please desticky and replace with new thread. link to new thread in OP if needed

[papermarkis]

Ivysaur beats DK? From my experience, Ivysaur vs DK isn't even fair.

 

[Frown]

Ivysaur beats DK? From my experience, Ivysaur vs DK isn't even fair.

Yeah, DK's fair can be deadly.

That might have been my worst SSB pun.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Ivysaur beats DK? From my experience, Ivysaur vs DK isn't even fair.

Ivysaur definately wins those matches. Big target for Bullet Seed, Bair punctures his also large range, especially hsi JC Spinning Kong. Razor Leaf forces him to aproach you, too.

 

[chubas]

And both suffer the same for a QUICK KO move. Except maybe for his Bair, but if you manage to keep it far away from you (bair spam), Ivy is OK

 

[Fearmy]

For lucario I tend to stick with Ivy & Charizard. Ivy can keep up with lucario's range game and can easily cancel out aura spheres. Ivy's netrual a can easily hit him out of any of his laggy smashs granted that u can c them coming ahead of time. I good Ivysaur and tear up lucario on the ground but it's when in the air where lucario can beat ivy. If I'm forced to clash with him in the air I just try to space myself with my fairs or bairs; that should keep him busy til u can reposition yourself. But watch out for that **** dair! It has high priorety (sp?), it hurts & at higher % has great knockback & KO potential. But if they're stupid and just spam on there way down they're just screaming to be punished.

In my personal opinion Charizard can go toe to toe with Lucario. With lucario's light weight Zard gonna send the poor guy flying a some low % and has many ways to punish roll heavy Lucarios (Like the one I fight) but at the same time Zard is also a big target to combo to kingdom come.

I'm not too fond of the cute turtle in this match up because of his lack of range & I rely alot on aerial attacks & Lucario usually has a field day punishing me for that with his fair, dair, aura shot or a well spaced f smash. But if I can get him off the stage I can either gimp him with fair & even if i can't I'm at least rackin up some damage but sometimes thats not a good thing with Lucario.

All 3 pokemon can abuse there strengths in this match up whether it's by out ranging, over powering or gimping. This really shouldn't be a bad match up for us. I can really get some more info on this match since I have 2 friends in my crew that main Lucario.

But remember nothing is never for certain always mix it up & turn the mindgame level up to max! And that my friend is something the PT has over everybody in the roster.. MINDGAMES!!!

Charizard gets Chain Grabbed,

lucarcio Can spam baby aura spheres to annoy you, combo you and actually eaisly shield grab you

 

[Retro Gaming]

Just approach with short-hop Flametrhower, that nullifies uncharged Aura spheres. That'll either hit him or force him to retreat further, at which point you can probably interecept him with a grab, or something along those lines.

 

[FlyingMudPuppy]

Has anybody thought about making a spy thread, where you would go to all the other char guides and matchup threads and see what they say about PT? That way you could see what mainers of other chars think... and maybe take advantage?

But nice thread it seems really useful

 

[DanGR]

I have a quick question. How is Bowser a bad match up for Ivysaur. I've never fought a decent Bowser but on paper it seems that Ivy can tear Bowsy a new hole to spit fire out of.

he's fire type. grass<fire. Duh!!

Edit:

Has anybody thought about making a spy thread, where you would go to all the other char guides and matchup threads and see what they say about PT? That way you could see what mainers of other chars think... and maybe take advantage?

But nice thread it seems really useful

What do you think I'm doing here? lol

 

[veritron]

Ivysaur definately wins those matches. Big target for Bullet Seed, Bair punctures his also large range, especially hsi JC Spinning Kong. Razor Leaf forces him to aproach you, too.

All dk is going to do is f-tilt and u-tilt you to death. Yeah you can hit him with razor leaf - but he's the second heaviest character in the game he can kill you at 70-90ish you'll be killing him at much higher percents. Your only good kill moves are aerial moves - he can just go in and kick *** if he stays on the ground.

 

[manhunter098]

Just approach with short-hop Flametrhower, that nullifies uncharged Aura spheres. That'll either hit him or force him to retreat further, at which point you can probably interecept him with a grab, or something along those lines.

If you do that he can easily just double team you. Its really a bad idea to approach any character that has a counter with a laggy technique like that. That also rules out approaching with Rock Smash too.

 

[Konpaku]

Heh, ive never seen this chart its pretty neat though.
I do find it kind of funny how Ivysaur seems to do well against almost everyone.

 

[Retro Gaming]

This is a good idea, but I think it has been in this phase for far too long. I think it is time that the PT boards develop this thread further. We need to add a larger deviation of not/super-effective. In keeping with the traditional Pokemon format, this could very easily be incorporated by x4 weaknesses/resistances. In addition, I think it is best to have a set period of time where the boards discuss a specific character. We had some thread like that previously, yet, I think it fits best here, as the findings can then be used for the actual chart.

It would be a lot of work, but I think it would over-all facilitate more metagame discussion and provide much more knowledge for the forum.

 

[Neb]

Nice thread, I like the concept.
^^b.

 

[Steeler]

alright, well do we have any suggestions/preferences as to what character we focus on first?

 

[Adriel]

Someone else suggested this before me, but making a chart that shows which pokemon has the most advantage, the most disadvantage, and who is the most neutral against a character would be helpful. Instead of having 2 greens or 2 reds for a certain match-up, every pokemon would have a different color that shows who should be used the most, and who should be used the least. For example, against Pikachu I believe that Squirtle is at red, Ivysaur is at grey (for neutral), and Charizard is at green.

This would only be a secondary chart and it would not take that long to make based on the current chart. A different chart could help peoples figure out when to switch out pokemanz and who to pick as a starter.

 

[megabenman]

Couldn't Charizard technically be good against Ness? He's got that infinite chain grab thing like Marth on him, right?

 

[Retro Gaming]

alright, well do we have any suggestions/preferences as to what character we focus on first?

If only because we should all know the characters best, I think we should start with the PT set. =P

Are we going to be implementing that x4 resistances/weaknesses bit or no?

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Do ROB first. I play a good PT and his Charizard pushes me to my limit.

 

[Retro Gaming]

I'm down with either, I have access to an ROB, as well.

 

[Superhacker75mil]

Adriel ---- That's too similar to the current chart. It's not always the case where' only one Pokémon is the best...sometimes two of them work out well. Not always, but sometimes.

In any case, I'm familiar with match-ups against competent Wolfs, Marths, Yoshis, and Dededes. I've had some experience against Snakes and Meta-Knights but they usually own me WAY quickly when they're decent. So yeah, if there's a "Match-Up of the Week" sorta' thread (which could be updated each week with the topic title saying this character or that character), I'd definitely help out in those areas as well as discussing what I do know of other characters.

Although I'm not so sure we should go QUITE as in-depth as the whole 4x thing from the Pokémon games. That's like how metal genres do way too much subdividing. Effective, neutral, and uneffective is good enough, even if sometimes a Poké is just mildly effective/uneffective, or extremely effective/uneffective. With the degree modifiers, you can just mention them in the match-up descriptions, really.

 

[talkingbeatles]

I've noticed that Squirtle is said to have a disadvantage against Falcon. This mirrors what the Character Match Up thread says. As a Falcon main, I think Squirtle has an advantage.

He seems to out prioritize Falcon in the air on nearly all fronts, and because of his size, he is extremely hard to hit.

Any PT main-ers out there that can throw in their two cents?

 

[Retro Gaming]

I don't find Falcon particularly dificult to play against with Squirtle, but I haven't played many, and none have been amazing. I'll try to look for one.

 

[Blackbelt]

I played against a Good Falcon recently.


Ivysaur and Charizard are better against him.


I don't know about the advantage/disadvantage thing, but he's definitely my last pick for going against Falcon.

 

[The Milk Monster]

This is such a great idea, it's a great thing to look at instead of reading all about PT's matchup's in text!

 

[talkingbeatles]

This is such a great idea, it's a great thing to look at instead of reading all about PT's matchup's in text!

I did look at the Falcon v Squirtle match up. It didn't go in to too much detail. There was talk about the only threat Falcon posed in an aerial fight was his knee, but Squirtle is so hard to hit because he's so small. Uair is much more threatening against the turtle in my opinion.
I'm just trying to get other peoples thoughts.

 

[The Milk Monster]

To talkingbeatles:

Yeah I would have to agree with you on that matchup.
I haven't experienced many Falcon's personally, but it does seem to make sense, since he is as small as he is, the knee would be harder to pull off, the uair has more range, and is more likely to hit Squirtle then the Knee.

 

[Steeler]

a lot of the 'reasoning' behind most of these match-ups is very thin and not very in-depth at all. i'm hoping that this match-up a week thing will fix that. thread coming soon...

 

[The Milk Monster]

I wouldn't mind doing a little research and writing a little bit of a match up thing for PT.
I got time on my hands.

 

[Lightningcard18]

Ironic how Squirtle beats Charizard, Charizard beats Ivysaur, and Ivysaur beats Squirtle, similar to that elemental ring in the actual Pokemon games.

I'm definitely going to look at this. Thanks.

 

[Steeler]

updated the first post with revised pokemon trainer and x2/x4 weak differences. second post now has character in focus archive.

 

[Retro Gaming]

I love it. =3

But maybe the contribution section should get an update too.

 

[Charizard92]

You just made it better with the dex analysis. Congrats!

 

[Amide]

Can we have more than one thread at a time for in depth character discussions? I think it would go much quicker that way.

Edit: In character ranking thread, Falcon is a lot above PT. That caught me by surprise.

 

[infernovia]

Can you update the G&W and Marth matchups?

 

[theEffinBear]

Can we have more than one thread at a time for in depth character discussions? I think it would go much quicker that way.

I agree that having multiple character discussions at once would be good. I have regrettably little experience with using PT competitively*, but I have found the match-up threads interesting, helpful, and relatively enjoyable so far. Basically: MOAR PLZ.
*though this may change in the near-ish future.

/RtEB

 

[Hydde]

Congrats to steeler for the updates,...

now with the poke dex entry we will get alot ofmore in depth analysis in one character...

Hopefully , one day, this chart will be very realiable..

is just looking better everyday.

 

[Amide]

It's sad that PT has a disadvantage against Marth in three circumstances, but I'm glad everyone's being a realist about it.

 

[Mmac]

You got Yoshi's info completely backwards! Squirtle is actually weak against Yoshi (Evenly Match airs, Pivot Grab stops Withdraw in his tracks, can Chaingrab, and Release Grab + Usmash Combo him for a Easy Kill), While Charizard is actually strong against him.

Although it's been recently discovered that Yoshi can actually Chaingrab him also, so it might be a Neutral Match-up now

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Wait....... i think ivysaur does a lot worse that charizard against marth..... they shall not be on the same level, i still think that Charizard=Marth........ anyone with me??
I know i sound like too optimistic, maybe its just taht the way i play zard beats the way that everyone i know plays marth

 

[Steeler]

well

charizard is at less of a disadvantage than ivysaur, but it's still a disadvantage, however slight.