =
Neutral
My friend now decided that olimar will be his main for sure and has put Marth back to second. What this means is that i play an olly that has the ability to go from defense shield grab smash or range and immediately change it into an offensive marth-like short creature that has range on top of it. Bear with me here... long explanations.. and long post.
Here are what i could find on the Olimar discussion for a review for all.
Olimar:
I fought for first time a good campy olimar yesterday and this was what i notcied.
Squirtle: Disadvantage.
Definitely the less efective of the 3. His range is too small to beat a campy olimar. Not to mention that Olimar smashes allof em hurt a lot and has wide range. Like someone said before, what hurts the most is the aerial slap. Ull find urself working A LOT to hit him, and he will hit you wirth ease and built up much more damage than you. But all is not lost. If u really wanna use squirt, there is one tactic that totally pwns olimar, and is WATERGUN. Olimar gets gimped by water gun so easily that is insane. If by luck, you are able to put him out of the stage, always always have a water gun charged and blast it right in his face. Sometimes Olimar will try to throw piks at you, and will be a little careless with his pikkin rope. The watergun can be the difference in space he needed to get back.
I wouls suggest using squrlte just when Olimar is in high %, since squirts aerials have good knockback, and his downthrow is very nice, u can set up a water gun trap... if not, is not worth the effort-.
Charizard: Neutral
Well, this battle is not easy. Olimar can rag up damage like crazy, and when h gets you airborne, you will be in some trouble as u become a very big flying pinhata. Rry to stay ground as much as you can. If he starts spamming piks, burn them to his death and take a close eye on how much piks he has left. There will be one moment when he will have to recharge or move,, use that moment to get close and land more Fters. If you get in range try to use ur down or forwward tilts. Sometimes aerial rok smashes will protect you when advancing to him.
Ivysaur: Neutral.
Not an easy task either. To try to get to him, you can try to spam war against him with ur leaves, but be sure that ull lose in the damage department, some of his pikmins will hit you and get much much more damage. Why i do this? because some of ur leaves will hit him too, creating an opportunity to continue approaching. U can try to get to him with an aerial leaf, and then f smash... or this other tactic:
I have noticed that when u are at medium range of him, the forward tilt almost totally nullifies his pikmins and also the last bit of the animation sometimes tend to hit olimar, creating that much needed flinch animation u want. If u are carefull, spam this in his face and then force him to move or change tactics, from there u must find a way to predict his moves and attack. The con of this tactic is his grab range, u must be predicting when u think he will grab you instead of throwing another pikmin, which is not easy, but the pros are better than the cons. Is a very nice way to break his pikmin camping. If he gets u airborne try to land a bak air just to flinch him, escape right away and reorganize urself.
Dont do mindless aerial approaches because ull pay dearly.
When he gets you out of the stage, tryto lure him out with a leaf, and if all is lost, my last tip will be to aim carefully the UP B and surprise him. I have killed a lot of edgehoggers because of this,. They think that u are done when they are hoged. In fact u are done but u have ur last card. Use ur sweetspotted uPB to take them down with you. But it must be sweetspotted. Its too much fun to see them dying in early % because of being stage spiked.
Totally correct with squirtle. Ivysaur is indeed a tough battle.. but better off than squirtle.
I have a suggestion for Olimar.
Squirtle
not good/!?!/! :O. But really, I find squirtle's aerial game gets dominated by most fast characters that have DISJOINTED HITBOXES (Olimar's pikmin slapping fairs and the like). The reason this doesn't apply to Ike is because he is too slow, but for Olimar, you had better work your butt off to get those aerials to connect before he slaps you with a red, yellow, or purple Pikmin. Though Olimar's forward+B is almost ineffective due to Squirtle's size, his aerial game is limited and his short attack range is dominated by Olimar's exceptional smash range. (As a side note, if you DO get forward+B pikmin latched onto you, use your own forward + B (withdraw) to get rid of em).
Ivysaur
has razor leaf, the only projectile you will get on PT. Now, this is not much use against the pikmin themselves, but it will hamper Olimar as he doesn't have too much to get through razor leaf with. Your leaf will cut pikmin if they are in midair while being launched at you, and ivysaur is still pretty short. You can match Olimar's range on the ground with Fsmash and even ftilt to a certain extent, and you still have razor leaf. Your shieldgrab range isn't going to work against a spaced Olimar, however. In the air, the range you get with fair and bair, as well as the disjointed hitboxes of uair and dair allow you to handle Olimar as he comes at you, as well as kill pikmin even if your hits don't connect. Overall, Ivy can space pretty well against Olimar and hold his ground.
Charizard
One thing to watch out for: You are going to be the slower character. The reason Charizard can be very effective is because of dtilt and ftilt. You can match Olimar's range using these two attacks, as well as flamethrower (which can decimate pikmin 
). Rock smash is a pretty safe move here, and the leftover chunks can kill pikmin as well. Dsmash is a pretty fast smash that will kill pikmin and Olimar. You can face up to Olimar's fair with your own fair, but it does not work quite as well. Rock smash may be the better, though slower, choice for aerial encounters face to face. Overall, Charizard can kill pikmin , really leaving Olimar with leaf pikmin rather than flower pikmin, and keeping him from pulling all purples since you're going to be killing some of them
Correct with Squirtle... disagree with the other two however.
I respect nc-echo and his status, but the reason I dislike Squirtle so much against Olimar is because Olimar can be just as fast with more range. As echo said, those smashes (especially the D-smash) are fast and outrange anything Squirtle has. In the air, Olimar may have a tougher time with Squirtle for echo, but I much prefer the long ranged fair of Ivysaur, or the fire/ long tail of Charizard. Squirtle's aerials really have little range and you have to be touching Olimar. For the dair, I have personally been destroyed by Usmash when closing in an an Olimar, so I'm not sure that Squirtle can just go through it. Not to mention that Dair doesn't actually hit below Squirtle, it just covers his body. This means that if Olimar stays grounded, he can deal with Squirtle whether he is on the ground OR in the air.
Charizard, now, can deal with a grounded Olimar by the reach of flamethrower, rock smash, and the range of things like Fsmash, dtilt, and ftilt.
So here starts the analysis:
Squirtle: Disadvantage
A good Olly is one of the worst matchups that squirtle will ever come across. A good Olly will camp a squirtle and make you approach. If you don't.. you will get bombarded with Pikmin. You can play all the mind games you want.. but you will have to approach eventually. If the Olly is good.. they will bob and weave as they throw so they don't sit still. Once you get to them you have to watch out for the ridiculous grab range. Once you get caught in that.. you really have to work to get away and back to your own ground.. then you are right back to where you started. If you approach from the air with a Fair.. you will most likely get shielded. Since Olly is so low.. it is very hard to get the Fair off and not have the lag upon landing. If you manage to land behind Olly and try to attack you have to watch out for one of the fastest down smashes i have ever seen. Squirtle is so light.. that if you are hit with it you will go flying. There is also a sweet spot on Olly's down smash where he can hit you with both the pikmin used. You have to be on top of him for it to happen.. but it hits hard.
Its hard to do but you can fight as squirtle. Never stop moving and always keep Olly guessing. Empty SH into grab or jab combo with tilts in between. If you get him into the air.. FF in between aerials so you stay out of range of Olly's fair. Moves are difficult to link together due to Olly's size. If Squirtle comes out and Olly has high damage.. you stand a good chance of getting the kill. Just don't expect to get it right away. Down throw.. up smash.. a fresh fair.. or dair can do it.. but it is hard.
Conclusion.. Squirtle has to work too hard to approach and to get the damage on.. and will most of the time end up losing the percentage battle. You are both light.. but overall Olly has the advantage the whole time.
Squirtle: =
Disadvantage
Ivysaur: Neutral.
Ivy tends to have an easier time against Olly than Squirtle... but you still don't have an advantage. You can spam razor leafs to slow Olly down.. but like Hydde said.. you will lose in the damage department if that is all you do. Only use it to slow down Olly and then approach during the flinch frames. If you can get a bullet seed off.. congrats but don't hold it long as Olly is light and can get out relatively fast. Stay out of the air as much as possible unless retreating with Bairs. Approach in the air and expect to get punished for it. Olly can gimp you easier than vis versa. Olly has more aerial control and can win the air battles.
I like to mix in ftilts and dtilts to keep Olly back. Use the razor leaf for a distraction or stun properties. You can land a SH fair as long as you start it while rising and as soon as the flick is done start DI'ing back so as not to get punished. Most of the time it doesn't hit.. but makes Olly back off so you can get well needed space. Uair is one of your most reliable killing moves of Olly.. but don't get predictable with it. Try to Full hop.. don't uair hopefully they will air dodge.. FF to get below them again.. use your double jump and then Uair immediately. It is hard to land and only works if they don't expect you to do it. Usmash is a great killer.. but too hard to get off.. if you can.. i applaud you.. i get punished for it.
Overall.. Ivy has a chance and can move some things to his favor but it never lasts long and you seem to be on constant retreat trying to gain position.. but once gained.. you can hold Olly off and get damage put on him.
Ivysaur: =
Neutral.
Charizard: Neutral
Charizards pure power and ability to survive are the only reason to make him neutral. The ability to hit hard the few times he can get hits in...even up the match a bit. Olly will pound you in the air due to how slow you are. Try to approach in the air as little as possible. Try to dash into shield grab or roll behind and go into jabs. Charizard creates a huge target for the pikmin latch and they are hard to get off as charizard. Rock smash and down smash are effective at getting them off. But using both leave you open for an approach from Olly. You can be chain grabbed if you don't DI correctly so watch out for those combos. Once you are in the air.. Olly can land multiple fairs into uairs on you. the damage can rack up fast if he latched a pikmin to you before he started. Olly's smashes come out quick and he can link multiple together really fast.. so be careful.
If you do approach from the air... Nair is a good choice if you auto cancel it and don't have to deal with landing lag. If you didn't hit Olly with the nair.. go into standard jab combo to get damage on. You may be able to get the ftilt or dtilt off after the jabs so look for it. If Olly goes to far.. pursuit on the ground cuz charizards dash is fast.. try to grab and keep control of what is going on. Rock smash and Flame thrower are also approach options.. but are slower and punishable if missed. Olly can be killed high so if you can get a utilt.. or usmash at high damage.. you should have the kill. If you can also hit the fly while Olly is falling.. the knockback is great and can get you the kill at around 70%. Another easy way to kill Olly is by gimping from either an edge hog or fair gimps off stage. Dtilt and Ftilt are great killers as well if Olly is at high damage.
Overall... Charizard can put on the damage and can live for a long time.. but can be juggled easily as well. Olly has the speed and looks to have the advantage.. but Charizard's power evens everything up. No clear advantage.
Charizard: =
Neutral
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To throw a generalized analysis of Olly... He is basically a short Marth that has range. He can be easily gimped if you manage to get him out off stage.. but he has the option of really taking control of the match by camping or going on the offensive.
The Olly i play is called Shrink. He has a video thread up on the Olimar forums and took his olly a good distance at a very competitive tourney that we went to in Omaha nebraska. Darkrain also showed up.. so there were no slackers there. For those who don't know who Darkrain is.. he was a Captain Falcon pro in melee and now he play DK in brawl. He won the tournament.
Shrink and i play competitively everyday so i feel i have a very good grasp on how olly plays.. and he had fun beating up my PT tonight.
his video thread is:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163134
The vids are old and we hope to get more up soon. My PT vids that are up there are when i was having a very bad day and couldn't think of how to play there not bad but still.. don't use them to judge my skill. I have gotten better.. but it is extremely hard to play his olly.
-FireWulf
Just keep them away and separate them with Bullet Seed an up smash. Up smash is good because if Popo air dodge it, Nana will take a while to do this and will be caught by the attack and will fly away, leading them to doom
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