Patch 1.1.6 Released: Bayonetta Hit With Nerf Hammer

Late Thursday evening, Nintendo released what could possibly be the final patch for Smash 4. The patch notes had been leaked ahead of time by Twitter user @RandomTBush, revealing that only one major change had occurred within the game: Bayonetta had been nerfed as hard as any other character in the history of Smash 4.

PG | ESAM takes a look at Bayonetta's re-worked specials
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Apparently Nintendo had heard the very vocal voices in the community calling for Bayonetta nerfs and decided to rework the character in a major way. The changes seem to be specifically designed to prevent her from setting up and pulling off her ladder combos, which could be devastating for the character. Her D-tilt has had its hitbox significantly reduced. Both Witch-Twist as well as After-Burner Kick have had their SDI multipliers doubled, which should make it significantly easier for opponents to escape. Also worth noting, is that her hitboxes for several iterations of these moves have been shrunk. Her D-air has also received a nerf in the form of a reduction in knockback growth. You can find the full patch notes here.

Top Smashers seem to be going in both directions on whether or not Bayonetta will remain a top-character:

This nerf to Bayonetta was great. I think she is still a really good character. The best? Probably not.

— NAKAT (@darknakat) May 20, 2016

Bayonetta is not top tier anymore. Like, not even close. MAAAAYBE top 20.

— ESAM (Stride Esports) (@imESAM) May 20, 2016

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Bayonetta nerfed a bunch. Still one of the better characters, but nothing like before. I think Rosa/ZSS/Diddy are the best rn, then sheik.

— Jason Zimmerman (@MVG_Mew2King) May 19, 2016

deer nintendoo

i payed 5.99 for bayonetta and you've ruined her

i would like a refund please

yours truely

kuroganne gammsr

— Kurogane Hammer (@KuroganeHammer) May 20, 2016

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What do you think of the impending Bayonetta nerfs? Will she still be viable? Are you disappointed that no other characters were changed? Is this the final Smash 4 patch? Let us know in the comments below.

 

I'm kinda happy about the nerfs. I originally wanted to pick up Bayonetta actually, but dropped her once I realised how overpowered she was, regardless if I was good at her at all or not.
In terms of nerfs, I guess they did a bit too much. I would've by minimum taken the increased SDI from Witch Twist and the KB Angle change from d-After Burner Kick. But they removed the possibility of easy 0-Deaths, so I'm completely fine with that.
I still think she's rather good though. Not like she's completely combo-less now. I'll stand by I'm expecting her to be around High Tier.

 

Looking like Super Nerf Brothers 4

 

If every character played like Bayonetta, Smash 4 would be a pretty exciting game. No offense but this nerf heavy mantra just creates a watered down game. Take away all the exciting stuff please. I want a game where characters are either good at comboing but have poor kill setups, or good kill moves but poor combos. Sounds like they're out to frustrate players from the get go. Why not just make everyone awesome?

Not to mention how they release paid characters that over perform, knowing that it spikes sales because of it's brokenness, while having every intention of nerfing it after making a buck. Sakurai living that dishonest life. I don't respect it.

There are already plenty of characters with awesome movesets plus Smash was never meant to be played like traditional fighters; Bayonetta is just the exception to the rule with a combo game as part of her gimmick. If you want any other game with combo heavy characters then Smash is simply not the game for you.

Also, they don't sell characters with their "brokeness" in mind as their appeal but because it's someone who people wanted. They also have to make sure the character is unique and appealing enough. And they don't know how well the fighter may perform in regards to the rest of the cast since the true test of balance commences once the players start performing crazy stuff. Would you rather they not nerf an unbalanced character so that the meta can staunch?

 

OR...
Bayonetta had some legitimate issues that needed addressing, and now the game can keep developing in a healthy manner.

legit or not, critical opinions will get exaggerated by the majority... after all, who do the devs really listen to when making the character adjustments, the people who want *such-and-such* to be done with *this-or-that* fighter(s)... or a larger group of not-so-patient players who go "*This Character*'s OP, Plz Nerf!"

like I said, it won't matter if the best character at the time gets the nerf hammer, the top spot is ALWAYS a target for complaints of some kind.

 

This is great!

 

I don't have Bayonetta, so these changes don't affect me. However, it's rather sad that no one else got touched, especially the fighters who desperately need buffs.

I guess you could always modify the fighter attributes yourself, but you won't be able to use the attribute changes online against random players.

 

Im happy. She's still a high tier, they just "balanced her"

 

Id put Witch Time above Wario Waft. You can use witch time more often, plus, it's easier to connect. Even if they're not at kill percent, you can get a quick spike or at least rack up damage.

There are more variables to consider with W.Time though.

Wario Waft you either hit, or you don't.

Witch Time isn't like that. You can hit and not be able to do anything about it, along with needing the other player to actually activate it. W.Time itself does absolutely nothing but slow down the opponent from some decreasing time interval. You can hit and get nothing from it, effectively just as bad as whiffing the move the first place.

 

Not to mention how they release paid characters that over perform, knowing that it spikes sales because of it's brokenness, while having every intention of nerfing it after making a buck. Sakurai living that dishonest life. I don't respect it.

When I bought my Wii U and Sm4sh I expected to Hoo-Haa everybody to death, to kill everybody with Bouncing Fish from the middle of the stage and to have no DLC characters at all because 1.0.0 didn't have that!
Let's sue their a****, folks!

 

She still has a bunch of her old combos, the only thing that stifles them is the multiplied SDI factor on some of her moves (and maybe normal DI in some situations, but I'm not sure yet). She also has some good setups from DABK against characters that don't have fast disjointed attacks. Seems like she offers a more balanced risk:reward ratio now, probably as good as any upper-high tier character.

 

Im happy. She's still a high tier, they just "balanced her"

Not anymore, she went way downhill in every catagory, I looked at eventhubs, her ranking is the largest downgrade since sheik

 

Sheik was, by far, the most nerfed character in the game.... bar none.

Nonsense.

Even if you want to argue that Bayo hasn't been nerfed the most in just two patches, the only other comparable contender would be Greninja, not Sheik. Diddy Kong could also feasibly be argued for being somewhat up there, certainly before anyone starts talking about Sheik.

Not anymore, she went way downhill in every catagory, I looked at eventhubs, her ranking is the largest downgrade since sheik

Due to how eventhubs operates, her ranking on that site changing so drastically had significantly more to do with ZeRo's doomsaying than the actual nerf.

 

Not anymore, she went way downhill in every catagory, I looked at eventhubs, her ranking is the largest downgrade since sheik

I'm sorry dude, but. . . going to an EventHubs tier list within the first 4 months of a patch to make a consensus on tier placement is kinda like walking into a college course for Feminazis and taking their word on politics: a lot of people go there and make uninformed, kneejerk emotional reactions to situations that aren't even that bad.

EDIT: Also, the fact that she went from being the best character on that tier list to being almost among some of the worst - when she still has combos that have worked since her release, when she can still 0-to-Death if the opponent doesn't apply SDI to ABK and Witch Twist, and more - is just proof that Bayonetta didn't attract the best crowd.

 

It's the Meta Knight reaction all over again - MK got nerfed from Brawl, everyone immediately shoved him to the bottom, then people showed he still had potential and he rose back up the list (I suppose the buffs he got helped with that too). Let's just see if that last part holds for Bayo like it did for MK. IMO it will - yes, she did lose a good chunk of her combo potential, but you can still do the ladder at low percents and she has enough combo starters to help alleviate the problem somewhat.

 

Both of them used to be literal combo-fiends, and now they are both only speedy attackers with no easy way of killing other characters, being downgraded to near garbage. I'm sorry but every Bayo player, especially 0B is going to dump her.
And even if they still play her, they'll quickly realize that there is no purpose for her anymore.

 

If i sucked playing as bayonetta before then now there's no hope! sigh....
better stick to ryu...

 

Both of them used to be literal combo-fiends, and now they are both only speedy attackers with no easy way of killing other characters, being downgraded to near garbage. I'm sorry but every Bayo player, especially 0B is going to dump her.
And even if they still play her, they'll quickly realize that there is no purpose for her anymore.

That's simply not true. Bayonetta still has a decent amount of her combos left and she's still got some good killing power with her B-air and Smash Attacks during Witch Time. She also has great offstage capability and sports really good attributes for edge guarding. It's kind of insulting for you to say that good Bayo players like 0B will drop her, because you're assuming that they have no sense of dedication and they don't look at a character for their strengths over their gimmicks. That said, if people were to drop her because they saw her as "near garbage" simply because she can't get 30% ~ 50% for cheap and whole stocks off of an easy punish, they would be losing a character that has decent neutral and has - I repeat - some of the best edge guarding and offstage capability in the game. That is the bottom line, kiddo.

 

It's kind of insulting for you to say that good Bayo players like 0B will drop her, because you're assuming that they have no sense of dedication and they don't look at a character for their strengths over their gimmicks.

It's kind of insulting for you to assert knowing more about the character and the implications of how the nerfs actually messed her up than the people who play her.

It's also kind of insulting for you to try and shame someone for effectively saying something you yourself said hours earlier; but hey, as you said, maybe it's all just "proof that Bayonetta didn't attract the best crowd."

Bayonetta still has a decent amount of her combos left.

And I'm sure you can list them if prompted?

Diagonal Dive Kick is seemingly useless.

You can DI below Witch Twist now. Imagine successfully hitting a combo, only for a ZSS to DI below you and immediately up-b you to death.

That said, if people were to drop her because they saw her as "near garbage" simply because she can't get 30% ~ 50% for cheap and whole stocks off of an easy punish, they would be losing a character that has decent neutral and has - I repeat - some of the best edge guarding and offstage capability in the game.

She couldn't 30% - 50% for cheap or take whole stocks off of an easy punish before this, either, so I doubt anyone who picked her up for that reason stayed for long; the data in that pie chart you posted in the other thread would agree with me there. It's not the character's fault because so few people bothered to learn how to play against her, not when the people complaining were largely unable articulate the parts of the character that were legitimately problematic. (Diagonal Dive Kick on shield being absurdly, if not completely, safe, for example)

Edge guarding / Ledge trumping is the only part of her character that was relatively untouched.

I'm honestly under the opinion that the people who keep pointing to W. Time as some holy grail of a move has never actually watched what a Bayonetta does in tournament.

She also has a mediocre neutral. Decent is somewhat too kind. Poor approach options, heel slide that is easily exploitable now that people will actually take the time to learn how it works.

She was not defined by 0-to-death combos that she didn't have. She was defined by being able to string together her specials in the air. That at some percentage (typically around 80% before the combo hit) could lead to a KO was not what defined her. But in order to get rid of the latter, they threw out the former.

Stop implying that if people stop using her it's because she lost KO combos, was the only reason people used her, or that all the patch did was make what she already have "manageable" while keeping the character true. It's both factually untrue and logically inconsistent. The entire design philosophy outlined in her developer overview video, what made her so true to her source material and why so many people voted for her inclusion, has been gutted.

She has weaknesses now that are downright bizarre in how they work without the corresponding strength to match up with it, moves that simply don't work anymore, hitboxes that don't make any sense. There's a future for the character, but it's going to involve utilizing less of her moveset, not more of it.

In a lot of ways she's more like a regression of the Samus buffs.

 

If i sucked playing as bayonetta before then now there's no hope! sigh....
better stick to ryu...

What, Ryu's even harder, given he's the most technical character in the game and has the largest movepool. But if you're really that good guess there's no point in stopping you, well except with Corrin...

 

If every character played like Bayonetta, Smash 4 would be a pretty exciting game.

Nothing more exciting than an auto-pilot ladder of death.

 

Haha, pretending that Witch Time isn't the strongest counter in the game.

Oh, how idiots fly...

 

I find this patch quite upsetting. First of all, those are some severe nerfs to Bayonetta. They appear to have changed a big portion of her play style, and a good amount of her combo game has been either changed or removed. These seem unnecessary and extreme. I feel as though they could have been a bit less harsh on the nerfs, but only nerfed her this much because of the massive amounts of complaints from players who believed that she was "the new Brawl Meta Knight" or "get hit once and you are dead". These are exaggerated claims, as Bayonetta is nowhere near that level of brokenness. I do agree she needed to be nerfed, but not this much.

Destroying her aerial combo game, which is what made Bayonetta unique, seems, to put it bluntly, stupid. They could have easily changed her death combos to kill later, but still keep the aerial combos. However, they just decided to change her aerial combos entirely, therefore removing what made Bayonetta special. Witch Twist and Dive Kick, her two best moves, have been completely overhauled, with the former being more liable to punish and the latter being basically worthless in combos. This alone is quite unnecessary, but then they had to decrease the hitbox of DTilt, one of her best options in the neutral and a fantastic combo starter. I have no idea why this was needed, and seems completely random and unnecessary. They didn't need to change these moves, as doing so also changed the fundamental idea of Bayonetta as an aerial combo character.

But this isn't it, oh no. Not only did they severely change Bayonetta, they decided not to touch anybody else. Nintendo failed to buff characters like Jigglypuff, who desperately needed it, and other characters who needed nerfs, such as Rosaluma. Why dedicate an entire update for just one character, when other characters needed adjustments, and when that one character didn't need so many nerfs?

Nintendo appears to have used this patch to try to please all of the people who decided to hate on Bayonetta after seeing a death combo montage. However, Bayonetta is now just a shell of her former self, and other characters remain in need of change. I am appalled at what has happened here.

Also, now I need to make massive edits to my guide...

Definitely have to agree with all this.

Despite being a top-tier fighter, Bayonetta was nevertheless beatable. As a Robin main, I have defeated many pro Bayonetta players. The trick is playing patient. Quite frankly, lots of gamers are impatient, and since Bayonetta's playstyle is designed to exploit impatience and aggression, lots of people get beat by her. And instead of trying to figure out how to defeat her, people threw a collective hissyfit. And thus, she was nerfed.

That all said, I honestly think Sakurai did this just to shut up all the whiners. [Shrugs] Which is a shame. Whiners are ruiners.

 

I think the nerfs are perfectly fine. Some people act like she was a perfectly fine character when she had her 0-death combo and her op witch time, which is total bs. You couldn't "DI" her attacks in any sense of the word, you could sdi the witch twist with god like reflexes otherwise you were skrewed. She was never a fair character to fight, you got a stock taken because you tried to play the game. One tiny slip up should never cost a stock. She was stupidly broken, and now she got nerfed to the point of being normal and balanced with the cast. Its not like she's dead, you just have to use more of your brain with her now and be creative.

 

Great, now I don't have to keep defending her and half my Sm4sh discussions won't be about Bayo anymore.

 

Bayonetta needed some nerfs such as getting rid of those early death combos, but I think they overdid it, especially considering they gave her literally nothing in return to compensate. I guess only time will tell, but I wouldn't be surprised if she dropped to Luigi-level viability.

I'm mostly just frustrated that they didn't touch any of the other characters.

 

Bayonetta needed some nerfs such as getting rid of those early death combos, but I think they overdid it, especially considering they gave her literally nothing in return to compensate. I guess only time will tell.

I'm mostly just frustrated that they didn't touch any of the other characters.

I agree about the other characters. It was very stupid to dedicate a whole patch update to just one character. This just goes to show that they think the other characters are just fine. Oh well.

I guess i can kiss the hopes of a possible sonic buff goodbye....

 

Well, at least they didn't do anything FE related. 10/10 I guess.

 

Never mind what I said, it spouted from ignorance

 

At least they didn't have any other DLCs we should worry about, well at least any god awful ones. And dude, Sonic is good why hope for a buff?

Definitely have to agree with all this.

Despite being a top-tier fighter, Bayonetta was nevertheless beatable. As a Robin main, I have defeated many pro Bayonetta players. The trick is playing patient. Quite frankly, lots of gamers are impatient, and since Bayonetta's playstyle is designed to exploit impatience and aggression, lots of people get beat by her. And instead of trying to figure out how to defeat her, people threw a collective hissyfit. And thus, she was nerfed.

That all said, I honestly think Sakurai did this just to shut up all the whiners. [Shrugs] Which is a shame. Whiners are ruiners.

1. I agree everyone was whinning about Bayo being the Umbra ***** that she no longer is, and unfortunately I was one of them.
2. A Robin Player beating a Bayo player?! I hope for their sake that this player was at least skilled and not a witch time spammer.

 

I believed that the zero to deaths needed to be addressed but I also agree that they overdid it with the nerfs. I'm going to wait for a while to see how things turns out but remember: if this changes end up a bad as they really are then we just have to keep bringing it up, the people at Nintendo usually take notice when we do, so maybe, just maybe, the balance team might consider patching back some of her previous power. Bayonetta seems like an overall difficult character to balance.

 

I'm confused as to how anyone's saying Bayonetta's "unplayable" now, have you fellows ever played a Bottom Tier character before? They are clouted with weaknesses and their strengths are outshone, and I personally don't think you can say the same thing about Bayonetta. She racks up damage very well, edgeguards wonderfully, has a insane recovery, and really only suffers from her weight and a perceived lack of ability to kill. Which even then there's still her B-air and edgeguarding, I feel like she's fine. These nerfs were justified, and they didn't destroy the character imo.

It's rather amusing that if Bayo had started at the same power level as, say, D3, with no guaranteed kill setups, few combos, no kill throws, glitchy moves, no fast options, extremely slow air and ground speed, and the same density as your average black hole, no one would have cared. It's only comparing 1.1.5 Bayo to 1.1.6 that people start complaining.

 

How do people think the nerfs were overdone though man seriously. No more 0-death. Combos are finally SDI able, like you can actually do it now, and you can DI the ABK. Along with hitbox size reductions. Whats so bad now honestly? People can get out of combos now if they try? She's just like any other character then. All you need to do now is be unexpected with your attacks and movements and use more of her moveset then just 4 of them now. If anything, this should encourage people to explore more about bayonetta and how she can be used instead of trigger all this butthurted whining. Im actually inclined to check her out now because she's fair to play against. There used to be many mu's she completely dominated with almost no chance for victory for the other characters (i.e fast fallers, and characters with large hurt boxes). She forced you to play in only one style, haaaarrrrdd bait. If she approached, she got rewarded, if she camped she got rewarded, if she BAITED she got rewarded. She had almost no weakness wtf are you guys kidding me?

And dont even talk about the increased lag from aerial abuse. That wasn't a practical way to punish her from attacking you in the first place, by the time you reached her, you were either killed off the top or witch timed damn it.

 

Nothing more exciting than an auto-pilot ladder of death.

He should've said if everyone was about the same power level as bayo.

 

How do people think the nerfs were overdone though man seriously. No more 0-death. Combos are finally SDI able, like you can actually do it now, and you can DI the ABK. Along with hitbox size reductions. Whats so bad now honestly? People can get out of combos now if they try? She's just like any other character then. All you need to do now is be unexpected with your attacks and movements and use more of her moveset then just 4 of them now. If anything, this should encourage people to explore more about bayonetta and how she can be used instead of trigger all this butthurted whining. Im actually inclined to check her out now because she's fair to play against. There used to be many mu's she completely dominated with almost no chance for victory for the other characters (i.e fast fallers, and characters with large hurt boxes). She forced you to play in only one style, haaaarrrrdd bait. If she approached, she got rewarded, if she camped she got rewarded, if she BAITED she got rewarded. She had almost no weakness wtf are you guys kidding me?

And dont even talk about the increased lag from aerial abuse. That wasn't a practical way to punish her from attacking you in the first place, by the time you reached her, you were either killed off the top or witch timed damn it.

Her results shown that she was just a normal top tier

All this theorycrafting and exaggeration is just trash really.

 

if any of you didn't check SHES IN 28th TIER

thank god i didn't get her

 

if any of you didn't check SHES IN 28th TIER

thank god i didn't get her

I don't think we can really say she's 28th yet, Eventhubs is kind of knee jerky and is near universally regarded as unreliable for a Tier List. Also, if you don't mind me asking, I'm confused as to what would be so bad about being at 28th spot, that's basically middle of the road? Like I get that it'd be a downgrade from what she originally was, but from my understanding it really isn't that bad a spot?

 

But in all seriousness we can all agree that at this point, Bayo just sucks, and may or may not be a waste of money. Watch the next patch there gonna focus only on Cloud, if not Corrin.

 

But in all seriousness we can all agree that at this point, Bayo just sucks, and may or may not be a waste of money. Watch the next patch there gonna focus only on Cloud, if not Corrin.

Implying people only buy characters to win. And here I thought pay to win was supposed to be reviled...

 

But in all seriousness we can all agree that at this point, Bayo just sucks, and may or may not be a waste of money. Watch the next patch there gonna focus only on Cloud, if not Corrin.

Cloud and Corrin are fine.
On to Bayonetta: she is still viable. Is she broken anymore? No. She still has some combos, and the patch is like 3 days old. Give the Bayonetta mains some time in the lab to find some new combos. She doesn't suck. She has garunteed kills off a correctly used Witch Time punish.

 

But in all seriousness we can all agree that at this point, Bayo just sucks, and may or may not be a waste of money. Watch the next patch there gonna focus only on Cloud, if not Corrin.

No we cant because people are whining so much they arent labbing to figure out if she really does or not.