Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[Alphicans]

You're absolutely right there

 

[-LzR-]

G&W already ridiculous smashes are impossibly hard to avoid in doubles with good team play. Especially when teamed up with someone who can fill a bucket. He is damn amazing. Shame I don't like doubles.

 

[Damittom]

Nah best doubles team is double . Epic team Tech Chasing all day long.

Real talk tho.

SS.
S.
A.
B.

imo

 

[-LzR-]

Why is Lucario there?

 

[Damittom]

Lucario's Aurora is broken in doubles. All you gotta do is have your teammate stock-tank


[COLLAPSE="Data"]

[size=medium]Doubles Aura[/size]

this is where it gets a little less simple. In doubles your teammate is treated as an opponent. This fact is why the Anubis strategy works. In addition an opponent that's out still counts towards aura. If Lucario has 1 stock and someone dies, that counts as Lucario having a 1 stock lead on them.

if every opponent has more stocks (or as many stocks) as Lucario strength will change only by the difference of the person with the most stocks/ the biggest lead relative to Lucario (we'll call this N1)

N1 (stock) strength change
-2 or more x8/4 (=x2) <-- YES THIS SAYS X2
-1 x8/6
±0 x8/8 (=x1)

this basically means, if you have 1 stock, your teammate has 3 stocks, and no one is dead yet, when you are at 0% it will look like this

0% damage multiplier= .7
.7 x 2.0 stock multiplier= 1.4
so basically at 0% Lucario will be as strong as he is at 170% even stocks. this is why the Anubis works. (keep in mind however the overall multiplier is always between 0.6 and 1.8)



if every opponent has less or equal stocks to Lucario. the only one that matters is who's losing by the most. again, we set this relative to Lucario (we'll use N3 for this)
N3 (stock) strength change
±0 x8/8 (=x1)
+1 x8/10
+2 or more x8/12


one person has more stocks than lucario but one has less, strength will change only by the value of the person ahead by the most and the one behind by the most.

(N3 being the one losing and N1 being the leader)

strength change = *8/k
k = ( -4N1 + 12N3 ) / ( -N1 + N3 )

here are some examples of this calculation...

example:
*1P(red Lucario) 2P(red) 3P(blue) 4P(blue) has 3, 6, 2, 2 stocks left.

red team : 3+6=9 stocks (in advantage)
blue team : 2+2=4 stocks

N1 = 3-6 = -3
N2 = 3-2 = 1
N3 = 3-2 = 1

N1 < 0 < N3, so...
strength change = 8/k

　　k＝[−4x(−3)＋12x1]/[−(−3)＋1]
　　　＝(12＋12)/4
　　　＝24/4＝6

thus, attack power is multiplied by 8/6 (increasing)


*1P(red lucario) 2P(red) 3P(blue) 4P(blue) has 4, 1, 5, 5 stocks left.

red team : 4+1= 5 stocks (in disadvantage)
blue team : 5+5=10 stocks

N1 = 4-5 = -1
N2 = 4-5 = -1
N3 = 4-1 = 3

N1 < 0 < N3, so...
strength change = 8/k

　　k＝[−4x(−1)＋12x3]/[−(−1)＋3]
　　　＝(4＋36)/4
　　　＝40/4＝10

thus, attack power is multiplied by 8/10 (decreasing)

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Rizen]

I thought the Anubis thing was good but there are better strategies that overshadow it.

 

[Zano]

Tell that to m2k and trela

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Skill>Strategy

I personally love GnW+ZSS. She stuns and gives gnw a charge. Repeat x3 and then there goes a low percent stock.

And dual rob is just funny.

 

[-LzR-]

Doubles is all about spamming your strongest tactics safely by being protected by your teammate. There is a reason I hate em.

 

[Rizen]

^Some people have crazy good team combos.
What often holds me down is having to not hit my partner. I think that's the idea of Anubis; 1(+partner interruptions when needed) and a great planker/stocktank vs 2 does better than a strait 2vs2. Lucario's Aura is really nice and Lucario is a good character too but great planking is the ace up the sleeve.

Tell that to m2k and trela

At SKTAR? That's a good point but I think they played better and MK's planking was the larger part of the tactic.
Without MK I wonder how well Anubis would work now. But I'm not great with team experience so this is me speculating.

@ Damittom, why do you think Ness/Lucas are so high? 'Just curious.

 

[-LzR-]

I just don't fine doubles to be as competitive as singles. Even good players will get hit by all the bull**** free smashes from characters like G&W. Not that it doesn't take some skill, but it's still dumb.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I just don't fine doubles to be as competitive as singles. Even good players will get hit by all the bull**** free smashes from characters like G&W. Not that it doesn't take some skill, but it's still dumb.

Seriously?

Doubles is probably MORE competitive than singles, bro.

Honestly all that **** Mekos spouts about teamwork mattering more than individual skill in teams is true.

Doubles seems shallow if you think it's 2 1v1 battles

but with a team of players who understand the fundamentals of team play and are also skilled on their own accord it take the game to a whole 'nother level of reading and tech skill.

Honestly you just must not watch doubles because it's very apparent especially if you see teams with good team work like Esam+Mekos, Trela+MK, The japanese MKs (ESPECIALLY THIS), Zac+Razer, Boss+Chu, etc etc

granted more people care about singles because that's where you separate the big boys from the scrubs but teams is nothing to scoff at, and it's a shame people have that opinion about teams not being important.

I don't practice teams much but I definitely have respect for good doubles play, you really should watch Teevee+ Blackanese vs Anti+M2K or any of the Apex vids with the japanese double MKs

 

[-LzR-]

In teams you can safely use a lot of laggy and strong moves and ****. It's not like it's bad, but I feel singles are way better in terms of skill. And I just dislike doubles.

 

[SFA Smiley]

In teams you can safely use a lot of laggy and strong moves and ****. It's not like it's bad, but I feel singles are way better in terms of skill. And I just dislike doubles.

It's not like it's randomly safe though, it's safe because your partner is pressuring the team in a way that makes it safe.

That's the point. it's not 2 1v1 battles it's 2v2 it has it's own metagame. Things in singles that are safe are no longer safe, things that are unsafe are now safe it's it's own beast and honestly your annoyance with doubles just sounds like you're playing it like singles which is precisely why it seems dumb. If you have a steady partner who you practice with regularly and research doubles more you probably won't feel that way. You sound more ignorant right now than opinionated. And I'm not trying to sound demeaning or biased (I honestly don't care i suck at doubles and don't really take offense to your opinion on it)

but it's just based on... inexperience? and it's clear. It's not really your fault though if you don't care about doubles you're probably not going to know much about it.

 

[Damittom]

@ Damittom, why do you think Ness/Lucas are so high? 'Just curious.

Ness/Lucas have obvious shortcomings in singles. A predictable recovery and terrible grab release to name a few. In doubles those shortcomings play less of a part in the game and they also gain a nifty healing ability.

However, they are still not on par with other top characters they just gain a buff

 

[SFA Smiley]

Ness/Lucas have obvious shortcomings in singles. A predictable recovery and terrible grab release to name a few. In doubles those shortcomings play less of a part in the game and they also gain a nifty healing ability.

However, they are still not on par with other top characters they just gain a buff

I think Ness and Lucas have pretty good roles in doubles.

For Lucas what I think makes him such a threat in dubs is the amount of space he controls with his large hitboxes

Gdubs does that same

For Ness I think it's a mixture of that to a smaller extent as well as his main problems (grab releases and recovery) being put on the backburner because he has another character's support. Those are the main things that hurt him and they aren't as big of a factor in doubles which allows him to shine.

I hate how Bowser is so worthless in doubles though =/

@Rizen. The planking is THE WHOLE point. of the strat. It allows Lucario to just get stronger and stronger every time he dies.

 

[Damittom]

Best doubles team tho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu0ir2GdAro&feature=plcp

 

[-LzR-]

I've played quite a lot of doubles. I've had a lot of success and made money with Vurky. It's just that I don't like how it works and ****. Singles so much better.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Does anyone have a video of the backwards jump cancel u-smash? I can't even remotely wrap my head around that.

I agree. I didn't get Happyface's explanation very well.

 

[Rizen]

@Rizen. The planking is THE WHOLE point. of the strat. It allows Lucario to just get stronger and stronger every time he dies.

Right, that's what I said. Lucario happens to work well with a planker but he's not the point. MK's really the key and could plank with other partners; they wouldn't get the aura boost but good dubz characters like Wario could live forever and deal a ton of damage without it. MK planks ridiculously well.
My comment about SKTAR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsFdE1NkAlk&feature=autoplay&list=PL625E0B13DF5D74BC&playnext=1
was that the other team didn't handle the situation well by having G&W try to take on planking MK and by going 2 vs 1 vs Lucario. And they were out-played.
tl;dr MK planking's broken, not aura, in the strategy.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Right, that's what I said. Lucario happens to work well with a planker but he's not the point. MK's really the key and could plank with other partners; they wouldn't get the aura boost but good dubz characters like Wario could live forever and deal a ton of damage without it. MK planks ridiculously well.
My comment about SKTAR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsFdE1NkAlk&feature=autoplay&list=PL625E0B13DF5D74BC&playnext=1
was that the other team didn't handle the situation well by having G&W try to take on planking MK and by going 2 vs 1 vs Lucario. And they were out-played.
tl;dr MK planking's broken, not aura, in the strategy.

You're terribly wrong.

Why would WARIO of all characters do well in a 2v1 situation given that he's the most susceptible character to Grab releases in the game.

The strat is good because of Lucario's Aura. There are very few characters in the game that are better off fighting 2 characters alone than lucario if there are really any at all. MK's planking is just giving Lucario 5 stocks to work with. THAT is the point.

Edit: @Swei http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ_LV8N61xM

Ike at 2:04 does it

You dash, then pivot jump and before the animation starts you charge Usmash. That's it. It just allows you to Usmash with the back of your head (where the hitbox begins) first

 

[Rizen]

You're terribly wrong.

Why would WARIO of all characters do well in a 2v1 situation given that he's the most susceptible character to Grab releases in the game.

The strat is good because of Lucario's Aura. There are very few characters in the game that are better off fighting 2 characters alone than lucario if there are really any at all. MK's planking is just giving Lucario 5 stocks to work with. THAT is the point.

Because MK can interrupt grabs and it works with a lot of partner characters.

I think that's the idea of Anubis; 1(+partner interruptions when needed) and a great planker/stocktank vs 2 does better than a strait 2vs2.

I just said the other team shouldn't have fought Lucario 2 vs 1.

the other team didn't handle the situation well by having G&W try to take on planking MK and by going 2 vs 1 vs Lucario.

In singles most characters can't deal with MK's planking period. They take a ton of damage or a stock loss or have to wait out the clock. Lucario can be fought at any Aura boost; he does get a nice boost but it's doable. There's no limit rule to Lucario's Aura. Edge grabs have rules.
MK's broken is the point. There are good plankers and then there's MK. 6 mid-air jumps, Uair, tornado, stage circling, 4 recoveries, a glide; MK's planking is god tier.

I'm not saying Anubis is bad at all but Lucario's getting too much credit when MK's broken planking is the reason it works and could create a similar strategy with other characters too.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Because MK can interrupt grabs and it works with a lot of partner characters.

I just said the other team shouldn't have fought Lucario 2 vs 1.

In singles most characters can't deal with MK's planking period. They take a ton of damage or a stock loss or have to wait out the clock. Lucario can be fought at any Aura boost; he does get a nice boost but it's doable. There's no limit rule to Lucario's Aura. Edge grabs have rules.
MK's broken is the point. There are good plankers and then there's MK. 6 mid-air jumps, Uair, tornado, stage circling, 4 recoveries, a glide; MK's planking is god tier.

I'm not saying Anubis is bad at all but Lucario's getting too much credit when MK's broken planking is the reason it works and could create a similar strategy with other characters too.

Cool story bro, when there is actual DATA of this being successful with anyone but Lucario lemme know, because this has been an effective strat since 2008 and seeing as nobody has ever done this successfully against other top players or even attempted to with another character (because it wouldn't work) it's safe to conclude that people are just smart enough to know that

People were doing this long before MK's planking became relevant. With Wario+Lucario teams

I swear, ya'll will blame MK for EVERYTHING. How about we just get better. Vinnie did.

 

[Alphicans]

MK makes that strategy work way better than any other partner, but that's because he's the most capable of keeping his stocks while also having an incredible safe assist game making lucario's aura boost very broken. I'd say it's a pretty even share of credit for both characters in terms of who makes the team good.

 

[Damittom]

In reality the anubis could work with any character that can plank its just easier with mk but still viable with other plankers such as wario or gw

 

[SFA Smiley]

In reality the anubis could work with any character that can plank its just easier with mk but still viable with other plankers such as wario or gw

That.

On less angry/confrontational discussion.

Lee Puff, man.

Watchign his videos again.

And I must say: yes.

 

[-LzR-]

GW Lucario is much better than with MK.
GW is also an amazing planker and he can also get a 0 death bucket along with it to only make things even deadlier. Teams like that are the reason doubles are lame as ****.

 

[Rizen]

Cool story bro, when there is actual DATA of this being successful with anyone but Lucario lemme know, because this has been an effective strat since 2008 and seeing as nobody has ever done this successfully against other top players or even attempted to with another character (because it wouldn't work) it's safe to conclude that people are just smart enough to know that

People were doing this long before MK's planking became relevant. With Wario+Lucario teams

I swear, ya'll will blame MK for EVERYTHING. How about we just get better. Vinnie did.

The winning team almost ALWAYS includes a MK but not necessarily Lucario. You're tip-toeing around saying that MK's planking isn't broken. If you like data, you should know how much more MK wins in every category than every other character and what stages were banned and rules made just to keep him.

Somehow this turned into an 'MK ban' discussion. 'Get better' always comes up, like MK hasn't dominated every tier list and been banned by unity rules because he's not broken. Then high tier players give low tier players BS for using characters who can't ultimately win (which is true, sadly). I use Wolf/G&W boarderline, PT low-mid and Link/Ganon/Zelda lowest tier. By 'get better' people usually mean 'play high tiers' because nobody likes lower characters than borderline even when they win -3 and -4MUs.

Spoiler

Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME5OhTdtFVE&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJWssorrTmo&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QvrPS80bD8&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b7vnz8eyMA&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPfCVCBJlXQ&feature=plcp
Zelda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yIEyerr4dg&feature=plcp

MK breaks the CP system, takes half the winning$, has no bad MUs, does well on every stage and completely murders on several, and is consistently ranked highest, top tier (everyone else moves a bit) and it's not because non-MK players of any tier are worse and need to get better. Tiers show how good/bad a character is, not a player. MK players have skill too; I'm not saying they're any worse for their character choice. MK's broken though; he's the only character I've said that about.
'Get better', try winning with only Triforce H tiers.

MK makes that strategy work way better than any other partner, but that's because he's the most capable of keeping his stocks while also having an incredible safe assist game making lucario's aura boost very broken. I'd say it's a pretty even share of credit for both characters in terms of who makes the team good.

^ This is a good point.

 

[Damittom]

I'm sorry your so wrong about mk ill explain later when I'm not at work/ on my phone

 

[Rizen]

Facepalm, big time

Wrong?
Consistently top tier? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=321738 yes
consistent wins?

Spoiler

Reading through the threads on Smashboards, I recently came across an argument involving the success of characters at national tournaments. This idea sparked my interest, so I took it upon myself to search for the results of players and characters at nationals.

This does not take into account how much one player used a character, but only if they used them. So, if the character is by their name in the results thread then it is counted. One tournament, however, did not put character usage and I am unaware on who some of those players are. If anyone knows the official character usage for FAST1 then please let me know.

This is not the final version. This is active and will change with upcoming nationals. If there are any I missed, please tell me. Also, I one day hope to include international nationals (say that five times fast) so tell me any results that could apply.

[COLLAPSE="Tournaments used"]
Apex 2012, 2010, and 2008
WHOBO 1,2, and 3
MLG Dallas, DC, Orlando, Columbus, and Raleigh
FAST1
Genesis 1 and 2
SNES
Pound 4 and 5
Clash of the Titans 4

[...]

[COLLAPSE="First place characters"]
-9
-5
-4
-1
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Second place characters"]
-8
-6
-3
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Third place characters"]
-12
-2
-2
-2
- 1
-1
-1
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Fourth place characters"]
-9
-4
-4
-3
-3
-2
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Fifth/Sixth place characters"]
-12
-6
-5
-4
-3
-2
-2
-2
-1
-1
-1
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Seven/Eighth place characters"]
-11
-5
-4
-4
-3
-3
-2
-2
-2
-2
-2
-1
-1
-1
-1
[/COLLAPSE]

-Surprise, surprise! But, Meta Knight is the top character chosen for all placements. The lowest placement he has been in is second place, only making it there 8 times.
-Meta Knight and Snake are the only characters to appear in all placements.
-The are less characters that have made second than first.
-The lone Toon Link was played by Lee Martin.
-Lee Martin holds all the placements for Lucario and Toon Link, ChuDat has the only Kirby, Will has the Donkey Kong, Nick Riddle owns all the Zero Suit Samus placements, Reflex has the Pokemon Trainer one, and Vinnie has the only Mr. Game and Watch placement.
-The highest placing mid-tier character is Pokemon Trainer (Maybe. Again I cannot officially count FAST1). Without FAST1, it is Sonic and Luigi.
-All characters in high tier or above have been in the top 3.
-No low tier character has been in top 8.
-Along with the low tier characters, other characters that have never seen the light of top 8 are Wolf, Fox, Peach, Pit, R.O.B, Ike, Sheik, Yoshi, and Ness.
-Olimar, Pikachu, and Wario are the only top tier characters never to win a national. Even then, Pikachu and Wario (potentially) have never seen second.

[/collapse]
$?

Spoiler

Alright, reboot of the old Success and Popularity thread, let's go!

In this thread, we'll be keeping track of how much money is won by each character in the game, and how often each character is used in tournament gameplay! We'll be focusing mainly on tournaments that have Meta Knight banned for this year's data collection, but we'll still continue to pay attention to MK Legal Tournaments.

By popular request, this data doesn't include the first weekend of January - the weekend of Apex.

How to read the charts:
- "Full Split" indicates that, if a player was mentioned as winning money with more than one character, the player's winnings will be evenly distributed among his or her characters.
- "No Split" indicates that, if a player was mentioned as winning money with more than one character, the player's winnings will NOT be evenly distributed among his or her characters.
- "Average" is the average of "Full Split" and "No Split."

MK Banned Tournaments

MK Legal Tournaments

If, for some reason you cannot view the images properly, try Right Clicking them and hitting "View Image," and it'll make them show up in their original size, although Smashboard's coding allows users to view images at full size by simply clicking on them nowadays.

Banned by Unity rules? Special rules made just to keep MK?

Spoiler

The Unity Ruleset​

-Version 2.0-​

______________________________​

The following ruleset was created by the Unity Ruleset Committee, which is made up by active, respected Tournament Organizers from around the United States and Canada. This will be considered the standard, universal ruleset for Brawl tournaments across the US and Canada. Any tournaments that do not follow this ruleset will not be eligible for stickies on SWF or featured coverage on AllisBrawl.

Changes to this ruleset can be made at any time and without warning, for which we will update the version based on the significance of the change. The Ruleset Committee will pay close attention to tournament trends, and if a persistent problem presents itself, the Ruleset Committee will address the issue and adapt the ruleset as necessary. If you are interested in being admitted to the URC, send your tournament resume to AlphaZealot (or any Unity Ruleset Member) - you must however, have run 1 tournament with the Unity Ruleset in order to be eligible for admission.

If you wish to run a slightly modified version of the Unity Ruleset at your event for the purposes of testing while keeping all benefits of using the Unity Ruleset - you may now take advantage of the Experimental Ruleset System! You can find full details of this system in this thread here, at this post.

General Gameplay Rules

1. 3 Stocks
2. 8 Minute Time Limit
3. Items set to "Off" and "None"
4. Pause set to "Off"
5. Meta Knight is banned in both Singles and Doubles (optional until January 9th, 2012, after which is mandatory)
6. All infinites and chain grabs are legal.
7. There is a 50 Ledge Grab Limit for all characters. If a game goes to time and one player goes over the Ledge Grab Limit for their character, they will automatically lose the game. If both players exceed their Ledge Grab Limit, then this rule is ignored.
8. The act of stalling is banned: stalling is intentionally making the game unplayable: Such as becoming invisible, continuing infinites, chain grabs, or uninterruptible moves past 300%, and reaching a position that your opponent can never reach you.
9. Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.
10. If the Ledge Grab Limit does not declare one player the winner, the winner will be declared by what the game says in all situations, except for when players are presented with sudden death:
    • In the event of a match going to time, the winner will be determined by who has less percent (stock difference still takes priority but will be shown in the results screen).
    • If the match ends with both players dying at the same time (either coincidentally or via suicide move) or if time ran out with both players at equal percent, a one stock three minute rematch will be played on the same stage. For a tie-breaker match, a Ledge Grab Limit of 18 is used for all characters.

In the event of running a Meta Knight Legal event, the following must be used:

1. Meta Knight's Infinite Cape Glitch and Extended Cape Glitch are banned.
2. There is a Ledge Grab Limit of 35 for Meta Knight.
3. For a tie-breaker match, a Ledge Grab Limit of 13 is used for Meta Knight.

Modified Rules for Doubles

1. Team Attack set to "On"
2. Life stealing is allowed.
3. In the event of a game reaching the time limit, if a single player on a team exceeds their Ledge Grab Limit, that team loses. If one or more players on both teams exceed their Ledge Grab Limit, then the Ledge Grab Limit rule is ignored.
4. In the event of a game going to time and the Ledge Grab Limit can not determine a winner and both teams have an equal amount of combined stocks, then whichever team has a lower combined percent is declared the winner.
5. If a player is using the character Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, or Sonic, either team may request that team colors be changed to make it easier to tell the difference between team players.

Set Procedure

1. Player Priority is determined if it can not be agreed on. (See below for details)
2. Each Team selects one controller port to use for each Player.
3. Each Team selects one character for each Player. A double blind pick may be called by any player.
4. The first game is played on a Stage selected from the Starter Stage List either by mutual consent or through the Stage Striking Method. The order of stage striking will be 2-3-1 (Team 1 strikes two stages, followed by Team 2 striking three stages, with Team 1 then striking one of the two remaining stages).
5. The first match is played.
6. The team that lost the previous match may opt to re-pick controller ports (with themselves picking first).
7. The Team that won the previous match may announce one "Stage Ban" if they have not already done so in this set.
8. The Team that lost the previous match announces the stage for the next match from either the Starter or the Counterpick Stage List. Any Stage named as a "Stage Ban" by the either Team may not be selected. No Stage may be used by a Team that has already won on that Stage in this set.
9. The Team that won the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
10. The Team that lost the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
11. The next match is played.
12. Repeat steps 6-11 for all proceeding matches.

Determining Player Priority
If there is a dispute in controller port selection or initiating Stage Strike use the following method:
Teams will use a random method such as Rock-Paper-Scissors, Coin Flip, or Game and Watch Judgment, where the winner selects either first choice in port selection or first choice in stage striking. Whichever team does not receive first choice in port selection will be compensated with first choice in stage striking.
Note: In Doubles, port selection is ordered 1-2-2-1 fashion (with Team-1 having first choice in controller slot select, Team-2 having both second and third choice, and the final slot going to Team-1).​

Stage List

Starters | Counterpicks
Battlefield|Battleship Halberd
Castle Siege|Brinstar
Final Destination|Delfino Plaza
Lylat Cruise|Pokémon Stadium 2
Pokemon Stadium 1|Rainbow Cruise
Smashville|Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)|

Conduct Rules

1. BYOC (Bring your own controller): Players are expected to bring their own controller and be prepared for every tournament set.
2. In the event pause is left on accidentally and is pressed, immediately call over the TO. Based upon their judgment, the situation will be resolved. If your situation is neutral [players are not in combat], the match will be resumed as if the pause had not occurred. If your situation is advantageous to one individual and the player in the disadvantageous situation paused, the disadvantaged player will be either placed in a grab or onto the ledge of the stage. If a player in a death situation [Chain grabs, Grab releases, Jab-locks to a kill move, etc] paused while in a death situation, the current stock is forfeited immediately. If you unpause before the TO reaches the station, the player that unpaused losses a stock.
3. During gameplay, any coaching parties must remain a finite distance determined by the TO away from the players in order to give players equal access to all coached information. Ear-side coaching is prohibited during games, but acceptable between games. Failure to adhere to this will lead to punishment at the TO's discretion, which could include the coach's removal from the venue or a call to replay the game that the coaching interfered with.
4. Players who use the Wii Remote must take the batteries out of the Wii Remote when not playing. If the Wii Remote is still synced up to a Wii with the batteries in, you could unintentionally disrupt a match. If problems persist, a DQ may happen.
5. You are responsible for your own controller and name tag. Any malfunctions or errors that occur are your responsibility (including battery issues with a Wii Remote), so bring an extra controller if possible and always check to make sure you're using the correct settings BEFORE a match is played. Both parties need to agree if a match is to be paused or restarted because of these problems.
6. Intentional forfeiting, match fixing, splitting, and any other forms of bracket manipulation are not allowed and punishable by the TO.
7. No substitutions are allowed for singles or doubles.
8. DQ Rule: Arriving too late for a match will result in a DQ. Player(s) will have 5 minutes to show up before a loss of the first match. 5 more minutes results in a loss of the set. For doubles, both players on a team need to be present in order to play.
9. The tournament organizer has the right to save/record any tournament match if possible and has the right to upload said match.
10. Regarding textures and other game hacks:
    • Players may request that any texture, stage, or other hacks be disabled during a tournament set. If this is unable to be done, they may switch to a different setup if available.
    • The URC recommends players do not use intrusive texture and stage hacks.
    • Players are not allowed to use any game altering hacks, such as no-tripping or model hacks. If someone is caught setting up a system they brought with such hacks enabled can face punishment at the TO's discretion.
11. Disrupting your opponent physically or intending to disrupt their play (through something such as screaming in a player's ear) will result in a warning. Repeated action will result in disqualification from the tournament and possibly ejection from the venue. Observers who physically disrupt players are to be dealt with as the Tournament Organiser sees fit. Disqualification is recommended if possible, and ejection from the venue is also a punishment.

Resolving Pool Ties
In the event two or more players are tied at the conclusion of a round of pools at a Unity Ruleset tournament, the following process will be done:

Players will be compared with each other on various criteria in this ordered precedence:

1. Set Wins
2. Head to Head
3. Wins
4. Losses
5. One Game Rematch

If players are still tied on a step, you move down to the next one. For instance, if Player A and B both go 3-2 in sets in a round of pools, you will then proceed to the Head to Head step (who won the set between those players). Whoever won vs the other will proceed at the top of the tie.

If Head to Head can not decide a tie, then you would move down to the Wins step. This may occur in a three way tie where all three players defeated each other (however note that if one person in a three way tie defeats both other players, then the Head to Head comparison will be used).

If the tie breaker reaches all the way to the One Game Rematch step, this game will play out similar to the first game of any set (though doing best of one), where users will stage strike for the stage, and may double blind characters.

If at any point a tie of three or more players is partially resolved, still leaving two or more players tied, the tie between the remaining players will be decided by starting the tie breaker process over for them. For instance, if in a three way tie in the Wins step, one player has six wins while the others have 5, the player with 6 wins will be the top of the 3. The remaining two players will start back at Sets Wins to determine who is higher between the two instead of proceeding onto the Losses step right away.

•These rules are subject to change leading up to the event date. The Tournament Organizer reserves the right to remove you from the venue at his discretion for any reason.

•The Tournament Organizer and his assistents, and any persons helping run the event may not be held liable for any lost, stolen, or damaged goods during this event. Nor will the Tournament Organizer, the venue, its owners, affiliates, employees, members, sponsors, or volunteers be held liable or responsible for any injury or harm that may befall a person during the course of this event. By entering the venue during the posted date you are displaying your agreement with this policy.

Users can discuss this ruleset in the thread provided here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301033


The Unity Ruleset Infraction System can be found here.

A list of all members of the Unity Ruleset Committee can be found here.

__________________________________________________

This thread is for discussion of the BBR-RC Unity Ruleset.

Unity Ruleset Change Log

v1.0 - Ruleset released.


v1.1 - Pictochat is now banned.

Pause rule edited to include a harsher punishment for a player who pauses during a bad situation (such as recoveries).​

Infinite/Stalling rules slightly edited for clarity.​

A player disruption conduct rule added.​

Two clauses added to protect TOs and venue owners.​

v1.2 - New player infraction system implemented. Yellow & Red Cards introduced.


v1.3 - 5 stage starter list changed to 7 stage starter list, with PS1 and Castle Siege being the two new stages.

v2.0 - Meta Knight is Banned. Pause rule is changed and set to "Off". Player Priority changed. Coaching rule changed. Pools tie breakers added.

^MK has less ledge grabs than other characters in rules where he's legal.
No bad MUs?

Spoiler

v1: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298484

This is the second version of the BBR matchup chart, which displays ratings of all matchups in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Aside from scores that changed as opposed to v1, there are some procedural changes for this iteration.

While we worked with panels again, we also asked outsiders for help and gave them access to a subforum created specifically for this project. Although not everyone invited took this opportunity to do their part, overall character representation was better than for v1. In the end we had close to 150 people participating from both inside and outside the BBR, making this the first major Smashboards project that can be seen as a community effort. I’d like to thank all panel leaders and Ankoku, ESAM, Ishieymoro, Krystedez, Red Ryu, Shaya, Slhoka, Twinkie and Zigsta in particular for their help with finalizing scores and preparing the final release.

A common complaint with v1 is that the scores by itself don’t tell you how to play the matchup. While we still won’t likely cover all ~700 matchups in the game, there is an initial batch of writeups included. We would like to ask you, the public, to list what matchups you would most like to see writeups on and we will attempt to add them over time. Furthermore, if you are willing to do a writeup of your own or update an existing one, feel free to send me a PM. This also goes for any mistakes and inconsistencies you might spot, as most of this is the result of manual labour.

Sheilda is still treated as its own entity in order to be consistent with the tier list and v1. The combination does better than either Sheik or Zelda individually in a few matchups, these have been marked with a * in her individual spread.

Finally, some information with regards to reading the chart. This time around characters in the main chart are ordered by their average score against the rest of the cast, as tier lists get outdated and it makes more sense this way. At the end of every line of scores you will find the number of winning, losing and even matchups for that character, as well as their average score and difference in placement with the current tier list (BBR tier list v6.0). You will also find that characters within the individual spreads, found below the chart, are ordered by alphabet. There are some exceptions: these panels internally agreed on an order of difficulty, with left being hardest and right being easiest within any given tier of matchup difficulty.



Note that for all scores a competitive level of play is assumed and the performance of top and high level players was generally considered more strongly than what is seen in lower level play. Keep in mind that the chart does not necessarily reflect the opinions and performances of absolute outliers and is ultimately a consensus between people who are assumed to know their character. Furthermore, the Unity ruleset was kept in mind.

The Matchup Chart​

Bigger version here: http://m2eila.fr/smash/tier_lists/brawl_matchup_chart_v2/brawl_matchup_chart_public_v2_1024.png



[collapse=Individual Character Spreads]
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[/collapse]

Norfair was banned because MK could 'V' under the stage for unstoppable planking. I think Cornairia's fin planking was the main reason it was banned too.

___________________________________________________________________

So stop acting like people who don't play MK are less skilled; it ****es me off. MK's obviously broken. Try looking at facts rather than bashing people, when you don't even know their skill, who say he is broken.

 

[-LzR-]

Only Brinstar and RC have been banned because of MK AFAIK.

 

[overgamer]

Only Brinstar and RC have been banned because of MK AFAIK.

On the new french ruleset, MK cannot CP these two stage as well as Delfino while others can.
Oh gowd, MK has 1 even MU, how is that possible rofl.

 

[Damittom]

You're tip-toeing around saying that MK's planking isn't broken.

Mk's planking is not broken, its the games mechanics. With an extremely large amount of invicibility frames awarded to the player who grabs the ledge planking in general is broken. Wario can plank, Game and Watch can plank, DK can plank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0r0DkNiqxc even olimar can plank. MK's planking is not broken planking is broken.

If you like data, you should know how much more MK wins in every category than every other character and what stages were banned and rules made just to keep him.

MK has no projectile, no chaingrab, a limited kill potential (at top levels only downsmash is a reliable kill move other than gimping)

Somehow this turned into an 'MK ban' discussion. 'Get better' always comes up, like MK hasn't dominated every tier list

Although MK has always been at the top of the tier lists that is much different from saying he dominates them. In only two tier lists has he ever been in "SS" or "God" Tier, (only two of seven showing him dominating)

and been banned by unity rules because he's not broken.

Unity banned him because at the time its the URC believe was best for the community, not what was necessarily true. During Prohibition the government banned Alcohol because they believed it was best for society.

Then high tier players give low tier players BS for using characters who can't ultimately win (which is true, sadly). I use Wolf/G&W boarderline, PT low-mid and Link/Ganon/Zelda lowest tier. By 'get better' people usually mean 'play high tiers' because nobody likes lower characters than borderline even when they win -3 and -4MUs.

Top players could care less what character you use. In fact at the highest level of play character choice and counter picking play less of a part than individual player skill look at players such as Reflex or FOW that have single handedly moved characters up the tier list.
Mediocre players give you a hard time about playing a bad character for 1 of 2 reasons.
1. they want you to succeed and see that it is easier with a "good character"
2. they are afraid to lose to a 'bad character" with a "good character"

MK breaks the CP system

This is false. The CP system breaks MK. we have already proven through the Japanese stage list and other conservative rulesets that we can make an enviornment where MK is possibly not the best character and has his "thrown" at the top threatened. Without stages that "buff" MK other characters such as Olimar, ICs, Diddy, Falco, Snake, can defeat MK on his counter pick.

takes half the winning$

This is simply because 35% of players play MK. If 35% of players could play Olimar, ICs, or Diddy at a Competitive level those characters would also take half the winnings.

has no bad MUs does well on every stage and completely murders on several, and is consistently ranked highest, top tier (everyone else moves a bit) and it's not because non-MK players of any tier are worse and need to get better. Tiers show how good/bad a character is, not a player.

The Match-up chart is based on the Unity Ruleset which with its counter-picking system gives MK a much easier time. On neutrals and conservative counterpicks MK loses to Olimar and ICs. and goes even with Fox, Diddy, and Pikachu.

Tiers DO NOT show how good/bad a character is, they show how much of a threat it is in the current metagame.

MK players have skill too; I'm not saying they're any worse for their character choice. MK's broken though; he's the only character I've said that about.
'Get better', try winning with only Triforce H tiers.

^ This is a good point.

MK players do in fact have skill but the reason MK is broken is not because he is the best character in the game its because he is the easiest character to get to a top level.

MK has tools to make him top tier but so do others such as ICs, Olimar, Diddy, Snake, Falco and others. MK's tools are simply easier to master. There is a reason why you don't see as many pocket Diddys or ICs as Mk or any pocket Olimars for that matter. The reason is because they take such a larger amount of work to get to the top level.

Tl;dr

MK is not "broken" he may be one of the best characters in the game but not a God among men. MK is simply the easiest character master at a top level, especially with counter pick heavy rulesets. However, that does not make him dominate it just makes him more common. IF and only IF he was as good to the point he was dominate and bannable then there would be no Ally's Snake, no Dabuz's Olimar, no Vinnie's ICs, no Esam's Pikachu, no DEHF's Falco, no ADHD's Diddy, no Mike Haze's Marth.

PS. I am not going to argue these points. If you have questions about them feel free to ask, but I am not in the mood to argue with people who have no intention of changing their mind. In other words I don't want to argue over opinions, only facts.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I heard Snake is awesome in 2 vs. 1.

 

[SFA Smiley]

ITT: Still complaining about MK

just play the ****ing game, if you're only using triforce tier characters it's your fault. This game is not balanced and you know it. Instead of playing it in an intelligent way and balancing more than a bunch of bad characters you yell and complain at everyone else for using good characters. If you don't like it, oh well, stop playing. That's what wins you matches. Reflex and FOW are perfect examples of low tier mains who understand the game enough ti become top players while still balancing a bad character.

You've already lost with your self-defeating mindset. Just play, dude.

 

[Rizen]

Mk's planking is not broken, its the games mechanics.

MK has a much smaller edge grab limit. No other character has this limitation. The fact the you think MK's planking isn't broken alone makes me see how pointless talking to you about this is. Limited killing potential, not dominating the tier list (but staying in the same, highest place), what's best for the community is banning MK (see the poll http://allisbrawl.com/ ) only a few MK players think otherwise, your prohibition reference is invalid, top players don't care about characters IDK why you mentioned that, MK's top in Japan too and characters need CPs hence MK wrecking the CP system- you just admitted it.

The Match-up chart is based on the Unity Ruleset which with its counter-picking system gives MK a much easier time. On neutrals and conservative counterpicks MK loses to Olimar and ICs. and goes even with Fox, Diddy, and Pikachu.

MK wrecks the CP system. That's exactly what you just said and MK wins on neutrals too.
Tiers are a good way to judge how good characters are and MK's been on top the entire time.

MK is not "broken" he may be one of the best characters in the game but not a God among men. MK is simply the easiest character master at a top level, especially with counter pick heavy rulesets. However, that does not make him dominate it just makes him more common.

MK breaks the CP system and has no bad MUs. Your 'god among men' reference has no place in this debate. Look at the money MK's won, he dominates and isn't common enough to justify that much profit. Being better than every other character, making that much more, staying on top, wrecking the CP system which you admitted many times=dominating.

IF and only IF he was as good to the point he was dominate and bannable then there would be no Ally's Snake, no Dabuz's Olimar, no Vinnie's ICs, no Esam's Pikachu, no DEHF's Falco, no ADHD's Diddy, no Mike Haze's Marth.

MK has been banned. Why are you bring up all this?

PS. I am not going to argue these points. If you have questions about them feel free to ask, but I am not in the mood to argue with people who have no intention of changing their mind. In other words I don't want to argue over opinions, only facts.

Lol, you can't argue those points and don't have facts. I posted facts and links you posted opinions like 'IF and only IF he was as good to the point he was dominate and bannable then there would be no Ally's Snake', 'Unity banned him because at the time its the URC believe was best for the community, not what was necessarily true. During Prohibition the government banned Alcohol because they believed it was best for society.', 'we have already proven through the Japanese stage list and other conservative rulesets that we can make an enviornment where MK is possibly not the best character and has his "thrown" at the top threatened.'
BTW, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=316518
S+ tier MK.

 

[Damittom]

If your gonna quote me at least aknowledge the whole point not just the part you want to hear.

Also you people need to read between the lines stop blaiming mk for being the bad guy and find out what makes him "seem" like the bad guy

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Mk definitely is not bannable. He has low air speed, is light, and has no projectile. He is strong, and the best (although Ics are approaching his level) but he does not need to be banned.

 

[-LzR-]

On the new french ruleset, MK cannot CP these two stage as well as Delfino while others can.
Oh gowd, MK has 1 even MU, how is that possible rofl.

Wow what a surgical nerf. France has really outdone themselves this time.

 

[Rizen]

If your gonna quote me at least aknowledge the whole point not just the part you want to hear.

Also you people need to read between the lines stop blaiming mk for being the bad guy and find out what makes him "seem" like the bad guy

"You people"? Stop tip toeing around that MK breaks the CP system and the facts. ^This post is a diversionary tactic, like saying people who think MK's broken aren't good enough.

This always happens in these, you can't argue with the facts and go on a ridiculous side track while blindly blaming the other side with irrelevant BS and bashing them. MK supporters think they own the competitive game and everything should be catered to them. Good MKs even say he's broken.
I hate losing stages because MK, that a few people want to completely ignore all data and logic so they can wreck it for the majority and then say 'get better' or 'your wrong' and admit to MK wrecking the CP system. If ANYONE's going to bash my skill or say I'm wrong they better have a damn good reason which the counter argument doesn't.

Which I should mention happens in real political/environmental debates a lot and never changes the situation but makes it worse by intentional ignorance.

Spoiler

(One can't tolerate that diversionary ****. For example, (recent past) it's 107degrees f and only going to get hotter (which has already killed people), all of CO and UT has a fire warning or is burning, then someone says "maybe global warming was more than a climate change" and I think 'yeah, the pollution didn't magically disappear into the sky- which you ignored by ONLY looking at climate changes and not the POINT of global warming. People died and are homeless because you were unwilling to acknowledge hard facts and instead bashed us and now you want to pretend you weren't the problem for 40 years?! **** that. In 2030 how hot will it be, 120degrees?'
That's one of many things. So I have a Zer0 tolerance policy in debates, even of a lighter nature.)

Anyone who brings up MK's air speed or that he can't KO has never played a good MK.

PS Wolf has a decent MU vs MK; I'm not bashing MK because low tiers have trouble and I'm not bashing ICs, DDD or any character besides MK because they don't wreck the CP system.