Pizza Mafia - Over! Who lived happily ever after in the land of Tito's refrigerator?

[Asdioh]

I don't think Gova is scum anymore.

Cool, me neither (for now)

Glyph is scum because of meta.

This is weak and you know it. You also seem to have missed or forgotten the ****storm that revolved around me using meta early game. Can you at least give a couple examples of why Glyph is scum?

 

[Xivii]

Well more than that really.

This discussion on whether or not the mafia targeted one of J/AM is really going to end us up in a mess of WIFOM and nothing more. If we choose to believe Gova/Joey's claim, then he is responsible for their deaths and that is literally the only thing we can take away from it.

What we can do, however, is look back on the stances J and AM took, evaluate them knowing their alignment, and work from there.

It was as if Glyoh was prepared to say this. I first poted the mafia not killing hing in #1066. After 6 posts Glyph calls out the "discussion" over whether or not mafia killed when really no discussion was really going on. Just like two comments. It's like he was just waiting for this to get his brownie townie points in. And then he continues with more brownie bs about looking over J and AM's posts which is like duh. It's fake. Glyph is scum.

 

[Asdioh]

Well more than that really.
It was as if Glyoh was prepared to say this. I first poted the mafia not killing hing in #1066. After 6 posts Glyph calls out the "discussion" over whether or not mafia killed when really no discussion was really going on. Just like two comments. It's like he was just waiting for this to get his brownie townie points in. And then he continues with more brownie bs about looking over J and AM's posts which is like duh. It's fake. Glyph is scum.

ok... ok I can see this. He was scum in my second game, and I might be able to see a resemblence, but I'm going to focus on this game.
Have you seen anything earlier on in this game that would also lead you to believe he's scum? (go do an iso of him, he has very few posts so it should be very easy)

 

[Xivii]

Nothing else.

Why are you being so scummy?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Zen your #1066 is

Gova so you're saying that mafia didn't kill?

Now tell me how that's not encouraging discussion of something that would lead nowhere? Here, let me lay out the possibilities as I can see it:

Scum and Vig both target J/AM
Scum and Vig each target one of J/AM
Scum targets Doc protected player while Vig targets J/AM
Scum did not submit a NK/was roleblocked

We have absolutely no way to know which of those happened. We cannot gain any information from it. You're reaching super duper hard.

 

[Xivii]

Ah man I might want to lynch Asdioh instead. Will think bout it later. Have work to do though.

 

[Asdioh]

Nothing else.

Why are you being so scummy?

I'm not. If you disagree, feel free to say how I'm being scummy, instead of asking stupid questions.

Zen your #1066 is


Now tell me how that's not encouraging discussion of something that would lead nowhere? Here, let me lay out the possibilities as I can see it:

Scum and Vig both target J/AM
Scum and Vig each target one of J/AM
Scum targets Doc protected player while Vig targets J/AM
Scum did not submit a NK/was roleblocked

We have absolutely no way to know which of those happened. We cannot gain any information from it. You're reaching super duper hard.

I agree. Now let's stop talking about it and I'll ask you: who is scum?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Right now I have no idea, since I honestly haven't read through a lot of the thread what with the whole planning to replace out deal.

 

[Xivii]

Unvote; vote: Asdioh

 

[Asdioh]

Why are you being so scummy?

Time to ask you the same question. The day has barely started and your vote has already been on three players. The only one you gave good reasoning for was Glyph, but then you changed it (even though you are totally sure he is scum) to me because _______.

 

[July]

Alright Gova, please read back a bit. Joey claimed vig (after looking fairly scummy and being put to L-1) and it was mostly agreed that he would flip a coin and shoot between certain players... I believe it was Glyph or Evil Soup, or Zen or me (aggressive mediation suggested this second pair)

Anyway, Joey saying "my kill went through" implies that he targeted someone that didn't die. I'm assuming that means he didn't receive a message saying something along the lines "your action failed" or whatever would tell him he was roleblocked or whatever.

It just seems fishy to me.

Gova, I named those players because they seemed the scummiest or most inactive.

Eh, I can't find the exact quote, but somewhere Aggressive Mediation said something like "if those inactives really are town then we were screwed anyway"

I really wish Joey were here to explain what happened to the plan. I really wanted to know about one of Evil Soup or Zen and I think scum is to be found in one of them. I reread on Asdioh at Night when I could and I feel better about him, especially considering his more recent play.

Asdioh, no offense, but you're dumb.

Could you explain why you say this? All I saw that provoked this was Asdioh voting you, is that the only reason is he is dumb?

I feel like we have to force stances out of you Zen >.>

I don't think Gova is scum anymore.

Glyph is scum because of meta.

Was the Gova scum read based on just toDay?

Really not sold on Glyph scum. The post you say is Glyph trying to earn townie points might be scummy in a different context, but Glyph was in the process of replacing out. If he can't provide input on yesterDay at least he is trying to get input in based off what has happened toDay.

On top of that he is right. Joey isn't here to explain why he targeted J, and speculation we lead to wifom and is no where near enough of a reason to kill Gova toDay.


Zen, you have been so scummy so far. Stop just throwing out accusation and actually back them with a reason. Your vote is jumpy around like crazy on top of that. Why is Asdioh scummy to you now?

Vote: Evil Soup

He went along with the JTB lynch and even said things like this:

guys, let's ****ing party.

all gloves off.

http://z0r.de/1332

After the lynch. He was online during the lynch, but he never spoke up and when votes started piling up he never removed his. Then when JTB showed up and was upset about his lynch, suddenly Evil Soup says they didn't think the lynch would actually happen, their vote was just for pressure. Bull****. Even if he felt bad about the lynch after JTB showed up, he cannot just backpedal and pretend he was against the lynch.

 

[Xivii]

Like July.

 

[Asdioh]

ah crap, in the process of rereading and just quoted July and Zen... oh well, posting anyway.

Lol jtb usalty because I get you Mislynched erryday.

Hi J! I will not give up!

I really wish Joey were here to explain what happened to the plan. I really wanted to know about one of Evil Soup or Zen and I think scum is to be found in one of them. I reread on Asdioh at Night when I could and I feel better about him, especially considering his more recent play.

<3

Could you explain why you say this? All I saw that provoked this was Asdioh voting you, is that the only reason is he is dumb?

I feel like we have to force stances out of you Zen >.>

<3

He was online during the lynch, but he never spoke up and when votes started piling up he never removed his. Then when JTB showed up and was upset about his lynch, suddenly Evil Soup says they didn't think the lynch would actually happen, their vote was just for pressure. Bull****. Even if he felt bad about the lynch after JTB showed up, he cannot just backpedal and pretend he was against the lynch.

Agreed so hard. I am gonna pay attention to ES during my reread, but currently I agree with July and he is one of my top lynch choices.

Like July.

You can't respond to me, but you can lurk until one of the most obvtown (imo) players posts so you can simply say this?

[*]I do not confirm or deny the existence of any awesome roles such as Jester etc. in this game. If such roles do exist, expect that adequate counterbalance has been taken for them.

srsly

 

[Asdioh]

J posts a big iso on Evil Soup, I suggest you all at least take a look at it again: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12564866&postcount=355

more about J and ES http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12565870&postcount=395

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12565887&postcount=398 just looking at the first line shows Ghebs observation skills

Gheb's town imo.

Ghebs 413 and 414 show more keen observation and scumhunting. I've been second-guessing myself on his alignment, but I'll stick with my townread on him because I'm pretty sure he is.

Because after rereading, here's the thing. My initial "towny" read on her was, and I'll admit it, WAS based on meta. I still think her "Redirection" wasn't really redirection, and that was not based on meta. But thinking she was towny was entirely because of meta, so I realized she should be null to me. Then she was like "yeah asdioh might be scum because he defended me :3" *votes for him* at the most convenient time
and i'm like oh no you didn't

I think the wagon on me D1 was pretty wrong, but I am glad it happened because it made me realize this. I called Smarg town, incorrectly, when I should have been calling her null at best. After rereading, I'm definitely seeing potential scum, and now with Zens actions on top of that, yes, scum.

Alright I'm done pressuring Asdioh btw. I think he's town now.

Sue me.

He's hard for me to read and I always wanted to push Asdioh really hard and now it's time to go back and look at what I did. From pushing him to a very extreme extent I think I finally see what I need to base the reactions I saw off of.

ES is grimy as hell.

Glad he posts this, though he later puts me back in the possible scum category

Anyway, I think his 180 on me is the main reason Joey (who is no longer playing, and thus can't help me understand this -_-) decided to target J for his vig. I don't agree with his choice, but I'll just have to believe him for now. Joey (Gova) is town.

Lol back off your highest scumread and then when there is **** on you and were gonna go with your lynch you put the finger on me? Rofl

This is beyond funny, but it is is also beyond bull****, I can't help but laugh.

J is being a ***, that's what, hammer him hammer him hammer him!

scuuuum

on page 12 of my reread, that's enough for now though. This is the old list of players I had in my personal notes, from who knows how long ago back in D1:

1. Evil Soup (Dark Horse/Soupamario) - null leaning scum
2. J - town
3. Aggressive Mediation (Ryker/Washed Laundry) - null
4. Roxy - null
5. Glyph - null
6. Asdioh - town
7. Smargaret - null leaning scum
8. JTB - null
9. July - town
10. Terywj - null
11. T-block - town
12. Gheb_01 - town
13. -Joey- - leaning scum

Here is the updated list!

1. Evil Soup - scum
4. Roxy - townish maybe? not much to go on.
5. Glyph - ehhh, will figure this out soon I hope.
6. Asdioh - town
7. Zen - scum
9. July - town
10. Terywj - townish? his earlier posts contained a lot of fluff, but he's been trying I guess...
11. T-block - town
12. Gheb_01 - town
13. -Joey- - town since I believe his claim.

 

[July]

@Asdioh: I agree with almost all your reads.

Evil Soup/Zen are my top scum picks, and I think that at least one scum is in there, and I wouldn't be surprised if both are scum.

Roxy and Glyph are essentially wild cards, need to hear more from them. And I really need to read up on Roxy because I honestly don't remember his stances from yesterDay.

Tery leaning town, early posts were a bit fluffy but understandable with the wisdom teeth situation. Would like to hear his updated reads though.

Myself, Gova, Gheb, Asdioh, and T-Block I have town reads on.


@T-Block: What are your thoughts on Zen?

 

[Gova]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12565887&postcount=398 just looking at the first line shows Ghebs observation skills

Ghebs 413 and 414 show more keen observation and scumhunting. I've been second-guessing myself on his alignment, but I'll stick with my townread on him because I'm pretty sure he is.

Really? 413 is just Gheb calling J scum for posting stupidly. Is that really scumhunting to you? 414 isn't any better lol. It was obviously fake as J didn't even role claim, he just name claimed and made up an ability. How many people thought his claim was BS anyways? Can't say much about 398 either, as you didn't link the post where Gheb actually goes into detail on why he thought J was scum which would be the actual scumhunting.

Anyway, I think his 180 on me is the main reason Joey (who is no longer playing, and thus can't help me understand this -_-) decided to target J for his vig. I don't agree with his choice, but I'll just have to believe him for now. Joey (Gova) is town.

Did J piss off Joey by any chance? That's probably the reason he's dead lol.

13. -Joey- - town since I believe his claim.

Looool really? You seemed like you were ready to lynch him earlier. I'd be more inclined to beleive you if you found something else to make you think Joey is town.

 

[Asdioh]

Really? 413 is just Gheb calling J scum for posting stupidly. Is that really scumhunting to you? 414 isn't any better lol. It was obviously fake as J didn't even role claim, he just name claimed and made up an ability. How many people thought his claim was BS anyways? Can't say much about 398 either, as you didn't link the post where Gheb actually goes into detail on why he thought J was scum which would be the actual scumhunting.

idk, it just seems like Gheb is being observant and pointing out what he thinks is BS that people post. He was right in saying that AM calling J scummy was faked. He was right about guessing their roles. He was right about the claim being bull. I might find more scumhunting when I continue my read.

Did J piss off Joey by any chance? That's probably the reason he's dead lol.

Probably.

Looool really? You seemed like you were ready to lynch him earlier. I'd be more inclined to beleive you if you found something else to make you think Joey is town.

Eh. I thought Joey was scummy before the claim, but AM believed him, and JoeyGova admitted to being the one that shot J, so that's enough honesty for me to believe the claim for now, and to move onto players that are far scummier.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Vote: Zen

Will elaborate after school / tennis match. But everyone except Gova should know full well why this vote is here.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote Gova

Convince me you're not SK. A vig would've reread and picked up J's obvious mason breadcrumbs, which were the reason I was willing to let off J. Even if it wasn't you but Joey who shot I highly doubt that a vigilante would've made such a risky, uneducated choice when Zen continues to be blatant vig fodder and when Glyph was about to be replaced and Roxy was useless all around.
Fun fact: J was fairly suspicious of Joey D1 and mentioned that quite a number of times and - let's be honest - what's the most common fake claim for SK? You guessed it - Vigilante.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why are some people voting zen lol

@gheb

Stop ninjaing me you ****, I was making a case on My phone.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

By the way gheb, you scum?

In other notes, I wonder why scum didn't pick up on My softclaim and didn't nk me hmmm..

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Votecount 2-2

Zen [2]: Asdioh, Terywj
Evil Soup [1]: July
Asdioh [1]: Zen
Gova [1]: Gheb

Not Voting: Evil Soup, Roxy, Glyph, T-block, Gova


Evil Soup
Roxy
Glyph
Asdioh > Zen
Zen > Gova > Glyph > Asdioh
July > Evil Soup
Terywj > Zen
T-block
Gheb > Gova
Gova

------------------------------------------------------------

A reminder: All members of a hydra should post using that hydra.

 

[Xivii]

I don't know why people have such a hard time grasping the concept of me being extremely busy and not having read yet. People keep asking me questions about stances and biz and expecting me to answer them when I haven't even read most of the game and then calling it suspicious that I am not answering. I can't answer something that I don't have an answer to lol.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No Soup, I'm not scum.

 

[Gova]

Vote Gova

Convince me you're not SK. A vig would've reread and picked up J's obvious mason breadcrumbs, which were the reason I was willing to let off J. Even if it wasn't you but Joey who shot I highly doubt that a vigilante would've made such a risky, uneducated choice when Zen continues to be blatant vig fodder and when Glyph was about to be replaced and Roxy was useless all around.
Fun fact: J was fairly suspicious of Joey D1 and mentioned that quite a number of times and - let's be honest - what's the most common fake claim for SK? You guessed it - Vigilante.

Did you think Joey was an SK yesterday? If no, why did you wait until toDay to call him out as an SK? If the mason crumbs were so obvious, who's to say that the mafia didn't see them too and decide to shoot J/AM as well? If this paragraph is the reason you think im scum then lol because it's purely speculation.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Did you think Joey was an SK yesterday? If no, why did you wait until toDay to call him out as an SK?

No, I didn't think so yesterDay and why would I call him out if I didn't think so? Your question doesn't even make sense. I call him out now because based on his kill choice I find it very, very hard to believe that he's a Vigilante - something I couldn't have known yesterDay. In fact, most people could've simply agreed with him shooting an inactive player and we would've gone into toDay strong.

If the mason crumbs were so obvious, who's to say that the mafia didn't see them too and decide to shoot J/AM as well? If this paragraph is the reason you think im scum then lol because it's purely speculation.

How is it speculation when you already claimed that Joey shot J? It's not like my argument is based on speculation - your playerslot *has* killed J and deliberately so. Don't try to make this look like it's a matter of assumption when we know it for a fact.
This has nothing to do with the mafia ... it's entirely irrelevant whether they chose to shoot J / AM or not. Don't derail the issue.

 

[Asdioh]

Fun fact: J was fairly suspicious of Joey D1 and mentioned that quite a number of times and - let's be honest - what's the most common fake claim for SK? You guessed it - Vigilante.

I'd rather keep him alive for now, as long as he promises to actually kill the targets the majority of players suggest. We can lynch him later if we're desperately in need of a scum lynch.
I'm inclined to believe that his vig of J was a vigilante hoping he was right/having a distaste for J.

Please provide thoughts on players such as Zen/ES?

 

[T-block]

Sorry guys - fell behind a bit. I'll hopefully be caught up by tomorrow.

@July: Sorta skimmed Day 2 so far, but Zen seems to be useless, as he has been in Day 1. He has one okay post on Glyph toDay, but it is backed by fairly weak reasoning.

Not liking Joey/Gova, but more because I'm confused at his NK choice.

@Gheb: SK wants to kill mafia too, no? Wouldn't SK/vig behave the same way at this point in the game?

 

[Gova]

Gheb, the speculation is what a vig *would/should* have done/seen. The fact is that Joey didn't shoot how you expected and now it looks like you think he's scum for it. I don't know why Joey chose to shoot J but if it was because he thought he was scum then what difference does it make?

 

[Asdioh]

Soup, I have no idea what your softclaim is. Also, post on your hydra, what the hell.

 

[T-block]

@Gheb: Why is Joey not mafia? Both mafia and SK have NKs, but it makes sense for mafia Joey to kill J, while I don't see why SK Joey would.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd rather keep him alive for now, as long as he promises to actually kill the targets the majority of players suggest. We can lynch him later if we're desperately in need of a scum lynch.

And what if he continues to shoot people we don't want him to shoot? What if he hits another important PR? How long are we going to tolerate this?

Please provide thoughts on players such as Zen/ES?

Despite - or rather because of - Zen claiming to have read too little to make decent input he's not in a position to blindly buddy anybody like he did D1. I'm down to lynch him if he continues to stall like that - would probably an effective mafia tactic after getting rid of 2 confirmable players ... I can see him being a Mafia PR.

Soup is also on the scummy side of my player list ... his "soft-claim" shenanigans and "wondering why he wasn't killed" look like fake pro-town input. Same for his nearly replacing-out D1 ... he can die.

@Gheb: SK wants to kill mafia too, no? Wouldn't SK/vig behave the same way at this point in the game?

Who cares about how they *would* behave in an "indeal" case? Point is that Joey's shot reeks of blatant self-preservation. Granted, staying alive is also in the Vigilante's best interest but would he base his NK choice on that? Do you think he wouldn't bother the reread as Vig and reconsider his shot? Do you not think he'd prefer to take the safer pick on N1 by shooting an inactive player?

There are too many holes and assumptions when we look at him as Vig ... and I don't like entertaining the "he's playing too dumb to be scum" idea - because it's usually scum who does that.

 

[Gova]

I haven't read this game at all. Did Joey think J was scum during D1?

 

[T-block]

^Agreed on that, Gheb. What about Joey being mafia?

Gova, yes he did.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, the speculation is what a vig *would/should* have done/seen. The fact is that Joey didn't shoot how you expected and now it looks like you think he's scum for it. I don't know why Joey chose to shoot J but if it was because he thought he was scum then what difference does it make?

What difference does it make? We've lost two active players with easily verifiable roles after leaving plenty of breadcrumbs ... do I really have to tell you where the difference lies in taking such a pointlessly risky shot on D1 when there was plenty of fodder?

@Gheb: Why is Joey not mafia? Both mafia and SK have NKs, but it makes sense for mafia Joey to kill J, while I don't see why SK Joey would.

A mafia fake-claiming Vigilante? A Vig claim can - and is expected - to be verified with results. A mafioso can not produce such results on his own.

And even with that mentioned - does it matter? Indy or mafia, we're out to lynch scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I haven't read this game at all. Did Joey think J was scum during D1?

J also thought Joey was scum, which is why the shot reeks of self-preservation so much.

 

[Asdioh]

And what if he continues to shoot people we don't want him to shoot? What if he hits another important PR? How long are we going to tolerate this?

Then we will absolutely lynch him toMorrow for being ********. If he really is the SK like you suggest, then it was idiotic for him to bring attention to himself in the first place by going against the vig suggestions and hitting town.

Who cares about how they *would* behave in an "indeal" case? Point is that Joey's shot reeks of blatant self-preservation. Granted, staying alive is also in the Vigilante's best interest but would he base his NK choice on that? Do you think he wouldn't bother the reread as Vig and reconsider his shot? Do you not think he'd prefer to take the safer pick on N1 by shooting an inactive player?

There are too many holes and assumptions when we look at him as Vig ... and I don't like entertaining the "he's playing too dumb to be scum" idea - because it's usually scum who does that.

See, safer pick. :x

Nah, I think letting Gova live for another day to see if he can produce results is the best course of action.

 

[T-block]

There was only one kill, Gheb. It would be an odd claim, but it would fit with this situation. I just found it a little weird that you would jump to Joey being SK instead of Joey being mafia, which you might do if you were mafia yourself. But your reasoning is sound enough I suppose.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

There were two deaths, T-Block. And not every kill attempt is always successful.

But I'm willing to leave Gova around for a while if we go by Asdioh's plan and have him shoot on town's discretion. If he hits mafia they'll be forced to kill him sooner or later anyway I guess...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

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