Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

[Nabbitnator]

I was fighting a good diddy kong the other day and i'm not sure what to do about his flip. Can I punish it on reaction with anything?

 

[CandyCakes]

I use upsmash since the range was buffed

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

I tend to find Ground Float > Fair > Toss Cancel > Side Special to be good on Rosalina when she's with Luma since Luma will be knocked away / off stage and Toss Canceling can surprise Rosalina. I find doing this technique generally good since I can punish Rosalina if she tries roll away (punish with side-b), rolls towards me (down smash), etc.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I need to start using Nair against Rosalina more it knocks both Rosalina and luma away from me.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

hey girls, we would like to invite you to our peach discussion over at Zelda boards http://smashboards.com/threads/phan...-discussing-peach.372151/page-2#post-17889999

 

[ToferTheHuman]

How do we handle Diddy?

 

[Meru.]

As for the Villager, ALL of your aerials eat his slingshot (except for maybe Nair). Especially Bair is super effective, slingshot just literally disappears in her booty. A well-timed shorthopped Bair is very effective against his slingshot.

 

[Locuan]

Hey guys, today we start the discussion of Lucina vs. Peach on our match-up thread. It would be awesome if you guys could help out! Thread.

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

I'd like to echo the sentiment in here that Diddy is a huge issue (at least for me). His speed, flip, and nanners make it extremely hard to get turnips out safely.

Flip in general makes it so that I never ever feel safe in the matchup. If he trains me to shield his moves it wrecks me. If I try to get in on him flip still wrecks me.

His throw combos are also particularly brutal. What should be our focus in this matchup? I sort of feel like I have to play defensively against him, but I also feel like always defending against a Diddy is a losing strategy :/

 

[Nose]

try spot dodging his flip kick

if you can read it then you can punish it after the spot dodge and train him to stop doing it

 

[Awesomecakes]

So, up until recently i've just been weaving around Duck Hunt Dog's projectiles, I could usually do pretty alright, but landing was always an issue and faking out the can was never consistent. Then there's always the threat of the Up Air. What a fool I was, I gotta stop underestimating Nair. It goes through the plate and hits the can, leading to some pretty easy approaches if they think they're gonna just camp you. I'm not sure about the cowboy bullet, but its slow enough to start shooting that you can pretty much go right through it if you're close enough. So yah, low float Nair. Use it. This matchup should be in Peach's favor once you deal with the projectiles, just stay close so he doesn't set up and force you to shield too much, keep a turnip in hand for those Nairs as insurance, don't go high in the air if avoidable, and wait by the ledge for his recovery with a Nair. Shouldn't be too bad unless i'm missing something.

Though landing is still an issue if you get forced in the air. Also some of his moves with the duck have pretty good range, as do his smashes. Though once you're in his range with the Nairs it shouldn't be too bad to punish.

Anyone else have tricks for Duck Hunt Dog, did I miss anything?

 

[Nose]

okay

when it comes to villager, taking your time is definitely important

but there is quite literally no approach options that I've found. if they spam lloid and slingshot with mixup grab/nair/ftilt it's just too cumbersome to even try.

 

[CandyCakes]

Doesn't a turnip stop the Lloid?

 

[Dark.Pch]

okay

when it comes to villager, taking your time is definitely important

but there is quite literally no approach options that I've found. if they spam lloid and slingshot with mixup grab/nair/ftilt it's just too cumbersome to even try.

I'm pretty sure I stated that you can Nair the Lloid. Please read my right up on him more carefully.

 

[Nose]

I read the matchup many times dark.pch but I'm suggesting amendments
nair is inconsistent
sometimes it works, other times it doesn't
maybe it's the online but I cannot cancel it with even 75% consistency online

either way
you get in a very sticky situation when you get hit by lloid after a failed nair for whatever reason
it's almost not worth it, at least not online.

what I'm saying is
my opinion on the villager matchup is that you have to pretty much wait back and play a pure action-reaction game
and that nairing the lloid to get close isn't always the best option--

even if you do get the nair on the lloid, the villager is in the dominant position
you nair it, he comes in with a grab or an ftilt.

the only good use nair has for lloid is if he's running in after you behind the lloid,
in which is a pretty good option fo sho
but a good villager knows he can just set up a fortress of projectiles without having to pressure you up close.


I've found that rolling behind the lloid is a more feasible option when he's going full-on repel mode
and I hate to roll to approach
but honestly I think that's the best option if he isn't trailing after the lloid.
otherwise it's just too easy for him to read peach. she's too slow.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I usually don't have much of a problem Nairing the rocket. So could be your timing is off or online is getting to you. Villager is not gonna be at a distance to tilt or grab you after you nair the rocket unless you are close enough for him to even do that. Which you should not be.

I stated in the guide that when you get close to him, watch what the player does as a reaction. Stay out of the range of his tilts so if he throws it out, you can punish him for it with a dash attack or turnip if you have it in hand. If you Nair the rocket and you are close to him but out of all of tilt ranges, anything he does from here you can punish him for. As long as you stay out of tilt range, he is no threat to you. And anything he does from here you can react too. You have to take your time when getting close to him and when you are actually close to him. Anything he does near you he has to commit too. And if he wiffs, that is your chance to go in and pressure.

Rolling can leave you open to jump back Fairs by him as he moves in. Or go near you and jump back to a Dair and you roll into it. I play a really good villager a lot and he hits me with a lot of crazy mix ups. Rolling with your back turned on him is gonna get you rekt. You are lucky these villagers you are playing are letting you get away with that.

Also if you want to approach him from the air, which I don't recommend, when he shoots the rocket and tries to cover the air option with his fair, you can jump and toss the turnip to have it cover you from the shot, then get close to him.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I was fighting a good diddy kong the other day and i'm not sure what to do about his flip. Can I punish it on reaction with anything?

Fsmash it. Move and and out so the player thinks he can just come in on you with that move. And when you do, just Fsmash him out of it. You can nair/fair it but you need to have good timing for that.

best option is just to Fsmash it. Second best option is counter.

 

[Nose]

I usually don't have much of a problem Nairing the rocket. So could be your timing is off or online is getting to you. Villager is not gonna be at a distance to tilt or grab you after you nair the rocket unless you are close enough for him to even do that. Which you should not be.

I stated in the guide that when you get close to him, watch what the player does as a reaction. Stay out of the range of his tilts so if he throws it out, you can punish him for it with a dash attack or turnip if you have it in hand. If you Nair the rocket and you are close to him but out of all of tilt ranges, anything he does from here you can punish him for. As long as you stay out of tilt range, he is no threat to you. And anything he does from here you can react too. You have to take your time when getting close to him and when you are actually close to him. Anything he does near you he has to commit too. And if he wiffs, that is your chance to go in and pressure.

Rolling can leave you open to jump back Fairs by him as he moves in. Or go near you and jump back to a Dair and you roll into it. I play a really good villager a lot and he hits me with a lot of crazy mix ups. Rolling with your back turned on him is gonna get you rekt. You are lucky these villagers you are playing are letting you get away with that.

Also if you want to approach him from the air, which I don't recommend, when he shoots the rocket and tries to cover the air option with his fair, you can jump and toss the turnip to have it cover you from the shot, then get close to him.

rolling I only did one match,
but the player was caught off guard because I usually was struggling to nair lloid/experimenting with different approaches. I wouldn't say it's surefire, but it could be legitimate mixup I believe if you utilize it correctly with OoS.

but if you can get close to villager without them throwing out slingshot or upair to see what he does then I'm surprised they let you get away with that. dash attack from tilt, his tilt is too fast. turnip, though, could suffice; I should pluck more in my matches.

there's no way to be safe when you're next to villager though, his options simply outnumber yours.

a villager I fought a few days back replayed one of his matches; they were somewhat goofy friendlies, so recovery mistakes and stuff like that aren't integral faults, but the neutral shares the core of our more serious matchups. maybe my explanations don't do justice to the situation; since you are willing to offer advice on mus I think the replay could shed some light. not the best quality,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0OoLrMptFI&feature=youtu.be
but it does the job.

for the record
I don't have an especially tough time with this match up
as when you take your time and compose patience you will probably snuff out the win
but I think the villager mu guide could be more tight.

 

[Dark.Pch]

let me paint you a picture cause we are not clicking right now.

Villager shoots a rocket and then covers the air with his fair. I move in with a grounded nair. To cancel the rocket. I now am not really gonna do anything cause from here. At a certain range, if he short hops fairs Peach, the shot will go over her. I get close to him grounded. not by the air, so I don't see how he is gonna land an upair on me. So there is your surprise spoiler. Now I am close enough where it is no longer safe for him to shoot a rocket. And I am out of tilt range. But close enough to punish him with a dash attack if he tosses one out.

Villager shoots a rocket and then follows along with it. What I am gonna do is as soon as he goes in with the rocket I am gonna jump high and stay in place to avoid a fair if it happens. If I have a turnip I'll stand my ground and throw the turnip. From here I can throw out a spaced dair or fair in the case he does not and auto cancel it. Then land and get ready to defend/counter attack. or I can use the turnip and follow up after it to move forward and maybe counter what he does if he stays grounded. if he goes in and jumps back you can move up a lil and then land. Just to close the distance between you and him.

And just how are you not safe when you are close to him. What are his options upclose that seriously out number mines. Really if I have a turnip in my hand. Please answer this question.

 

[Nose]

the problem with nairing the rocket
is that the villager can read you a step or two ahead from what you're doing.

if you choose to nair the rocket, he will run up with a grab, or even a dash. ftilt will come out if you nair and don't shield.
if you choose to go above, he'll fair you, or shorthop lloid to fair.
he'll repeat these until he decides to mixup.
my point being there ARE ways to approach villager, and it's not an UNWINNABLE matchup, but approaches aren't RELIABLE or CONSISTENT, because he can pretty sturdily read you. I agree with your methods of approach, but they're still the best of the worst situation.

when you're close to him it will always be in shield. try going up to him without shielding and you'll be punished for it. even after you nair the rocket, you'll have to shield for the incoming whatever or you'll have to stand ground/retreat if you're far enough.
if the villager messes up and follows the rocket, you can nair both at the same time and get in a quick combo,
but if you are put in close quarters, villager can immediately push you out between lloid, fair, nair and grab
when you're reduced to OoS options villager can easily grab.
IF you have a turnip in your hand, you can even your odds,
but you'll probably have used it by the point you got close to him.

we're clicking
just to clear that up
I just don't agree with you on the reliability of the approaches you outlined.

 

[Dark.Pch]

From the way you sound, you are only going on about him reading you. What about you reading him as well. or what about you being hard to read in general. You are seriously worrying too much. If you see him going for something a lot, switch it up.

You noticed he wants to rocket and fair a lot?

- Nair the rocket and avoid the fair, now you are close to him
- Jump to a void the rocket and toss out a turnip to block the sling shot. Then he is unable to move till he touches the floor. Giving you an chance to move in and counter or force a block/evasion.

He wants to fair or short hop rocket to fair?

- Stay and approach him grounded because now he is not covering the ground which gives you free space to get close to him and punish his landing and force him to block/evade.

Now you say: He will repeat until he decided to mix up.

IF HE REPEATS WHAT HE IS DOING, THEN YOU SWITCH IT UP SO YOU WONT GET CAUGHT WITH THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER YET AGAIN.

if you mix up both air and ground in these cases he is not always gonna catch you with these set ups. Cause he has to guess how you are gonna go in since you are making it really hard for him to tell how you will approach. If you make it easy for him to guess that, then of course you are gonna get hit a lot. Cause you keep doing the same thing. If you keep picking rock, I am gonna keep picking paper until you decide to pic something else. And if you mix and match what you pick, it becomes hard for me to choose the correct answer. its no longer free for me to win.

Just as he has options to deal with how you approach, you also have options to deal with it and get close. You are so worried about all this stuff he can do and forget that you can adapt to the player. Learn to adapt to what the player is doing and mix it up to be hard to figure out and bait all of this for punishes. This is not one side when it comes to reading a player and mixing it up like you make it out to be. Those 2 step ups to stop approaches that you mention, he can't do them both at the same time. He has to pick one.

You also need to realize not everyone plays the same way with said character. people think different. What one player might do with him, the next player might not. That's why adapting to the player is important and not thinking everyone will do the same thing with said character.

Now what you said here is assuming that ALLL people who use him do this. Which they won't And I just went through this. But for the sake of this example:

when you're close to him it will always be in shield.

Ok so if he always shield when you get close to him, grab him. Simple as that. Or if you seriously need to be sure he won't do a thing, Space a move on his shield and then frame trap him with a Dtilt, or TLC. Or punish his reaction out of shield when you space a move and he tries to attack, evade OoS. This tells you wether its safe to just grame him cause he wont do a damm thing as you just stated, or bait a reaction out of him then punish.

try going up to him without shielding and you'll be punished for it. even after you nair the rocket, you'll have to shield for the incoming whatever or you'll have to stand ground/retreat if you're far enough.

This does not tell me his all so many options he has upclose compared to you. If you block something that he does. Punish him for it. if he backs away, slowly follow him, and see if he attacks you, if he does, punish, if not and he shields, go for shield pressure or grab him. And I did say in the guide you have to shield. be patient and counter what he does. Cause at a certain range you can not go in swining for you dont have a fast move with range. Thats why you have to wait with this character. And get rewarded with the many counter options you have.

if the villager messes up and follows the rocket, you can nair both at the same time and get in a quick combo,
but if you are put in close quarters, villager can immediately push you out between lloid, fair, nair and grab

First off, if he rockets you point blank, thats a free punish. he can't not let the rocket off at a close range. A fair, you can cancel it with a nair as Yaaay stated. So in this case you can Nair approach grounded with a TLC if you have a turnip covering a risky rocket launch and nair to get close and a possible punish. Or force a block. And his grab is grab. You can Nair then TLC or evade as soon as you land to evade the grab if you sense it, that simple. SPace a nair and then block if you since he will do it. Then either counter attack OoS or follow his landing and force him to block, evade. Then pressure, punish. He can't really throw out moves when you are near him. it is not safe.

when you're reduced to OoS options villager can easily grab. IF you have a turnip in your hand, you can even your odds, but you'll probably have used it by the point you got close to him.

You can actually Ground nair out of shield. or Zdrop out of shield. Or simply evade. You have options dude. His grab is slow. You pick this options based on what the PLAYER IS DOING. Thats something you really need to understand.

So you state he can do this and this, and I just clearly gave you answer to it if he does so, what you can do about it. And these are seriously quite simple. Your problem is you are not adapting to what these players are doing to you. Even when you see it over and over to a point you can tell me what they are doing. And still get hit for it then saying you cant do anything, its hard or he has so many options up close that out number yours which is seriously not true at all.

To put it simple. Learn to adapt more and seriously mix up what you are doing. Stop trying to do the same thing to every player. Stop assuming that every player will do the same thing and learn how to be hard to read.

 

[Nose]

woah

dark.pch you went a lil intense there

like I said, I wasn't disagreeing with your methods of approach. I'm just saying it's not favourable. I'm not clawing for answers or unfathomably stuck in the villager mu; when I dedicate myself towards the match, I end up winning.

my advice for you is the same you give to me; don't assume, man. it's not like I rush in with the same attacks every time.

I'm simply stating a good villager can reduce your approach options and make it difficult, an uphill battle. you make it sound like I have a personal crusade against your advice! I feel like I offended you or something.
if I did, I'm sorry.

well, either way, you have solid stuff for the most part.
I just don't agree with what you're saying entirely, and I'm okay with that.
that doesn't make me any worse of a player, though.

 

[Dark.Pch]

woah

dark.pch you went a lil intense there

like I said, I wasn't disagreeing with your methods of approach. I'm just saying it's not favourable. I'm not clawing for answers or unfathomably stuck in the villager mu; when I dedicate myself towards the match, I end up winning.

my advice for you is the same you give to me; don't assume, man. it's not like I rush in with the same attacks every time.

I'm simply stating a good villager can reduce your approach options and make it difficult, an uphill battle. you make it sound like I have a personal crusade against your advice! I feel like I offended you or something.
if I did, I'm sorry.

well, either way, you have solid stuff for the most part.
I just don't agree with what you're saying entirely, and I'm okay with that.
that doesn't make me any worse of a player, though.

Huh? I was not offended with anything. Nor made. Just because I explain something in detail does not mean I am pissed. I was fine the whole time. Maybe you should take a lil take of your own potion and not assume yourself eh?

And I don't disagree that he can make it hard to get in. What I disagree with is you making it out to be that you simple can do a thing about it and how he can mix things up. Not taking into account you can also mix things up. Mix ups are not one sided here. And what you stated I gave you options for them. the rest is on you.

And if you don't agree with me then that's fine. No one says you have too. I don't care if I am a big know Peach players in the community. That does not mean you have to listen to me. You can do as you please. All I do is go out my way to help others. You can take it or leave it. And there is no right/wrong choice to that.

 

[Nose]

ahh, but your language implied you were upset. at least, to me it did. I'm sure it didn't to you in retrospect, but we aren't all the same people, right?

I know you can do things about it; if I said there weren't, which if I ever did say I meant in exaggeration (as in it can be extremely hard), then I wouldn't have said it was just hard to get in. I know I can mix things up, and so can the villager; the aspect of all I was arguing is that it's difficult to get in and that I don't explicitly agree with your options.

haha, but you don't have to tell me twice to swallow your pill. if I didn't agree with your advice to begin with, then I simply wouldn't take it. I simply contest on the points you make; what you do I take in good faith, because you do put a lot of effort into your explanations, even if I think they aren't perfect.

I appreciate you for the work you do, man. you do good stuff.

 

[Awesomecakes]

Any ways to deal with Sheik?
They can rack up damage really quickly, are hard to get in on thanks to needles, and can approach us pretty easy.
I've had some luck when they're trying to kill but can't, i've had one match where I lived till like 240 and found a kill first. Though good ones can edgeguard, and get some clutch bouncing fish.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You main goal is to get close to sheik by floating to avoid needles. You need to do this with a turnip in hand to be safe. At a certain range land and don't do anything. See what the play does and adapt from it. This is the range where she can no longer shoot needles safely. It will force the player to stop. Just like you get near any character shooting projectiles.

At this range you kinda wanna stay grounded. Grounded air attacks with TLC are good for snuffing out her approaches. The only thing you would have to worry about is her tilts and dash attacks. So use turnips to get close and force an action/shield/evasion. Then take it from there with pressure or spaced moves.

A good thing to do at a range where she can not shoot needles freely is to go to her and then run back to a reverse jump cancel throw. if you land that, catch that turnip and go in with another mix up or pressure. It's not safe for sheik to freely push a button on you. You wanna maintain a range where she can not shoot needles. And don't be in the air attack with approaches unless you condition them to be grounded. If not they will try to make you float due to needles then come in with an air attack or upsmash. Id you send that, close and then land to a shield.

One way to get in from the air through is to float over the needles and as you land, toss the turnip. While they are reacting to that, that's you chance to get in. Pressure if they block. You either hit her out of the needles or you force her to block, evade.

Spaced fairs with TLC and recatching turnips can make it hard for shiel to get in on you. Though you have to be at that certain distance where she cant needle you. Also have good movement. Really important. Being slow and staying on one place for too long just shielding is not good.

 

[Awesomecakes]

ok, I'll have to work on spacing against sheik then. I guess i was going in from the air too often.

One other problem is just sorta having a turnip. Sometime's peach will just drop the turnip when getting hit by an attack and when this happens, getting out of pressure and answering back is really hard. Finding opportunities to pluck is another issue. I guess being on battlefield would be good for having easy access to turnips, but on FD needles control too much of the stage. plucking from long range means I need to get in again. I will work on finding these opportunities. One thing I might be doing is overextending on followups during places I could be reaching for turnips and establishing stage control.

Also, thanks for reminding me about jump canceled throw, it totally slipped my mind that I could do that in this game.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Dropping turnips when being hit is random. It's been like that in all smash games.

If sheik is not near you when shooting needle float in place until she shoots them ( if you can tell when she will). After that, drop to the ground and turnip cancel off the ledge, jump then float to her. You quickly get a turnip and then you can float to her avoiding needle. Use this time to start the methods of getting close to her.

You can do this on any stage without platforms to get free turnips Vs sheik.

 

[Dark.Pch]

post mistake, ignore this

 

[Dekazi]

thank you for this match-up thread Dark.Pch !
so i have a problem with cpt falcon he is seriously a pain in the ass i got 2stocked a lot by a real good cpt falcon yesterday in FG.

he was extremely agressive and hit me with his bair all the time also his grabs are insane he juggled me in the air even if i was air dodging and mixed up the way i wanted to land.

also my aireals seem not to hit him at all his aireals have always priority no matter what.

please help

 

[Dark.Pch]

thank you for this match-up thread Dark.Pch !
so i have a problem with cpt falcon he is seriously a pain in the *** i got 2stocked a lot by a real good cpt falcon yesterday in FG.

he was extremely agressive and hit me with his bair all the time also his grabs are insane he juggled me in the air even if i was air dodging and mixed up the way i wanted to land.

also my aireals seem not to hit him at all his aireals have always priority no matter what.

please help

You Need to slow him down if you wanna get anything started. Its best to fight him with a turnip in your hand. If he likes to approach on the ground, you can go in, then run back and reverse jump cancel throw. Stops you completely and you toss the turnip behind you. This slows him down grounded. If you manage to be close enough, grab the turnip and go in with a spaced air attack to a TLC. You can also go in with a nair, then run back to a reverse jump cancel throw. Mixing up if you decide to TLC or not. Keep people guess and just adopt to how the player reactions to what you are and the distance between you guys.
In the air, you really dont wanna challenge him. His nair is quick and have good range. Same with his uair.

At a certain distance jump back with a turnip in hand if he comes in with an air attack. When it wiffs, Fall to a fair to hit him. If you dont get the hit, the TLC is to cover you for a hit or start pressure now that he has to block/evade. Just make sure you have room to back up and not put yourself in a nasty spot. if he short hops a move you can full hop yours to evade and toss a turnip downward. or come down with a dair and take it from there. You only go in the air when you condition him to stay grounded.

Always try to stay moving. If He is grabbing you alot, I would assume is cause you are being in one spot for too long shielding or doing something unsafe. Use QFR (quick float release) to move in and out quickly with a mix of reverse jump cancel throws. Makes it hard to tell what you will do, not always in one place and then you can throw the turnip at random times as well as go in for approaches.

At a distance, space fairs in the case he wants to jump in on you from a distance. If he does not, just move in grounded with things like grounded nairs. Space it and then if anything, run back to a reverse turnip cancel throw in the case he wants to go in. Or you can run back to spaced grounded bairs. This helps you check out how he tires to get in on you and tell you what you should do in terms of approaching, countering, defending.

Try to keep grounded walls while moving in with grounded nairs. After a nair you can then use some more QFR With some TLC, or jump cancel throws. Just always mix up with these options to be hard to read. Practice this alot in training mode. Mix your movement using QFR, TLC grounded nairs and Jump cancel throws. Mix and match them all.

If you ever get hit, just move away and don't really try to fight him off. if off stage, recover low. Don't try to dair him coming down. You are just gonna keep eating attacks. Go for the ledge with low recoveries.

Another way to avoid alot of stuff and make things easier is to pin him to the corner. if you see him go back alot, slowly move in and space your moves. or do grounded nair to TLC. Only fair if you are far enough that he can't punish you on start up time. If you pinn him to the ledge you have more room to better space with moves like fair if he wants to jump in on you. or counter his approaches with moving grounded nairs.

if he has you on shield, don't really try to punish him. Good falcons will space their moves to jabs or uptilts. Just be patient unless you have a good idea what the player will do and then execute the correct response. just respect falcon on shield.

Avoid being in the corner alot. If he is out of your nair range, he can punish nearly anything you try to do OoS. Even if you are not shielding.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

The King calls you to his lair of darkness... don't worry, you will not be kidnapp... *Cough* ....ed.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-dark-arts-of-ganon-match-up-discussion-guide.373934/

 

[Nose]

fun fact for you kiddos

peach's dair goes through the floor at the edges of battlefield
which can pop a villager's balloon pretty safely
and can surprise an opponent who relies on the slope to slide up and recover

 

[Awesomecakes]

So, how to Greninja?
The water shuriken is a little too good. It has wonderful range, can be charged and used in the air. If they charge it too close, you can punish but they can easily release it earlier or they can use it in the air they're basically safe. Also, you can't pluck turnips safely because of how good of a range the shuriken have, and how fast greninja is. I really can't get close to ones that know what they're doing. Also, Dair pressure doesn't work well because of how low to the ground they are.
Now ideally you'd be able to get in to a range where they can't use them, then pressure with ground float, space and punish. But he's so fast that he can close the distance immediately, and his smashes all have great range and are difficult to punish meaning he'll beat you at pretty much any range.
On FD/Omega Peach has a really really hard time.

Battlefield is better since you have open access to turnips from platforms, and you can get around the shuriken. The problem is up smash reaches up there, and covers a lot of ground, but Toad blocks this reasonably well so it isn't much of a problem. And if you can, there's Brinstar and Jungle Japes.

What ideas do y'all Peach's have? I haven't had much luck but maybe you guys have.

 

[Nose]

with water shuriken, if I can't mobilize fast enough in the air to punish it with a fair (as good greninjas will space it so that you can't), I often float over it, fast fall after it passes, and make them act. it's very good to have a turnip in this situation. you shouldn't have that much of a problem pulling them against greninja; he's fast, but if he's water shuriken-ing, then the distance is far enough for you to ledge cancel pluck a turnip.
I have more trouble plucking against sheik because her needles travel fast regardless of charge; nothing's worse than dropping your freshly plucked turnip due to a needle. greninja's shuriken is too slow, even when uncharged, to impede your turnip pluckin' that much in my experience.
you have to be careful with approaching right above greninja; if you do it too often, esp. with dair, he'll run right up and upsmash you, and obviously that's not good for you. so I'd stay with the turnip and float above shuriken then wait until he wisens up and tries to bait the float and nab you with an aerial. when that happens you can just back up the float a bit and fair him, then continue pressure with the turnip you have in hand.

I find that side-b is useful against dancy greninjas at close range; it's fast and unpredictable, and using it to pop him in the air allows you a lot of good follow up options. he can also be pretty easily shield-grabbed on a lot of his attacks, as he does have to commit to them at close range; down throw to whatever and you're in business. his dair goes fast but you can actually upsmash him out of it with proper timing, which is really satisfying to do.

I haven't faced a really good greninja yet, though. this is all more-or-less general advice.

 

[CC Emi]

thank you thread by Dark.Pch. I learned a lot in this thread.
and i have something problem match with Pikachu
can you game some suggestion with it?

 

[Dark.Pch]

thank you thread by Dark.Pch. I learned a lot in this thread.
and i have something problem match with Pikachu
can you game some suggestion with it?

Have not really fought Pikachu so can't really give advice on it. Sorry.

And sorry I have not been active here. I been really busy. I'll up date this thread and I'll add sheik as the next write up.

 

[Nose]

sheik is a good write-up to have

movement is such key factor in that matchup
that it's reference would be valuable in general to peach play.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I would love to know how to approach/punish/ and properly defend against sheik. I mean I can shield and grab but a lot of the time it trades.

 

[Nose]

sheik very often trades I find, too; her aerials come out very quickly compared to peach, with the exception of nair which comes out about the same. it makes continuing the juggle somewhat more bothersome, cause you can't abuse it like you can with heavier, slower characters.
jabs in this game are ridiculous I think, too. I think a good deal of it has to do with online lag in my play, but if you descend with an spaced aerial and you both land at around the same time, she'll get the jab into finisher (or if she's a good sheik, get a grab), which makes it immensely annoying to apply continual pressure from landing. approach-wise you almost always have to force the sheik to whiff a grab/dash and punish with the most efficient combo you have at hand, unless you have a turnip in which case things are more expendable. no approaching from the ground at all; needles will shut you down immediately. baiting with float and dropping it to mix up movement options is so important against a good sheik, because a predictable pattern is fooooood for her, whereas (strategically) moving targets cause her to be riskier and much easier to punish.

needles are just uber annoying; they don't deal much damage thankfully, unless you actively try to stay out of sheik's way and she camps you. without turnip ledge canceling, picking a turnip is slightly more dangerous, but if the situation is that far into neutral, you can just run away and pluck one safely.

if she knocks you into the air over the stage, you can't descend safely with dair; uair always beats out dair. I'd recommend going for ledge in the high percents, and getting a parasol/uair/fair from there to reestablish stage position. if she knocks you over the edge and you have to approach, I find toad very useful here; sheik's enjoy keeping their momentum, she's like a spinning plate. shove a toad in her face and you wobble that plate, throw her off a bit. otherwise just go low; she has very few options from below besides a floppy fish which is super risky if it whiffs, and a fair which will be hard to connect.

I find gf nairs hard to pull out; they'd be a good tactic at close range, because they really do beat out a lot of sheik's close range options, but needles are so bothersome that it's almost not worth doing it. one needle to grab and you just wasted a good opportunity and put more percent on yourself.

dtilts are pretty useful because while in the animation of them you duck under needles. plus good setups and all that, etc. the sheik mu I'm not terribly solid on, haha.


you wanna focus a lot of your efforts on edgeguarding. she's pretty easy to edgeguard if you force her in a pattern. knock her off, intimidate with low float. she'll either get hit by you, put herself in a bad position, or try to stagespike you; don't get stagespiked by floppy fish, that's silly. don't just stand at the edge though; she needs to be pressured when returning. she's got good horizontal distance from somewhat upwards and away, but if you knock her low, she's not coming back easily.


dark.pch will have more to offer than I will, though. this stuff is more or less generic.