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Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

-LzR-

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
Peach is currently probably my best character. I can do just fine against Finlands best players with her, something I cannot do with G&W. It must have to do with the differences like G&W not being able to slap that shield like he doesn't give a ****.
And I'm not sure what to think of the Wario Peach MU, I'd say +1 at best, but grabbing him is still pretty hard. Grabrelease to doublehitting bair or nair still does hurt though.
And now that I think of it, maybe the reason I think G&W is kinda bad is because 90% I use him against MK and Marth so I have it tough. I need to try some other MUs and see if they are any better.

And when are we gonna have new MU threads around?
 
overgamer

overgamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
614
Location
Switzerland
3DS FC
5026-4413-8581
SFA aka SmileyFace said:
Grab release into Up-Smash = Peach without her biggest problem: getting KOs

Peach is so much fun. My shield pressure with her is getting so good.

And Peach +1s Wario. I could do it as Gdubs but I want all this peach training to go somewhere =)
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Peach is good bro, her shield pressure when used correctly on non-I-get-out-****-upB-char (lol marth, MK) is very solid I agree. Keep training and using her!

About MU threads, I don't know where to start...
 
Dexident

Dexident

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
272
Location
Alaska
Yeah I have to agree, Peach is not a "bad" character. She might not be high tier but she has some ridiculous shenanigans.
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
I consider Peach better than G&W though. At least she can do **** without the opponent being bad.
 
SFA Smiley

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
2,640
Location
Virginia/Arizona
-LzR- said:
I consider Peach better than G&W though. At least she can do **** without the opponent being bad.
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^That

Peach and Gdubs are honestly around the same level of good but Peach's higher tech ceiling allows her more options which makes her better IMO

In rulesets where we have our hard CPs I still think Gdubs is better though. Peach does well on brinstar but I can't see her faring well on RC due to her terrible vert.
 
Rizen

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,927
Location
Colorado
A large part of G&W's worth comes from his great, fast mobility and offstage game. Sometimes I'll compare G&W to Zelda, who have mostly the same problems. G&W's mobility gives him a huge tier boost. Link and Toon Link actually play very differently but the same principle applies to their difference in rankings too; Toon Link can actually space while spamming and recover. Link's ground game is faster that TLink's.
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
I more like compare GW to Ganondorf. Bot have to make good reads and risks in order to get in, but when they do, they'll wipe their *** with your corpse. But unlike Ganon G&W moves are a lot safer and he can just upB away in case things turn ugly so he is much much better.
But they can be played with a similar mindset though.

On another random note: Does anyone find G&W Dthrow to be the hardest techchasing in the game? Like really, when I sideB with Ganon I just magically do the fsmash in the correct direction or shieldgrab their getup attack and with Snake I can read them really well for a punish. But when I do it with G&W it's awfully hard since there is almost nothing you can do on reaction, you have to buffer things. And I've almost completely given up on Dthrowing Marth. Most of the time I miss my techchase by a single frame and eat a upB.
 
Rizen

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
14,927
Location
Colorado
Ganon's tech chase is easier for me too. He has powerful punishes. Fsmash and SH Dair cover big areas and several of the opponent's options at once.
G&W's tech chase doesn't lay the opponent down like Snake's Dthrow or Ganon's Flame choke.
Ganon, Zelda and less-so G&W all have a difficult time because lag, predictable/limited good options and bad tools to deal with when the opponent shuts them down.

Trivia tidbit: Ganondorf's flame choke first appeared in Twilight Princess. He killed a Sage with it before being banished in the mirror.
 
-LzR-

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
I guess I'll just have to start maining MK again for real. I get to play against a Marth 90% of the time and that **** is not so cool when you play G&W and Peach all the time.
 
SFA Smiley

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
2,640
Location
Virginia/Arizona
Triforce Of Chozo said:
I don't want to contribute because I want you guys to continue thinking Ivysaur is the best one to fight G&W with.
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lol

Just got back from a tourney, tired as ****

still losing to every olimar under the sun. (Went MK though) also lost the city vs city crew battle I was captaining.

My teamhad a problem with Ike *facepalm*

And then I couldnt do much because they sent olimar in on me =(

I swear to god that character... I dont think i'm ever gonna win
 
overgamer

overgamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
614
Location
Switzerland
3DS FC
5026-4413-8581
Rizen said:
What exactly is a crew battle?

____________________________
A while ago that all my GC controller control stick's skins were peeling and I decided to take the skin off. Bad idea, lol.
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4476/thumbbruse003.jpg
I can't prove it but that's not manipulated in any way :/ .
Click to expand...
2 teams fight with an even number of people, and you keep your number of stock for the next battle. So suppose the first match start, the winner wins with a 2 stock, he stay, the opposing team sends a new opponent who must defeat 2 stock, and it goes on until one team no longer have members to send.
 
SFA Smiley

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
2,640
Location
Virginia/Arizona
Ok guys, my pool for revelations is up

Tyrant's in it, he's been coming to our tourneys for a few months now so there's not really anything new for me to see there.

I'll be fighting some guy named Kakarot. I hope he's a random, and not some good as **** person masking their name. Even so Cali Randoms still are really good so we'll see, I'm gonna be playing as safe and gay as possible on saturday.

Wish me luck. I'll likely be going all Gdubs and possibly a bit of MK for Olimar and stuff.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
As I keep getting better, I am realizing gaw has some trouble getting KO's without hard tech reads, or something.
What are the most reliable KO methods that doesn't include getting your opponent down to 150% and just F-Airing them?
 
SFA Smiley

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
Joined
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Messages
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^and it starts.

Swei might be the one saying gdubs sucks soon enough

Youre just gonna keep getting better and better and his flaws are gonna become more apparent

At least you can continue lzr's legacy :troll:

:phone:

As for getting kos? I mostly get them off of fsir but its matchup dependent. Who are you gaving problems killing?
 
Rizen

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
14,927
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Colorado
150% is not super high for KOing in the first place. G&W has decent power with Fair and less so Dair, Ftilt, Utlit for getting the opponent off stage and high % KOs. His smashes are powerful, of course and some opponents give an easy Dsmash from grab>Dthrow. Dash attack vs opponents who linger on the ledge and Dtilt setup nice stage spikes and gimps. G&W has great intercepting tools offstage both low and high. I think G&W's intercepting is his surest way to KO. Sometimes chef allows a combo. G&W's smashes can punish poor choices in landings, spot dodges, lag in general. And there's the '9' judgement gambit. CPing RC works well vs several opponents if it's legal, lol.

I wrote this in a guide for Link, the essential idea applies to many characters (ignore the red text):
"Reading the opponent and punishing is essential with any character as is being unpredictable. Link can land power hits by chaining weaker attacks and spam to stronger lingering attacks and punish forced actions. You don’t want to commit to the ending lag of Dsmash, Spin Attack, Fsmash, Dair, and so on without insurance they will connect or Link can avoid punishment. Play a safe game, for Link, with aggressive pressuring, using a variety of his safer moves (bombs, arrows, boomerang, Zair, Fair, Bair, Nair, jab, Utilt) then flow into power moves with an opening."
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Well, for me, 150% is pretty high unless you're Snake. :B Especially when you're gaw, I chose gaw as one of my mains because of his KO power even if it takes hard reads.
I can stand being patient with Jigglypuff, Link and Yoshi, somewhat.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Charizard is actually pretty strong. Sweetspotted D-Tilt kills, and it's actually pretty fast. Up-Smash is fast, and it apparently has good KO power (I never used it, though, thinking it was about as strong as Diddy's). The rock is probably another reliable KO move.
Squirtle's Up-Smash is defenitely strong, though it is pretty slow to even count. :/

Personally I never had trouble killing with Jigglypuff and Link. I usually land a D-Air with Link even if I do miss twice before finally landing it. F-Smash is also another thing I use for KO's even if it's about average in speed terms. D-Smash is the best because of it's speed, I heard.

Wolf has D-Smash for ground, F-Air in the air and maybe even B-Air if fresh, so he's not really bad at killing. Don't know how DACUS should apply in killing.
 
MEOW1337KITTEH

MEOW1337KITTEH

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
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Location
Tucson, AZ
NNID
daniel7001
We didn't stop, its just that I have been busy with school. I haven't had time to do any preliminary reasearch.

TO THE FALCO BOARDS!
...later
 
Rizen

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
14,927
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Colorado
Char has decent power but opponents will probably be at least 150% for power KOs except tipper/full Fsmash and Rock smash. Char's good at KOing without pure power too. Wolf has a better power KO game. PT's fatigue factor nerfs them a lot.
Link's Dsmash starts frame 6 which is faster than Wolf's (8) but has a stupid amount of ending lag.
Wolf's Dsmash has a nice low angle that helps it KO earlier. Wolf's DAC lasts a good time and punishes lag/dodges/etc, it's not a bad KO option but that's not it's primary use.

G&W's Smash power is about like Char's Fsmash or Link's Dair. The problem is high tiers have crazy good power and speed/reach/etc. Snake's Utilt is frames 6:scared:, Ftilt 4, jab 3.

G&W and lower tiers in general have more trade offs. :c
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Nah, it's Snake, Olimar and Wario. The others don't kill THAT easily. Diddy, Falco, MK (not to say he has trouble killing, but he isn't a KO machine either without great gimping) and maybe even Pikachu (not very sure how he fares in this department, though) have some trouble killing below 150%.

Also, I started using Fox. He's such an interesting character.
 
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