Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[Splice]

GaW approaching Snake is kinda hard. Tbh i just hang around and wait for a mistake because that saves me trouble but if you really need to approach you will probably need to mindgame somehow; straight up Bair should never work, although if Sheild is small or he doesn't have a good setup, you may be able to poke him with the tip of Bair. Perhaps empty shorthops and if snake uses an attack which misses you then maybe you can Bair him or Nair. Dair can work if you bait the Utilt and slowfall, then continue before he can do anything else. It's not easy sorry

I honestly don't think rolling is ever the best option with GaW. Just don't roll lol. It's already considered pretty bad, because you can't directly control your movement and spacing so you become easier to read by limiting yourself, and also GaWs roll is probably the slowest and has very few frames on invulnerability. You can run faster then the roll and thats 100% safer because spotdodge has more invulnerability then roll to afaik. Don't roll, please.

 

[Exdeath]

A player who is better than you and has experience against much better Snakes and a player who might be better than you and has experience against much better Snakes are giving you advice on the match-up. You can either take the advice/examine the advice or you can leave it. I will say, however, that if you are not getting your rolls punished then it's in your interest to teach them how to punish it if you're interested in improving. You still have plenty of room to work on the Snake match-up.

 

[Alphicans]

Running on one of the platforms on green greens. Yup definitely going to do that.

Who is to say GIMR is better than me. Relatively speaking I am a far more succesful GaW than both of you. What makes you say you play better snakes than me?

 

[Exdeath]

Running on one of the platforms on green greens. Yup definitely going to do that.

Who is to say GIMR is better than me. Relatively speaking I am a far more succesful GaW than both of you. What makes you say you play better snakes than me?

I'm not sure how to reply to this without hurting your feelings, so I won't.

 

[Alphicans]

Lol k .

 

[Splice]

oh Alphicans...

I've seen GIMR play he's great, and Xdeath is one of my favourite posters on these boards he said some good stuff recently lol.

...

Can someone link me to this match so I can have a leg to stand on?

Also, Alphicans, I mean, if this Snake makes you think rolling is good... then I think they can say they play better Snakes then you

 

[Alphicans]

I don't think rolling is good jesus christ. I think rolling when snake isn't around isn't harmful at all, and I think rolling to avoid a grenade on a VERY limiting platform (such as the one on green greens) is acceptable especially if snake isn't around.

The match just consists of 2 nevous players on green greens because we get ***** by the stage and neither of us play on it very much and it's game 5 of loser's finals. I get saved by a falling block and win because he ****s up while picking up a grenade and instead jabs a bomb block. It's not at all a good match to gauge how good I am vs snake. It's just really dumb that anyone would give criticism on a match like that. It was for entertainment value only.

 

[GimR]

Alphicians, I said one thing, you roll too much. You've taken it way too personally and are trying to defend rolling every 15 seconds. I'm really good at the snake match up and am pretty sure I'm better then you at it based off how you played it. There's nothing worse then up and coming players getting full of them selves. The reason I call you up and coming is because I feel you could be a top 5 gw in the future. So please take good advice.

 

[Splice]

I'm mainly criticising the way you are defending your opinion, the things you say. I already got the message that this match wasnt serious.

Why would you roll on a platform though, especially a very limiting one? I mean to avoid the grenade dropping down or jump airdodge (i dont know where grenade was coming from lol).

Im sure it'd be easier for everyone if you posted a serious match and if there really are any kinks any your game we can help work them out. Unless you don't really care to improve. I wouldn't blame you lol.

EDIT: lol GIMR! Top 5 GaW is easy, just use GaW and then play a tournament lmao! That's all I had to do in Australia to become #1 GaW... i mean there was only one other GnW haha, it's so sad.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I bet ducking helps avoid them too. How should G&W approach Snake with his broken reach? Marth can't force an approach but Snake can and his tilts cut my G&W down. Same thing applies with Ike's jabs to a lesser extent.


G&W's roll's no good?

Snake is easy to approach, just you aren't allowed to **** up more than a few times. Use fullhop F-airs and running shieldgrabs (if you powershield, it's basically a free shieldgrab 100% of the time if he does F-tilt). WELL spaced B-airs are valuable against Snake too (make sure you know how to space away from his grenades while hitting Snake, plus fullhopped B-airs are pretty useful here and there). Know the spacing for aerial and D-tilt out of shield against Snake's tilts. None of his tilts are usually safe on block unless manages to use them at maximum range.

The Snake players you have to be cautious against are the ones who shieldgrab after pulling grenades. Otherwise generally speaking grabbing Snake is really good when he's pulling grenades.

Vs Snake is a matchup that depends on the stage imo, otherwise it's pretty close to even.

I will add, Snake wins 80/20 if you aren't playing well though.

 

[GimR]

@Splice: I meant a top 5 GW in the US. I didn't mean a GW who could get top 5 at a tourney

 

[Alphicans]

Alphicians, I said one thing, you roll too much. You've taken it way too personally and are trying to defend rolling every 15 seconds. I'm really good at the snake match up and am pretty sure I'm better then you at it based off how you played it. There's nothing worse then up and coming players getting full of them selves. The reason I call you up and coming is because I feel you could be a top 5 gw in the future. So please take good advice.

It's more that you and xdeath are claiming I roll too much off of one match on green greens. If you watch the rest of the set you'll see I don't roll like at all (which is what should happen).

Splice you'd have to see the match, or just imagine green greens lol. I posted the match like a page ago.

 

[Splice]

@Splice: I meant a top 5 GW in the US. I didn't mean a GW who could get top 5 at a tourney

Unless you said that the wrong away around, then that's exactly what I thought you were implying lol.

To continue from what A2 said bout approaching Snake:
if you know the spacing it's good to approach with Dtilt or Nair, OoS especially with Nair.
I don't think run-in-sheild-grab even if it's powersheild is a good idea, Snakes attacks hit you too far.
Don't bother with that arisen -___-
Fair can be ok but you have to be really precise, but it might do you well.

If Snake is facing you it's easy to approach but if he is not facing you the grenade he is holding will blow up when you hit, and it's not normally worth it to trade. I think Dtilt would not blow up the grenade though but I am unsure.

Also if you are pressured you can always UpB OoS. Just in case you don't do that much Arisen, something all GaWs should do or at least know about y'know.

@Alphicans: Yeah I understand Green Greens is pretty ********. Was this tourney match or friendly, awesome if you have GG's legal in tourney but lol so silly. ps if you dont normally roll at all then you didnt have to defend rolling like you did, i think I may have just got the wrong impression because of how you defended it haha.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno, I think sliding shield is underestimated against Snake.

The other thing I like doing is F-airing out of shield the instant Snake does F-tilt1 on my shield. This ***** against Snake players who think they're clever by trying to hit confirm their F-tilt1s before going into F-tilt2. It's also much lower risk than you may expect given that Snake's F-tilt2 only does 9-10 damage fresh on aerial opponents and much less knockback. Forcing Snake to stale his primary damage dealer in a way that makes it deal less damage is kinda cool if you ask me.

 

[Alphicans]

This was a tournament match. Alberta (province in Western Canada) has lots of stages as cp (including pipes), and 9 starters.

You're right I guess I didn't have to do that, but I just get easily worked up over people claiming I do something after watching a really dumb match.

 

[Splice]

The other thing I like doing is F-airing out of shield the instant Snake does F-tilt1 on my shield. This ***** against Snake players who think they're clever by trying to hit confirm their F-tilt1s before going into F-tilt2. It's also much lower risk than you may expect given that Snake's F-tilt2 only does 9-10 damage fresh on aerial opponents and much less knockback. Forcing Snake to stale his primary damage dealer in a way that makes it deal less damage is kinda cool if you ask me.

Whilst I see where you are coming from and that's pretty cool, because it isn't guaranteed I can't say I recommend that. Maybe if a Snake always does the hit confirm.

For the more faint-hearted Dtilt OoS also works, which is what I do sometimes.

But I mean A2, this isnt really first order of business, if you arent experienced against Snake you should probably just UpB OoS, since Snake has a lot more things he can do out of Ftilt1 then hitconfirm --> Ftilt2. I guess Arisen, if you notice a Snake always does that, try a Fair OoS or Dtilt OoS. But if you are unsure UpB OoS

@Alph: If we had your stagelist I wouldnt lose to my local Diddy Kongs lol

Fair enough, I guess try not to get worked up on critique, If you really think it doesnt apply just nod your head, because you dont really want to discourage people from giving you critique at a later time. It doesnt really matter if people get a bad impression, but thats just me...

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah diddy moves down a tier with our stage list. Most fair stage list imo.

 

[Rizen]

Snake is easy to approach, just you aren't allowed to **** up more than a few times. Use fullhop F-airs and running shieldgrabs (if you powershield, it's basically a free shieldgrab 100% of the time if he does F-tilt). WELL spaced B-airs are valuable against Snake too (make sure you know how to space away from his grenades while hitting Snake, plus fullhopped B-airs are pretty useful here and there). Know the spacing for aerial and D-tilt out of shield against Snake's tilts. None of his tilts are usually safe on block unless manages to use them at maximum range.

The Snake players you have to be cautious against are the ones who shieldgrab after pulling grenades.

if you know the spacing it's good to approach with Dtilt or Nair, OoS especially with Nair.
I don't think run-in-sheild-grab even if it's powersheild is a good idea, Snakes attacks hit you too far.
Don't bother with that arizen -___-
Fair can be ok but you have to be really precise, but it might do you well.

If Snake is facing you it's easy to approach but if he is not facing you the grenade he is holding will blow up when you hit, and it's not normally worth it to trade. I think Dtilt would not blow up the grenade though but I am unsure.

Also if you are pressured you can always UpB OoS. Just in case you don't do that much Arizen, something all GaWs should do or at least know about y'know.

The other thing I like doing is F-airing out of shield the instant Snake does F-tilt1 on my shield.

For the more faint-hearted Dtilt OoS also works, which is what I do sometimes.

I guess Arizen, if you notice a Snake always does that, try a Fair OoS or Dtilt OoS. But if you are unsure UpB OoS

Okay, thanks. Good info there; I'll work on it.
When is chef good to use?
PS
fixed for zen.

 

[Alphicans]

Lol chef. It can be good to limit options getting off the ledge, and sometimes it can limit options in other scenarios. Overall it's a situational move that can be really useful if used just right.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I think OoS upb is the best option against anything but ftilt 2 or utilt. Like, idc what anyone says, I'd rather roll away from a utilt on my shield than try to punish. Fair OoS after ftilt 2 is legit as hell though.

 

[sambo400]

Do you guys find that your thumbs hurt more after playing GnW as opposed to other characters? Perhaps I just grip the controller too hard.

And how do you (anybody) go about approaching a campy Pit on an open stage like FD? I am terrible against Pit with GnW. I'm better as random in that matchup.

 

[Alphicans]

I like to dtilt punish these things. I am not really sure how to explain it, but I just feel that it opens up so many things.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

And how do you (anybody) go about approaching a campy Pit on an open stage like FD?

You ban FD.

If for whatever reason you're playing there, just fill your bucket and then just walk up and grab him. You'll need to dodge some arrows on the way, and getting the grab will involve making a read. After that you dthrow tech chase three times and finish off with Oil Panic. ~Voila, stock lead. Then you get to camp him.

 

[Splice]

Man i dont even know how to explain vs. Pit. as long as I'm awake it's like the easiest MU i love it.

Keep on the pressure and get good offstage, you should be able to follow him offstage but not under.

Airdodge and jump over arrows, you can bucket the arrows, but learn this MU without using bucket first, its not fundamental.

@Arisen: My keyboard is slightly modded/Broken, I have the z key set to UP so I can use it as jump in some games like "Jumper 2", lol. Because my UP key is broken and I can't use it to jump.

I dont use Chef much vs Snake i find it's awkward with the grenades and other explosives. I use it offstage if Snake is at low %s to hit him with the pan out of Cypher, or just in moments where I get a good read and think I can get a kill. It's not a very standard move that you can rely on.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Do you guys find that your thumbs hurt more after playing GnW as opposed to other characters? Perhaps I just grip the controller too hard.

And how do you (anybody) go about approaching a campy Pit on an open stage like FD? I am terrible against Pit with GnW. I'm better as random in that matchup.

Vs Pit is pretty simple, just you have to be patient. Vs Pit is similar to vs Lucario if you know that matchup. Get in midrange and control him from there, since he's garbage at that range, and G&W happens to excel in midrange.

Pit's most annoying moves are Jab and forward roll lol. His Jab is annoying since his has more range than yours and he'll use it as a poke and possibly a setup into grabs. Forward roll is one of his better options for escaping your pressure and create punish opportunities. Keep an eye out for it and bait it for free openings.

If he likes those Wings of Icarus spacing shenanigans onstage, keep in mind you can basically N-air him out of it easily if you're expecting it.

He might surprise you here and there with Angel Ring and arrows, but they aren't a huge threat for the most part. Angel Ring can be outprioritized fairly easily if you aim for his hand. Just shield arrows, don't Bucket them unless he's obvious with them at extreme distances. The rest of his moves just lose to G&W's superior midrange options.

What I wish I was good at was powershielding the 2nd hit of Pit's F-smash. At any rate if you can do that consistently, extra points for you since you basically get a free Smash if you can do that.

 

[Makke]

.....................

 

[A2ZOMG]

Doesn't work in actual gameplay if he has lower controller port priority. And quite frankly you take damage regardless. It's not really a good trade. Throwing him immediately is much more useful.

 

[Makke]

.....................

 

[A2ZOMG]

You just need to be more observant. Grenades exploding in your face should mostly be a non-issue when throwing Snake. You need to simply choose wisely between solid spacing, grabs, and waiting.

Generally speaking when I play against Snake, I'm always analyzing ways I could have avoided getting hit. Every time I get hit by Snake, I know that I made a mistake and that a different decision on my part would have left me safe. Probably the only time I feel like Snake is unfair to play against is on TVs and stage combinations that make it hard to see Snake's grenades.

Like generally, when I get hit by a grenade, I realize I was being impatient and I should have simply waited longer. When I get hit by a tilt/aerial, my spacing was sloppy. When I get grabbed, I wasn't moving around enough. Just things like that. That's my general thought process against Snake. Individually, everything Snake does is easy to manage. You just aren't allowed to get careless against him.

 

[GimR]

uthrow, glide tosss grenade up, snake has to air dodge, profit

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

You just need to be more observant. Grenades exploding in your face should mostly be a non-issue when throwing Snake. You need to simply choose wisely between solid spacing, grabs, and waiting.

Generally speaking when I play against Snake, I'm always analyzing ways I could have avoided getting hit. Every time I get hit by Snake, I know that I made a mistake and that a different decision on my part would have left me safe. Probably the only time I feel like Snake is unfair to play against is on TVs and stage combinations that make it hard to see Snake's grenades.

Like generally, when I get hit by a grenade, I realize I was being impatient and I should have simply waited longer. When I get hit by a tilt/aerial, my spacing was sloppy. When I get grabbed, I wasn't moving around enough. Just things like that. That's my general thought process against Snake. Individually, everything Snake does is easy to manage. You just aren't allowed to get careless against him.

I think like that too with any character when up against Snake.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah.

The thing that annoys me about playing vs Snake is for each character I use against him, I have to relearn the whole matchup all over again...Just how to space, how to get in his face safely, how to capitalize...it's a matchup that requires effort.

 

[UTDZac]

To beat snake:

Spam UpB and Bair
Juggle with Nair and Uair
Time Smashes to kill on landing
Oh... and be patient

 

[GimR]

To beat snake:

Spam UpB and Bair
Juggle with Nair and Uair
Time Smashes to kill on landing
Oh... and be patient

you forgot u-throw ><

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah tons of uthrow.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno, people don't give enough credit to G&W's D-throw followups on Snake. Sure you don't get free Smashes that cover two of his getup options, but Dash attack and D-tilt are plenty good enough to justify D-throwing Snake. Oh and techchase F-air, I'm pretty certain that's legit on every character, though I only recently have decided to implement in my game.

I mean putting Snake above you is cool and all, but D-throw opens up other options that are also very profitable against Snake. If you need a kill, getting Snake offstage with D-tilt is like by far the easiest way to set up a free kill in that matchup.

 

[Rizen]

The thing that annoys me about playing vs Snake is for each character I use against him, I have to relearn the whole matchup all over again...Just how to space, how to get in his face safely, how to capitalize...it's a matchup that requires effort.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yes

 

[Alphicans]

I dunno, people don't give enough credit to G&W's D-throw followups on Snake. Sure you don't get free Smashes that cover two of his getup options, but Dash attack and D-tilt are plenty good enough to justify D-throwing Snake. Oh and techchase F-air, I'm pretty certain that's legit on every character, though I only recently have decided to implement in my game.

I mean putting Snake above you is cool and all, but D-throw opens up other options that are also very profitable against Snake. If you need a kill, getting Snake offstage with D-tilt is like by far the easiest way to set up a free kill in that matchup.

Eh. Dash attack is good at low percentages, and dtilt has its uses, but uthrow is almost always the better choice. Certain situations will be exceptions though of course.

 

[GimR]

I have to disagree with you a2.

Uthrow at low to mid percents set up an n-air frame trap on snake. The only thing he can do to avoid the n-air is air dodge. Since he's in his arc when he air dodges he pretty much stays in place during the air dodge thus you can punish it if your n-air misses

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, you can also set up a frame trap with Dash attack as well. It's even better since Dash Attack doesn't send Snake as high, meaning he can't just jump out of your juggle zone. Beyond that just you have the potential of doing even more damage by setting stuff up with D-throw and Dash attack.

Mixing up damage options is also even more profitable given that using different moves increases your overall damage output by having a wider variety of moves on your staleness que.