Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[SFA Smiley]

Revamping my playstyle to be safer and more automatic. I'll post some videos later so I can have them critiqued because I'm not used to playing this way and need to know if i'm doing it right. Because I haven't tried it on anyone better than me yet, so I dunno if it'll actually be effective on them.

 

[-LzR-]

I noticed how I am doing far far better when I sometimes just do a random dsmash pretty much randomly. Dsmash is unsafe, but there is not enough time for heavy punishes so the risk reward is in your favor. Gotten many kills below 100% this way. How come I never realized this, I always tried to go for hard reads with fsmash, but that move is so unsafe you are dead every time you mess up.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Dsmash is like that yeah, It's our overall best punish move IMO. Although I am personally more favorable towards Usmash.

Actually I like Dair as a punish too, most reliable, good damage, can use offstage and KOs after 150 generally.

I just got done watching the replays I was mentioning and geez i feel like such a [slur for homosexuals]

But hey, I guess i gotta do what I gotta do to win. I'm not like planking or anything just spacing bair and using it to frame trap and stuff. Less fun than my old playstyle, that's for sure, but I can't go outta state and mess up again I don't think I could take another one of those bad performances.

 

[Gardex]

Random smashing is my metagame.

I got 3rd place at a tournament this weekend. Lost to the same players who have been beating me the last 3 years, so it was k. They've always been a cut above the rest in Norway.
Took it as practice for this upcoming weekend, where I'll be attending a big tournament in Germany.
Probably teaming with Dueler in doubles as well. Taking it, easily.

 

[-LzR-]

Imo usmash sucks. I can never get it to land as it's too slow to be practical. I only use it OoS against really laggy stuff but that's it. I managed to get a shieldbreak it with yesterday, but other than that, nope, useless. Dsmash ***** though.

 

[UTDZac]

I noticed how I am doing far far better when I sometimes just do a random dsmash pretty much randomly. Dsmash is unsafe, but there is not enough time for heavy punishes so the risk reward is in your favor. Gotten many kills below 100% this way. How come I never realized this, I always tried to go for hard reads with fsmash, but that move is so unsafe you are dead every time you mess up.

Yes, this is very important.

 

[-LzR-]

I'm glad I finally realized something so simple as pressing the cstick down. This is what I call metagame improvement.

 

[Sar]

It's also great because the sourspot trajectory for dsmash is awesome, so you don't even have to worry about spacing. For some characters I'd almost say it's better to sourspot than to sweetspot.

 

[-LzR-]

I almost always go for the sweetspot though, the sourspot has amazing angle, but is pretty weak. Dsmash still surprises me by how early it kills.

 

[UTDZac]

I almost always go for the sweetspot though, the sourspot has amazing angle, but is pretty weak. Dsmash still surprises me by how early it kills.

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BJsgsu4Ok5k#t=66s (and to some extent, snake's last stock death too)

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C9i1Z0pDqDQ#t=129s

 

[Sar]

Zac, do you actually keep track of your judgements or is that a made-up number?

 

[Gardex]

You should always be aware of the last two numbers you've gotten

 

[UTDZac]

Zac, do you actually keep track of your judgements or is that a made-up number?

I actually keep track. I've changed that number from 0 on up, frequently, as I attended smashfests and tournaments. It's pretty accurate imo.

 

[Sar]

It has to be counting friendlies and random playarounds, right? That number is sooo big. Still impressive.

 

[UTDZac]

Right, if you want only Tournament Judgments and only those that were kills, I kept a list of those as well:

Tournament Judgment KOs: Infinity x3, Dojo x5, M2K, Ally x3, MikeHaze, DEHF, LeeMartin x5, Kos-Mos, DMG x5, UltimateRazer x10, Gnes x2, Dphat x3, Mr. Doom x4, Bwett x8, Inui, JonT, RoyR, PhantomX x2, Shuz x3, Fogo, Beah, Light x3, Trela, Espy, Flip, Forsaken, Bassem, Boose, Kpeezy, Jumpman, Zeton, Ruddy, The Real Infernox2, RedShadow, Deviation x2, Awestin, Chuky, Katie, Munch, FHero, D4Ba, Freddy, Jynx, Luigi King, Aqua x3, Peeks, Echo, Sundown, Leaf x2, Tofer, Skyzim, Zyran, TwilightKirby, Dakpo, Chic, K Prime x2, Shade and others.

It's missing like 10-20. I wasn't able to modify it anymore since the sig got too long.

 

[-LzR-]

I've only gotten 2 9s in tournament matches
In friendlies though they sometimes appear like every single sideB I do.

 

[Alphicans]

I noticed how I am doing far far better when I sometimes just do a random dsmash pretty much randomly. Dsmash is unsafe, but there is not enough time for heavy punishes so the risk reward is in your favor. Gotten many kills below 100% this way. How come I never realized this, I always tried to go for hard reads with fsmash, but that move is so unsafe you are dead every time you mess up.

If only I knew you didn't know about this sooner.

GaW smashes aren't too unsafe since they have like no cool down. Dsmash should be getting the majority of your kills tbh.

 

[-LzR-]

Well Fsmash is very unsafe, but Dsmash is ridiculously safe for such a powerful with quite a bit of range too. And it's not slow either wtf. Needs moar spam.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

His smashes are ******** because you can do some really telegraphed strings a couple of times in a row then just randomly smash at any point during it when you think they want to punish.

 

[UTDZac]

I dont feel like any of G&W's smashes are unsafe...

 

[Sar]

I wouldn't say that fsmash is unsafe, either. The lingering hitbox is very deceptive, so if people try to punish too hastily they get hit running in. It also makes them very wary of trying to punish.
And usmash is great too. It has a ton of startup lag, but ending lag is so small. It's great because a lot of people think it's just the opposite, will try to get a punish on you when you do it, and don't realize how quickly you can do a move afterwards.

 

[Alphicans]

I dont feel like any of G&W's smashes are unsafe...

Quoted for truth and agreement.

I throw out smashes randomly so often... Well not randomly, just when I think they're gonna run into me. I also throw them out when I don't want them to rush me down. It's quite effective cause people don't want to **** with that.

EDIT: I find throwing out smashes while really far away from snake makes him do what you want a lot of the time. On one hand it stops him from abusing DACUS on you, while at the same time it makes them confident in the timings of your smash attacks, so they'll attempt to dacus you, but if you can predict when they'll do that you can charge the smash.

 

[Sar]

I find throwing out smashes while really far away from snake makes him do what you want a lot of the time. On one hand it stops him from abusing DACUS on you, while at the same time it makes them confident in the timings of your smash attacks, so they'll attempt to dacus you, but if you can predict when they'll do that you can charge the smash.​

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This seems smart. I'll have to try. EDIT: How do you quote a specific comment?​

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[-LzR-]

Well I don't know about you guys, but I get punished for my smashes 90% of the time. Either I am really bad or my opponents just know what the hell they are doing. Obviously Dsmash with good spacing is safe as it has a lot of range and you have time to upB away.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

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Just modify the quote​

 

[Sar]

The new forums are bad and they should feel bad.

 

[SFA Smiley]

They're not bad there's just all these problems and downtime and the was nothing really wrong with the site before =/

I'm sure it'll be polished (I hope)

There's a tourney today but my cars done so I can't go =(

It's our PR decision tourney too.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

ugh. Today's tournament was painful for me. I haven't done this badly in a while. I was messing up all of my inputs and my spacing could have been better if a 5 year old tried. I ended up having to leave early, which was good because I was spiraling. I need a way to practice at home, but I can't do Wi-Fi because my computer is broken.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Last season just sucked for Tucson, I only went to one tourney I think.

 

[Sar]

Why do you guys thing GW is so polarizing in his matchups? According to the matchup chart v2 we only have 4 neutral matchups, which is like tied for 4th or 5th lowest. Is it the bucket?

 

[Alphicans]

It's cause he has amazing pros and horrible cons

 

[-LzR-]

And it's also that a lot of our pros exist because we can make hard reads and get ******** rewards for them. In theory we have very little options, but our moves are ridiculously strong and weird so they are actually very hard to avoid in practice.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I'm gonna make a video on Bucket Stalling and some applications. I know everyone knows about it but nobody is actually doing it and i keep watching Gdubs get edgehogged or get punished unnecessarily because of it.

I keep seeing GOOD players lose because of not doing it too. I've watched Vinnie, Paper, and now Vex all take unnecessary damage for no reason. When I went to Apex 9B thought my use of it was pretty impressive too. At least I think so, he made these sounds that seemed like it.

 

[Alphicans]

Lol I like never do it cause I like the thought of being able to maybe stage spike my opponent with upb. Also vs mk it seems super unsafe

 

[SFA Smiley]

You are more likely to get the stagespike when you bucket brake because if they hang on too long they're ****ed. It's basically the same as marth stalling with his side-b. And it's another reading game, you don't do it everytime, you mix it up, theres a lotta situations where it literally is the perfect option and you can't be punished for it, even by MK. There's actually some gimmicky applications to it as well, i'll just make a video though, it's a really important thing to remember i honestly think it's as vital as bucket braking, it makes your recovery way better because even when you have no jumps you can still recover low (granted to mix them up well) and you still can recover high after they start trying to read you low recovery bucket brakes and it just adds another dimension to your game.

 

[PentaSalia]

I've been doing bucket stalling since last year lol. It is very useful but should be used as a recovery mixup only.
Vinnie has done it a couple times but he would lose his stock sometimes either because he was too low or they predicted the bucket stall.

Bucket stall is very useful against characters that can consistently punish G&W upb by grabbing the ledge( MK, Marth, Wario, etc).
It's not 100% safe though and it can be punished. If they predict the bucket stall your opponent can just wait a bit longer before they grab the ledge and then you're in a worse situation lol.

 

[Gardex]

Yo we should probably go back to the MU chart v3 and finish our stuff.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I've been doing bucket stalling since last year lol. It is very useful but should be used as a recovery mixup only.
Vinnie has done it a couple times but he would lose his stock sometimes either because he was too low or they predicted the bucket stall.

Bucket stall is very useful against characters that can consistently punish G&W upb by grabbing the ledge( MK, Marth, Wario, etc).
It's not 100% safe though and it can be punished. If they predict the bucket stall your opponent can just wait a bit longer before they grab the ledge and then you're in a worse situation lol.

Just don't stall everytime, aim straight for the ledge sometimes, even if they try to ledgehog you if you do it early you'll land on the stage and just take a fair or nair as opposed to slowly falling to your death

its basically the same as marth, we just have too much control over when we can up-b for us to be edgehogged like that reliably

 

[Sar]

Can you laborate about what you mean exactly by bucket stalling? I'm mostly looking for context/when it's useful. I assume you mean using the bucket to stop our momentum, similar to sideB stalling with marth? I just never really thought to do it because it's a ridiculously long (50 frame) move with no hitbox to keep the opponent away that takes away our ability to strafe to avoid enemy attacks from dropping off the ledge. But that's just me.

 

[SFA Smiley]

That's how everyone sees it, but people aren't going to follow you under the stage because of the risk of getting stage spiked and the fact that GW is more dangerous offstage than most of the cast anyway. There's ways to use it that is probably technically punishable but the risk isn't really worth it especially because it's much safer just to sit near the edge and try to edgehog you instead. I'll just make a video showing applications and examples of top level matches that could have been WON with a single bucket stall.