Pit General Match-Up Thread

[Archangel]

If you play to win...no, Pit has very little bad MU's. You are like...7th fastest in the game, Gayest projectile in the game...idk...you have alot of tools.

@ Mizu...50-50 vs GnW? and I'm playing frauds?

 

[BRLNK88]

I doubt you've actually played competent users of all the characters listed in your MU ratios.
You really think Pit beats Marth? lol

 

[Archangel]

This is very true. However, for now all I can do is bounce ideas around with other pit players who do have experience in match-ups that I don't play like lucario for example.

Much like this demo my MU chart and pretty much all character's MU charts are subject to change.

 

[BJN39]

I will say Archangel got Zeldait right though.

It's like, her most annoying MU, maybe one of her hardest MUs.

 

[Vixen]

Marth vs Pit is moderately pit favored based on my experience with Taj and Tee Ay Eye

 

[BRLNK88]

This is very true. However, for now all I can do is bounce ideas around with other pit players who do have experience in match-ups that I don't play like lucario for example.

Much like this demo my MU chart and pretty much all character's MU charts are subject to change.

I have played Link/Pit before, IMO its dead even.
They both combo each other well, can zone each other out and can edgeguard each other well.
If Link wins the zoning battle, he's gonna kill Pit pretty fast. Pit I feel is at best when edgeguarding Link.
TL/Pit I think is slight Pit, simply because of how bad TL is off stage.
Marth beats Pit 60:40, maybe 55:45.

 

[Vixen]

link has advantage over Pit. Link has absurd range, better projectiles, strong, guaranteed punishes, and strong, guaranteed kill set ups/combos.

TL is pretty heavily TL favor. He has everything Link has, a good recovery with absurd horizontal range (l2 glide toss and bomb jump, scrubs)

Pit beats Marth 55:45/60:40 Pit has a very strong shield, very strong OOS options, extremely strong punishes vs Marth's weight and falling speed, and very reliable edgeguards. Marth's combos vs Pit are weak, and rely on guesses, and mixups for heavy punishes, and Marth lacks a reliable kill combo vs Pit with good DI.

Says: Someone who plays with better players.

 

[BRLNK88]

I do know how to glide toss and bomb jump with high accuracy, I still think Pit ***** TL off stage.
If Tink can't establish stage control he's in bad shape.
His recovery is only decent when he's recovering horizontally above the stage, where you have plenty of room to glide toss/bomb jump. If he's below the stage, doesn't matter how good you are at AGT, once he loses his 2nd jump, if your opponent has half an idea how to edge guard you die. I think his up-B distance still needs to be buffed up to YL's so he can recover quickly from short distances (where his tether can't reach). Furthermore, his bomb jumps don't give him any horizontal momentum.

 

[Vixen]

Pit does not have a lot of tools to send Link and Tink a far distance far, and below the stage, so typically Link/Tink can recover with imputany. I find that I typically have to outright kill both characters on most stages, or really work for an edgeguard.

 

[BRLNK88]

That's also assuming though that you've surrendered stage control.
Tink and Link, especially Link, don't do so well when they're under pressure.
It's one aspect that will still make the spacies troublesome match-ups.

 

[Vixen]

troublesome, but completely doable.

 

[Juushichi]

****** pit has like a 50/50 vs gnw. stop playing frauds

Honestly, I think that GnW vs Pit is somewhere in the range of 40-60, 45-55. There's some degree in difficulty in Pit having to deal with GnW's options, sure... but I think that his speed in the keep away and CQC combat game is a bit better in dealing with GnW than he... it(?) wants to deal with. I found myself having to react more than I wanted to pursue, but that might just be the character. I think Pit definitely want to go in on GnW because camping him doesn't really seem to net that much reward on him. It also seems pretty hard to recover against Pit because of his awesome ability in that department.

Maybe aggressive edgeguards are the way to go vs Watch and I still haven't ran into a Pit (not that I have played more than like... 3, lol) that will attempt to Mirror Shield my Up-B yet. I got by relatively decently against you, Mizuki but I remember still losing more often than I won and... well, HankyPanky is a monster that I am only now starting to get the idea of how to deal with.

So, I may be a bit biased.

In short, I think GnW vs Pit is Pit's favor... moderately at the most.

 

[Archangel]

GnW Goes 50-50 with like...3 people, maybe 4 that I can think of. Everyone else is 55-45 60-40 65-35...etc...etc worst character in the game...etc.

 

[BRLNK88]

G&W is like the 64 Samus of Project M.

 

[Vixen]

Disagree. Juushichi scared me with dat GnW. I respect the character now.

I think our opinion of GnW is flawed.

 

[Archangel]

He scared you, he shocked you...with that comes a reasonable amount of scarring but...I think alot of it could just be that. New animal being introduced.

When I say GnW is the worst in the game I feel like he's as good as Melee Link and everyone else is better.

Those of us who played good/great links for the first time can remember the fear lol. However, past that phase you start to learn more about his weaknesses and he becomes not much of a big deal from then on.

GnW in PM is the same.

 

[Vixen]

No, I'm sure we just aren't aware of what GnW can do, and he's better than we initially thought.

 

[McNinja]

I agree with Mizu. I play against a G&W main every day. He's still a pretty dang good character imo. His hitboxes stay out FOREVER. And when his hitboxes do finally end, his Dtilt come out super fast and has a ton of range negating most punishes.

Okay that's enough of my rant. Basically, he has a great combo game, and a super safe approach.

 

[Archangel]

maybe you don't shoot him enough with your arrows. The more you shoot him the easier it gets.

 

[Juushichi]

I actually think the more you shoot him, the harder it gets for you.

With one shot, you give us a 10% damage b-reversable disjoint that outranges all of your grounded moves... including ftilt. Just in case you weren't aware, what I'm referring to is Oil Panic, which you can release from any level; One, Two or Three.

Just tested this with GnW and Pit, btw. I already apply this concept to Falco.

 

[Archangel]

I actually think the more you shoot him, the harder it gets for you.

With one shot, you give us a 10% damage b-reversable disjoint that outranges all of your grounded moves... including ftilt. Just in case you weren't aware, what I'm referring to is Oil Panic, which you can release from any level; One, Two or Three.

Just tested this with GnW and Pit, btw. I already apply this concept to Falco.

it's a good move for GnW but...you realize how lame pit can be played right? Like...you realize he can Mirror everything in the game minus Mario's cape....idk man...idk man.(ken impression)

 

[Vixen]

Archangel, you should stop advocating playing like a ******, and help me develop more ways to be aggressive.

 

[Archangel]

Archangel, you should stop advocating playing like a ******, and help me develop more ways to be aggressive.

you don't understand....I've finally figured it out, Pit is a sheik that has wings. He is destined to be a ****ing ******.

But I'll look into finding a more entertaining way of playing GnW and I'll get back to you.

Semi-nongay approach would be fake out arrow. Purposely missing an arrow to bait out the DownB from GnW...then idk..go from there. I'll look more.

 

[Juushichi]

Yeah, bucket isn't the end all be all.

But it's one of the tools that helps GnW play his defense. I'd love to play an extremely gay Pit so I could learn my way around it. Personally, I come from a lame background. Players trying to play like Brawl players/character are very comfortable for me to deal with. I've getting accustomed to the faster pace styles.

 

[Vixen]

I'd rather just have the opportunity to play Juushichi some more myself. Those matches were fun!

 

[Archangel]

I'll have to get around to playing your GnW somehow.

 

[Juushichi]

Well, I'm going to try to make my way out to Evolution and/or Genesis for those on the WC.

Maybe I'll decide to head out to the EC some time as well. I've got some fam around NY. Maybe I'll call in something.

 

[Archangel]

try to make it to the next Zenith. Alex is going to allow full PM there as of the last time I talked to him.

 

[BlinkIV]

I don't think G&W is a hard MU at all for Pit, after playing against Oracle's G&W and Dakpo's as well.

 

[Archangel]

I think the difficulty is in the play-style atm. If go right into GnW's wheelhouse and play him in that kind of style he's got an even chance of coming out on top. Especially with is subtle range and priority advantages in close.

 

[BlinkIV]

I still don't agree with Pit Vs Spacies in his favor, or Diddy slightly in his favor. I've been playing Disqo_Bunny, and SpiderMad's Diddy, and I say it's slightly Diddy's favor, Pit can only keep up if he lands a combo or a gimp, but Diddy has an easy time edgeguarding Pit imo. The only thing Pit has going for him against Spacies is just how he can gimp them easily. But still, I think Falco is his worst MU (Out of the spacies), and this is coming from an aggressive Pit player. Falco can outcamp him with lasers, combo and gimp Pit rather easily. I barely beat a Falco in tournament despite he didn't know the Pit MU, and it was his first time playing P:M (Melee Falco).

 

[Archangel]

I still don't agree with Pit Vs Spacies in his favor, or Diddy slightly in his favor. I've been playing Disqo_Bunny, and SpiderMad's Diddy, and I say it's slightly Diddy's favor, Pit can only keep up if he lands a combo or a gimp, but Diddy has an easy time edgeguarding Pit imo. The only thing Pit has going for him against Spacies is just how he can gimp them easily. But still, I think Falco is his worst MU (Out of the spacies), and this is coming from an aggressive Pit player. Falco can outcamp him with lasers, combo and gimp Pit rather easily. I barely beat a Falco in tournament despite he didn't know the Pit MU, and it was his first time playing P:M (Melee Falco).

It's a MU that you have to play alot in order to understand how easy it is. I mean...it's technically never easy to beat a Falco but...I recall someone telling me once a long time ago that Sheik vs Falco was 50-50 and I was like....**** you. Everytime I played sheik vs a good Falco I got kicked all over the place but after a year or 2 of getting my ass whooped I figured out how to approach(or not approach) a Falco. Pit vs Falco is alot like Sheik vs falco...in a sense. I would get into it but I gotta go lol.

 

[BlinkIV]

In terms of how the characters play, imo. Falco beats Pit in a close-range field. But if Pit were to camp against him, he's got lasers. Which do shut down Pit's arrow game, because of how fast Falco can fire them.

 

[Archangel]

In terms of how the characters play, imo. Falco beats Pit in a close-range field. But if Pit were to camp against him, he's got lasers. Which do shut down Pit's arrow game, because of how fast Falco can fire them.

Learn to SH Down-B you make his fast lasers even faster and at long range where he can't reach you in time his camping measures are turned against him. It's worst than shield reflect because his lasers come back at lightning speed. Once you get this part down it'll improve this MU drastically imo.

Then when you want to approach or get in close you have to learn to play the spacing game correctly. Head to head Falco will beat out most of your moves or he'll simply shield grab you. So you have to sort of get between 3-4 character lengths away from him or farther away.

Once he gets tired of his own lasers smacking him in the face Falco's typically say **** it and try to go in because....well he's falco. This is when spacing becomes most important. Subtle movements and retreating WD's and you can get Falco in the wrong position in which case you can then Place an aerial, grounded attack (dtilt, dash attack, Usmash) something to get him into the air and then from that point on take advantage of your superior wings.

 

[BlinkIV]

Well, yeah, of course SH Down-B is a viable option, but realistically, it wouldn't work everytime you needed it, for every laser that Falco shoots, due to how fast he does it, unless you just SH Down-B and leave it there. But even then, that risks a punish for Falco to get on you.

Falco also doesn't have a hard time gimping Pit, but he does get gimped pretty darn easily by Pit, that's the only thing I think Pit has the advantage of in this MU, is just being able to gimp quickly. It just seems like, Pit should wait for Falco to mess up and then take advantage of it to win, but in a fair neutral game, I do definitely say Falco's favor, at least 60-40.

 

[Archangel]

Well, yeah, of course SH Down-B is a viable option, but realistically, it wouldn't work everytime you needed it, for every laser that Falco shoots, due to how fast he does it, unless you just SH Down-B and leave it there. But even then, that risks a punish for Falco to get on you.

Falco also doesn't have a hard time gimping Pit, but he does get gimped pretty darn easily by Pit, that's the only thing I think Pit has the advantage of in this MU, is just being able to gimp quickly. It just seems like, Pit should wait for Falco to mess up and then take advantage of it to win, but in a fair neutral game, I do definitely say Falco's favor, at least 60-40.

Believe it or not running away and holding out your shield at a distance is a viable strategy. It is insane but it works from a safe distance. Up close Falco's will fake a laser and grab you once they've stopped shooting themselves in the face. Grab i the only thing you really have to worry about when using the Mirror. If he goes for a Nair,Dair and you tilt the shield up he will just bounce off..so really all you have to worry about is getting grabbed. If you get grabbed you'll probably get ***** for about 30% maybe more maybe less depending on your % you could end up dead.

Falco doesn't have a hard time gimping pit....depending on what stage you are on and how you DI. If you are coming from the bottom of the stage you will have to watch out Falco's Dair is still very dumb. If you are tricky with your up-b or if you manage to glide under the stage and to the other side before he gets there you might be ok. It's sort of situational and stage dependent but 1/2 the legal stages have no solid wall for the stage so...there is a chance you'll be able to go under it.

As for gimping Falco you did get that part right. I've made 3stock comebacks just by tossing him off, getting a good read, placing and arrow and GG. Don't even have to jump out with anything risky at all just shoot and done....it feels so wrong almost.

Perhaps it's the part of me that played Marth/Sheik vs Falco for so long...but everything about Falco feels easier to deal with for me minus getting the tech-chases perfectly and using the temp-chain grabs if they DI wrong. On platform stages I've started using the Uthrow to get them onto platforms and then hitting them in the air-off stage from there.

Now...the worst..and I mean WORST parts about this MU to me vs Falco is the fact that I can't space on his shield safely without getting grabbed and even if I do hit there is a good chance a falco that knows what he's doing will CC Shine me unless I get the spike hitbox on the Dair.

Going for a grab is ok but...it feels like Pit doesn't have a JC grab...am I the only one that notices almost no difference?...but yeah when you do see what might be an opening you can create...it's usually a lie because of designs of Falco/Pit. So most of the time I've found mindgame like Glide-Bair-Nair-Uair-Dair on the back side of Falco but spaced so you are outside of falco's OoS Bair range. Or a glide-glide cancel grab(if opening is there) Dash in WD back, Fake Dash attack and Dtilt instead, jab (jab combos)....just...silly stuff and basic faints seem to be all you got but man...if it works you can punish Falco so ****ing hard.

I am not ready to say the MU is 60-40 at least in favor of Falco I am aware that nobody Dr.PP/Mango has played me yet and I'm not sure Falco can currently even be played on that level in PM yet. However...a Falco of that level might be able to make the MU seem 60-40 at least but all things consider. I see the match-up getting better for pit as time goes on. We angelic mains just have to work at it. and...hopefully in the next update pit will get 1....at least 1 aerial that you can space on a brawl shield and not get *****-slapped....

 

[BlinkIV]

Yeah, that is true, but I do see a slight difference between Pit's dash grab, and his JC grab. It's probably not that big of a difference to you, since you've played Marth, and Marth's just a much better and longer JC grab that's heavily noticable.

From what you're telling me though, you're making it seem like this MU would be dependant on how well Pit can faint out Falco and land a gimp on him, seems like Pit has to put in much more effort to make this MU even, or in his favor, while Falco wouldn't have to, he'd probably just do basic Falco stuff if he WERE to land a hit on Pit (Assuming the Pit didn't do a good job spacing/fainting).

 

[Archangel]

Yeah, that is true, but I do see a slight difference between Pit's dash grab, and his JC grab. It's probably not that big of a difference to you, since you've played Marth, and Marth's just a much better and longer JC grab that's heavily noticable.

From what you're telling me though, you're making it seem like this MU would be dependant on how well Pit can faint out Falco and land a gimp on him, seems like Pit has to put in much more effort to make this MU even, or in his favor, while Falco wouldn't have to, he'd probably just do basic Falco stuff if he WERE to land a hit on Pit (Assuming the Pit didn't do a good job spacing/fainting).

I feel alot of what I find lacking or great in pit has to do with the characters I played/play in melee. JC grab feels so.....idk just like...pretty much the same to me but after doing both and taking a close look I see the differences.

What I am trying to say about this Match-up is...it's in the process of progress. Like you said Falco/Fox/Marth/Sheik/Puff...etc. All of which have establish styles and approaches can stick to doing what we call Typical *insert characters* stuff. Pit on the other hand is in the process of discovering what exactly is typical for him. Honestly it may seem like alot of effort but I find the Falco match-up to be less effort with Pit than it is with Marth. I'm use to dodging/powershielding lasers. I'm use to having to approach unsafely and look for/make openings to exploit. It's become synonyms with me as a player almost. I am so use to getting shot at by a stupid bird that I have no problem with it anymore. The combos, the typical falco fake-outs, the drop of ledge rising double shot/Dair to cover the ledge. the way he recovers and his recovery mix-ups involving walljumps and shine stalls,...etc. Everything about Falco is old to me now and for the most part I've been using a character who aside from range on attacks and grabs(if you don't count laser as range) has inferior tools compared to Pit. So...Having 4 jumps+wings and up-B, projectiles that I can shoot anywhere from anywhere, and one of the best edge-guarders in the game.....idk...Falco is always going to be difficult. Against good falco players if you aren't on their level as an individual and you are underdeveloped with a character I could see it feeling like 70-30. But...keep practicing, try to improve, try to get as much falco experience in as possible. I am worried about Fox and Falco and I try to play the MU as much as possible and I can say....it's easy but it's not complex. At least from my experience. I'll go into greater detail at some point. I am still in the process of gathering information. I'm not yet bold enough to make a claim like Pit having a slight edge because....well those words are a violation around these parts lol.

 

[BlinkIV]

"I am so use to getting shot at by a stupid bird" I lol'd at that.
But yeah, I get what you mean about it, I'd actually want to wait and play more Falco's here in the area, to get a better idea, and see which style would work better for Pit's favor. If camping would be the solution, or if just going in would work better. Sometimes mixing both up can be the better option imo. But speaking of MU's like this, are there any other MU's that do give you a problem? Or would like to discuss?

 

[Archangel]

"I am so use to getting shot at by a stupid bird" I lol'd at that.
But yeah, I get what you mean about it, I'd actually want to wait and play more Falco's here in the area, to get a better idea, and see which style would work better for Pit's favor. If camping would be the solution, or if just going in would work better. Sometimes mixing both up can be the better option imo. But speaking of MU's like this, are there any other MU's that do give you a problem? Or would like to discuss?

I'd say sonic. Sonic is the hardest person to fight at a high level for Pit. I've thought that since 2.1...it's one of those things where I'm like....lost.