Pivot Ledgegrab.

[LowFatHat]

I would like to discuss a few things about pivot ledgegrabs.

I've been mindlessly wandering battlefield in training mode trying to practice some pesky falco stuff that I've been doing badly with for the last hour or so. I started abandoning that to try out the pivot ledgegrab. Maybe I'm just bad with the timing, but I'm so inconsistent with it, and I never see anyone really use it, even though it seems so useful to me. Especially characters with longer dash animations.

Anyway, my questions:
Is there a big usefullness factor for the pivot ledgegrabs, or is the timing of it too ridiculous to make it practical?
Can anyone explain how exactly they work, and how much of a time period you have to pivot?

Also, I've found that when I run towards the edge and short hop, so that my jump ends right near the ledge, I can easily just tap back and pivot ledgegrab about 85% of the time after about 15 minutes practice. Does that have to do with momentum, or anything else, or do you think it just gives me more of a landmark for when I need to turn around?

I appreciate any possible help.

EDIT: Mods, if you can't tell, this is NOT, I repeat NOT focusing on falco, which is why I put it in melee discussion.

 

[choknater]

the timing is so ridiculous! but this would definitely be the fastest ledge hog if people could do it consistently.

apart from isai SPAMMING pivot platform drop knees during his warmup at OC3, i have never seen anyone be able to do these consistently. maybe a challenge for lovage/sw/dark to include in their next vid?

im pretty sure its 1 frame

but idk the mechanics of it overall

 

[Acryte]

because there are way easier options you could just pc hog it or dash forward and quickly dashback into a bwd. its probably because both the spacing and the timing is tight

 

[Dark Hart]

Just PC Hog

The best way to practice how to do that it so walk out of a wavedash and then turnaround right when/right-before you get to the edge.

Also turnaround wavedash back also works lol

 

[Deleted member]

for falco/fox i think the best way to time the perfect grab is slow your descent using shine if you need to adjust

 

[LowFatHat]

For some reason I can do it almost consistently just running from the middle of the stage, short hopping and holding towards the ledge, then pivoting a small amount of time after landing. It seems like the momentum from the jump carries you onto the ledge after you've turned around. Even if it doesn't, you can do a quick WD back onto the ledge, as long as you pivot quickly after landing.

Seems like a very quick, easy, and abusable edgehog from midstage.

I would post a video but I have NO way of recording right now.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Shoutouts to lovezone. Lovage where you at?

 

[Gea]

Shoutouts to lovezone. Lovage where you at?

I was about to say this. Lovage made me interested in doing it. It isn't so tough. Best way imo is to briskly walk (as fast as you can before running) then do it. At least that way with Fox.

 

[Hydro_Smasher]

hard stuff. you have to be near the ledge while in your dash animation, turn around at the very tip of the edge, hope your momentum caries you off, and you grab from your pivot or turn aronud.

 

[LowFatHat]

hard stuff. you have to be near the ledge while in your dash animation, turn around at the very tip of the edge, hope your momentum caries you off, and you grab from your pivot or turn aronud.

I'm sorry if I was unclear.
I know how to DO it.
I just don't know specifics and if people found it useful. I was looking for opinions.
If it's a challenge for sw or dark, it's not for me hahahhaa.

How does the PC edgehog differ from it? I thought it was the same thing?

 

[DippnDots]

I'm sorry if I was unclear.
I know how to DO it.
I just don't know specifics and if people found it useful. I was looking for opinions.
If it's a challenge for sw or dark, it's not for me hahahhaa.

How does the PC edgehog differ from it? I thought it was the same thing?

PC is when you're walking and pivot, have the momentum carry you off the edge so you grab it.
From the sound of your OP, jumping right next to the edge then pivoting, it sounds like you're also using momentum to slide off. For instance, when you edge cancel an aerial but fall off the platform immediately afterward.

If that's the case, you're not doing anything different from the PC except the way you go about getting the momentum.

If it works for you though, go for it, it's a very good way to grab the edge in some circumstances. I try to do it whenever i uair edgeguard with ganon, you hit them then immediately fall and grab the ledge, too good >_>

 

[phanna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp_rPkqiFvM#t=2m50s

That's from 2007, inspired by Wes. Old news, great strat, no different timing than any pivot turn-around, simply pure spacing.

 

[choknater]

ppl needa learn the true pivot ledgegrab/ledge fall lol. i saw isai doing it in 07 so i think 2011 tech skill can catch up to him. so godlike

i would if i could

i dont have the skill

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i can do it kinda consistantly... but its not that practical. u also have to fastfall to grab the ledge if u plan on using it lol

its done by pivoting and teetering at the same time btw.

 

[Lovage]

very hard technique, made harder by the fact that it cant be done from every distance from the ledge, you gotta be certain distances away from it in order to be successful

its pretty good though, if someone was consistent with it they could trick a lot of ppl for a while

edit: just to make sure, this is what we're talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-3z7a7OEBI

 

[KAOSTAR]

Its alot easier to just PC walk off. Ie just walk and turn around, and if ur pro FF and grab ledge. Its the same concept, you just turn around right b4 u get to the edge and your momentum carries you over. PC walkoffs are pretty common, but they dont allow you to get there lol, like in a hurry.

Pivs as lovage said...cant do em from every distance, and everycharacter doesnt even have a fast dash.

ppl just WD, enter the walking state and pc walk off or WD turn around WD. some characters M2/zelda/sheik teleport, spacies can do side B, shine turnaround firefox stall, running shine turnaround WD back

If you run and sh and then turn around....its probably not a pivot, I highly doubt if dashed which is required to pivot, u prob just walked and turned around.




The fastest way to grab the ledge for spacies, maybe even in the game...Run at the edge, shine turn around ledge jump cancel. You space your shine turnaround so that when u jump out of your shine...u slide off the edge during your prejump or Kneebend phase and it cancels. You cancel your shine with jump, but then u slide off the ledge b4 your jump actually happens, and u just grab ledge.

Do what u want, but make sure the method you use is fast enough for the amount of time that you have...most important. Next that you can do it consistently. There are plenty of options to choose from.

 

[keeper]

As others have said, there are a lot easier of options that do the same exact thing at pretty much the same speed.

I mean, if you want to play flashy, sure. Otherwise, don't over complicate edgehogging and stuff.

 

[Metal Reeper]

The Metal Reeper combo - You Knee with falcon>edge cancel>Pivot drop>Bair.

I've done it <3

 

[KAOSTAR]

How do you pivot from an edge cancel lol?

 

[Kanelol]

Pivot ledgehogging is pretty hard with space animals

it's literally the hardest tech skill thing IN THE GAME with Mario

and kind of extraneous

 

[Metal Reeper]

How do you pivot from an edge cancel lol?

It must be possible because I've done it more than afew times. Unless i Didn't platform cancel and I just regular L canceled the knee>pivot drop bair. I think I Knee>edge cancel>pivot drop>Bair'd cause it was so dam fast.

Either way it's really fast and I'd like to see it more in videos. I could imagine right now, high level fox's Nair>Edge pivot drop>Bair. That would be sex!

 

[mers]

I'm pretty sure you can't directly edgecancel to pivot drop. When you edgecancel you usually don't bother to L-cancel, so you are in the lag from the aerial until you slide off and are airborne again. It's probably possible to L-cancel but retain the momentum from the air, so the lag ends and you can pivot right before you slide off. This would really just be a PC drop but with the momentum coming from the air instead of a walk.

 

[Beat!]

Pivot from edge cancel doesn't make any sense.

 

[KAOSTAR]

You have no room to run(u dont have to fall off tho, u can teeter) so you cant pivot...unless you did an L cancel and pivoted bair from like the middleton of the platform. Like Mers said its just a pc walk/drop off in that case.

Basically tho, if you bair like that as fox you end your combo if you have one going. Ur better off nairing>edgecancel reverse bair/(reg)na so they dont go as far...if they are at high percents I dont think you can do it fast enough to hit with the bair.

 

[Stratford]

God the lovezone is so badass.

 

[LowFatHat]

Okay okay. Thanks. PC edgehog is much easier.
I realize that there are alternatives to grabbing the ledge (especially with spacies)
It was never really my intention to be able to pivot edgehog, unless it was found practical. I didn't know the exact time frame you had to do it, so I wasn't able to decide myself whether it was practical, although it didn't seem so. Thanks everyone for your help here.

And thanks to whoever pointed out that my jump -> turn around ledge grab was a PC edgehog. I can definitely see a wee bit of walking animation before the grab.

Anyone forsee tech skill developing to such an extreme?

 

[Gea]

It's not a matter if people can do it, it's a matter of practicality. It's a very little gain vs the amount of time to learn and integrate it.

 

[DippnDots]

you're ignoring the sexy factor

 

[Metal Reeper]

Yeah I was thinking I was wrong cause if I did that it means I wouldn't teeter cancel, which is how it works.

W/E I will just Nair>Edge canceL> Turn shine>Bair

 

[crush]

i usually just run forward and then reverse waveshine to edgehog when i play spacies

 

[Rubyiris]

I've been advocating this for years. I'm glad people are starting to understand how good this is.

To the people who say HURR JUST PC EDGEGUARD/SHINE TURNAROUND/ETC.

This is the fastest possible way to grab the ledge, and there ARE instances where you WILL have to perform this technique. There is absolutely no reason to limit yourself and not learn this technique and perfect it. This isn't just some bull**** super-technical uselessly flashy thing, it has real uses.

Get on it!

 

[DualCats]

It's not particularly difficult to perform. I can do it and I suck.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

like with marth dtilt->pivot drop FF->stuff

fast falling it makes it wayy better

 

[crush]

I've been advocating this for years. I'm glad people are starting to understand how good this is.

To the people who say HURR JUST PC EDGEGUARD/SHINE TURNAROUND/ETC.

This is the fastest possible way to grab the ledge, and there ARE instances where you WILL have to perform this technique. There is absolutely no reason to limit yourself and not learn this technique and perfect it. This isn't just some bull**** super-technical uselessly flashy thing, it has real uses.

Get on it!

can you do it consistently? its really really hard to do

 

[DualCats]

It really depends on the character. It's difficult but it's certainly not insurmountable.

 

[Merkovski]

i usually just run forward and then reverse waveshine to edgehog when i play spacies

Same here. As a Falco main, I also run off to forward-b toward the ledge. But if they're close to the ledge they can sometimes grab it before I do, and I end up giving them a free edgehog stock. -__-

 

[crush]

Same here. As a Falco main, I also run off to forward-b toward the ledge. But if they're close to the ledge they can sometimes grab it before I do, and I end up giving them a free edgehog stock. -__-

i also like reverse waveshine because you can drop below the edge from it by fastfalling right away to hit them with a bair or something

 

[Rubyiris]

again, anybody saying to "just do something else lol" is wrong, and will never improve with an attitude like that. There are other, more simple techniques, but a correct pivot ledge grab has NO falling animation. You just teleport to the ledge from the stage.

Learn how to do this from a dash dance. It's difficult until you understand the timing, then it becomes easier and easier to replicate, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TECHNIQUE IN THE GAME.

can you do it consistently? its really really hard to do

I can with Fox and Captain Falcon, and it's only hard because you're not really sure what you're looking for. Once you do it on accident enough times you'll start to notice when you're doing to cause it to happen, and be able to more and more consistently replicate it, then begin to experiment with it in-game.

 

[DualCats]

I cannot do it with Captain Falcon >_< It's not so bad with spacies, though. Incidentally, it's fairly easy with G&W.

 

[Rubyiris]

I cannot do it with Captain Falcon >_< It's not so bad with spacies, though. Incidentally, it's fairly easy with G&W.

I can't even DD with G&W so hats off to you!