Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

[Killyomama]

im having trouble with zss. i cant seem to get any good kill moves on her

 

[Nabbitnator]

How do you deal with the marth match up? I feel like for as long as I've played peach I should know it by now but I don't.

 

[Nabbitnator]

um...this was an accidental double post.

 

[Sugar Cookie]

Mega man is such a pain in the a$$ to deal with. @ Dark.Pch you have any advice and tips?

 

[Awesomecakes]

@ Sugar Cookie megamen tend to camp, and when they do stop using projectiles its usually just a dash attack, down tilt or grab. Don't get too hasty trying to get in on them or you'll eat one of these quick options. Keep a turnip in hand as you walk up and move safely like a fortress, without giving openings until you close them off near the edge. once you get close enough they'll have to do one of those options or roll behind you, all of which are punishable. Once you're in, stay close and/or don't let him land for free.

Also if he's charging his buster don't go in prematurely with Fair, float above and wait till after he's shot it to punish.

The most annoying kind of megaman is the one that uses the jab/Nair wall. It makes it tough to get in on them, and even when you're close they come out fast enough that they can keep doing it. But the principle remains the same. Close space off, don't give them a chance to move, they will have to come in with a grab or something eventually, the pellet shots don't do much damage at all so just stay patient. Also Turnip out of Shield is your friend. I haven't played a megaman that did this in a while, so I haven't really tried more creative options, but you could also try using Toad on the pellets if you encounter them. Though I haven't actually tried it myself.

 

[LordShade67]

@Awesomecakes
So, would Walking Shield while holding a Turnip also apply to other zoning characters, or is it best to mix it up? Pardon the dumb question. Didn't really use Peach much in 3DS (lolcontrols), so I'm alittle behind in that regard. ^^;

 

[Awesomecakes]

@ LordShade67 Yah Turnip out of shield is a really good option for peach in general. It allows peach to punish moves that would usually be safe on shield, like if Marth or Jigglypuff spaced an aerial or characters with really good dash attacks. It's also pretty non-committal, and you'll rarely be punished for throwing a turnip. It also makes peach harder to grab since you can run away and throw it back, or just snuff someone running at you entirely.

Zoning characters would also tend to give you more space to pluck turnips. Walking forward is just a way of closing off space without committing to an offensive option that would get punished. Since they need to respect the turnip, you're in a very good position defensively. Once you close off the space, they'll be forced to act which is when you get them. I use pretty much the same strategy against jigglypuff, palutena, link and samus. With Link and samus you may have less time to pull turnips and they have a ranged grab so you'll need to be more active but turnip is a very good approach. Though with samus specifically, they can shield break you if they have a charge shot, so watch out.

Robin is a little different since if you get hit with Elfire on shield you'll be stuck till the move is done, so walking is less of an option. And Villager you need to play a specific way, but there's more on that above.

 

[Illuvial]

Friend is having troubles with the Jigglypuff MU. Any tips or a small write-up that someone could give me? He's convinced its in Jiggs favor and that its bad for Peach but I keep saying that its even if not SLIGHTLY in Jiggs favor at worst

 

[Dark.Pch]

Mega man is such a pain in the a$$ to deal with. @ Dark.Pch you have any advice and tips?

Sorry, I don't get to play that character alot to have solid advice on what to do.

And I'm sorry once again that I have not been active here. Work is taking most of my time along with other things. I'll be free from sunday to thursday so I can answer more stuff and help you guys out. Just bare with me. Uncle Peach did not forget about the kids. And Shiek is the next write up I'll put on here.

 

[Babatunde]

Friend is having troubles with the Jigglypuff MU. Any tips or a small write-up that someone could give me? He's convinced its in Jiggs favor and that its bad for Peach but I keep saying that its even if not SLIGHTLY in Jiggs favor at worst

I don't think she struggles keeping her back, she has all the tools to do it with Fair and Fsmash, even back air.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I noticed you already have a Rosalina blurb up so I hope this isn't pointless, but I want to basically confirm that air approaches via float are a good way to work around Luma since it sticks to the ground. If Rosalina wants it to stay in the air, she needs to put it there herself and keep it there by spamming attacks, which is punishable.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I noticed peach bomber is a nice way to get rid of luma or separate luma from Rosalina when you get the chance.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I was gonna do a write up for shiek but I am gonna hold back on that. There is something I have to get use too and don't wanna give false info. I might do Lil mac just to get another match up out the way

 

[TuxedoMob]

This is probably a stupid question, but do Peach's air attacks do more damage depending on how high you're floating? For some reason I thought I saw them do more damage the higher up you are.

 

[Felth]

@ Dark.Pch I hace a lot of problems with a friends that plays Captain Falcon, I don't lnow how to face him :/

 

[Babatunde]

Captain Falcon should be approached in this game as you would in other games, space out his options and combo him well. You also mostly wanna recover low against him due to his long range in his Uair.

 

[Dark.Pch]

@ Dark.Pch I hace a lot of problems with a friends that plays Captain Falcon, I don't lnow how to face him :/

You Need to slow him down if you wanna get anything started. Its best to fight him with a turnip in your hand. If he likes to approach on the ground, you can go in, then run back and reverse jump cancel throw. Stops you completely and you toss the turnip behind you. This slows him down grounded. You can also go in with a nair, then run back to a reverse jump cancel throw. Mixing up if you decide to TLC or not. Keep people guess and just adopt to how the player reactions to what you are and the distance between you guys. In the air, you really dont wanna challenge him. His nair is quick and have good range. Same with his uair.

At a certain distance jump back with a turnip in hand if he comes in with an air attack. When it wiffs, Fall to a fair to hit him. If you dont get the hit, start pressure now that he has to block/evade. Just make sure you have room to back up and not put yourself in a nasty spot. if he short hops a move you can full hop yours to evade and toss a turnip downward. or come down with a dair and take it from there. You only go in the air when you condition him to stay grounded.

Always try to stay moving. If He is grabbing you alot, I would assume is cause you are being in one spot for too long shielding or doing something unsafe. Use QFR (quick float release) to move in and out quickly with a mix of reverse jump cancel throws. Makes it hard to tell what you will do, not always in one place and then you can throw the turnip at random times as well as go in for approaches.

At a distance, space fairs in the case he wants to jump in on you from a distance. If he does not, just move in grounded with things like grounded nairs. Space it and then if anything, run back to a reverse turnip cancel throw in the case he wants to go in. Or you can run back to spaced grounded bairs. This helps you check out how he tires to get in on you and tell you what you should do in terms of approaching, countering, defending.

Try to keep grounded walls while moving in with grounded nairs. After a nair you can then use some more QFR With some jump cancel throws. Just always mix up with these options to be hard to read. Practice this alot in training mode. Mix your movement using QFR, grounded nairs and Jump cancel throws. Mix and match them all. If you ever get hit, just move away and don't really try to fight him off. if off stage, recover low. Don't try to dair him coming down. You are just gonna keep eating attacks. Go for the ledge with low recoveries.

Another way to avoid alot of stuff and make things easier is to pin him to the corner. if you see him go back alot, slowly move in and space your moves. Only fair if you are far enough that he can't punish you on start up time. If you pinn him to the ledge you have more room to better space with moves like fair if he wants to jump in on you. or counter his approaches with moving grounded nairs.

if he has you on shield, don't really try to punish him. Good falcons will space their moves to jabs or uptilts. Just be patient unless you have a good idea what the player will do and then execute the correct response. just respect falcon on shield.
Avoid being in the corner alot. If he is out of your nair range, he can punish nearly anything you try to do OoS. Even if you are not shielding.

 

[Dark.Pch]

This is probably a stupid question, but do Peach's air attacks do more damage depending on how high you're floating? For some reason I thought I saw them do more damage the higher up you are.

A falling nair while floating does 6%. As for doing more damage, I am not sure but I will check that out.

 

[Nose]

For lighter characters, such as Sheik, I find that a dtilt anywhere around the mid-90%s provides enough knockback and hitstun to finish off the stock with the parasol. It's a great way to kill when you can't get them to the edge.

I've tried this on a stale computer, on a lvl. 9, and on a very competent Sheik player, and it killed reliably all times. As long as you get the strong dtilt, you can easily jump up there and parasol in time for them to be pushed over the upper blast line before they can airdodge.

For me, at the very least, it makes the matchup much less bothersome. Plus, it finishes off the stock relatively early. It does so even earlier on stages like Halberd, Town and City/Smashville with the platforms, etc.

edit -- here's some gifs to exemplify what I was saying

 

[topspin1617]

Does anyone have tips on the Sonic matchup other than what has already been said? I played a ridiculous Sonic online last night and for the most part couldn't touch him. Trying to nair him out of spindash was extremely difficult to do... maybe I just need to work on timing? I had mild success floating and dairing him out of the spin but couldn't do it consistently enough. Tried shielding the spindash, but I found no opening to punish, meaning I really accomplished nothing by blocking. Sonic's also fast enough to just dash grab me instead once I tried shielding more.

The speed and mixup potential of Sonic, especially from the spindash, just overwhelmed me over and over. Does anyone have any more advice beyond what was said here? This was one of my most frustrating matches yet, because I feel like he was doing the same thing over and over and I couldn't figure out how to stop him.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Your first mistake is floating and trying to dair him. You can't do that. Its easy for sonic to hit you. Don't try to catch him.

Honestly, I dont think there can be much said then what I broke down here. You seriously have to wait and not throw out too many moves. or be in the air alot or you will get hit out of it. Have a turnip in your hand and do jump cancel throws is he tries to spin dash too you. And you are gonna need to shield alot.

When you shield, do not try and punish him. Just follow his landing and see what he does while being safe. Then adapt from there with the proper response. When you are close to sonic, he can not really spin dash. An average sonic would evade in this situation. Bait it if you see the habit and then punish it. Slow him down with turnips while staying grounded.

And one important thing is to always stay moving. if you get grabbed alot its cause you are on ine place for too long. From how this sounds, seems you need to learn how to bait habits more and how to punish them.

Seriously, this is what I do and all I said in the guide and I rarely lose to the character. I check out the player first while being safe to see what he does when I go near him, away from him, attack, shield, etc. Then I keep mental note of it. Then bait the reactions and punish them. if you can do this, just about any character will roll all over you, even if the players are not that skilled.

 

[topspin1617]

Hey thanks for the reply!

I might just need practice vs good Sonics, but one of the big issues was dealing with that spindash; I definitely triedl playing more patient at a point, shielding the approach, but he would go so fast that by the time I could drop the shield it was almost impossible to try to track his landing/stopping point to do anything, at least before he approached again (probably with spindash haha).

But again maybe it's just a matter of practice, because (and maybe the most frustrating part was) I felt like I shouldn't have keep being caught over and over, but I wasn't reacting to inputs fast enough or something. I really was trying to bait habits, but just always being a moment slow reacting killed me. Hopefully I'll play some other good Sonics and just get more comfortable with the matchup.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Today starts Peach week at the Rosalina's Match-Up Analysis thread. If you want to discuss Peach's match-up against Rosalina, just head to the following thread link.

http://smashboards.com/threads/380230/

 

[topspin1617]

What's everyone's opinion on Peach's matchup with Robin?

After playing a decent one the other day, I started to notice a bunch of points in Robin's favor. In the air, his Levin Sword strikes have the strength and coverage to do a lot of damage. I found it was basically impossible to contest Robin in the air (especially when I'm trying to recover) while he had the Levin Sword.

He seemed somewhat difficult to approach. The angle of his Arcfire was sometimes problematic for air approaches (as well as the automatic activation making it difficult for grounded approaches), and Thunder is a great projectile for controlling space or just harassing with the weaker versions. The Levin Sword is still incredibly powerful on the ground, too.

I was able to have some success covering approaches with turnips, but Robin still seemed to be tough to handle once I made it in.

Does anyone else feel that this matchup is in Robin's favor? Or is there something Peach can do that I maybe didn't try or execute well enough that makes him easier to handle?

 

[Nabbitnator]

When I usually play against robin I usually try to stay add odd positions for Arc fire to miss and stay just out of his Levin's sword range. One thing I have not tried is to combat arc fire or thunder with turnips to make him waste his projectiles.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Sheik write up done.

 

[nycsmasher]

good information

 

[Nabbitnator]

Sheik is so difficult to fight. I won but it seems like I have to weave in and out with nair to break out of her fair combo stuff and to start my combos with nair. I also figured that if I began to stay just out of her down b range I would have enough time to use Up smash which kills early.

 

[Meru.]

Sheik is one of her harder match-ups but even she is still surprisingly doable. Fair outranges everything she has, and Bair beats a lot of her options too, plus it's fast. That said her Fair is ****ing ridiculous so you will prbably get hit and juggled a lot. Landing is Peach's biggest weakness because of her ridiculous floatiness and Sheik will try to abuse this weakness a lot by chasing you in the air. With her Up B, Uair, Fair and Bouncing Fish she can score some pretty early kills too. Try to land as safe as possible and don't try challenge her too much. Don't try to challenge her attacks too much. An occasional aerial against her face does work well against her and it forces her to back down a bit more, but be sure to actually hit her. If you keep whiffing aerials you'll get destroyed vs Sheik. It's always better to be safe than sorry so don't try challenge her too much.

Honestly if you have landing safely down Sheik becomes much much much easier, so this is probably the thing Peach players should focus most on (it also helps a lot in other match-ups, landing safely is so important). Other than it's that ridiculous Fair which is completely safe on shield, but her jab is easy shieldgrab material. That said her dash grab is also really fast and her grab follow-ups are scary so sitting in your shield all the time is not the best option.

 

[speedguy20]

So what about Meta Knight? He's an annoying one to deal with.

 

[Nabbitnator]

How do we fight Pikachu?

 

[speedguy20]

How do we fight Pikachu?

Good reads, and a lot of patience. You can use Turnup to force Pikachu to approach you the you can punish with D-throw --> follow up

 

[Ladyspiker]

Thanks for the write-up on Sheik

A good Pikachu can be very difficult. Good reads or quick reactions are very true. One Pikachu attempted to get back on the stage using skull bash...of course, Toad had something to say about that!

I rarely ever see Meta Knight...but that also means I'm unprepared for when I do see one.

 

[speedguy20]

Thanks for the write-up on Sheik

A good Pikachu can be very difficult. Good reads or quick reactions are very true. One Pikachu attempted to get back on the stage using skull bash...of course, Toad had something to say about that!

I rarely ever see Meta Knight...but that also means I'm unprepared for when I do see one.

Yea I rarely see them online, and when I do find one, I just SD and change to Sheik or Marth/Lucina.

 

[Nabbitnator]

So what about Meta Knight? He's an annoying one to deal with.

You can play a reaction game with him. He has good approach options like spaced nairs, dair to chip at your shield or start a combo. He has dash attack and watch out for his down throw as it combos into forward air. Peach does fall out of it at times.

His tornado isn't so bad this time around so watch out for it when you are coming down. Its a good way to punish air dodging. If you manage to avoid it punish it hard. If he is by the ground with it punish it with fair, upsmash, or side smash. In the air Fair, up air, or her umbrella depending on your positioning. I have to say make good use of your punishes against him if he whiffs down smash or is about to start up his forward smash and you know you have time to punish it do it.

Off the stage be careful not to get gimped. Peach's recovery isn't bad like it was in brawl. Try to recover low and remember you have toad. He might not be the best counter but it at least shows that you can knock him away if he tries to gimp you.

I haven't had a lot of trouble against him myself. I really just wait and see how metaknight reacts before punishing.

 

[speedguy20]

You can play a reaction game with him. He has good approach options like spaced nairs, dair to chip at your shield or start a combo. He has dash attack and watch out for his down throw as it combos into forward air. Peach does fall out of it at times.

His tornado isn't so bad this time around so watch out for it when you are coming down. Its a good way to punish air dodging. If you manage to avoid it punish it hard. If he is by the ground with it punish it with fair, upsmash, or side smash. In the air Fair, up air, or her umbrella depending on your positioning. I have to say make good use of your punishes against him if he whiffs down smash or is about to start up his forward smash and you know you have time to punish it do it.

Off the stage be careful not to get gimped. Peach's recovery isn't bad like it was in brawl. Try to recover low and remember you have toad. He might not be the best counter but it at least shows that you can knock him away if he tries to gimp you.

I haven't had a lot of trouble against him myself. I really just wait and see how metaknight reacts before punishing.

Alright I'll try this. Thanks!

 

[Nose]

I fought a very well-seasoned Captain Falcon online today, and although I hadn't played Peach in a lil bit, I was surprised at how quickly and strongly he could punish.

From these matches, I have two questions for all of you--

What do you think are Peach's best ledge options against fast characters? Besides roll/normal/attack get-up, of course. Captain is fast enough to punish all ledge options if read, even with the mix-up--he's got good range on his ftilt.

Also, do you know of any way to get out of his uair combos at low percent?! I swear, the guy was good and had decent reads, and great ledge play, but if it weren't for the 0%-50%s he was pullin' out on me I think I would've given him a much better run for his money. One grab at low percent and I'm already cruisin for a bruisin. His uair had such great utility against floaty and tall like Peach that I don't even know if it was escapable to begin with. I was mashing air-dodge to see if that worked, but too much hitstun.

 

[Macchiato]

I fought a very well-seasoned Captain Falcon online today, and although I hadn't played Peach in a lil bit, I was surprised at how quickly and strongly he could punish.

From these matches, I have two questions for all of you--

What do you think are Peach's best ledge options against fast characters? Besides roll/normal/attack get-up, of course. Captain is fast enough to punish all ledge options if read, even with the mix-up--he's got good range on his ftilt.

Also, do you know of any way to get out of his uair combos at low percent?! I swear, the guy was good and had decent reads, and great ledge play, but if it weren't for the 0%-50%s he was pullin' out on me I think I would've given him a much better run for his money. One grab at low percent and I'm already cruisin for a bruisin. His uair had such great utility against floaty and tall like Peach that I don't even know if it was escapable to begin with. I was mashing air-dodge to see if that worked, but too much hitstun.

He's also easily comboed which is something you should take advantage of.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I fought a very well-seasoned Captain Falcon online today, and although I hadn't played Peach in a lil bit, I was surprised at how quickly and strongly he could punish.

From these matches, I have two questions for all of you--

What do you think are Peach's best ledge options against fast characters? Besides roll/normal/attack get-up, of course. Captain is fast enough to punish all ledge options if read, even with the mix-up--he's got good range on his ftilt.

Also, do you know of any way to get out of his uair combos at low percent?! I swear, the guy was good and had decent reads, and great ledge play, but if it weren't for the 0%-50%s he was pullin' out on me I think I would've given him a much better run for his money. One grab at low percent and I'm already cruisin for a bruisin. His uair had such great utility against floaty and tall like Peach that I don't even know if it was escapable to begin with. I was mashing air-dodge to see if that worked, but too much hitstun.

I think you can fall out of upair. Try to recover low using your float and make it hard for him to guess when he should use dair on you. You also can roll back onto the stage, jump over him, or just get up normally. Mix up your options at the ledge. If you mash air dodge your opponent will learn how to read them and delay their next attack. At some point peach should have fell out of that up air combo because she's floaty. When you get him off the stage yourself remember to throw turnips. Use z drop turnips to mess up his recovery sometimes your opponent wont sweet spot the ledge and that's your opportunity to punish. He's easy to combo on. I suggest looking at some of the combo videos posted to find some bnbs.

 

[Macchiato]

@ Dark.Pch are you gonna add scores to the MUs or are you just gonna leave it how it is?

I think we should make a big MU chart.