Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[GimR]

you're forgetting that the up-throw frame trap is guaranteed where as the dash attack only works if the Snake techs in place or doesn't tech. Plus he has to be on the side you guess he's gonna be on.

 

[Today]

To beat snake:

Spam UpB and Bair
Juggle with Nair and Uair
Time Smashes to kill on landing
Oh... and be patient

Emphasis on the be patient part.


Don't always try and approach Snake and become hasty. He'll run into your bairs, and his grenades, etc.

Also, agree with GIMR. Uthrow is really good with Snake. Especially since he's much easier to deal with in the air. Uthrow, nair, uairs, = %%%

Also, tourney this weekend! I think I want to try and play competitively again! x'= Probably will use mk a bit, though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

you're forgetting that the up-throw frame trap is guaranteed where as the dash attack only works if the Snake techs in place or doesn't tech. Plus he has to be on the side you guess he's gonna be on.

G&W's D-throw is actually very hit confirmable when his opponent does not tech. If you're going to punish with something fast like DA or Jab, you don't actually need to guess which side Snake or any character lands on if he doesn't techroll. It's entirely feasible to react to this and punish him consistently.

Yes you do have to read the techroll to punish it, but the point is the reward you get from D-throwing Snake is largely underestimated. Putting Snake above your for mostly free N-airs and U-airs is great, but that alone generally isn't going to get you kills easily (unless you actually save U-air for kills, though landing the 2nd hit is tricky).

A G&W that understands the implementation of all his followups I believe can make his D-throw trap close to a 50/50 mixup in his favor. G&W's ability to juggle is strong mainly for resets and chipping on damage with N-air. D-throw has utility even or especially against Snake since it opens up completely different options.

Also, more important and powerful than getting Snake above you is getting him offstage.

 

[Alphicans]

Snake above you gives opportunities to land fair, smashes, dtilt on landing etc. It can do what dthrow does + more. Dthrow just has more promising results if it works. Teching is extremely easy though :/.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You have to read B reversals especially at high percents. Landing sweetspot F-air on Snake is kinda difficult if he's descending above stage (fairly easy to do though if he's recovering offstage and in range). Landing Smashes requires you to read aerials/airdodges depending on spacing. D-tilt on landing is good but still somewhat tricky given you need to read B reversals.

Yeah teching is easy. Doesn't change that being good at techchasing is VERY profitable in different ways than juggling.

 

[Rizen]

Also, tourney this weekend! I think I want to try and play competitively again! x'= Probably will use mk a bit, though.

Good luck!

I played some dittos and was clueless what the metagame was. Fortunately the opponent was a newbie too. He/she Dthrow-ed>jab>grab>repeat several times. Finally I jabbed between the jab and grab to break it. I'll have a few replays soon. Also a Diddy owned and 2 stocked me; man that's hard.

 

[overgamer]

Good luck!

I played some dittos and was clueless what the metagame was. Fortunately the opponent was a newbie too. He/she Dthrow-ed>jab>grab>repeat several times. Finally I jabbed between the jab and grab to break it. I'll have a few replays soon. Also a Diddy owned and 2 stocked me; man that's hard.

Playing against Diddys that know that the **** they are doing is indeed really hard. I guess it's important to mess with his banana setups as much as possible. Try to always catch any banana he want to put on the field.

Good luck day for tourney.

 

[Exdeath]

You have to read B reversals especially at high percents. Landing sweetspot F-air on Snake is kinda difficult if he's descending above stage (fairly easy to do though if he's recovering offstage and in range). Landing Smashes requires you to read aerials/airdodges depending on spacing. D-tilt on landing is good but still somewhat tricky given you need to read B reversals.

Yeah teching is easy. Doesn't change that being good at techchasing is VERY profitable in different ways than juggling.

Just punish Snake's landing.

 

[kaak]

sup guys just made a small mixclip beacuse i was ill this days and totaly bored

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej4MAYTpgwA

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

sup guys just made a small mixclip beacuse i was ill this days and totaly bored

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej4MAYTpgwA

That's too good.

 

[Rizen]

sup guys just made a small mixclip beacuse i was ill this days and totaly bored

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej4MAYTpgwA

Sweet! Lol @ triple KO from the 9.

Do you know someone who can help edit clips? Or will you? I have a friend who's making a Link AT video guide and needs a video savvy person's help. Leave me a message if you can help him.

 

[Grey Belnades]

Oh, all this discussion has made my head hurt. >_>

Good luck in your weekend tourney, Today.

sup guys just made a small mixclip beacuse i was ill this days and totaly bored

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej4MAYTpgwA

Judgments, judgments everywhere!

Mixclip was too good.

 

[PantyRaider08]

Vinnie is gonna concentrate on ICS from now on. What G&W do we look up to now? I am really bummed about this. : ( Although, this does give me a bigger drive to get better. There are days where I just wanna give up on GW and main someone else, but instead I look at the accomplishments Vinnie and Zac made. It would be nice to place as high as them one day. Hopefully that day will come. I'm not giving up.

 

[Splice]

As high as UTD in a national, or would you just like to win a regional? Both are hard, since you live in Texas which has a pretty high skill level iirc

You shouldnt really need someone to look up to
Your own personal development and communication through these boards (even if they are dead) should be all you need, although I admit well edited combo videos using my main with great music (such as Nined Blind) are very inspiring and provoked development in my game I admit.

I should make a combo video...

Anyhow goodluck Panty.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Even if you're not that good (like me), making a video for fun can help you improve your game. As you sift through replays, you learn a lot about your playstyle and your character, and what does and does not work.

 

[PentaSalia]

I think this is the 3rd time Vinnie's said that lol


Also i feel the same way panty:<
The last two sent.

 

[Rizen]

All the character boards I regularly visit are proud to play that character. Play who you want, even with bad MUs and so on.

--------------------
What are good ways to start attack chains? My chain setups are too predictable. Specifically air juggling ones.
Also, how do G&Ws use bair (like reverse aerial rush)? I Fair more then I should because G&W's facing the opponent. Is there a trick to using several Bairs consistently?

My G&W is improving and surpasses my other secondaries now

 

[A2ZOMG]

I took 3rd in a tourney and beat ViceGrip. There was also a fairly legit IC main called Kirds and I somehow beat him in losers bracket as well despite the fact he was my first match and loss in winners.

I repped Mario, G&W, and Falco at this tournament. http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=11320

All the character boards I regularly visit are proud to play that character. Play who you want, even with bad MUs and so on.

--------------------
What are good ways to start attack chains? My chain setups are too predictable. Specifically air juggling ones.
Also, how do G&Ws use bair (like reverse aerial rush)? I Fair more then I should because G&W's facing the opponent. Is there a trick to using several Bairs consistently?

My G&W is improving and surpasses my other secondaries now

For G&W, starting chains is more about having good spacing, and maintaining good spacing. He doesn't need to take too many risks to "chain" moves just because a lot of his moves are so good. Don't try to be too fancy with juggles. Just maintain smart positioning since G&W's juggles almost always perfectly reset people into more juggles. Also it's worth keeping in mind that Jab and D-tilt actually are amazing moves for setting up strings. Jab leads to grab, and D-tilt leads to easy edgeguards.

My use of F-air and B-air differs between matchups, but depending on the matchup either is my primary spacing tool. In my opinion, I'm pretty smart about making it difficult for people to punish my B-airs with SDI. I'll mix up my timing and fastfalling with B-airs, and I'll even fullhop rising B-air if my opponent is tall or in the air, which is pretty resistant to people trying to SDI upwards. In most matchups besides really small characters and Sheik though I believe F-air is a more valuable spacing tool given that most characters can be caught by fullhop F-airs while standing.

But G&W's moves aren't limited to just that. ALL of G&W's moves are in some way valuable for edgeguarding. Especially against Olimar, you should consider edgeguarding with B-air. Depending on how it's timed, B-air has a tendency to outlast Olimar's whistle armor. Then there is the fact that G&W users seem to forget that ledgedrop B-air covers a lot of options.

 

[GimR]

It isn't possible to hit confirm tech in place with dash attack.

That is all

 

[UTDZac]

It isn't possible to hit confirm tech in place with dash attack.

That is all

Wut?

10confused

 

[GimR]

Wut?

10confused

AZOMG is claiming that is better to dthrow Snake instead of up -throwign him because it's possible to react to him teching in place or not teching and dash attacking him for doing so. I'm trying to tell him that it isn't possible or it's ridiculously difficult to react to a tech in place with a dash attack.

 

[Alphicans]

Well if you just dash attack immediately after you'll hit him if he techs in place or doesn't tech at all. I think that's what he means.

 

[Exdeath]

Well if you just dash attack immediately after you'll hit him if he techs in place or doesn't tech at all. I think that's what he means.

That isn't a reaction to Snake's choice, though.

 

[Alphicans]

I don't think A2 ever mentioned reacting to anything.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I did actually suggest that you can react to which side any character lands on when you D-throw them and consistently Dash Attack them if they don't tech.

If they tech in place, I dunno, I can't help but feel it's still possible to feasibly hit confirm that (invincible 1-20, end 27). Characters make a noise when teching in place furthermore. The only thing I find annoying about Snake teching in place is you don't recover fast enough to D-smash him before he U-tilts you. What's more dangerous imo is if he has room to techroll backwards and not get hit by Dash Attack, which can leave you very open for committing (though committing to punish his back roll is always safe).

And people just plain underestimate that D-throw and the associated followups are GOOD against Snake. I'm not suggesting it's outright better than simply U-throwing him, but the fact is you can't ignore that it is potentially more profitable. Putting Snake above you with U-throw is certainly good for damage. When he gets hit by Dash Attack or D-tilt, the positioning from those moves however tends to be superior for followups though. Then there is the fact that techchasing into F-air is very helpful when you need a KO. Those are the situational reasons to D-throw Snake.

Furthermore, it's almost always nice to put in a wider variety of moves into your stale moves que. Implementing more moves helps to increase your average damage output.

 

[Ryo_Guikido]

sup guys just made a small mixclip beacuse i was ill this days and totaly bored

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej4MAYTpgwA

KAAK i think i love you! : ) this is Publix aka G.LOVE btw. upb to 9? really? lol

 

[GimR]

I did actually suggest that you can react to which side any character lands on when you D-throw them and consistently Dash Attack them if they don't tech.

If they tech in place, I dunno, I can't help but feel it's still possible to feasibly hit confirm that (invincible 1-20, end 27). Characters make a noise when teching in place furthermore. The only thing I find annoying about Snake teching in place is you don't recover fast enough to D-smash him before he U-tilts you. What's more dangerous imo is if he has room to techroll backwards and not get hit by Dash Attack, which can leave you very open for committing (though committing to punish his back roll is always safe).

And people just plain underestimate that D-throw and the associated followups are GOOD against Snake. I'm not suggesting it's outright better than simply U-throwing him, but the fact is you can't ignore that it is potentially more profitable. Putting Snake above you with U-throw is certainly good for damage. When he gets hit by Dash Attack or D-tilt, the positioning from those moves however tends to be superior for followups though. Then there is the fact that techchasing into F-air is very helpful when you need a KO. Those are the situational reasons to D-throw Snake.

Furthermore, it's almost always nice to put in a wider variety of moves into your stale moves que. Implementing more moves helps to increase your average damage output.

this is something I can basically agree with.


BTW, the other day I d-threw a snake and he didn't tech, I predicted the roll with a dashed charged usmash and he rolled passed it. >< why is his roll so long.(I know I probably could of hit him while he passed me)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah btw did nobody here notice that I beat ViceGrip in tournament? =P

Both games were on BF. First game I Bucket gimped his PK Thunder. I also discovered that platform camping with D-tilts was surprisingly effective against Ness...just given that it beats his F-air/B-air consistently, and usually if you're spacing those in anticipation of his F-airs or B-airs, he doesn't have enough time to get under or above you to really punish you for throwing out a D-tilt.

 

[ViceGrip]

2 $ tourney w/ 9 people David, no need to brag. You were playing real well that day however and I couldn't adjust due to my own frustration w/ this game now a days. Your reaction was actually real good, dtilting when I would jump up and try and fair you on a platform and you would up B when I would try to dair a lot. I should have been able to adjust and stop hitting my head against the wall but it wasn't happening. Btw have you converted everyone to lagless fair off of ledge? All gaw's should do that by now.

 

[Exdeath]

2 $ tourney w/ 9 people David, no need to brag. You were playing real well that day however and I couldn't adjust due to my own frustration w/ this game now a days. Your reaction was actually real good, dtilting when I would jump up and try and fair you on a platform and you would up B when I would try to dair a lot. I should have been able to adjust and stop hitting my head against the wall but it wasn't happening. Btw have you converted everyone to lagless fair off of ledge? All gaw's should do that by now.

A2Z on Vice Grip's account.

 

[Today]

niice, A2ZOMG. Did you manage to grab any videos?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Unfortunately I was not able to...

HOWEVER at WGF, I did teach Oki and Zekey the ledgehop lagless F-air as you may (or may not?) recall. =)

And ViceGrip, it was 11 people to be exact as I recall, but anyhow I understand how you feel. Just it's hard for me to get over beating both you and Kirds in losers, even if I know that you and Kirds weren't playing optimally those sets. Me getting to tournaments, much less performing decently, is a huge deal for me no matter how small the attendance, given my overall low attendance rates.

You're still amazing ViceGrip, and I'll have to play your Melee Ness!

 

[kaak]

Unfortunately I was not able to...

HOWEVER at WGF, I did teach Oki and Zekey the ledgehop lagless F-air as you may (or may not?) recall. =)

And ViceGrip, it was 11 people to be exact as I recall, but anyhow I understand how you feel. Just it's hard for me to get over beating both you and Kirds in losers, even if I know that you and Kirds weren't playing optimally those sets. Me getting to tournaments, much less performing decently, is a huge deal for me no matter how small the attendance, given my overall low attendance rates.

You're still amazing ViceGrip, and I'll have to play your Melee Ness!

can you tell us one time more how you do that lagless fair?

with details/vid plox

 

[A2ZOMG]

The most important part about doing it is knowing how to buffer a frame perfect midair jump + F-air. When G&W does his midair jump, you hear a beep. When he does his F-air, you hear a different beep. If you're inputting it correctly, you will ONLY hear the F-air beep.

I lightly press backwards to ledgedrop and then I quickly input jump + F-air to ledgehop F-air. Timing the jump after ledgedrop isn't hard. The hard part is making sure that you're doing a frame perfect jump+F-air. Keep in mind that pulling this off correctly always results in G&W acquiring a second jump renewal.

 

[Today]

^ Huh! That's definitely interesting! And extremely helpful! hm hm hm.. -ideas!-

And it's okay if you couldn't get any videos! You did a good job still!

 

[GimR]

wow, I'm using that,

also just to let you guys know, if you press down forward at the right spot you won't fast fall but you'll still let go of the ledge. This will allow for better horizontal momentum

 

[Alphicans]

On a ledge related note....

You know how on YI's right ledge at <100%, if you press jump you just instantly get onto the stage? Well you can do that on pictochat as well. Not sure if it applies to both sides, but I was messing around with it on picto.

 

[Today]

^Hm! I think I tried to do that on Pictochat and had no luck (just out of curiosity). I can def try it again, though!

Speaking of YI, how does most of you guys feel about that stage?

Also-- thanks, GIMR!

 

[-Ominous-]

I recall being able to jump straight to the ledge on the right side. But that was just during a match. I haven't erally gone and messed aroudn with it myself.

I personally do not like YI. I dislike the platform in the center. It's just an annoying obstacle that allows characters to play a little campy, and it makes approching more difficult.

 

[Alphicans]

^Hm! I think I tried to do that on Pictochat and had no luck (just out of curiosity). I can def try it again, though!

Speaking of YI, how does most of you guys feel about that stage?

Also-- thanks, GIMR!

It definitely works.