Platform Fighter Exploration Thread: Round 117: General RAAM

[Perkilator]

Noms:
Scizor x5

 

[amageish]

So, I have a pitch... I nominated Luna largely because I wanted to discuss a music-based character, but I get that 99% of grown-up people don't watch modern Nicktoons... So it probably was a bad choice of nomination in retrospect!

So, if people would be interested in discussing a different music-based character for a different non-Smash fighter that has been leaked since I nominated Luna, then I'd be happy to just quietly swap out the day for someone a bit more mainstream...

Spoiler: My Proposal

Alternatively, I'll do a write-up for Luna later this afternoon and we can move on shortly after that...

 

[fogbadge]

So, I have a pitch... I nominated Luna largely because I wanted to discuss a music-based character, but I get that 99% of grown-up people don't watch modern Nicktoons... So it probably was a bad choice of nomination in retrospect!

So, if people would be interested in discussing a different music-based character for a different non-Smash fighter that has been leaked since I nominated Luna, then I'd be happy to just quietly swap out the day for someone a bit more mainstream...

Spoiler: My Proposal

Alternatively, I'll do a write-up for Luna later this afternoon and we can move on shortly after that...

I’m onboard with that

 

[amageish]

Okay! I got two people responding positively, so I'm going ahead with the changed day. Here's some music to set the new mood...

 

[fogbadge]

excellent. though i dispute the idea that people on this forum are grown up

ah marceline. is it just you and me in the wreckage of the world..... better stop before i make myself sad.

she would be an interesting character to play as in any game, and she has been in a few already including lego dimensions. with her flight, shapeshifting and axe guitar the potential is vast. she also has hypnosis and regeneration but im not sure how youd work those in to a fighting game. now as for amageish's idea for a musical fighter well it would make sense for her, her love with music is well known and im not sure theres that many songs in the show shes not invloved in. if they can combine the music and the shapeshifting that would be amazing.

 

[amageish]

excellent. though i dispute the idea that people on this forum are grown up

ah marceline. is it just you and me in the wreckage of the world..... better stop before i make myself sad.

she would be an interesting character to play as in any game, and she has been in a few already including lego dimensions. with her flight, shapeshifting and axe guitar the potential is vast. she also has hypnosis and regeneration but im not sure how youd work those in to a fighting game. now as for amageish's idea for a musical fighter well it would make sense for her, her love with music is well known and im not sure theres that many songs in the show shes not invloved in. if they can combine the music and the shapeshifting that would be amazing.

It's kind of hard to know what they'd do without knowing the mechanics of the game we're talking about, but I'm imagining her vampiric/shapeshifting powers would occupy her neutrals and strongs, with her special attacks being musical/rhythmic in nature (using her axe bass). They're both key parts of her character, so it'd be weird to do one without the other IMO.

 

[fogbadge]

anyone else got a friend who mareline kinda reminded them of? marshal lee even reminded me of her brother

 

[amageish]

Multiversus is actually revealed now, which should make this discussion a little bit easier.

So I guess this game is focusing on co-op team fights, so... Put Princess Bubblegum in to join Marceline, as I guess?

 

[fogbadge]

Multiversus is actually revealed now, which should make this discussion a little bit easier.

So I guess this game is focusing on co-op team fights, so... Put Princess Bubblegum in to join Marceline, as I guess?

something about it just doesnt seem as exciting

 

[fogbadge]

man the number of smash clones we're getting a disney one, one day. mind you they fill it up with star wars characters and we'll say "and we thought there was too many fire emblem characters"

 

[amageish]

man the number of smash clones we're getting a disney one, one day. mind you they fill it up with star wars characters and we'll say "and we thought there was too many fire emblem characters"

Disney doing a Smash fighter seems kind of inevitable at this point... I kind of hope they limit the Marvel and Star Wars representation though, as Disney owns... a lot of things.

Also, I'm saying last call for Marceline thoughts; I'll move discussion onto Shy Guy tomorrow.

 

[fogbadge]

Disney doing a Smash fighter seems kind of inevitable at this point... I kind of hope they limit the Marvel and Star Wars representation though, as Disney owns... a lot of things.

Also, I'm saying last call for Marceline thoughts; I'll move discussion onto Shy Guy tomorrow.

id hope so too. most of disney's best stuff is in their cartoons

oh i love shy guys

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My week is super busy. Any chance we can move Shy Guy to Saturday?

 

[amageish]

My week is super busy. Any chance we can move Shy Guy to Saturday?

Sure! Let's skip to Black Mage for now and leave discussion of them open from now until Saturday.

Spoiler: The Noms List

50-75 noms
Scizor - x85
God Eater Rep - x75
Shovel Knight - x75
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x65
Opa-Opa - x55

26-50 noms
Bubsy - x50
Vectorman - x45
Mash Kyrielight - x45
2B - x40
Commander Shepard - x40
Chell - x38
Jonesy - x37
Odie (NASB) - x35
Trauma Center Content - x32
Wilfre - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Jason Frudnick - x30
Rangi (NASB) - x30
Sly Cooper - x28

11-25 noms
Chun-Li - x25
Meowth - x25
SMT Content - x25
Clockman (NASB) - x20
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Daitoryo - x20
King Harkinian - x20
Darkest Dungeon Content - x16
Ezio - x15
Gunvolt - x15

5-10 noms
Pauline - x10
Max (Shining Force) - x10
Lobotomy Corporation/Library of Ruina Content - x7
Jack (Final Fantasy Origin) - x5
Carl Johnson - x5
Frogger - x5
9-volt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Ahri - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3

Spoiler: Usable Noms

fogbadge - x20
amageish - x10

And here's some FF music to start us off...

Spoiler: Black Mage Music Sampler

 

[GolisoPower]

Black Mage is a really good candidate because they've been in the series since the 1st game. If Square doesn't want to put more characters from 7 in this game, than it's down to either Y'shtola, Terra Branford or Black Mage.

I imagine Black Mage being a powerful zoner who uses super-damaging magic such as Firaga, Doom, and perhaps even use Flare as a Final Smash, too. As for the stage, I'd have to pick Cornelia, since that's the first town you ever encounter in the game.

All noms to Mash Kyrielight.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Black Mage also has a lot of simple alt choices. Black, White, Blue, Red, and then you could do the Wizard variants. Though I don't remember if there was a proper Blue Mage that looks similar?

There's a lot of weapons, and using some animations from FF1 would be great. Don't they sometimes use a beam attack as one of the actual spells? I only remember 8-Bit Theatre's take on it(which was basically a giant death laser inspired by DBZ style).

 

[Gengar84]

I’m a big fan of the Final Fantasy franchise and I think the Black Mage is a great choice if we’re going for a generic class character. Personally, I prefer a singular character over a class but I think a black mage has a lot of potential. What does everyone think of the idea of having Vivi from Final Fantasy IX represent the class? I feel like Vivi is the best of both worlds since he keeps the classic Black Mage design while also being his own beloved character.

 

[Paraster]

I’m a big fan of the Final Fantasy franchise and I think the Black Mage is a great choice if we’re going for a generic class character. Personally, I prefer a singular character over a class but I think a black mage has a lot of potential. What does everyone think of the idea of having Vivi from Final Fantasy IX represent the class? I feel like Vivi is the best of both worlds since he keeps the classic Black Mage design while also being his own beloved character.

I'd be interested in Vivi. IX is the one FF (so far) I've been really interested in, and Vivi seems really charming from my experience.

...that said, if given the choice, I'd pick Zidane over him lol

 

[Gengar84]

I'd be interested in Vivi. IX is the one FF (so far) I've been really interested in, and Vivi seems really charming from my experience.

...that said, if given the choice, I'd pick Zidane over him lol

Final Fantasy IX is probably my favorite game of all time and I’d love to see any of its characters in Smash. The great thing about IX is because it was a tribute to older FF games at the time, many of its characters are perfect representations of their class. Vivi is the most obvious but Garnet wore the classic White Mage outfit when fleeing the castle with Zidane. Freya is also the perfect Red Mage rep with her red coat and hat. I believe Eiko’s design was based on the summoner class from older games as well.

 

[Yiptap]

Black Mage is pretty iconic. Definitely my choice for a third Final Fantasy character. I also came up with an AT idea...
Cactuar

One of the most iconic Final Fantasy enemies, Cactuar would jump up in the air and remain stationary. Then he would use 1000 Needles and send needles flying from all around him! Cactuar is still defeatable if you even manage to get close, but fortunately, he has low HP.

Noms: Jack Frost SMT x5
Also, I really, REALLY appreciate the music samples.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Yes finally the day's here! Black Mage as a character designs is one of the most enduring in all of gaming. Those yellow eyes in the black void are adorably entrenched within RPG history forever. Normally I would be for a named character over a generic RPG class, but Black Mage stands out among all others like it because its design has generally remained consistent since the NES days. The Black Mage IS a character in itself now.

The halcyon NES days of Final Fantasy also deserve their fair share of representation in Smash. Cloud and Sephiroth are iconic, and FFVII is important, but they're already here and now the priority is the true classics. Black Mage could and should come with a pantheon of the most famous parts of the 8-bit and 16-bit Final Fantasy games. How the Prelude not in Smash yet? The stage doesn't even necessarily need to be from a game with the traditional Black Mage design in it. FFVI has a lot of great locations to choose from, especially the final stage or something based on the opera.

Honestly I don't know what to suggest for a moveset that isn't already in Super Smash Flash 2. Black Mage's moveset in that game is one of my favs in any fighting game, and it just goes to show you how much potential they have. They're very Mr. Game & Watche-esque in how they can pull out completely random and unrelated spells for every move while it all looks natural. Without a weapon, they'd stand out from their most obvious counterpart: Robin. I don't think they need a gimmick like mana, either. Each spell can be weak on its own but with very powerful applications if they're used right for all manner of tricks like setting up traps or building a defensive wall.

Now go read 8-Bit Theater.

Oh and my noms go to Commander Shepard again.

 

[amageish]

Woo-hoo! It's great to see how much discussion is flowing for Black Mage, in spite of SmashBoards as a whole having quieted down...

Black Mage also has a lot of simple alt choices. Black, White, Blue, Red, and then you could do the Wizard variants. Though I don't remember if there was a proper Blue Mage that looks similar?

Blue mage definitely isn't as consistent or iconic as the other mages, but if you go for a blue musketeer-esque outfit with a blue mask, then I think you've hit the average well enough that it'd fit well. Idk what you do for gender though, as Black Mage is typically depicted as male in crossovers and White Mage is typically depicted as female in crossovers, but Blue and Red can... really be whatever they want to be.

Without a weapon, they'd stand out from their most obvious counterpart: Robin. I don't think they need a gimmick like mana, either.

What could you ever mean? What could Robin ever have in common with a FF mage? They're -

Oh. Yeah. Uh. Definitely one of the weirdest alts in the game, this one, as they generally shy away from making references to other franchises like this...

But, yes, a more trick character moveset is a very good way of going about it and Smash Flash is generally a fantastically put-together platform fighter.

 

[GolisoPower]

Now this gets me thinking: how do we differentiate Black Mage's Flare from Sephiroth's? Do we make it into a Final Smash since Flare's canonically the most powerful black magic spell in FF1 (I mean, it's literally called Nuke initially)? Or so we make it a max-level Neutral Special charge attack? I'm legitimately curious on how we can pull it off.

 

[fogbadge]

ah the black mage one of the most well established jobs in all FF. capable of using all manner of spells and sports stuff

noms to odie

 

[Gengar84]

The biggest challenge for me with a Black Mage/Vivi moveset is trying to make them feel distinct from Lucas. Lucas pretty much has Vivi’s proportions and most of his specials represent the three main types of magic in Final Fantasy.

 

[fogbadge]

The biggest challenge for me with a Black Mage/Vivi moveset is trying to make them feel distinct from Lucas. Lucas pretty much has Vivi’s proportions and most of his specials represent the three main types of magic in Final Fantasy.

Yeah but that’s only 3 moves out of an entire move set.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah but that’s only 3 moves out of an entire move set.

That’s true. For me, at least, a character’s specials are usually more memorable than the rest of their moveset but that doesn’t always have to be the case. On that subject, what would you guys think would be fitting for the Black Mages other moves? The specials are easy for mages but other moves like throws and A moves can be a little more tricky.

I don’t know if I lost all my nomination points due to inactivity but if I still have any, I’ll put all of my points towards Predator. I think it has a ton of potential for a Smash style moveset.

 

[fogbadge]

That’s true. For me, at least, a character’s specials are usually more memorable than the rest of their moveset but that doesn’t always have to be the case. On that subject, what would you guys think would be fitting for the Black Mages other moves? The specials are easy for mages but other moves like throws and A moves can be a little more tricky.

I don’t know if I lost all my nomination points due to inactivity but if I still have any, I’ll put all of my points towards Predator. I think it has a ton of potential for a Smash style moveset.

well i imagine how broad the moveset would be. if the black mage was to be based purely on the first game, which seems probable, then it could be tricky but id be impressed if they managed to use those three spells for the whole moveset. if however they were to cover black magic from the whole series itd be dead easy

 

[amageish]

Sorry, I just realized I told Verde Coeden Scalesworth that we'd switch to Shy Guy on Saturday and it is now Sunday...

Are people up for discussing the masked man of mystery now, or should we move around the schedule a bit more?

 

[Yiptap]

Sorry, I just realized I told Verde Coeden Scalesworth that we'd switch to Shy Guy on Saturday and it is now Sunday...

Are people up for discussing the masked man of mystery now, or should we move around the schedule a bit more?

I’m fine with talking about Shy Guy now, but it’s up to White Frost whether we move the schedule of not.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I got time.

So, anyway, Shy Guy debuted in Super Mario Bros. 2 USA, and later on became mostly in stuff like Paper Mario, Super Mario RPG, Luigi's Mansion, and a bit in the other various sports/Kart spin-offs.

What makes Shy Guy unique is that due to the various appearances, it has tons of unique abilities. This includes its tons of Subspecies, like Fly Guy, Bandit, and even the commander from the first Paper Mario. So it can steal money, using tank shells, spit fire, fly around, use go-karts, tennis rackets, and so on. And that's not even counting spells you could incorporate from SMRPG, or things from Luigi's Mansion in general.

 

[GolisoPower]

I actually attempted to make a Shy Guy set a long time back:

Shy Guy seems like the next logical choice for a mook character in Smash not just because there's so many other kinds of Shy Guys much like Piranha Plant, because it could give us a new Yoshi rep, too!

 

[fogbadge]

I got time.

So, anyway, Shy Guy debuted in Super Mario Bros. 2 USA, and later on became mostly in stuff like Paper Mario, Super Mario RPG, Luigi's Mansion, and a bit in the other various sports/Kart spin-offs.

What makes Shy Guy unique is that due to the various appearances, it has tons of unique abilities. This includes its tons of Subspecies, like Fly Guy, Bandit, and even the commander from the first Paper Mario. So it can steal money, using tank shells, spit fire, fly around, use go-karts, tennis rackets, and so on. And that's not even counting spells you could incorporate from SMRPG, or things from Luigi's Mansion in general.

well doki doki panic but i suppose it is the same game with different assets. if youll excuse my pedantry

anyway i love shy guys. my first internet user name came from them. shy guys have had variations thatd make PP look like nothing. the moveset potential is vast and id hope be a lot of fun to work with.

anyways heres a question for you all: would you prefer him as a mario or a yoshi character?

 

[GolisoPower]

well doki doki panic but i suppose it is the same game with different assets. if youll excuse my pedantry

anyway i love shy guys. my first internet user name came from them. shy guys have had variations thatd make PP look like nothing. the moveset potential is vast and id hope be a lot of fun to work with.

anyways heres a question for you all: would you prefer him as a mario or a yoshi character?

I'd say make him a Yoshi rep. They've consistently appeared in that franchise as opposed to mainline Mario titles, and I feel like Yoshi needs a bit of expanding upon.

 

[amageish]

Okay! Let's-a-go with the Shy Guy discussion, but first let me give out the noms earned with Black Mage.

Spoiler: The Noms List

50-75 noms
Scizor - x85
God Eater Rep - x75
Shovel Knight - x75
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x65
Mash Kyrielight - x55
Odie (NASB) - x55
Opa-Opa - x55

26-50 noms
Bubsy - x50
Commander Shepard - x45
Vectorman - x45
2B - x40
Rangi (NASB) - x40
Chell - x38
Jonesy - x37
Trauma Center Content - x32
Wilfre - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Jason Frudnick - x30
Sly Cooper - x28

11-25 noms
Chun-Li - x25
Meowth - x25
SMT Content - x25
Clockman (NASB) - x20
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Daitoryo - x20
King Harkinian - x20
Darkest Dungeon Content - x16
Ezio - x15
Gunvolt - x15

5-10 noms
Pauline - x10
Max (Shining Force) - x10
Lobotomy Corporation/Library of Ruina Content - x7
Jack Frost - x5
Jack (Final Fantasy Origin) - x5
Carl Johnson - x5
Frogger - x5
9-volt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Ahri - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3

Spoiler: Usable Noms

GolisoPower - x20
Verde Coeden Scalesworth - x10
Gengar84 - x30
Paraster - x10
Yiptap - x10
Dan Quixote - x20
amageish - x15
fogbadge - x20

And here's your Shy Guy music selection!

Spoiler: Shy Guy Music Sampler

Y'know, usually with characters like Shy Guy my music selection has to be kind of a stretch, but Shy Guy has a surprising amount of directly Shy-Guy-related songs!

 

[GolisoPower]

Noms:
Mash Kyrielight x15
Isaac (Golden Sun) x5

 

[fogbadge]

noms go to odie. i would also like to complement you amageish on including general guy and shy guys finish last

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Shy Gal jokes aside, there's enough colors and designs you could easily make costumes. Including even a paper-like design. General Guy is another great design, same with Bandit(maybe just for the last two?). But easily Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Black, White otherwise?

Noms: Max(Shining Force)

 

[Yiptap]

Shy Guy is definitely one of my favorite fictional character designs ever. He's shy, but deadly.
Also, I think this is my idea for a Shy Guy AT...
Shy Guy Assist Trophy: General Guy

A fairly simple Assist Trophy, General Guy in his car(?) would appear from the edge of the stage and drive through, kind of like that one crab hazard in the Garden of Hope stage. General Guy would make his form of transportation jump when he gets to a pit or a roadblock (Like the blocks in Green Greens). Once General Guy makes it to the end of a stage, he disappears, but he also chucks a Shy Guy to the middle of the stage. They are fairly easy to defeat, but can be difficult if you're not prepared.

Shy Guy 1: Shy Guy

Shy Guy is very easy to defeat. He attacks by charging at a foe and then falling flat on his face, like Dedede's dash attack. Two Shy Guys are thrown by General Guy, however.

Shy Guy 2: Groove Guy

Although the dancing Groove Guys have very low health, you shouldn't try to attack them. If you get close to the Groove Guy, you get a random status effect. And Groove Guys won't hesitate to move too. The way to defeat them is by using projectiles (Sorry DK Mains).

Shy Guy 3: Medi Guy

Medi Guy doesn't attack. He just heals the summoner and disappears.

Shy Guy 4: Pyro Guy

Pyro Guys behave identically to the regular Shy Guys, but with the fire attribute. Touching them deals more damage and also gives burn damage over time. And yes, water attacks from Squirtle K.O. it instantly.

Shy Guy 5: Sky Guy

Sky Guys float high in the air and attack with their slingshot. It doesn't deal much damage, but it can be quite the nuisance if your fighter doesn't have good recovery.

Shy Guy 6: Spy Guy

When the land in the stage, they go invisible, moving around a bit. From far range, they attack with their slingshot, but in close range, they attack with their hammer, which deals more damage. Keep track of where the random attacks are coming from and strike! Or you can just attack blindly, it's up to you.

Shy Guy 7: Anti Guy

Anti Guys act like Shy Guys, but deal WAY more damage and have very high health.


Also, all the Shy Guys would use sprites, not 3D models.

Noms: Jack Frost x10

 

[amageish]

Shy Gal jokes aside, there's enough colors and designs you could easily make costumes. Including even a paper-like design. General Guy is another great design, same with Bandit(maybe just for the last two?). But easily Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Black, White otherwise?

Yeah, very true! I feel like we need Fly Guys and Stilt Guys to appear in the actual moveset in some way, as those two are both iconic variants that turn up basically everywhere (the Fly Guy even appears in Shy Guy's special moves in the more recent Mario sports titles, which seems like a bit of a downgrade given that they used to be playable in those games as their own characters).

Beyond that, I'd go Red Shy Guy, Light Blue Shy Guy, Yellow Shy Guy, White Shy Guy, Black Shy Guy, Wool Shy Guy (from Yoshi's Wooly World), Light Blue Bandit, and Red Bandit. I love Paper Mario, but I imagine that making a full paper alt would be a little bit more resource-intensive... Yiptap's General Guy AT is a great way of representing that side to the Shy Guy legacy though, if we focused more on Yoshi titles and Mario spin-offs in the moveset.

Mario Party also presents some amazing Shy Guy variants. We have Indiana Jones Shy Guy, New York New York Top Hat Shy Guy, Conductor Shy Guy, and more...