Paranoiafia: Game Over

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

After re-reading things from 177 onwards, Gheb, I did not develop any opinions towards Scumfever being mafia. (edit: that is sort of vague. I mean to say I dont think he is mafia.)

I did, however, decide in my re-read that if I were to compromise and get off of Handorin's lynch, the only other one I would go for right now is Riddle. You are correct in saying that Riddle is unhelpful. He first bothered me with his pseudo No Lynch sentiment, but then when he denied what I inferred from his post, he didn't come up with his own case to alternate from a No Lynch opinion. I also do not want to forget Riddle's strange stance towards Macman (in summary, "I find you scummy for doing things that I know to happen when you are town"), and the fact that I could not pin him to any opinions whatsoever until I asked him in 116.

In short, I would unvote Handorin and vote Riddle if you guys continue to stonewall me on what I see as an absolutely necessary lynch.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

completely forgot riddle is in the game. It always bothers me when that happens.

unvote
i need to reread as well
riddle who is the play?

 

[Riddle]

Hand orin

 

[Handorin]

Pierre: (To lazy to edit the quote)

I've faked watcher before to get a mafia lynched.
Tom has faked information in one of my games to get a lynch in my game.
EE hinted at having a power, despite not having one, to get killed at night in my game.

And that's all I can bring my brain to remember right now. But faking info has worked before.

Hmm, you are right. I did forget to mention why I flexed N0. Simply put, I have a big ego and would have liked to think I might have been a target. In hindsight, it wasn't the greatest idea in the world, but I have no regrets. My N1 logic still stands though. I was hoping my breadcrumbing might make me a target. However, it doesn't mean I can't flex N0 if I was "following that strategy of "fake claim cop and flex to kill scum,"".


On another subject: My main concern is whether this is lylo or not. 3 mafia might be pushing it, but 3 mafia in a 10 man game is kinda balanced with at least 2 PGOs. But on the other hand, my gut wants to believe it's only 2 mafia. Which leaves us one ML and puts us at lylo tomorrow.

 

[Kirby King]

Day 2 Vote Count
Handorin (2): Marshy, Pierre the Scarecrow
junglefever (1): Gheb_01

Not voting: Macman, Riddle, junglefever, Handorin

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If you think that Scumfever is attempting to make Handorin look like an easy lynch, and then move the lynch onto SwordsR, then it would follow that you see a Scumfever+Handorin pattern. Do you?

No, I don't. Buddying with somebody to incriminate him in case of a scum flip isn't the least common mafia tactic. Especially when it's Handorin, who's prone to such traps due to his reputation.

If so, why are you so hesitant to include Handorin in your lynch pool?

Never said he wasn't there. But either Scumfever or Riddle needs to die asap because they're scummier than Hando imo.

And why do you continually state that the case against him is nothing more than an extension of your "Rule #1?"

This is in regards to Marshy who votes him on principle, not logic.

Also, these quotes are all by me, taken from my persistence against Handorin. You asked what there is besides Rule #1. Please reread what I have said, just as I reread what you have said against Scumfever. They are in reverse order thanks to multiquoting, but they are all either directly towards Handorin or towards another player involving Handorin. They are the most important ones, I think, so you don't have to backtrack.

*wall of quotes*

By now, then, you should have a good idea what exactly I have against him and why he really, really should die.

No, I don't. I see a reaching debate between two people, of which one chooses to be stubborn and tunnelvisioned and the other one is pointless to talk with. Hando will always say things that will rub you the wrong way and trying to argue with him is an uphill battle and usually a waste of time due to his overly joky nature.

In a nutshell you call Handorin useless, correct? So what have you done in this game except arguing with the player who got the most heat in the first place? You're incredibily tunnelvisioned in this game.

After re-reading things from 177 onwards, Gheb, I did not develop any opinions towards Scumfever being mafia. (edit: that is sort of vague. I mean to say I dont think he is mafia.)

Which of my points do you disagree with? Be more specific, please.

I did, however, decide in my re-read that if I were to compromise and get off of Handorin's lynch, the only other one I would go for right now is Riddle. You are correct in saying that Riddle is unhelpful. He first bothered me with his pseudo No Lynch sentiment, but then when he denied what I inferred from his post, he didn't come up with his own case to alternate from a No Lynch opinion. I also do not want to forget Riddle's strange stance towards Macman (in summary, "I find you scummy for doing things that I know to happen when you are town"), and the fact that I could not pin him to any opinions whatsoever until I asked him in 116.

In short, I would unvote Handorin and vote Riddle if you guys continue to stonewall me on what I see as an absolutely necessary lynch.

I'm down for a Riddle wagon. Just wanted to mention that a lot of the stuff you said could also just be poor town play. Junglefever posts lots of fluff, coasts a lot and contradicted himself. That's scummy.

Hand orin

Riddle, I'm sorry for this question but are you an idiot? Just yesterDay I explained why scum always pushes for the most convenient lynch and now you do exactly that without posting a reason? Scum or dumb? Do you realize that everybody has pointed out somewhere that he wouldn't mind Hando dead? So where are his scumbuddies?

On another subject: My main concern is whether this is lylo or not. 3 mafia might be pushing it, but 3 mafia in a 10 man game is kinda balanced with at least 2 PGOs. But on the other hand, my gut wants to believe it's only 2 mafia. Which leaves us one ML and puts us at lylo tomorrow.

My main concern is that you are not concerned with scumhunting. Who's your #1 suspicion and why?

@Marshy, Macman, Riddle

Thoughts on Scumfever? That guy needs to die like now imo.

 

[Handorin]

Especially when it's Handorin, who's prone to such traps due to his reputation.

My main concern is that you are not concerned with scumhunting. Who's your #1 suspicion and why?

Apparently you still haven't understood scum hunting != typing everything out. Anyways

So far I'd make it a group of:
Jungle
Marshy
Riddle

I'm hesitant to throw in Pierre, but at this point I'm trying to dismiss it as a townie being blown away at my playstyle. Then you (Gheb). Then Macman.

Yes, I know that is everyone, it's a list of most likely to least likely. First 3 not so much, but just as a group.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Gheb if you've ever read a book before, you'd know about something called context. Now, take a look at 192. I say "Or it'd be lynching him because he's been unhelpful, WHICH MANY HAVE CLAIMED." First of all we are arguing over Swords v Hando. I am claiming that Hando has been more helpful RELATIVE to Swords, which you would know due to the context of the argument which YOU were in. Secondly, i have the statement which i have capitalized, which says while I personally don't think Hando has been as unhelpful as normal, many others do, and it would be a good way for scum to jump on it as well.

 

[Riddle]

Riddle, I'm sorry for this question but are you an idiot? Just yesterDay I explained why scum always pushes for the most convenient lynch and now you do exactly that without posting a reason? Scum or dumb? Do you realize that everybody has pointed out somewhere that he wouldn't mind Hando dead? So where are his scumbuddies?

Since when are you the ultimate mafia player? Sure scum pushes for easy lynch, but believe it or not town pushes for scummy players to get lynched which is what I'm doing. Disconnection method doesn't work, especially day 2. Ever heard of bussing?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Hmm, you are right. I did forget to mention why I flexed N0. Simply put, I have a big ego and would have liked to think I might have been a target. In hindsight, it wasn't the greatest idea in the world, but I have no regrets.

did you not assume that the scumbags would go off meta n0 and put you on the "keep alive at all costs list" because your recent play has been a combination of do-nothingness and self-hammering?

 

[Handorin]

did you not assume that the scumbags would go off meta n0 and put you on the "keep alive at all costs list" because your recent play has been a combination of do-nothingness and self-hammering?

If I self hammer, I would have been dead already.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb if you've ever read a book before, you'd know about something called context. Now, take a look at 192. I say "Or it'd be lynching him because he's been unhelpful, WHICH MANY HAVE CLAIMED." First of all we are arguing over Swords v Hando. I am claiming that Hando has been more helpful RELATIVE to Swords, which you would know due to the context of the argument which YOU were in. Secondly, i have the statement which i have capitalized, which says while I personally don't think Hando has been as unhelpful as normal, many others do, and it would be a good way for scum to jump on it as well.

Relativizing contradictory statements doesn't make them correct. The fact that the swords lynch was way too easy for scum to advocate remains the same. This post is a waste because you're completely missing the point. It's not about "it's easier for scum to lynch hando than swords". It's about "it's really freaking easy to advocate the swords lynch. Perfect opportunity for scum". After all, the swords lynch did actually happen and he was town. It was a very easy lynch to advocate without being suspicious and that's all there is to it. No "but Hando is easier to lynch" nonsense. Swords was an overly comfortable lynch that actually happened. It's only logic to assume one of his voters to be scum regardless of hando.

If we're lynching anybody for being useless then it should be you and nobody else. You haven't done anything in terms of scumhunting, you don't commit to anything and you post nothing but worthless fluff. You never voice any suspicions. You just hopped on the swords wagon because he was playing the way he played - bad townie play. You don't use your vote wisely and all your posts are vacuum. If you're town - which I highly doubt - then you're the kind of player that scum keeps around until the end because you're blatantly useless and put 0 thought behind your vote.

Who are your suspicions? You said it's easiest to advocate the hando lynch, correct? Does that make you suspicious of Pierre, Marshy and Yedi? Who is the most suspicious and why? Do you agree that Swords wagon was scum-infected? Play this game or do us a favour and die.

Since when are you the ultimate mafia player? Sure scum pushes for easy lynch, but believe it or not town pushes for scummy players to get lynched which is what I'm doing. Disconnection method doesn't work, especially day 2. Ever heard of bussing?

Ultimate player? Are you serious? I'm not asking more from you than to see the obvious. What lynch are you pushing? Posting a one-word post "Handorin" doesn't make you push a good lynch at all, it only makes you look ignorant to everything that happens apart from it. If you were pushing for a good lynch for town then you'd probably hesitate to make a post like that. So far you have pushed for the most obvious mislynch which at the same time was the easiest lynch for scum to push. And right now you're doing exactly the same thing. Have you not learned anything from D1 and what happened to swords? Do you really want the same thing to happen again by blindly going for the next "obvious" lynch? How about looking at the other players instead for once? How about question people who seem to think similar to you and what actually happens in this game?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Meh, I just realized that we're probably boned if Riddle and scumfever are both town. We really should lynch one of those two toDay.

 

[Riddle]

Actually I wasn't pushing a lynch at all, I was answering a question.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Actually I wasn't pushing a lynch at all, I was answering a question.

And when will you start being useful?

- Can you tell me something that makes Hando suspicious that hasn't been said at least 3 times already?
- Who are you suspicious of except Hando? What do you think about my case vs Scumfever?
- Thoughts on Pierre? He said he's suspicious of you and so did I. How long will you keep ignoring that?
- Why did you push the swords lynch? Did you never consider that it just could've been bad townie play or are you scumbag advocating a very comfortable lynch?

@Scumfever:

- Who's the play? Don't start coasting again. You should discuss even if you're not called out on.
- Why did you push the swords lynch? Did you never consider that it just could've been bad townie play or are you scumbag advocating a very comfortable lynch?
- Thoughts on Hando? Do you agree with me that tunneling against him is unhealthy for this game's progress?
- Advocating a Hando lynch is comfortabe accordingg to you. Does that make you suspicious of his wagoners? Riddle, Yedi, Pierre and Marshy are all on that wagon and neither you nor me are against his lynch. Who's the most suspicious and why?

@Marshy:

- Can you stop being tunneled and tell us what you think about other things than Hando?
- What do you think about my case against scumfever?
- Who's scum except Handorin? Do you believe his claim or not?
- Do you agree with me that the swords wagon yesterDay was scum-infected?

@Handorin

- Care to elaborate on your suspicions?
- Why did you claim now? Don't you think it was a little early?

@Macman

- Why Pierre? And why Hando?
- Thoughts on scumfever/Riddle? YesterDay you said you're OK with lynching Riddle (or something like that). Changed your mind?
- Scumlist please?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Gheb I've seen your questions I'll get back to you I have things to do today for once.

 

[Kirby King]

Day 2 Vote Count
Handorin (2): Marshy, Pierre the Scarecrow
junglefever (1): Gheb_01

Not voting: Macman, Riddle, junglefever, Handorin

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

A deadline has been set for Wednesday, December 2 at 11:59:59 PM ET.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i've been thinking that one of scumfever and riddle is scum too. i'll look back and find out why i was under that impression. but ugh...letting hando live. more later

 

[Riddle]

And when will you start being useful?

- Can you tell me something that makes Hando suspicious that hasn't been said at least 3 times already?

No. But that doesn't make him less scummy.

- Who are you suspicious of except Hando? What do you think about my case vs Scumfever?

I can see Scumfever being scum. I still feel Hando is the lynch though.

- Thoughts on Pierre? He said he's suspicious of you and so did I. How long will you keep ignoring that?

Pierre said he was suspicious of me? Where? Did he actually make a case? I think Pierre seems like town.

- Why did you push the swords lynch? Did you never consider that it just could've been bad townie play or are you scumbag advocating a very comfortable lynch?

I pushed the swords lynch because I thought he was scum. Of course that ocurred to me but I thought it was likely that he was scum.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

please prod pierre

 

[Kirby King]

Pierre the Scarecrow has been prodded.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

okiedokie gheb lets dance

@Scumfever:

- Who's the play? Don't start coasting again. You should discuss even if you're not called out on.

Hmm. I'd have to say I think Pierre for pressing SO hard for the Hando lynch, it's almost beyond tunnelling.

- Why did you push the swords lynch? Did you never consider that it just could've been bad townie play or are you scumbag advocating a very comfortable lynch?

Of course I considered the fact that it could be terribad townie play. He made a safe claim and I wasn't really comfortable wiht the Hando lynch.

- Thoughts on Hando? Do you agree with me that tunneling against him is unhealthy for this game's progress?

I hate playing with Hando, I don't have much more to say than that. I think that tunnelling against someone for two whole days isn't good for town.

- Advocating a Hando lynch is comfortabe accordingg to you. Does that make you suspicious of his wagoners? Riddle, Yedi, Pierre and Marshy are all on that wagon and neither you nor me are against his lynch. Who's the most suspicious and why?

I allready stated my schpiel on Pierre.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

i've been thinking that one of scumfever and riddle is scum too. i'll look back and find out why i was under that impression. but ugh...letting hando live. more later

Heh, I can imagine how you feel. I'd bit myself in the *** if Hando was scum again -_-

No. But that doesn't make him less scummy.

Obviously, I'm asking you to be way more specific. What makes him scummy in the first place? No more vague answers please. I want you to point out in detail, why he's scummy and which of his posts help you to point it out.

I can see Scumfever being scum. I still feel Hando is the lynch though.

Same request. If you want to be credible than you shouldn't just post one-liners that don't really answer my questions.

Pierre said he was suspicious of me? Where? Did he actually make a case? I think Pierre seems like town.

241

I pushed the swords lynch because I thought he was scum. Of course that ocurred to me but I thought it was likely that he was scum.

That doesn't explain anything. You're about as informative as a brickwall.

Hmm. I'd have to say I think Pierre for pressing SO hard for the Hando lynch, it's almost beyond tunnelling.

K

Of course I considered the fact that it could be terribad townie play. He made a safe claim and I wasn't really comfortable wiht the Hando lynch.

And Pierre?

Unvote vote Riddle

 

[#HBC | Mac]

guys rule #1 voting hando would have clearly been the best play. I'd rather lose with hando as town than hando as mafia.

i have like no suspicions. well thats not true... it's more like everyone is suspicious to me except for like one person. I'm kinda in a phase where I don't wanna do anything, except just lynch people and see what happens...

this is a terrible post but i dont really know what to say.

jungle/riddle? iono, jungle was scummy for a few reasons, but at the same time has done some stuff to make me think hes town. riddle... i have no idea what he stood on anything in this game, and can't remember why I would say I'd be ok with his lynch. Guess I have to get a reread in.

hando? rule #1... tho I'm starting to get a somewhat town vibe from him. sigh
pierre? eh I forgot. but i had a reason

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

No, I don't. I see a reaching debate between two people, of which one chooses to be stubborn and tunnelvisioned and the other one is pointless to talk with. Hando will always say things that will rub you the wrong way and trying to argue with him is an uphill battle and usually a waste of time due to his overly joky nature.

In a nutshell you call Handorin useless, correct? So what have you done in this game except arguing with the player who got the most heat in the first place? You're incredibily tunnelvisioned in this game.

That is fairly frustrating. The whole reason I am arguing with Handorin is because he has been unhelpful, possibly anti-helpful - refused to discuss what was important in favor of chiming in about the weird stuff, only responded to the thread when he was under my pressure (and then subsequently was called helpful by Scumfever for responding to my pressure, where the absence of the pressure would have led to an absence of content), and he didn't even vote. It's not just that he's saying things that rub me the wrong way. I don't really see how you can ascribe these problems to his "playstyle," when this isn't a playstyle at all... its a "watchstyle."

To the second thing, that is also kinda disheartening. I've worried about that myself, that I've been too focused on Handorin (though each time he posts it reminds me why I am that way), and as such I've tried to broaden my scope. So much, in fact, that I think Riddle is scum, and I said that outrightly in my previous post. And then you said I was tunneling after I said I had more than one prospect?

Since when are you the ultimate mafia player? Sure scum pushes for easy lynch, but believe it or not town pushes for scummy players to get lynched which is what I'm doing. Disconnection method doesn't work, especially day 2. Ever heard of bussing?

Did this not rub anyone else the extremely wrong way? Riddle says nothing at all.

please prod pierre

Pierre the Scarecrow has been prodded.

Marshy, am I not contributing enough for you? I feel like I'm contributing enough, and I am as regularly as possible. Yet I've been prodded twice, both I think by your insistence, and if I am prodded a third time, the PM said I could be replaced or modkilled. When you requested my prod and Kirby King prodded me, Macman had not posted since directly after my last post, but he isn't in danger of being modkilled. =/

Hmm. I'd have to say I think Pierre for pressing SO hard for the Hando lynch, it's almost beyond tunnelling.

Of course I considered the fact that it could be terribad townie play. He made a safe claim and I wasn't really comfortable wiht the Hando lynch.

I hate playing with Hando, I don't have much more to say than that. I think that tunnelling against someone for two whole days isn't good for town.

I allready stated my schpiel on Pierre.

Read exactly what I said to Gheb, I guess. I wonder if you would be open to criticizing what you have done in this game.

unvote vote Riddle

 

[~ Gheb ~]

jungle/riddle? iono, jungle was scummy for a few reasons, but at the same time has done some stuff to make me think hes town. riddle... i have no idea what he stood on anything in this game, and can't remember why I would say I'd be ok with his lynch. Guess I have to get a reread in.

Hop the Riddle wagon, silly. Or jungle. I'm down for either wagon. If all else fails we can lynch Hando but I fear we get little info from a Hando town-flip...

That is fairly frustrating. The whole reason I am arguing with Handorin is because he has been unhelpful, possibly anti-helpful - refused to discuss what was important in favor of chiming in about the weird stuff, only responded to the thread when he was under my pressure (and then subsequently was called helpful by Scumfever for responding to my pressure, where the absence of the pressure would have led to an absence of content), and he didn't even vote. It's not just that he's saying things that rub me the wrong way. I don't really see how you can ascribe these problems to his "playstyle," when this isn't a playstyle at all... its a "watchstyle."

How is that more "anti-helpful" than Riddle and Scumfever pushing for a fairly predictable mislynch and now refusing to give helpful input (especially Riddle)? Which of their contributions give you the feel that they're more helpful than Handorin and why? Obviously, there must be another reason beyond his unhelpfulness (which in my opinion is rather little relative to Riddle/Scumfever) that made you chose Hando above all players.

To the second thing, that is also kinda disheartening. I've worried about that myself, that I've been too focused on Handorin (though each time he posts it reminds me why I am that way), and as such I've tried to broaden my scope. So much, in fact, that I think Riddle is scum, and I said that outrightly in my previous post. And then you said I was tunneling after I said I had more than one prospect?

Having "more than one prospect" doesn't help if we only get to see your view on one of them. Saying "Riddle is scummy too" in once doesn't make you less tunnelvisioned anyway.
It's just as useless as Hando saying that "not posting suspicions doesn't mean he's not scumhunting." To everybody except himself to result is exactly the same. This also applies to how you played so far. If you have other prospects than Handorin then you should be more vocal about those cases if you're really that worried about being tunneled yourself.

Did this not rub anyone else the extremely wrong way? Riddle says nothing at all.

This is how Riddle played all game. Read the answers he gave to my questions. "Yeah, I think swords was scummy ... I considered that he could be town but I thought he was scummy." It doesn't tell us anything and it doesn't do him any favours. The only thing we know about him is that he not only pushed a mislynch but also one that's way too easy for the mafia to advocate when in actuallity it was just poor townie play.

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

The question of "why Hando, Pierre?" should be easily answerable just by rereading. He initially changed the discussion to a weird cult direction and subsequently wouldn't respond to my questions. You can't really ask "why not Scumfever and Riddle?" there because they didn't do anything wrong or do anything to tick my interest, except at that time Riddle also called Macman scummy for things "Macman does also as town" which was very weird. Also, I really do stand by the fact that when you say Handorin's helpfulness has been more than Riddle/Scumfever, it has been because I have actively tried to drag him onto the lynch platform, which has forced him to respond to everything I say and therefore contribute. That really bothered me when Scumfever said Handorin looked good, you can look back and see that yourself.

And, uh, okay Gheb, I will be more vocal with my suspects. Except that I have been as vocal as possible, and after a re-read I devoted an entire post to Riddle, and I have regularly chimed in when I find something Riddle does to be odd. So, I already am vocalizing my suspects, and I guess you're just asking me to lay off Handorin, which would make sense because your two suspects are Scumfever and Riddle, and not Handorin.

I'd like to hear what Scumfever thinks about Riddle, because he just focused on me in his last post, and there seems to be a very solid Riddle v. Scumfever divide.

Also, Macman, your last post was kind of vague and I'm sure you know that. I am still totally for a Handorin lynch, but unless you (Macman) and Marshy also step up and vote for Handorin, I do not see it happening, and I see the lynch moving towards either Scumfever or Riddle. So, can you be more specific about Handorin, Scumfever, and Riddle?

 

[Handorin]

I'm pretty satisfied with Pierre's latests post.

Jungle just keeps dis-settling me every post. I'd much rather lynch him than Riddle, but he isn't far off either. I generally see better play from him.

Vote: Jungle

 

[Kirby King]

Day 2 Vote Count
Riddle (2): Gheb_01, Pierre the Scarecrow
Handorin (1): Marshy
junglefever (1): Handorin

Not voting: Macman, Riddle, junglefever

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

A deadline has been set for Wednesday, December 2 at 11:59:59 PM ET.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i'm still okay lynching hando. he's been all noise

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Unvote Vote Scumfever

 

[#HBC | Mac]

unvote. vote: scumfever
marshy, will you do the honors?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

wow. fos macman you know better than to let hando live. MORE HANDO VOTES

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No need to hammer in this game. We can have people get deadlined so we should use the time.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

gawd yu guys are so whack

quick lynching is fun!

 

[#HBC | marshy]

hop on the hando wagon already

 

[#HBC | Mac]

but yur the only one on it. if yu vote jungle we can lynch someone today!

 

[#HBC | marshy]

pierre is salivating over hando dying just like i am so that's 3/4

 

[Kirby King]

The town continues to debate. With each passing minute, tensions rise, and under the heat of the sun above, the townspeople are forced to decide who they trust.

Suddenly, a gunshot pierces the air. Everyone drops down for cover, but no more shots follow. As everyone rises, you see one person still lying on the ground.

As you all rush over to his body, you realize soon enough that it's already too late. Gheb_01 (town) has been shot to death.

Day 2 continues.


Day 2 Vote Count
No votes.

Not voting: Marshy, Macman, Riddle, junglefever, Pierre the Scarecrow, Handorin

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

A deadline has been set for Wednesday, December 2 at 11:59:59 PM ET.

 

[Handorin]

You guys are cool.

Back on the Jungle wagon plz?

Vote: Jungle