Perfect Control - AR video - FINISHED!!

[Oro]

I'm still interested in this, I'll probably have the time to do it the week after this coming one; it'll be Spring Break. I've been idly thinking of things that would look cool. Crazy Samus dance? What do you have in mind for that?

 

[Mew2King]

here's a good one for someone with AR

one one ledge...

with Fox...

do Marth's Uair over and over (grab ledge, uair, grab ledge, uair, etc)

and do Fox's uair over and over, as well as Fox's ledge jump 1 Blaster shot (which is a bit easier than Fox's uair from a ledge)

now THAT would be impressive.



................OR..................MAKE WORLD RECORDS IN BTT OR HRC, for example, the WR for HRC with Fox is flawed, as another DSHL could EASILY fit in there instead of ending with a full jump back and then landing and bat smashing. You could made a WR with AR!



I'd also like to see how fast Luigi and the others can potentially go with perfect long wavedashes, or how high he can go with up B (if you can go higher than Thunders or 1/4 speed on training mode that is, or do something fancy with that I guess)

Another good thing is testing max speed of Fox trotting, Fox wavedashing, and a mix of Fox trotting and Fox wavedashing to see just how fast Fox can travel on land if used PERFECTLY. I have always wondered that. You should infinite shine or shine+jump+shine+jump etc. someone in a wall and see how fast you can rack up damage.

Also, try Dash Nair + Shine + Dash Nair + Shine...etc., into something else cool like maybe infinite shine or something really hard to do, yet useful in a real match and cool to watch as well.

Also try to do all that cool Fox stuff that Isai and MOFO do (mainly combinations of Dash Dashing and Wavedashing in really cool, fast, and confusing ways)

Also I'd like to know/see the max speed of constant SH fast-fall single lasers is possible with Fox (since Fox is my main character for tourneys)

Also, mad cool stuff with Samus's Super Wavedash, like doing Adventure Mode's Race to the Finish or F-Zero stage on it, or Lethal Marathon in Event Mode, or some crazy Super Wavedash stuff like that would be awesome.

Stuff like that and mainly what I just named, would be awesome to see done perfectly.

 

[Dan-E]

A few suggestions...

1. If you can, crop out all those numbers at the top of the screen that flash around. They get distracting, and take away from the awesomeness that is this video.

2. At the beggining of the video you mention that you use frame by frame editing and all that to do the tricks in the video. I think it would just be a lot cooler if you didn't mention that, and just said something like... "you wish you were this good", and then started the video. Knowing that super slow motion was used to achieve those videos kind of detracts from the presentation of the thing IMHO.

3. I second the notion for BTT and HRC WR vids. You might have to go to gamefaqs and ask around for some strategies though since a lot of strategies have been put forth that are thought possible that noone has been able to achieve (i.e. sub 7.28 NTSC Fox, and 10 bds with CFalcon(I believe there is already a video of the Cfalcon though run that was achieved in the same way you are doing your tricks)) and such, that aren't used in the current WR videos. Just the ones that noone has achieved would be cool, cause seeing a faster BTT run by 'x' amount of frames isn't going to be as impressive as the stuff that you're planning for your vid.

4. I know it was just a trailer, but in final product better synching to the music (Fox on Peach's castle) would be cool. (not trying to bash on your vid at all, just saying it would be better if the timing was more accurate).

And now a question...

Is editing the videos really as simple as taking out every other frame?? Or is there something I'm missing that makes it seem more difficult than it sounds?? Cause that sounds easy... just tedious. Props to you for doing this though.

Edit-sorry for all the punctuation/spelling/grammar errors. it's late over here, and i suck at english in general.

 

[Doraki]

I've started working on the NTSC sub 7.28 Fox with AR.. it's hard to max out everything when you have different strats ^^

 

[W.J]

If its possible i was thinkin if u could somehow get something like fox upair shine wd combo, also have things to do with catching items with z, such as falling from a high distance and you letgo of the item and catch it in the air repeatedly, some shield ledge dropping would also look nice, and very fast shield wavedashing

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Oro - Like...4 Samii jumping and missiling and SWD'ing in some pattern without hitting each other. For instance, maybe SWD across the stage, then SHFFMC'ing back, only with 4 Samii doing it cyclically. I'm not a heavy Samus player so I don't know what could work.

Mew2King - Some of that stuff isn't totally awesome enough. Namely the stuff that Isai and MoFo do. I mean, they already do it, why should I? Same with the wavedashing/fox trotting. Isai could probably do it close enough to perfect as to make TRUE perfection unimpressive. After seeing Isai vs Germ 1, I'm thinking of taking out the Fox shffl'ing, because it really isn't any more impressive than what Isai does in real life.

That's also my view for WR's. For someone that isn't uber pro, the existing WR's are already mind-blowing enough, and doing it a few frames faster might not even be noticable. The rest is worth looking into, though, especially the Fox ledge blaster...but why have 1 Fox when you could have 4?

Dan-E

1. I don't know how, and I don't think it takes away as much as if that part of the screen were missing, especially with the stuff involving 4 characters.

2. Should it go at the end? I want to include it, for several reasons
A) People know that this stuff CANNOT be done any faster, or else can't be done at all (4x Fox ledge Blastering)
B) People don't ask me how I did it
C) It builds suspence nicely (IMO)

3. I'd only include them in this video if they're significantly cooler than the existing WRs. I'm disinclined to include ANY, as I think they would be better recieved as part of a seperate video tailored to people who are specifically interested.

4. The whole thing is going to be rearranged, so I think this won't be a problem in the final version.

And now an answer...

Yes, it is just that easy. I had a lot of trouble editing Omni's SDWD because he pressed Z so freaking fast that the frames blended together, and I couldn't seperate them. I had to assign "keyframes" and choose which frames to keep in and which to delete to closest match real time.

But if every frame is accounted for, the hardest part is around the edges of when I pause it, because the first frame of it being paused might be 1 frame ahead of the previous frame, which is a no-no. The rest is indeed just tedious. Sometimes recording the stuff with 4 characters can be tough, but editing is not any harder for it.

The stuff I had in mind before was enough to last the whole song. If more is added, I'll need either a longer song, or another one to come after. Another song would mean that much more time to fill. Bah, that's a problem for when the footage is all ready.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I'd like to propose something for the vid, it's a technique that I invented (I would really appreciate my discovery not to be stolen) for Peach.
I call it the DJL Z drop turnip.
Basically this is what you do:
pull a turnip, DJL, but on the frame that you jump to land back on the ground, z drop the turnip. This technique will appear like Peach's normal DJL except she will drop a held turnip.
What does this mean? Well if Peach shields an attack, she can DJL z drop and grab the opponent (grabbing while holding a turnip!), and she can even down throw the opponent into the turnip you just dropped. It is also technically the fastest way to pull and dispose of turnips (as opposed to pulling a turnip and throwing down).

What I am suggesting for your vid should be extremely impressive.
Have peach pull a bob omb on the left side of FD then constantly DJL Z drop and Z catch the bob omb, while moving across the stage in DJLs.

Let me know if you need some clarification with that.

Also it may be possible to shield grab someone and down throw them into a bob omb, i can't remember if i've done it before or not. But I can do it with normal turnips.

Some other suggestions, I still think you should have peach parasol comboing fox, if it doesn't look good enough don't worry about it. Also perhaps fire something like a laser between 2 people who constantly powershield it back and forth? Or show a short 1 stock match where one opponent is attacking like mad with say fox and the other just stands back and powershields every hit, also trying not to let the shield appear so it looks even more perfect.

 

[The Cape]

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl
Some other suggestions, I still think you should have peach parasol comboing fox, if it doesn't look good enough don't worry about it. Also perhaps fire something like a laser between 2 people who constantly powershield it back and forth? Or show a short 1 stock match where one opponent is attacking like mad with say fox and the other just stands back and powershields every hit, also trying not to let the shield appear so it looks even more perfect.

I think this idea what brought up. The perfect match, done through AR. Would be cool to drop on the hub and have people think that SDM and Oro are GODS at Melee.

 

[Yeroc]

[color=0080ff]Quez, Mike G discovered that trick on his own too (and after I saw him do it I figured out the button combination in fairly short order). You'd have to talk to him as to who found it first. He uses it for a different purpose than that tho, and I'm sworn to secrecy as to what it is =/.[/color]

 

[Mew2King]

Cape, for the most part anyway, people aren't stupid >_>; nobody will fall for that unless they are a noob. Besides, SDM and Oro already have vids on the hub. They definitely aren't bad at all but aren't all that great (in my eyes at least, yet, I play all the time literally even if it is by myself mostly so nothing except a few things MOFO and Wes does impresses me). I'm not really gonna judge people STRICTLY on vids though, unless I play them in person. But ANYWAY, back to the point, people won't fall for something like that and even if they could, if it takes a minute a frame for this stuff......that'd take forever, even for a 1 minute match that's 60 hours at LEAST.

 

[The Cape]

Originally posted by Mew2King
Cape, for the most part anyway, people aren't stupid >_>; nobody will fall for that unless they are a noob. Besides, SDM and Oro already have vids on the hub. They aren't bad but aren't all that great (in my eyes at least, yet, I play all the time literally even if it is by myself mostly so nothing except a few things MOFO and Wes does impresses me). I'm not really gonna judge people STRICTLY on vids though, unless I play them in person.

I just meant to scare noobs. Thats is what it would be really funny for.

 

[Dan-E]

1. What editing program are you using?? If you're using premiere, then you can simple use the 'crop' function, which allows you to basically stretch the video so you don't get that annoying black bar of nothingness (you don't lose any noticeable amount of resolution either. that tool is used widely in AMVs to remove subtitles). ummm, that's kind of confusing. let me reword it. the crop function in premiere allows you to stretch the top/right/bottom/left/whichever side of the video you want, so that it fits the screen. that's not much different than i what i said before, but oh well...

2. In the long run, this isn't THAT important, and just could be something to think about if you have some time, but the part about including/not including telling people that AR was used in the vid, maybe you could figure out a way to work in the suspense/awe inspiringness without telling people that you used AR. Just off the top of my head something like... "The things you are about to see... are perfect... " well.. i don't know, but i really liked the way you build it up (the suspense) with the "even the best players are limited by how fast their fingers move...".

The best thing to do, would be to finish the video, and then test out a couple of different ways to do it (the text). Test it out on a few friends, and have them give you some feedback on which version of the text was more impressive/suspenseful.

3. Didn't really think that one through... You're right. Sub 7.28 Fox would be cool, but as you said it would probably be better received as a separate video.

4. Sweet.

Another question(s)...

You're recording this frame by frame right?? How slow is the actual video??? Like could you give me a percentage speed on how slow it is compared to the original?? Cause if you're having to remove every other frame, that would make it two times slower right or fifty percent speed right? Wouldn't it be possible to just put the clip at two hundred percent speed and then play it back so that it looks like it's playing in real time? If not, why?

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Originally posted by Yeroc
[color=0080ff]Quez, Mike G discovered that trick on his own too (and after I saw him do it I figured out the button combination in fairly short order). You'd have to talk to him as to who found it first. He uses it for a different purpose than that tho, and I'm sworn to secrecy as to what it is =/.[/color]

I discussed it with Mike G when i found out about the trick, he never mentioned about already knowing how to do it, (if i remember, he wasn't aware of it) but developed his own stuff shortly after. There are other purposes I am aware of, but the ones i mentioned are the easiest to do and also the most useful, that is, unless I have overlooked something. I will talk to Mike G about it though =)

 

[Rukazor]

I just want to throw out my opinion and say that what you guys are doing here is pretty l33t... keep it up. :D

I wish I could give you guys some ideas, but all the ones I had were already taken (mainly stuff with Samus' Super WD).

Regardless, bravo!

 

[The Cape]

SDM, what about DDing to edgehog?

You can do a DD and wind up edgehogging if you time it right, thats something that would be cool for this vid.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Here's an updated list of things I have clips for that need to be edited to real time:

Raptor Boost cancels
dashing SHFFMC
swd-crazy on adventure Bowser

Flare Blade evasion
-Falco
-Peach
-Dr. Mario

I can give these to people over AIM if anyone wants to help speed this up.


Here are ideas for things that need to be captured (or ruled out):

Crazy Samus dance
perfect parasol combo
perfect wavedashing vs Falcon run
Fox speed trix vs Falcon run
uberfast shine vs walled opponent
fox fastest SHB
SWD fzero race
fox edge laser x4
Ganon edge u-air x4
jiggs edge sing x4
Mario edge fireball x4
Falcon ledge/wall jump x4
Q-drop bomb across level
Q-drop veggie to grab
DD to edgegrab

perfect powershielding
-projectile battle

Dan-E yes, I think I'll have tests of the "finished" product with some people, to make sure it doesn't have any gaping flaws.

The frame rate isn't constant, so it can't be simply sped up. Depending on what is going on, the frame rate ranges from 2 frames per second to 1 frame every 3 seconds or more. If I tried to press Z (to advance 1 frame) at a regular pace, I'd be much more likely to make a mistake and have to start over.

To encourage people to help in editing, I'll provide a brief description of how to change the raw footage to real time.

PHASE 1 : isolating the frames

Pretty straightforward. Use the Next Frame button to go until you see it's a new frame, then isolate 1 frame of that frame. Be sure all frames are accounted for, and make use of the frame number display to check.

PHASE 2 : consolidating the frames

If your program doesn't allow empty space on the timeline, then the frames are probably already grouped at the beginning. What I do is select the very last frame and drag it to the next to last frame, then select the both and drag them to the next to next to last frame, and so on, until the group gets too big to easily select or move. Then I leave it and start a new group. When all there is is groups, I move them to the beginning, starting with ones closest to the beginning. Until you get the hang of this, make sure the frames are in order

PHASE 3 : deleting every other frame

Before you do this, you MUST make sure you haven't missed any. Careful execution of Phase 1 ensures you won't miss any frames.

PHASE 4 : consolidating the frames...again

If your program doesn't allow empty space on the timeline, then the frames are probably already grouped at the beginning...again. If you can have empty space...just make sure they stay in order. Now you can produce the finished video. Make it high quality, so hopefully not too much is lost over all the incarnations each clip goes through.

 

[TelpeFion]

How about powershielding every laser of a laser spamming Fox? Or is that even possible? PSing every laser of a Fox SHDLing would be very cool as well.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

PS battles are cool but i think people have done them with their friends (i know i can get you that footage without AR) but most projectiles dissaper after 4-5 PS's and items tend to get PSed at a shorter distance they were thrown. you will find that you will have to crouch to PS an item when it gets too low.

 

[vidjogamer]

dang, everyone steals my peach tricks!!!!!!

 

[Lu']

yeah I want to get in

this is already boring...

 

[Lu']

huffing gas

I love CORY very much and would never do anything to anger him.

cory: awww, thanks.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Nice idea, TelpeFion. Turns out Peach can do it, but only because DJL is so much faster than releasing the shield.

Quetz, I did the repeating PS'ing against a falco blitz, and it looks cool. I can send it to you over AIM sometime.

 

[Varuna]

Just got this idea... don't know if any body has already thought of it yet but..



Have two foxs one on each side of FD have them both start shdl but not quite at the same time in order to make it to where when the second fox hits the ground the upper laser of the first fox will skim over his head and at the same time time the laser released from the second fox will be jumped over by the first fox... do you get what I am saying. there is probly distance for this to work or a certain timing but i dont think that you could have the foxes move from their position while doing this, maybe you could i don't know im just throwin it out there. interesting concept no?

even if that specif thing could not be done maybe you could make it to whereonly one laser is dodged as they shdl... or maybe they could shine the laser as they approach each other but i think somone already said somin similar to that.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Not a bad idea, Varuna, but I already thought of it. I apologize for not leaving a list of used/discarded ideas, but I want people to be surprised as much as possible. Kudos for throwing out ideas, though. Your second one shows promise...

A bad idea that gets discussed is more useful than a good one that doesn't.

Once again, here is the list of ideas that need to be recorded or ruled out:

Crazy Samus dance
perfect parasol combo
perfect wavedashing vs Falcon run
Fox speed trix vs Falcon run
uberfast shine vs walled opponent
fox fastest SHB
Blaster battle w/ reflection (powershield??)
SWD fzero race
Q-drop bomb across level
Q-drop veggie to grab
DD to edgegrab
Mario fancy FoD recovery
Dr. upB cancel x4

ledge jumping
-fox edge laser x4
-Ganon edge u-air x4
-jiggs edge sing x4
-Mario edge fireball x4
-Falcon ledge/wall jump x4

perfect powershielding
-projectile battle
-Luigi fends off 2 charge shots

And here are clips I have recorded, but not yet edited to real time.

Raptor Boost cancels
dashing SHFFMC
swd-crazy on adventure Bowser

Flare Blade evasion
-Falco
-Peach
-Dr. Mario

You may notice that the list of things to do is getting longer instead of shorter. Perhaps I wasn't clear when I mentioned people helping. I don't want to do this all myself. Not only will it take freaking forever, I will more than likely give up. I've worked like hell on what I have so far, but the clips I have are no more than half of the clips I'll need, maybe not even a third.

Here are the kinds of help I want, in chronological order of clip construction:

EXPERIMENTING
requires: AR (or not)

Some of the above ideas aren't really fleshed out. Testing the ideas is useful for determining if the idea is good enough/possible, or how exactly it CAN work. For example, if Samus SWD's down the F-Zero track, is it faster to SWD often, or wait and slide a bit in between? What can Fox do to move as fast as possible?

RECORDING
requires: AR, decent quality recording method, means to share file

I don't have 4 controllers, so I can't do any of the x4 stuff. There also is a ton of stuff to record.

EDITING
requires: video editing software than can work at 30 fps, means to share file

The editing is the boringest most time consuming part. It's not hard, once you get the hang of it, but about 70% of the time spent on any given clip is spent on editing.

CRITIQUING
requires: means to share file (or not)

Example: Tipman. The time is not yet ripe for critiquing of the final video, but when (if) the clips all get done, I will be sharing it with a few people so there's all kinds of outside opinions going on. I have a pretty good idea who they'll be, but that day is a long way off, so I don't wanna name names yet. There is a possibility that some clips will need to be done again better.

In conclusion, this video is FAR from finished.

EDIT: my Dazzle stopped working AGAIN. I can't capture until further notice.

 

[rmusgrave]

I have a couple of ideas you might want to try...

Yoshi's edge cancelled eggs are rather cool to watch, but if you could get 2 or even 4 people doing it off the same edge... 0_o

Also, Yoshi can DJL similar to how Peach can, and since Yoshi is somewhat invulnerable during his double jump, he can actually DJL through someone's attack.

During Yoshi's shielding animation, Quetzalcoatl told me that Yoshi is invulnerable. He can also jump out of this animation without any shield lag whatsoever. So I figured you could do this, then DJL and retaliate.

Yoshi even has an amazing light shield, if you want to put that in. Have him light shield the max amount, then bounce him between C.Falcon knees or some other powerful but quick attack.

Then there's Q-dropping. I've heard its possible to DJL, Z drop a bob-omb or the like, and then catch it again. It'd look cool if it was done across FD.

That's all I can think of for now, but I think one or two of them would look pretty cool.

 

[DoH]

How about showing how Zelda can use the invinbility frames of Farore's Wind and ledges to be completely invincible? Have her avoiding attacks on the ledge like Peach's down smash, spikes, ect.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

ummm you guys realize that this is gonna be a vid based on difficult moves that need tight frame timing? infinite edge hog by zelda or and RDJC down B down by yoshi isnt so tight on timing or remarkable on that note. the vid should put you in shock while watching it with amazing tricks not make you wanna vomit....sorry if it sound like im flaming you 2 but im tired...so yeah...those suggestion are good but can be done by someone rather easily.

now the egg throwin yoshis could be interesting....i gotta gets some sleep.

 

[rmusgrave]

They're only suggestions. If SDM decides to reject them, then I'm no worse off than I was before I posted them. Still, I'd like to see you Q-drop bobombs all the way across FD easily lol.

Plus, in the trailer you see Fox do the fastest SHFFLing that he can do. Imo this isn't as interesting as Yoshi walking through 3 Ganon warlock punches without a scratch, or even being phased by it.

 

[Alucard258]

Another thing to do is another version of an uber fast shine for fox. Shine, jump, shine, jump, air dodge down. If done correctly, its really fast.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

Not as fast as the shining done in the preview.

 

[The Cape]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50332

Add this?

 

[Alucard258]

Originally posted by SuperDoodleMan
Not as fast as the shining done in the preview.

Yeah but this would look cool.

 

[Rye]

I can perform the link edgegaurd 2/3 times... it's not tricky. The point of this video is doing nigh impossible things. Maybe something like having Fox shineguard every charcater's recovery or something. I don't know if some are even possible..

(by shineguard, i mean standing on the ledge and shining when they are close enough. NOT running off the ledge to shine spike)

 

[Neophos]

SDM: I would like to help with what I can help with.

Which isn't very much >__>

Maybe editing? Could you send me a clip that needs editing, and I can edit it?

And I can share it through my site afterwards, so that's covered.

 

[bboylawson]

Bump

 

[Neophos]

Sorry, SDM, I haven't relly had time to edit it x_x;

Will do right now ;D

 

[Omnigamer]

Hmmm...

Just noticed that my new editing software has an option to extract and use a single frame from a clip. Should shorten up the editing process by a lot.

... However, I'm currently in the middle of my own video project, so I probably won't be able to help with anything for another week or two.

But if other video editor people are interested, contact me via AIM (OmnigamerOmega) and I might be able to hook you up with the software.

 

[The Cape]

I found out Mario's up and B glitch can be done backwards.

Trying to deduce if you can climb one wall by doing this.

BACK TO THE AR!

 

[SadPanda]

I don't know exactly when dash dancing caps off, but the faster you press back and forth, the faster you go. I was wondering if it can go faster than people can make it. So I guess my idea would be perfect dash dancing with a fast character like Captain Falcon or Fox or someone.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

cape: if you can climb a wall with that see how fast you could do that vertical samus level in adventure mode.

SDM: how would i edit it frame by frame, i will be getting the footage on my PC by tomorrow. how would i edit it (ex. take every other frame out)?