• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Playing vs top Diddies: PROS HELP!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
Alright, so I'm about 2-7 with Felix in our last 9 sets I would guess. (Overall I am 7-13 vs him now)

I lost to him again yesterday in winners finals and grand finals, 1-3 and 2-3.

I need help vs Diddy!

I know a lot of you will say "blah hes not THAT good" I honestly think he is near ADHD level. At MLG Orlando he only lost to two snakes and eliminated Seibrik. He will be at Raleigh. When i watch recent videos, felix doesnt fall for the same traps he does and avoids it. But thats beyond the point. It seems like no video is able to help, because I've sat down and watched, but it's just "Okay, well Felix doesn't fall for that because he does X action to counter that"

I guess even top diddies can post too, but how do you get past all of diddies dumb stuff? Diddies that fair a lot (They use it like snakes bair, it pisses me off.)

Diddies recover high now, so you cant fair from below, uair from below randomely trades with monkey kick, if you nado too soon, they can either wait it out, or if you touched him with it, can be broken by the monkey kick. If you fair, kick/fair can beat it. I've tried empty jumps to bait, but it's still not helping. I can't even gimp diddy anymore :(. Instant throwing @ Diddy is useless (vs felix atleast) so I end up just instant throwing up or down to avoid getting hit.

Even edge-guarding diddy is harder, I'm pretty much resorted to tornado-ing him (and hoping the kick doesnt break the startup of my nado) if you wait too long off the stage with nair, he can monkey flip into a potentially dangerous situation (footstool gimp afterwards if you dont know the proper way to get out of it, but he still makes it back even if you get out) But if you dont do anything at all, its a huge waste. Charged fsmash doesn't trade with kick if they're high enough

I feel like I have to start playing it like the Falco matchup again. Super gay dair camping/reading when he'll fair and try to sneak the dair in as he fades away and hope to lead to a gimp. When he has two bananas too and starts peanut camping, matchup gets way hard lol. I end up just camping until he throws a banana at me. and even then in the 1 banana diddy vs 1 banana mk, diddy has better banana control/moves (except length of glide toss, which really isn't important, because diddy can beat MK's glide toss grab. It doesn't work if they're ready). It's also really hindering that MK can't grab a banana on the ground without being directly on it, or else you go HWUYUYUYU and do the crappy Jab. you end up having to do the instant throw which can be read too.

obviously I know to SDI all of diddy's moves into the ground (or if youre scared or not practiced, up I suppose. can be followed up though.)

Also Diddy does the air dodge + banana drop in one action, which stops you from following up once you finally get that duuuude in the air.

help :)


Edit -- We practice together and have now played 20 sets vs each other, so it could be each other knowing the others styles and tendencies perfectly. But tier list suggests Metaknight should have the advantage considering that, sooo, help still :]. He's my friend but, I don't like being the after-thought of the already not-very-thought-about state known as Washington, I want to be winning again. It's to the point where I accept that I might be getting 2nd, and no one has done that to me before.
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
you should put up vids that you want to discuss of you vs him

im kinda to tired right now to do a write up though lol
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
11,635
Location
Maryland
If you have a problem with an infraction report it to Forum Dispute.

Please stay on topic and keep it civil; I'd hate for one of Jem's threads to get derailed.

Jem. These matches are very good for reference. I think Anti plays this match-up very well. The same applies to Atomsk.

Anti

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjgaiiOh08M&feature=search
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NO72qCADOs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNPCQBR0rP0&feature=related

Atomsk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVpmy3czrh4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6FW_QrwAHE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2NWH82em64&feature=related

From my personal experience you have to manage his bananas. I know we here it all the time, but it is essential that MK be able to handle the bananas just as well as Diddy. That means f-air catching glide toss bananas and banana control when MK has both bananas.

D-tilt is amazing against Diddy. You don't want to spam it, but d-tilt into grab/tornado follow ups are great shield pressure.

Walk a lot. Dashing is very bad in this match. And don't stay grounded too long in your shield especially when Diddy has a banana.

The key to beating Diddy is staying resilient, taking control of his bananas, abusing him when he is without a banana, and correctly edgeguarding him.
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
Having control of diddy's bananas isnt the problem. It's that felix knows ALL the tricks. He even taught ADHD tricks at MLG Orlando, I seriously think you guys arent thinking of him at ADHD level which you should be. You can't juggle him because he keeps a banana in his hand, so he does the air dodge + banana drop in one action. the tricks he can teach you just at a smashfest are ridiculous, i dont know how he thinks of half the tricks he comes up with.

dtilt is decent, but doing dtilt past 1 time is risky. diddy's grab range gets ridiculous vs dtilt, so if you do it two times, he has the grab which means 2 bananas out again.

And again to banana control, I would like to think I have some of the better banana control in the community (the amount of times ive played vs felix, youre forced to learn it if you stand a chance) the problem is, you can't hit this guy with bananas.. he just instant throws it back if he senses youre throwing it at him. He doesnt even guess, because I try to guess and he goes "Don't guess, just react" he reacts that fast all the time. The only trick I have on him, is when he's offstage recovering and i have a banana, to throw the banana up or back on stage because he was getting ready to instant throw, so i get another punish (throwing a banana at him is useless again, he just instant throws it immediately)

trust me, ive watched A LOT of Anti and Atomsk vs ADHD. It's just that what they do doesn't work on Felix. It's frustrating for me :/

(This is not to discredit any of the afore mentioned players, for they are all amazing and better than me by a large margin. But I just STUDY these videos, and run through felix vs me in my head outside the game and inside the game, and it doesn't work vs him)
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
dont throw bananas at him, dash away and jc uthrow up depending on where you want the bananas and keep yourself inbetween the banana and him.

also, if he airdodges/drops banana you can still hit him >_>. you just have to time your move to catch the banana
 

Staco

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
2,173
Location
Germany
When he recovers high with up B, U can up B his up B and get him off.
It´s pretty much a guessing game at the egde.
Try to stay in a good position between Diddy and the edge and try to catch the egde before him, if he wants to go there.
If he uses side B to recover and U are in range use it and hit him off again.

BTW, U can also do that instant throw banana back to him thingy. xD


I would really like if U post a vid of him playing U, so I can maybe give U advice for some situations.
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
Kay so, I feel a little better since Felix got 3rd at MLG and I posted this right before. But it's still hard as heck.

Also, you can get punished for instant throwing his instant throw unless you throw it down :p. and if you miss you get punished.
 

Grizzer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
378
Location
The Netherlands
im still waiting for a vid of 2 chars falling down instant throwing **** back at eachother over and over again :)

also, just bait banana throws, orion was baiting me so much, i threw them at him and there i was, nanerless and helpless against a ball with a sword :(
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
The trick is to separate the Nana's between Diddy and you. So in other words, grab his banana's, and then toss them behind you, or the furthest spot away from diddy. The nana's take time to vanish, and that leaves you with plenty of time to attack diddy.
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
Location
Time Chamber, Texas
Bait him to throw them, whether on ground or in air. Pay attention to his patterns with them and when he throws them. If you learn when he's going to throw them you can bait him to do so and react accordingly.
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
Thanks Dojo :). I just feel like it's way too easy to get bananas out, and way too easy for diddy to protect himself from opposing players having them on neutrals. :/
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
Location
Time Chamber, Texas
You gotta think like they do sort of.

Also pay attention to when he plucks them. When G doesn't have any and wants them out, he usually goes for a grab or fair or something to knock/throw me away to pluck them. Be aware of that. Keep yourself in a good distance to punish him if he plucks one but be careful of one of those options he has or others. It's alot harder at higher percent because he knocks you away with anything but that's a little something to pay attention to as well.
 

Yunior597

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
246
Location
Dominican Republic
Man this matchup is a piece of cake... if you know the matchup... try to catch the **** bananas... and throw them up, never at them... and punish them if they try to grab... Diddy kong can't live without banana... if they there is a banana on floor leave it there and eventually they will go pick it up punish them quickly before they get it dash attack or tornado they always use dash attack to pick it up...

Use tornado like crazy when they dont have banana in hand... other wise dont do it... try to power shield every banana and no problem.

That's all i can say... good luck
 

Rockan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
97
You dont have to do the infinant dimensional cape just use it to land when your being juggled.
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
Eh maybe I'm getting better, idk lol. I'm 3-0 vs felix since he got 3rd at MLG Raleigh. (1 was a forfeit though)

still hard as heck though to beat a good diddy :l. in retrospect tornado seems like the most important part of the matchup. can either hurt you or benefit you SO greatly.
 

FelixTrix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
410
Location
WA
Eh maybe I'm getting better, idk lol. I'm 3-0 vs felix since he got 3rd at MLG Raleigh. (1 was a forfeit though)

still hard as heck though to beat a good diddy :l. in retrospect tornado seems like the most important part of the matchup. can either hurt you or benefit you SO greatly.
/brag

enlighten me on the other time you beat me. pretty sure it was just GC Finals where I forfeited.

don't act like you aren't good/getting better. It would be pathetic if you played me every GC and WERE losing to me every time. Especially since you get the more consistent character.
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
/brag

enlighten me on the other time you beat me. pretty sure it was just GC Finals where I forfeited.

don't act like you aren't good/getting better. It would be pathetic if you played me every GC and WERE losing to me every time. Especially since you get the more consistent character.
Maybe you missed the other posts where I really felt like I wasn't grasping how to beat a good diddy. I've given you a lot of praise, you really can't have me happy at all can you, lol. I mentioned I'm now doing better and that I feel like tornado is the most important part of the matchup

the forfeit, and won twice saturday = 3-0. i mentioned the forfeit in the post you quoted.

it would be pathetic if you lost two sets to me while I've only been playing Halo:Reach. Oh wait..

clutch name search, post again in 2 weeks. Keep pretending I'm the bad guy.
 

FelixTrix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
410
Location
WA
Maybe you missed the other posts where I really felt like I wasn't grasping how to beat a good diddy. I've given you a lot of praise, you really can't have me happy at all can you, lol. I mentioned I'm now doing better and that I feel like tornado is the most important part of the matchup

the forfeit, and won twice saturday = 3-0. i mentioned the forfeit in the post you quoted.

it would be pathetic if you lost two sets to me while I've only been playing Halo:Reach. Oh wait..

clutch name search, post again in 2 weeks. Keep pretending I'm the bad guy.
I don't ask for this. I don't want people to brag for me or hype me up. I actually don't care.

I like it when you're happy. It's just annoying when you pretend you aren't good and you're like "eh maybe i'm good I guess *NAMEDROP* i beat FELIX *NAMEDROP* 3-0. i'm kinda bad at the matchup... maybe i know what to do...

before you were too cocky, and now you're too modest and polite to the point that it's annoying.

for the record: school 6/7 days of the week > free time to do w/e all day long.
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
I really felt I was struggling with Diddy. You can ask anyone here. Look at a lot of the MK vs diddy threads. You'll find me posting in them to get help. Now I think I'm getting better. I don't see any wrong in that.

namesearchnamesearchnamesearchfelixnamesearch
 

Player-4

See you in 25 years
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
5,582
Location
Campgrounds, TX
I take it Jem got all his info he needed, and now this is turning into more of a social, so Imma close it lol.

Jem, if you actually do still need this thread, just PM me
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom