Pika Q&A/FAQ Thread: Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer!

[Angiance]

Really? What about offstage U-Air > Thunder?

 

[1PokeMastr]

Scary as **** because HellDew does it, but thunder alone offstage is the worst option, don't use it.

 

[Angiance]

Well, I didn't suggest it, I asked about it

Thor, an approach you should use is walk in > shield; our powerful OoS play is great, obviously

 

[1PokeMastr]

I think Thor should just spam hammer as an approach.

 

[Angiance]

I think you should give advice and cut the child talk...

 

[1PokeMastr]

Are you suggesting the all mighty Thor to NOT use the Hammer ?

 

[Angiance]

...Noob...

 

[1PokeMastr]

Says the person who can't 3 stock Japan on wifi.

Edit: I did it months before you put that match up on Youtube, maybe close to a year.


What are decent ways to deal with DDD's grab, and securing the kill ?

 

[Angiance]

Dedede's grab? FH T-Jolts, D-Tilt at max range, SH U-Air at max range

KOing Dedede? U-Tilt > Thunder, or F-Throw > Dash N-Air (intending to catch an airdodge with the weaker hit) > Rapid Jab (if he's the edge)/ Jab > U-Smash (if he's not at the edge), or D-Tilt > Run-In > OoS N-Air

That match is an extremely poor example of my capability

http://smashboards.com/data/rankings/563.jpg

 

[1PokeMastr]

Results do not impress me.
Seeing the person play or playing them, is how I decide.

 

[Angiance]

You don't impress me either, but I don't complain *shrugz*

Questions?

 

[Ookami Hajime]

WHOA! Shush, children.
First of all, T2 is NOT a bad option lol
It's an amazing option if they are far off-stage and you use it on someone who is recovering mildly low. T2 will keep you from falling and is very unexpected as well. The main point of it isn't necessarily to make the sweet spot hit or anything, it's just the fact that it stops you vertical momentum just log enough to be threatening at that range.

Walk up shield is my favorite and most efficient approach but if you watch any of my matches, I'll honestly tell you I do it a bit too much. If you keep doing it, you'll both end up shielding in front of each other and the person with common sense will drop shield and grab first. If you're playing someone super agressive, it's great though.

Angiance, my friend, he's being comical. It's funny. Laugh. As exciting as endless posts of frame data and advice is, his thread needs some silly comments in order to keep breathing, haha

 

[Angiance]

His comments are just plain ********

 

[Thor]

Are you suggesting the all mighty Thor to NOT use the Hammer ?

At this point I'm still trying to persuade myself to pick up ICs (never), Dedede (probably never), Game and Watch (...possibly?), or Kirby (maybe). Then I could indeed use the hammer.

T2 offstage is good for stalling or punishing someone who's currently fastfalling from up high, because if they keep falling they'll run into it lower or else hit the T2, if they go high the Thunder is out pretty early to star KO them. I don't think it's a good punish unless nair is super duper stale and they've already used a special move momentum cancel (like Spinning Kong) and done a fastfall so that there is no escape - otherwise they can probably just hit the T1 and DI it.

Angiance, if people fall into off-stage uair -> thunder, they're either playing a character with very terrible recovery (like Link terrible) or they sound kind of lame at this game... they can just double-jump airdodge through that pretty easily... then try to edgeguard you (which is admittedly extremely difficult). Unless you have a video showing why this combo works (that doesn't even sound like it would work in Brawl-... which has higher hitstun than the original Smash 64...).

Also thanks for approach advice, although I'd forgotten I asked again... I guess Walk in -> shield is usually good, but from my experience it's bad versus Kirby at low percents, cuz I eat at least like 17% off a grab, and if I mess up the SDI, it's usually 38% or more.

I'll just reiterate that I keep bringing stuff to Kirby because that's the character the best player I have access to play against uses, and he's beaten me good plenty of times.

the person with common sense will drop shield and grab first.

Just shieldgrab them. I'm pretty sure shield grab is frame 6 or 7 while drop shield -> grab takes like 14 frames because of the seven frames of lag in dropping a shield. Or is this data inaccurate?

 

[1PokeMastr]

No, it's right.

I'm actually not sure what to do against Kirby outside of playing Dk.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Just shieldgrab them. I'm pretty sure shield grab is frame 6 or 7 while drop shield -> grab takes like 14 frames because of the seven frames of lag in dropping a shield. Or is this data inaccurate?

When I said drop shield and grab, I meant shield grab. Nobody typically drops their shield THEN grab. I don't know the data for shield grab/shield drop, my friend. Let's assume you're correct, haha

Pick up ICs so you can be lame like me

 

[Angiance]

Shield-Drop is 7 frames, grab is 6 frames

Thor, U-Air's most powerful use IS controlling where the opponent goes;
U-Air > Thunder isn't a combo, just an attack string, to help net the Thunder

Also, if your Kirby player's skill outshines the actual character, then it's completely different issue wise

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

For wario, RAR uair is good, but impractical since you need to be in a run (not a dash)
SH in/out fair is awesome, d-tilt, up angled f-tilt, and bair (for air to air) are all really good.
Don't rely on Grab release shenanigans since air release isn't guaranteed. If they do air release you get U-smash/nair/footstool.
Don't use T2 offstage unless the opposing character is slow in the air, has a bad up-b, and has no double jump. Not worth otherwise.

For D3...you kinda just have to poke him a lot. T-jolts, lots of juking/movement stuff. QA is really good for this department since you will scare him from moving/bait out a move.
For killing...same options as usual. Don't forget that grabbing him out of up-b will not refresh his jumps so pummeling until release and then waiting for another up-b is pretty busted. Once you decide you want to kill him and he up-bs towards the stage, let it go passed you and SH air dodge through the landing to a slightly charged f-smash. ****'s hype

I try to ignore Angiance but he posts like 1 in 3 posts @_@

 

[Angiance]

Why ignore me? I'm not THAT bad, Mr.Top Pikachu

 

[Thor]

Also, if your Kirby player's skill outshines the actual character, then it's completely different issue wise

Well he's pretty good, but Kirby actually legitimately gets these strings on almost any character (even including MK, and bigger targets have it worse) if they don't SDI out of like the first two hits after the grab or so. Kirby has a reason to get grabs at low percent - the uair is pretty much guaranteed (I have yet to figure out how to DI fthrow to avoid it) and if I don't SDI the uair enough I eat a lot more percent (a reversed utilt and a bair, sometimes an extra bair for even more percent if I really mess up).

I'm actually not sure what to do against Kirby outside of playing Dk.

I don't know how to play DK... I'm considering learning Marth (I also like just playing around with Marth, maybe really putting in effort would help me out for this MU...). And DK's even with Kirby, same as Pikachu, so... do you just feel more confident with better zoning thanks to bair and more weight?

Why ignore me? I'm not THAT bad, Mr.Top Pikachu

But then you post stuff like that without a question or answer...

For a RAR you have to be in the dash, not the initial run animation, right? So I can't RAR in CQC because I'm usually not running, right? That would help some issues I've had with RARing stuff.

Don't forget that grabbing him out of up-b will not refresh his jumps so pummeling until release and then waiting for another up-b is pretty busted

Wait how do we prevent the auto-sweetspot (how do we stop them from up+b to the ledge)??? It seems like he'd just up+b to the ledge... or are you saying grab then pummel, then gimp him after (footstool, nair, something...)? Sorry, this statement just confused me... is there a video of this being employed so I can better see what you mean?

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Well he's pretty good, but Kirby actually legitimately gets these strings on almost any character (even including MK, and bigger targets have it worse) if they don't SDI out of like the first two hits after the grab or so. Kirby has a reason to get grabs at low percent - the uair is pretty much guaranteed (I have yet to figure out how to DI fthrow to avoid it) and if I don't SDI the uair enough I eat a lot more percent (a reversed utilt and a bair, sometimes an extra bair for even more percent if I really mess up)

Well said.

 

[Angiance]

I mean, Kirby has some nasty strings, but so do we: D-Tilt at 0% > trip > Dash Grab > D-Throw > N-Air; 30+% SH D-Air can net us some nasty follow-ups, it can trip as well; U-Air can make the opponent do some REALLY dumb stuff, which opens up many opportunities we shouldn't have, which is why it's a great way to begin an attack string; D-Throw > N-Air > quick check the spacing to see if they're close to edge > Rapid Jab; and then we've got that nifty little Jab > Trip > U-Smash setup, which I consider a frame 2 KO option

The way our attack strings finish, we have an easier time than other characters reading into another attack string; our attack strings condition for other attack strings essentially

You CANNOT RAR out of the initial dash, only out of running

Kirby's Rising Cutter (whatever the hell it's called) can't sweetspot the edge until it's max height, so if your Kirby is at the wrong distance, he will go above the ledge; like Ike's Aether, Kirby's Rising Cutter is pretty vulnerable at it's max height...and grab, no pummel, so as to prevent the recovery of his hops

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You can't DI the f-throw away from the uair, it's similar to our low % f-throw and d-throw where it is undiable knockback. You can SDI the uair up and away though~

You are that bad on the boards, which is why from this point out I'm ignoring your posts. Not gonna put you on ignore list though because I might miss things I would laugh at~

 

[1PokeMastr]

Could just place a well timed thunder with recoveries like that.

I've seen Donkey Kongs Forward Smash Ike/ Kirby out of their Up B's, and Pikachu's thunder invincibility seems interesting.

And Esam, is the reason to not try and Thunder D3 after his Up B begins the descent, due to him dying off the side sooner than off the top ?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I mean I'll thunder him if he is super high up. However, high recovery normally isn't something D3 wants to do because it's mad punishable, so you tend to edgeguard him low. I normally just nair them out if they recover high assuming they aren't in the middle of the stage.

 

[PZ]

Well about the whole kirby gonzo combo stuff, at 0% the fthrow<uair actually whiffs fox/sheik because of their fast fall. Other than that thor, don't worry about anything except getting out of the string with DI and SDI. Although if stage presence is at question then that may be a problem.
I got to be honest, I would feel more comfortable fighting anything as DK regardless of experience or stage than with pikachu. Fear factor/no fear of death so good.

 

[Thor]

I got to be honest, I would feel more comfortable fighting anything as DK regardless of experience or stage than with pikachu. Fear factor/no fear of death so good.

I mean, I find it hard to believe you're more comfortable against MK and King Dedede with DK over Pikachu... or maybe I'm just being obnoxious and don't realize it.

If a combo needs a trip in the middle to work, and it's not a 100% trip rate, it's not really a combo Angiance... and it's called Final Cutter.

ESAM, I do already do that with the uair, but thank you for saying it here anyway (to verify that I was right that there's not an easier way out of it).

Is pivot grabbing the same as a RAR, that is, we can't do the pivot grab in the initial dash frames? If so, that would also explain some of my troubles with pivot grabbing...

Does anyone else ever RAR FH bair? I sometimes do it to this MK who's dair camping is super predictable and I usually get like 10% from it...

 

[1PokeMastr]

You can pivot grab during your initial dash, or else a buffered boost pivot grab would be impossible, which it is not.
Dash Input + Grab input + Opposite direction input, it's similar in regard to b reverses with the specific frame window of the opposite direction input.

As to what PZ said.

Donkey Kong is my best character by far, which is why I'm more comfortable with him vs certain characters, except DDD.
That's just dumb.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

@ Thor : Pivot grab isn't like RAR. It can be performed as soon as the initial dash has begun. You can essentially pivot grab in place (moving like a centimeter).

It's true that you can't rely on d-tilt for guaranteed follow ups with trips having percentage rate, but I think Bell is just stating a possible string of follow ups. If he think it's 100%, which I'm sure he doesn't, then he's incorrect.

I never really throw out b-air. It just doesn't work for me; it's like that one move who's purpose for me is yet to be determined. For me, there's just always a prefferred option. I know this has probably been asked before, but if anyone could tell me any other efficient, legitimate uses for b-air other than improvisation or panic aerials, please let me know because a move that cute has to be useful. A distraction in doubles possibly?

 

[Thor]

if anyone could tell me any other efficient, legitimate uses for b-air other than improvisation or panic aerials, please let me know because a move that cute has to be useful. A distraction in doubles possibly?

I'm pretty sure it's a reliable way to mess with Diddy Kong's recovery (like Luigi's down+b). I think it also intercepts Falco's side+b quite nicely, and I think the fact that the duration is longer than fair makes it ideal for these tasks.

More advice on this from others would be appreciated by me as well, but these are uses for it I think work quite well.

 

[Angiance]

ESAM, shut up

Attack string would mean it's not 100% likely to connect, but still useful nonetheless, y'know, like D-Throw > F-Smash at KO percent

FH B-Air is really good for platform pressure, although I recommend SH U-Air/D-Air

AH B-Air is good for getting back onstage, as long as pikas tail is towards it of course, but I recommend never attacking your way back onstage

FH B-Air is actually really-really good now that I think about it, given it's long range, quick speed, 8 hitboxes and recovery. The opponent will feel more constricted in the air with correct FH B-Air use

 

[M15t3R E]

I'm pretty sure it's a reliable way to mess with Diddy Kong's recovery (like Luigi's down+b). I think it also intercepts Falco's side+b quite nicely, and I think the fact that the duration is longer than fair makes it ideal for these tasks.

More advice on this from others would be appreciated by me as well, but these are uses for it I think work quite well.

There's not much more to say about bair. It's one of Pikachu's least useful moves. Use it as a mix up sparingly.
If anyone can think of a situation in which SH bair is useful I'm all ears. Against recoveries maybe, but I know there are plenty of better options.

 

[PZ]

@ Thor Yea DK vs D3 is just the most unfair mu I can possibly think of aside from kirby vs falcon and samus where your moveset means nothing (the crouch is too stronk). DK vs MK is more comfortable for the sheer fact that outside of gimps he can not kill you.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

@ Angiance : Down throw to f-smash isn't a string. That's a just a reliable kill set up that you have to make a read for. F-throw to u-smash, u-air to u-air, u-air to n-air; these are examples of strings.

@ Thor : Maybe, but f-air or u-air does as good a job gimping Diddy's recovery. F-air also interruptions Falco's side-b. In these aspects, f-air does the same thing so it makes b-air look severely outclassed because it's lack of other uses. It could be a great move for seperating aerial climbers, I guess. I'll experiment more with this move today.

@ Angiance : With the way you're saying it, besides the unique recovery option, b-air always has a parallel, safer, bettter option. You seem to have success with the move though, so I'd like to make use of it in some way.

 

[PZ]

String: possible combination of moves depending on opponent's DI
Combo: 100% legit combination of moves
Setups: combination of moves that involve reads
So the "strings" you listed are legit combos for pika. No one if gonna be able to avoid uair to nair or another uair at low-mid percents while at high percents its more of a string since they can airdodge or DI far away enough to avoid the next hit. Fthrow<usmash is legit at low percents but not at 0 for marth.

 

[Thor]

There's not much more to say about bair. It's one of Pikachu's least useful moves. Use it as a mix up sparingly.
If anyone can think of a situation in which SH bair is useful I'm all ears. Against recoveries maybe, but I know there are plenty of better options.

Are you saying I got the main uses down (Diddy/Falco gimps), or that these aren't good uses of it either? I know bair lasts longer so it's easier than fair in some ways for these things, although fair can do these with good timing. Also I'd need to check data on shield stuff, but since bair hits 8 times and fair only hits like 5, it might be a better move if their shield is way worn down for a shield stab? That said, the pitful knockback means one is probably punished for doing that... they'd need to be high percent for this to matter, and probably near the edge for it to actually give anything more than like 6%.

Yea DK vs D3 is just the most unfair mu I can possibly think of aside from kirby vs falcon and samus where your moveset means nothing (the crouch is too stronk). DK vs MK is more comfortable for the sheer fact that outside of gimps he can not kill you.

Incidentally, people are always like "DK can't be KO'd" but that's at least in part because people stale moves too early... here's a video showing a properly played Falco has no problems KOing DK... (just the first match)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSCYC8TW9a4

If MK's just didn't go for KO moves until like 170% (excluding nair I guess, maybe Shuttle Loop), then KO problems would go away because fresh dsmash will at least leave DK very high up, in prime position for an up-air off the top... but MKs don't usually look to raise percentages that high when they die around half that, so... DK can do work.

But I do see your point, and it's also another good reminder to me to not try to KO DK before 140% (that's assuming fresh upsmash to Thunder - wait even longer for nair, utilt->thunder, fsmash or regular usmash).

And yeah, D3 vs DK is really really dumb.

 

[infiniteV115]

How do I QUACK-cancel these ducks outside my house are being really loud and I wanna shut them up

 

[Angiance]

I mean, it's a string because you do it in a set order, setup is the other word for string

I'll just start calling it an action string from now on, since "trip" isn't really an attack, and "dash" isn't an attack either

Infinite, are you bad with Pikachu?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

In initial dash there are two types of pivot grabs. Assuming you are passed the dashdance point if you press back and then Z you will do a pivot grab where you aren't moving anymore. If you press z and then back you will do the sliding pivot grab.


Angiance: Please stop referring to me in any of your posts from now on. I would REALLY like to be able to help the community of Pikachus other than you. YOu are pretty much worthless on this thread and you give out ****ty information backed with nothing. Please stop talking to me and I will GLADLY do the same since I dislike you with great intensity. Stop thinking you know so mcuh when you CLEARLY don't. There is a reason the other top Pikachus don't post and it's because of idiots like you.

 

[Angiance]

buzz off, ESAM...

Questions?