Very sorry for another large post but all my points are here so get reading =p
_
1Mentos that's EXACTLY it - the contradiction is that you were very unhelpful D1... a cop did die N1 - and then you come out with your role claim.
As you put it yourself... you were the most unhelpful you've ever been - there's a great motive there to counter that by claiming a town PR who could have proven useful.
Let me just say - there should be no notion that mafia play is fixed, anyone has the potential to mould their play depending on the current circumstances - I'm saying one wouldn't need to rely hitting specifically a cop N1... it could have been any town PR... a vanilla townie etc... it's scum's priority to capitalise on a good situation and luckily killing the town cop was a good situation you could have possibly capitalised on with your claim. See where I'm getting at?
That and your 'unhelpfulness' would have restored the faith needed for you to survive in this game, and it's working.
2Now... the fact is... you were vocal about your role D2 was it? Why didn't you ensure your flavour as a cop first by keeping quiet? Being vocal as a cop (an uncertain at one) would have placed you as a prime target for Night Kills by scum - why would scum afford to let you know what flavour you were? What if you proved to be useful as a town PR? (which never happened btw...). This is why I'm a tad bit suspicious of you claiming your role early.
This is what I mean when I say setting up - you can retaliate and say, well yes Mafia knows I'm a cop now so they'd keep me alive during the Night to... set me up as not being who I am. But why would this occur when the threat of you finding something bigger is much larger?
3Also I believe Kevin mentioned protecting himself and Marshy purposefully over the Nights - this meant you were a claimed potential town PR who was vulnerable in the Night yet didn't die and you could have found out something dangerous to scum - no offence but that in itself is quite suspicious to me - it just doesn't look good to me mentos.
4Yet again... claiming to be a cop without any certainty, in an extreme sense, practically made you immune to Day lynches because players were keen to discover if you could have been useful. That's you alive for an extra few Days based on how unhelpful you were earlier.
5I just find it the perfect claim to make. Damon Gant was chief of police btw... why he would be a 'secondary' cop so to speak is beyond me but you've established that making a case from flavour is dangerous.
NOTE: I really don't like these:
6I think you're in a hurry to get this Day ended.
7I don't like how you called out to Marshy only (despite Pierre being one of the most confirmed townies) as if Marshy will quickly say something and everyone suddenly sheeps it so you can potentially nail someone dead. Especially when only 3 players are needed to kill someone this time. I think that was just ill-intent.
8I really don't like how you've called out to the late Kev and said just because he's town it sort of blesses your thoughts as definite town-thinking (would this classify as WIFOM then?). Oh and let's not forget, he was also suspicious of you.
9I don't like how you want to make it 'official' when a) you're case against me yesterDay was what? b) the current circumstances now are very cloudy - you had something against Cacti yet you seem to have completely dropped it now, and c) it seems drastically different from the calm/collected and reasonable mentos we're used to. I'm sensing pressure.
Mentos, outline this:
Q1- what exactly was your case against me yesterDay? Something concrete would be nice!
Q2- why haven't you considered that Kevin was talking about his suspects as being one or the other? NOTE: there was a lot of talk at how the lynch flip yesterDay could be useful. So:
Q3- What does Gheb's flip tell you? And:
Q4- If Gheb's flips is conclusive that I am scum then you can now respond to what I wrote to Pierre about Gheb in this post. Thanks!
Numbers added for easy reference to which point I am referring to.
1. Your point is instantly made moot, because I didn't just "come out" with my cop claim. I got a guilty on Kevin, and pushed a lynch on him using nothing but my analysis of his posts. While it may have been somewhat swayed by looking to push his case, the only thing I did on D2 was push a lynch of a potential scum, with the help of several other townies who believed so as well, to see if my sanity would flip. While I did breadcrumb numerous times on D2, I didn't ever claim till D3.
The next part of this point about it being a way to counter the unhelpfulness by claiming a PR, I'm not sure how that makes sense. First of all, I completely ignored commenting on the game for pretty much 3/4s of the first day(I know you weren't involved, but I hope you would have realized my direct avoidance of comment on anything more than mechanically related for a long period), which is an extreme version of a relatively common play of town PR's to allow themselves to look suspicious to dodge the night kill: especially when they're a well known player and a potential N1 target. When it got too far and people were starting to think of me in a potential lynch light, I turned it around and really started being helpful and putting my thoughts out there. I didn't avoid a lynch by claiming a PR, I did it by playing townie.
Your third portion of this relies once again on me claiming D2 and getting out of a lynch. D1 there were only maybe 3 people who were ready and willing to lynch me, a couple other lesser suspicions spread out which is why I made a concerted effort to turn it around. By the end of D2(prior to my claim mind you) the two major people who suspected me(Macman and Marshy) were no longer voicing me as a major suspicion any more. My play turnaround is what saved me, not my claim(although I am sure that helped on D3 lower the suspicions even more, it was NOT the reason I avoided being lynched). This whole point is based on the assumption that I claimed D2, and with the fact that that is not the case, the argument falls to pieces, and it looks a lot more like you tried to bend things to your argument instead of using the facts.
2. Your second point once again bases itself on my claim being D2, which is false, and quite clearly laid out in my previous post you just responded to. Get your facts straight before making arguments involving them. Fact of the matter is, I DID try to figure out my potential sanity before claiming: When I pushed the lynch on Kevin without ever claiming cop. I returned a guilty, and not knowing the character but only the basic info given in my PM, I felt I was a good candidate for sane cop and Omni was some other sanity. At the end of the day, the lynch was pushed, but stopped upon my waiting to see if I was sane or not by Cacti. This ended up accomplishing the same thing essentially however, with Kevin being Un CC'd doc it was clear I wasn't sane, and naive was already ruled out. At this point I was almost positive, as I stated in my claim, that I was insane or paranoid.
Now, as for the framing part, why does it even HAVE to be framing for me to be town and not nightkilled. There are so many other explanations it's not even funny. I'm not going to go into them all, but suffice to say that leaving me alive N3 on purpose would be a pretty strong scum move in several possible outcomes.
3. First of all, scum doesn't know if Kevin is telling the truth or not. I've seen doctor's say they're going to protect one person, go with another and block a kill that scum thought was safe. People's words don't always translate to their actions. Secondly, you are back on the "not dying means framed or fake!" that you had in the last point, which is just flat out wrong. Also, I've been on the scum side of facing a claimed, and known doctor. Twice. It isn't a simple "they said/hinted they were going to protect X, so any other player must be a safe kill" situation, it is very hard to trust claimed doc actions as scum, so it would have been a risk to go after me, with Kevin specifically leaving me as potential target.
4. And now you pretty much restate what you said in the first point in slightly different words. So I'll say again: I did have about a 50/50 certainty when I claimed, and avoided the lynch because I proved I was useful regardless of my role, not because I was a claimed cop with another dead.
5. Actually, since you seem to know quite a bit about the game, I'm not sure why you would see him as a sane cop. I haven't played the game, but by reading the story associated with the character, I would say flavor points quite directly at Gant being a paranoid cop. There is a reason he's no longer chief of police after all. Also, if we're using character flavor in this point, if you look at Omni's character's history, he fits the role of sane cop pretty well. I think it's pretty clear that Gant would be a cop, and to respond to your flavor comment, the only way it makes sense for him to be a sane cop is if you disregard his entire story of why he is the
EX chief of police.
6. I'm in a hurry to end the day? My first vote in the entire day came a few days into the day when it had already been made quite clear who I planned on voting.
7. Why have you never called Marshy out for asking someone who the play is? Fact of the matter is, I trust Marshy's scumdar very strongly, and with him as one of the two most confirmed townies, and was active enough I could see his opinion and compare it to my own quickly.
8. Did I say it made my thoughts "definite town thinking"? No, I didn't. I just said that Kev's thoughts lining up with my own made
ME more confident in my reads. Kev is one of the other players in this game that, when town, I put a lot of faith into. To see him listing you as one of his top two suspicions yesterday encouraged, once again,
ME that I wasn't letting some disagreements with your methods and flavor affect me too much. Don't make me sound like I was saying I was obv. town just because Kev agreed. Oh, and while Kevin did suspect me a bit at points, at the end of the day he was in the same line of thought as me and Marshy: that there were two scum between you, Cacti, and Gheb.
9. I've been mentioning suspicion of you/Riddle for a few days now. I see no reason to restate it all, especially considering you claim to have just re-read paying special attention to my posts, you should already know what I've said, and what other cases on you said, off hand. If you are not just skimming, there is no reason for me to restate the case on you.
How is it cloudy, I've already mentioned that your fashioning a post solely on flavor tipped the scales in your flavor. Also, Cacti was gone/V/LA, so why would I not focus on someone actually actively responding?
It seems... What? How is different than I normally play? Because I made a vote? Am I suspicious when I vote now or what? It was clear at that point that I would be voting you, I had stated my suspicion of you for multiple days, and there was no reason to beat around the bush by pushing you and not voting.
Q1: You already asked this question in point 9, and I responded as such my thoughts on the matter. To reiterate, there have been several people suspicious of you, some of which are confirmed town now, and there have been several legitimate points brought up against you. If you've really re-read the game lately, you know the cases already. Beyond that, I've made a new one against you today: One that you have completely ignored and instead simply continued attacking me.
Q2: Does it matter? In fact, if you look at Kevin's talk yesterday, he said you were the more suspicious of the two to him, and that he was fine with either lynch. Honestly it doesn't matter if he meant it that way, the only reason I brought Kevin up was that he reinforced to me that suspicion on you wasn't misled(at least not entirely), not that "he said he's suspicious so Kata must be scum!"
Q3: Gheb's flip tells me simply that Gheb is scum. While I do see disconnection from you two, it is not that much in your favor because Gheb plays very aggressive when town, and I could see him being just as aggressive in an attempt to disconnect himself from a scum partner. Also, if you notice, Gheb was very strongly pushing Pierre's lynch yesterday, not yours. In fact, the argument between you two seemed to both become secondary and slow down a lot after people said they didn't see you/Gheb as a scum pairing.
Q4: It's not conclusive that you are scum, so question is unanswerable because the premise is not the case.
Cacti, I got ninja'd by you, but I'm going to have to respond to your post tomorrow. I've got work in about 6.5 hours and need to get to sleep soon, so I won't have time tonight to make a well thought out response. One thing I do have to ask: After reading through this post, do you really think Kata had some "good points" after I've pointed out major flaws with several of them?
I may also put up some more direct points against Kata tomorrow, although I have already mentioned a few including:
1. Changing the day of my claim in majority of his cases
2. Twisting my words about when I mentioned Kev's suspicions to his own means
3. Disregards the fact that my PR claim wasn't the reason I wasn't lynched.
And the one response to Cacti I want to get up right away: You call me out for not voting Rockin, yet the same applies to Kata. In fact, he was completely absent during the whole period leading up to the Rockin lynch. I was absent for the less than 45 minutes between Rockin's claim and Marshy's hammer. Not to mention, that my vote on Macman was A. when the lynch was clearly going Rockin, B. Made to pressure him to get his thoughts on scum that didn't include Kevin. If you notice, I stopped voting him when I understood his answer to that, and that was clearly the point of my attack on him, to pressure into looking into something that didn't involve Kevin, in part because I found him somewhat scummy, and in part because if he died, since I trusted Kevin, it would let me see his opinion on others, and I like townie-Mac's opinions^.^
that part is a joke if you don't noticeXD Welcome to the world of voting your suspicions that I entered yesterday.