Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[Alphicans]

Link can grab you. Idk about samus, but the important one, ZSS, as expected cannot grab usmash OoS. Not that she'd do so anyways.

 

[Gardex]

Link can, but he's Link, and maybe he could up b oos as well?

You don't want to kill Link vertically; waste of time.
HE NEVER DIES

 

[Alphicans]

Honestly I don't really care what kind of special things we get on bad characters like link and samus anyways lol.

 

[Rizen]

Just Fair Link offstage. :/

After Usmash G&W also has the start lag of jump, spotdodge, UpB etc to factor in if he is to avoid grabs and OoS attacks.

edit:
So OoS attack or grab if done on G&W's Usmash first frame of hitting (24) would have 14 frames for Usmash to end and 2 more frames before spotdodge can start to connect. Reacting on the first frame would be hard too. It's fairly safe. IDK what frame ZSS' grab starts.

 

[Alphicans]

I've already accounted for that... I've already said I've accounted for that.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

So what happens when they just powershield it? Or shield grab before the hitbox comes out?

 

[Alphicans]

PSing means they just get the full frame advantage (can do anything while the move is in cool down). Shield drop frames don't come into play.

If they grab before the hitbox comes out they grab us.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

So basically, it's not the smartest thing to do, especially when a grab can mean a quarter of a stock. Unless they're facing the other way.

 

[Alphicans]

When does a grab equal a quarter of a stock?

When you running usmash, who grabs OoS? Yeah over time they should learn that it's possible, but the timing is still gonna be fairly tight, and it's generally not going to be a grab off of reaction, but rather a grab off of a read, so if you keep it unpredictable it's going to be effective.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Yeah I guess thats a good point.

And a quarter stock could be Olimar dyhrow>uair/usmash.


I mean obviously you have more experience in this stuff than I do, but I just don't think many people would let a move so slow just hit their shield. Maybe if they are predicting a DA they would be forced to do it, but I dunno about using this very often.

AND FOR SURE DONT LET THIS LEAVE THE BOARD.

 

[Alphicans]

Do you ever interrupt MK's fsmash with a grab? How many people do you see do that?

Don't try for this at 0-10% vs oli if you're so worried about getting dthrow -> usmash.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

The difference with his fsmash imo is that he doesn't have to be in grab range to hit you with it. That and you have to go to the fsmash, our usmash has to go to them.

And I guess most characters have nothing guaranteed out of a grab at mid percents (except the 10 damage or so)

 

[Damittom]

Do you ever interrupt MK's fsmash with a grab? How many people do you see do that?

This is the most important point. If someone realizes you are next to their shield in the starting frames of the up smash animation they are not going to drop their shield. Instinctively they are going to keep their shield up. The only people I can see reacting to this with a grab are top players with crazy good reaction times such as Ally or Anti, and only if these players realize they can grab before the hitbox comes out.

 

[Alphicans]

Well I have to admit he made a good point about the range thing. MK isn't usually in grab range when he fsmashes, or at least he shouldn't be. We'd have to try this a bunch to really see what people do in this kind of situation.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I'll see if I can do some testing on this over the weekend. I'll do it with Dedede, IC's, whoever has the highest friction value, and everyone with the tethers. I'll also see if MK can do anything out of a shield jump after the hit (like UpB or nair)

Should I do it TAS or by reaction?

 

[Alphicans]

We can see what characters can do just by looking at the frame data, so lots of testing really isn't needed. The testing needs to come from actual matches, observing what people do most of the time vs certain things.

Testing is olimar can grab is necessary though, because I don't know how long it takes pikmin to travel. Test that with TAS and reaction.
Yeah and maybe test if ICs can grab a usmash. The thing is they're like the one character that would try to grab us out of usmash so.... :/

 

[Damittom]

I can test the Olimar grab in game tonight im going to be playing with L_Cancel so ill let you know if it is realistic against olimar or if he can punish it realitvely easily in the middle of a match.

 

[Alphicans]

Make sure you're buffering the upB after usmash. Try your best to do it.

Also try jabbing.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

The frame data isn't what I'm looking at, its the push. As in luigi will slide a lot further away than bowser would.

 

[Alphicans]

I am guessing DDD is gonna be able to grab pretty easily lol. Grab range too good.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Hmm.. Then who should I test it on?

I was thinking of doing it with the lowest traction, highest traction, and MK. And then special cases as well.

 

[Alphicans]

Late reply, but if you're able to test with TAS, test as many things as possible.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Hey, you guys know how to fight Sonic?

Lost to Sonic for my second tourney in a row. I dunno how to read+Bait him because his mix-ups are too good+he's too random.

And the one i'm playing stopped running into my smashes.

 

[Patches]

I just attack where I think he's going to run. Works out for me.

Also, me and Tech_Chase went double in doubles and *****.

 

[Alphicans]

Lots of shielding, make sure you DI properly if he connects with spindash so you don't get baired, and don't run into fsmash. If you can do this really consistently you'll live forever, which is the defining factor when vsing sonic. It truly comes down to how often you let him get non-legit things. If you're bad at letting it happen then sonic becomes a good character, if you don't let it happen it's an easy match-up, because eventually you're going to hit him, and eventually you'll smash his spindash approach.

 

[SFA Smiley]

My smashes kept clanking with his spindash for some reason.

And My DI is good I was popping out of the dumb stuff but a lot of the time I was just swinging at air so to speak because he faked me out or whatever. I don't think I got the matches recorded but if I did, I'll post em'

I just made a few mistakes and ultimately lost the second match because I accidentally buffed a dair (because of DI) and wasn't able to bucket break but we were at last stock high percent stuff so you know.

 

[Rizen]

Sonics like to move in and out of range and punish hasty chases. A hit and run or rather run>hit>follow up thing. Small stages are good. His Fsmash, Uair and Bair have decent disjoint but nothing G&W can't beat. Attack in a way where you cover as far back as he can retreat and chip away at him until you can juggle or intercept.
If he UpBs to recover try to grab him and hold without pummeling for an air release the will kill him like Snake. This probably won't work and he'll airdodge or Fair but next time if you fake it you can punish with a free smash.

 

[Damittom]

We should just start timing out Sonics

Block their approaches with bair and nair force them to retreat back and slowly build up damage with chip damage. Sonic really has a hard time killing us so just play really campy and don't commit to anything laggy.

But I don't see how sonic can approach through our disjointed aerials to build up damage. He probably builds up most of his damage through punishes.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I don't think I got the matches recorded but if I did, I'll post em'

This is why I force replays.

 

[SFA Smiley]

This is why I force replays.

But you save every replay ever.

We'll agree to disagree but that's just... ********

imo

On the bright side, I can get my replays from you so I can study em'

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I'll probably go thepugh those tomorrow.

The TAS is gonna be a while btw.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Oh wow guys, My roommate is a student in film and his latest project was to do an interview so he interviewed me and it came out pretty well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Asy9uIDOmco#!

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Hey guys. I pretty much abandoned gaw for Wario now. =(

Someone convince me to use him as one of my mains again, plz

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

GnW is a character that is really cool to win with. Winning with a top tier character is normal. GnW has the potential to win, and its legit when he does.

He also is the original nintendo character.

And 9's.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

At the start, I chose him because I just loved his insanely strong smash attacks...except I actually thought they were fast.
My problem with gaw is that as everyone else and myself got better, I started having trouble getting the kill. ):

I think I wouldn't mind using him in some MU's, but fighting Snake and Falco with him is out of the question for me...

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Save them for hard reads and tech chases. I frequently kill with fair/dair, but sometimes throwing out a dsmash twice can net an easy kill. Just don't fish for the kill, let it come to you.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Yeah, fishing for it has always made me desperate and got me to kill the enemy alot later.
I guess I'll just practice those tech chases and try to become a decent gaw player once again.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yeah, fishing for it has always made me desperate and got me to kill the enemy alot later.
I guess I'll just practice those tech chases and try to become a decent gaw player once again.

It's hard to continue to play GW after everyone around you has adapted, it's sorta the truest test of your character loyalty. It's a hard road but it's very good to have a pocket Gdubs. He's good in teams and has a lot of cool gimmicks and gets really good rewards off of reads. Also my reads are trickling into my other characters so my MK for example is all of MKs stupidness with a big brain behind it and it's very rewarding. Actually now that I started playing Wifi the compliment I get most is that my MK is really good at predicting people.

And my assumption for why that is is because I'm a GW main, and thats how you have to play him to do well.

I couldn't give up this character if I tried, no matter how much I practice the others he's always my best and I'd say by a significant margin =/ (When I'm not fooling around or being overly risky)

 

[Deleted member 189823]

It's loyalty that sustains the character for me, yeah. It's the very same with Yoshi. I've always considered Yoshi my main even though I've always used Bowser more for everything (including tournaments).
gaw is one my mains and I knew he was going to be one of them before I even unlocked him.

 

[Alphicans]

If it comes down to a clutch moment, GaW will always be my ace in the hole.