Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
QFT. I think that's about all that needs to be said.My opinion.. whoever handles the 35/65+ matches the best is your best bet... 65/35 is Marth and G&W for sure, and maybe MK... Snake handles all 3 the best out of the 3 choices, as Snake is one of the very very few who can argue 55-45 against Marth, considered the best choice to fight MK, and counters G&W.
Other match ups that are 40/60 to 50/50 despite annoying are still possible to win as Pikachu if you know the match up well enough since its still majority skill based.
This.Yeah. I'm going to go with none of the above.
These characters are primarily the result of the discussion that went on in another thread in which they were generally deemed the best choices for seconds for a Pikachu main based on analyzing various match-ups.This.
You should have added a lot more characters or all of them.
Why not Snake who has a solid advantage over Marth and G&W?I put DK since he is 50-50 with both Marth and G&W, and IMO DK has to work less hard against them. MK is weird, but i can get out of tornado decently well, so i don't have to worry about getting gang ***** by that.
Name better ones then.This.
You should have added a lot more characters or all of them.
Marth. IMO, he takes care of the problems that Pika has.Name better ones then.
Thanks Hylian for this.
Big glaring weakness to MK :\Marth. IMO, he takes care of the problems that Pika has.
Well that is you being comfortable with Pika/Marth. I believe we are looking for the statistical best 2ndary :\Well, MK is MK. Like Stealth said, I believe that Pika does well enough against MK. Even so, I actually feel more comfortable fighting MK with Marth or Diddy than I do with anyone else. Between Pika and Marth, I believe that all match up basis are covered.
Marth is a good choice. If you feel comfortable using Pikachu against MK, I can understand why you'd go with Marth.Well, MK is MK. Like Stealth said, I believe that Pika does well enough against MK. Even so, I actually feel more comfortable fighting MK with Marth or Diddy than I do with anyone else. Between Pika and Marth, I believe that all match up basis are covered.
ZZS and DK aren't random choices thrown into the mix. They do fairly well against Pika's counters.ZSS and DK...?
I'd have to go with Snake if I had to choose between just those three. =S
Ok, I know this is going to sound kind of mean, but I say this with lots of <4 for everyone.ZZS and DK aren't random choices thrown into the mix. They do fairly well against Pika's counters.
Sigh...Tag....Ok, I know this is going to sound kind of mean, but I say this with lots of <4 for everyone.
What Im trying to figure out and have been silently laughing about for the past few days is why the heck we're discussing secondaries and their matchups when theres still a ton of questions about pikas matchups. And oddly those questions have been ignored when theyre coming from the likes of K Prime and Stealth Raptor.
I understand that the pika boards want to keep up with the content other boards are creating, but honestly I dont even bother reading stuff here anymore because it feels like its of the same poor quality that the other boards have as well. And I have a strong hunch Im not the only person who believes that. There really should have been a heavy focus on quality over quantity, and discussion on how to do this. It's not like there arent 10 pikas in the chatroom at any given time to discuss this.
Thank you for calling all my hard work poop. I would like to say that your threads have been highly influential to pika's metagame, but I can't seem to find any to back up my point.Now I understand that theres been a strong effort to try and organize the boards, and its been a very good effort, but you can rearrage poop into the tower of pizza and itll still be poop.
Of course these things aren't unrelated. They are all related to pikachu, duh. What's your plan for organizing all these things? Apparently my plan is a tower of pizza made of poop. I'd like to hear your ideas.Most of these things arent unrelated, there shouldve been some sort of plan about organizing these things in the first place so that one can lead into the other.
<3
I pretty much agree with everything Zylar said here.The reason I'm not inputing my opinion is because I've never been to a tourney ;_; thus I have very little say on anything. (I find it better to hold my tounge, even though I'm not right now. *shrugg*)
I did vote though. Went for the more logical choise imo, lol! (:
I am learning about many things. :D
I actually like all of this discussion, even if that means there are less threads being active.
Don't worry. I only went to my first tourney a month ago. Contribute any experience you have at all, as long as you don't play computers. For example, if your friend's a marth main, try to contribute to the marth matchup threads by telling up his favorite tricks. Any experience is helpful. For stage discussions, its just a matter of playing on the stage enough to understand its mechanics and any "tricks" you can do on that stage.I pretty much agree with everything Zylar said here.
K2 - and any of the more prominent Pikaboard organizers - Are there things that people like Zylar and I can do to really help out the Pikaboards, even though we don't attend tournaments or don't really play many different higher level players?
Me personally, All I play with right now is a few of my friends - I don't even have a copy of Brawl, I just play with my friend's copy. I would like to change this in the future, but as it is now, I'm very limited in the sort of work I can do; however, I would still love to help out the Pikaboards in ANY way possible.
Meow.
I'll write up the specialdaries and secondaries later today. Its a snow day, so I'll have plenty of time to do it.wtf. i mean seriously. i hate people who say things like tagzy or w/e his name is. we are trying to help out the community. you are hating us for an honorable attempt at trying to help out smash players who have trouble beating another character with pika. we are HELPING. wtf are you doing?!!!!! huh? nothin except, LIKE YOU SAID, sitting back and not commenting. well how about this. piss off. telling me that our discussions about matchups isn't worthwhile.
and K @...thank you for updating your thread with the secondaries and specialdaries. i promise you i will be finishing my matchups soon.
Read the other thread. We had a discussion as to what pikachu's best secondaries are and those three characters we discussed to be the best ones.Why must Pikachu secondary be limited to 3 characters?
From what I understand, the numbers are simply representing approximate level of difficulty in the form of ratio's. The numbers themselves don't actually represent any concrete value, but the ratio as a whole is attempting to describe a skewing of relative "power" between the two characters. I do agree, however, that I think the boards as a whole should come up with a standardized isomorphism of the current fraction system. The numbers do not reprisent anything concrete, and I really think it would be a good idea to replace them with something more accurate, such as: "Equal", "Nearly Equal" (slightly in one's favor or another), "In <character>'s favor", and "Heavily In <character>'s Favor". As far as I can tell, this is all the fractions are really saying anyway, so why not be more clear about it?[snip]
Second, that 30:70, 50:50, 90: 10 system of rating character matchups is trash. I know it wasnt the pika boards that came up with it, but its a confused system. The ratios seemed like they were attempting to actually rank matchups, but the numbers are somewhat arbitrarily picked. And to top of off no one know what the actual numbers even mean. How does someone decide if a matchup is 60 or 65, or 61, 62, 63, 64 for that matter? And does this mean pikachu has a 30% chance of winning vs X character, or a 30% chance given the same skill level?
I actually really wish the Brawl Community would find a better method of relating relative strength than tiers. One thing that bothers me about tiers, is that they give the illusion that one character is "better" than the one below it, and vice versa. Not only does this do a terrible job of taking into account match-ups, but my main beef with it is that it doesn't provide any room for two or more characters to be relatively "equal" in strength. I couldn't propose a better system at the moment, but I do know that anything that looks like tiers has a lot of analytical issues with it and I really wish the community could get together and come up with something more efficient and accurate.A better alternative would be to get 5 or 6 of the games top pika players and have them create something similar to a tier list. You might have a hard time finding if Pikachu has a 40 or 35 (whatever that means) fighting MK, but Im sure you could say that he's harder to fight then a snake. Create a list from top to bottom then create "tiers" with strong advantage/disadantage, advantage/disadvantage, and neutral.
I think this is a really good idea. Posting on the other forums is a much more efficient way of getting feed back from the reverse end of things. Assuming no one minds, I think I'll hop on the ZSS forums and the Zelda forums, and start a thread for each - considering those are who we're on right now. Also, I think it would be great in the Match-Up thread, to post both the links to OUR Analysis of the match up AS WELL as links to THEIR analysis of the match-up. This way a pika-player can take a look at both sides of the coin and have a much stronger idea of what to expect.[snip]
I know we tend to go to other character boards and ask them to come here, but it might be better to create a thread on their board and have them discuss how they fight pikas and for us to ask questions so we know what to look for and how to counter, then just link to it from a master thread over here. That way we can be better informed of what to expect and have a better idea of the advantages and disadvantages with their perspective.
This I disagree strongly with. One thing that's so tough about nailing down Smash Bros games, and brawl in particular, is that everything really depends on everything else. There isn't really a great starting point; No matter where we start, we're still going to have to go back and revise as we learn more. I think it's important to be thinking and considering ALL aspects of the game at the same time, not just one small area.From there we can talk about secondaries and which ones might be best. When I say these are all related I dont mean they all tie back to pikachu, I mean that screwing up one screws up the rest down the line. K2 you correctly stated that finding the best secondaries deserves a legit answer and I completely agree, which is why I decided to say something.
Wow, Tag, do we hate each other or what? XDI was hoping you guys wouldnt take this the wrong way and couldve done without the personal attacks, especially to the new people here. I am in no way hating on anyone, the genuine effort by some of the people here has been great. However, I couldve just said job well done and continued to ignore this even if I felt the opposite, Im being critical in order to help improve things. However as requested (and I intended to do) you do deserve something more specific.
First, Pikachus hardest matchups have not been obvious. I wont debate the point here since it was already brought up in the other thread and in my last post.
Second, that 30:70, 50:50, 90: 10 system of rating character matchups is trash. I know it wasnt the pika boards that came up with it, but its a confused system. The ratios seemed like they were attempting to actually rank matchups, but the numbers are somewhat arbitrarily picked. And to top of off no one know what the actual numbers even mean. How does someone decide if a matchup is 60 or 65, or 61, 62, 63, 64 for that matter? And does this mean pikachu has a 30% chance of winning vs X character, or a 30% chance given the same skill level?
A better alternative would be to get 5 or 6 of the games top pika players and have them create something similar to a tier list. You might have a hard time finding if Pikachu has a 40 or 35 (whatever that means) fighting MK, but Im sure you could say that he's harder to fight then a snake. Create a list from top to bottom then create "tiers" with strong advantage/disadantage, advantage/disadvantage, and neutral.
Omg...wow...Third, while the pikachu matchup threads are very helpful, they could use a compliment. Even if playing against different characters requires adjustment and useful tips, for the most part a pikas playstyle is very similar regardless of who they play. Part of the reason its hard to contribute to match-up threads is because repeating the same strategy in each thread seems repetitive and the adjustments to the matchup have already been stated. I know a decent amount about pikas, but what would be really helpful is information from X character on how they fight us since theyll probably have lots to tell us that we dont know. I know we tend to go to other character boards and ask them to come here, but it might be better to create a thread on their board and have them discuss how they fight pikas and for us to ask questions so we know what to look for and how to counter, then just link to it from a master thread over here. That way we can be better informed of what to expect and have a better idea of the advantages and disadvantages with their perspective.
From there we can talk about secondaries and which ones might be best. When I say these are all related I dont mean they all tie back to pikachu, I mean that screwing up one screws up the rest down the line. K2 you correctly stated that finding the best secondaries deserves a legit answer and I completely agree, which is why I decided to say something.