Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Officially gettin back in the game, whee.

 

[-Ominous-]

Whee...





...I felt like someone should share your excitement...

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

That welcome wagon was too busy, so I came late, welcome! I hope you enjoy the most active character board ever! Cheers!

 

[SFA Smiley]

Lol @ Meow

Seriously the GW boards are NOT that dead, you obviously haven't been to any character boards that arent Peach and Marth. We have more discussion than a lot of other boards just because we have less people but are more passionate (or vice versa) towards the character

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

G&W is just fun.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Yea they aren't that bad, but definitely not above the average either.

 

[PentaSalia]

here's me taking my team from a possibly very commanding position to a losing position game 5 of grand finals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zGjJmuJE2B0#t=876s

you weren't even close to hitting them and on top of that, you were super late LOOOL.

sucks man,it happens

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah dude I just completely reacted way too late. My thought process was to hit them during the dsmash but I hesitated and then completely derped.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

since i've been gone, have we figured out this G&W fellow any better?

I'd assume not, since he's under wolf now (wow i've been gone forever it seems.)

Also, any Peach/D3/Oli advice in short? those seemed to be my biggest problems at my tourney on saturday

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Only pros think gaw suck. :D

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

We are just working on the Olimar matchup, I'm hoping to get through everyone, so the others will come a bit later down the road.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Peach

I wait for peach to be in the air and then I hit her.

That's how I win against her. As for D3, you can jump above him, then do a retreating backair on the top of his shield. If you don't understand what I mean, imagine your turtle is a handsaw and you're dragging it across the top of his shield. Doing it this way gives you enough momentum to land outside his grab range.

 

[ScareMl]

can somebody enlighten me? why is this character bad against marth? what does marth have that game and watch struggles with? basically, from your guys perspective, how is the MU played?

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Marth outranges GnW and kills him very early. He shuts down our approaches and we can't really stop his. Definitely one of the harder matchups for GnW

 

[Deleted member 189823]

But our B-Air has great range and priority. And he doesn't kill us early unless the TIPPER hits.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

His fair beats our bair. And good marths tipper all the time

 

[SFA Smiley]

can somebody enlighten me? why is this character bad against marth? what does marth have that game and watch struggles with? basically, from your guys perspective, how is the MU played?

Key factors to why this matchup is so painful

-He's faster/outspeeds us
-He's stronger/tippers/we're light
-We lose Up-B against him which is one of our best and useful moves because it just puts us above him which sucks because:
-His Uair beats our Dair
-He has good, KOing, Oos options which destroys Gdubs
-Being on the ledge versus marth is one of the most frustrating positions Gdubs can possibly be in period point plank.
-Counter actually works on GW because his main approaching options are commitments
-Can't even run away from him because of his air-speed, range, and our Up-B putting us above him which is worse than being in front of him.

It IS winnable however because

-People make mistakes, and GW has some of the strongest punishes in the game (MikeHaze whiffed an Up-B on me and I uair'd him and 9'd him. (inb4namesearch he still ***** me though))
-GW can juggle marth because Marth is weak from below
-GW gets outranged but not TOO terribly our Fair spaced correctly can trade with his in a positive way for us

You have to be patient. Very patient. It hard and aggravating MK is actually easier than Marth because he has properties for us to exploit but Marth is just handcrafted to shut us down (at least it feels like that when you play him)

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

fair beats pretty much everything we have
Marth just zones G&W really really hard and keeps us from getting in. G&W has to move in and out over and over and wait for a chance to commit. He has to go up, poke about, and then gtfo and reset the situation if he can't get in. Marth can just sit there and keep us at arm's length otherwise, something good Marths are good at. It's annoying.

 

[Rizen]

Only pros think gaw suck. :D

Lol, it's funny how that works for several not-so-great characters. The better you are the more you realize how bad they are.

imagine your turtle is a handsaw and you're dragging it across the top of his shield.

Turtle saw! I like this comparison (metaphor? Not a simile. Hhmmm...).


What everyone said about Marth.
G&W has several great traits but one thing I find frustrating is his lack of mix-up and mind game options. When another character shuts down his options they really cripple him.

 

[sambo400]

Yea, every blue moon I will mix it up and just go in with the turtle to mix it up against ddd. It looks like I'm going to retreat but then I just don't. Probably stupid, but it does catch my ddd friend off guard normally.

Marth just.. beats us in every way unless he screws up. I feel like our best stage is PS1 and RC or Brimstar if you can go there. I love playing vs MK because you can actually exploit him, but Marth is just silly. Vinnie said some things about playing marth in his video. Keep your Fair fresh for killing, and don't be afraid to retreat, since we can technically camp him. You just have to get him above you... which no good Marth will ever let happen, so I depend on my stages for that. PS1 every once and a while will just **** one of you over, and since were always kinda ****ed against marth, its a good trade for us.

Marth was the reason I was looking for a new character when I quit playing last time. I'm finally realizing that when a character is shutting you down, you just have to wait and look for any opportunity, as opposed to trying something new to get in.

 

[Dexident]

I hate the Marth MU so much. He's basically better in every way. The only thing that we have that he doesn't is being able to attack out of up-b and a projectile.

Too bad for us that our up-b lands us above or next to Marth which is the wrong lace for us to be. You're best off throwing a hammer or a n-air and just hope that the n-air connects or you can trade a 9 with him. (in that situation)

Too bad also that our projectile is arguably (maybe even inarguably) the worst in the game. However, I find that it is actually quite useful in this MU in particular. Marths rely on spacing and tippers, so that involves a lot of quick f-airs and n-airs coming from them. It turns out that the average trajectory of a chef attack is just outside of their range, so while they are constantly hopping, knowing that they can beat any move you throw out with their stupid bull****, they get nailed by a sausage or a fish or something. Especially since people rarely use the move, so it is often unpredictable and confusing.

Best case scenario you can capitalize on the hitstun of a chef projectile and follow up with a sweet-spotted and fresh (like Vinnie suggests) f-air or if you're feeling crazy maybe a judgement.

Of course they will quickly see through your games and just f-air rapidly through your bacon once they catch on. So it is extremely important to pick a safe time to use it... I mean keep them at the END of your range.

You will still lose probably, though. I always do.

 

[Rizen]

I'm finally realizing that when a character is shutting you down, you just have to wait and look for any opportunity, as opposed to trying something new to get in.

Players have to not be reckless. Time-outs can be a huge pain when you're behind. You are forced to approach and usually take more damage as a result. Time-outs are a big reason why I don't like the Peach and Jiggz MUs with most of my characters. IMO, Snake is a worse MU than Marth, keep in mind I play wifi. Snake's frame 4 Ftilt and frame 6 Utilt are absurdly broken KO moves and he can pack on more damage with explosives to force actions.
I need to remember that timing out is an option. Link/Zelda/Ganon can't realistically time opponents out. Wolf/G&W are fast and agile enough for timing out to be an option but not a common strategy. With any character, if I lose the lead it's an up hill climb. Especially vs smart players who know not to approach when they don't need to.

Edit:
Technically Snake's taunt box is the worst projectile.
Not counting that, I think Chef slightly beats diddy's peanuts because it combos and the frying pan attack is useful too. Peanuts have incredibly low priority, bad damage and the opponent can catch them and throw them as an item. Diddy's so good in other ways that he can sometimes use the weak projectile with his move set.

 

[Dexident]

Okay, Rizen, f-air enough.

Though the one thing that Diddy's peanuts have going for them is that you can charge them and have them go considerably further than chef. If nothing else they outclass chef in range, which definitely has it's virtues. .

 

[Alphicans]

I am curious to hear the rest of what Vinnie says, since I find myself disagreeing with "trying to keep your fair fresh." I disagree because it's easily the best move to use in this match-up in nearly every situation, and will be the move that gets you the most damage.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

One of the best in my country thinks he can 3-stock me.

I don't believe him.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Kick his cocky ***.

What ever happened to that rumored new G&W AT?

 

[-Ominous-]

I agree with you Alphy, I use Fair a lot in the Marth matchup, not just for a KO.

And I was wondering the same thing, where's that AT?

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

What's your country? What's the name of the player?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Kick his cocky ***.

Well, he's not really cocky...on the contrary, he can be rather modest. However, he understimates himself along with the rest of the community, making us look like we're terribad.

I want to beat him to prove him that we aren't that bad. Because according to him, he considers one a "good" player if they are able to beat him.

What's your country? What's the name of the player?

I'm from Argentina and the player's tag is "Joak" or "Woril", but we really are unpopular and kind of bad in comparison to other countries...well, according to him, anyway. Our neighnouring country, Chile, seems to be doing much better. Especially with players like Zero (apparently the 17th best in the world) and Dragon.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Still kick his ***

Maybe that AT was a false hope

 

[ItoI6]

hey, i'm trying to learn game and watch because he can kill so easy off a single read and looks fun, but whenever I actually try to play as him hes terrible lol. He has like no safe pokes in the air to hit small chars like mk (bair gets SLed or SDIed to dair and FH Fair is too high) and his dtilt lasts too long to be a safe move on block. Like how am I supposed to beat a patient player who will walk back and forth and ftilt me with a top tier? Good gnwatches beat me but i cant seem to play as him, is there anything im missing?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Wait for him to come to you. Screw him for not coming over with the best character in the game, he's a coward taking much more advantage. Keept him in the air with U-Air so you can constantly rack up damage with N-Air. When he uses Tornado or Shuttle Loop very close to you, Up-B out of shield so he enter a freefall state in which you may get a free smash attack. For killing, I recommend D-Throwing him and tech chase him for an Up-Smash.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

In general, GnW feeds off of spacing and reads. However, his approaches are easily seen. You just have to play him and get the hang of him.

Play somebody because you like how they play, tier position and matchups should not matter.

 

[Rizen]

hey, i'm trying to learn game and watch because he can kill so easy off a single read and looks fun, but whenever I actually try to play as him hes terrible lol. He has like no safe pokes in the air to hit small chars like mk (bair gets SLed or SDIed to dair and FH Fair is too high) and his dtilt lasts too long to be a safe move on block. Like how am I supposed to beat a patient player who will walk back and forth and ftilt me with a top tier? Good gnwatches beat me but i cant seem to play as him, is there anything im missing?

Only pros think gaw suck. :D

Lol, it's funny how that works for several not-so-great characters. The better you are the more you realize how bad they are.

G&W has several bad high/top tier MUs and MK da bess. Really good G&Ws have his spacing and timing down to the frame and instinctively know his best option for whatever situation.
Maybe G&W isn't your style. I can't play Lucario to save my life for some reason. *shrug*.

In general, GnW feeds off of spacing and reads. However, his approaches are easily seen. You just have to play him and get the hang of him.

^this.

What ever happened to that rumored new G&W AT?

^seriously.
_______________
Do Fair and Bair have equal range or almost equal? Bair feels a little longer but that could be my imagination.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I think gaw is my style because he mas amazing killing power and he's also good in the air.

 

[Rizen]

I meant that for Ito16. It's just a thought.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

ok sorry 8[

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

G&W has several bad high/top tier MUs and MK da bess. Really good G&Ws have his spacing and timing down to the frame and instinctively know his best option for whatever situation.
Maybe G&W isn't your style. I can't play Lucario to save my life for some reason. .

I can't play lucario to save my life either. Funny how that works.

As for the ranges, I posted a link to all of the hitboxes by frame a while ago. I think it's in the frame data thread if you want to go find it

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhjqoPq8_vI all the hitboxes

 

[SFA Smiley]

hey, i'm trying to learn game and watch because he can kill so easy off a single read and looks fun, but whenever I actually try to play as him hes terrible lol. He has like no safe pokes in the air to hit small chars like mk (bair gets SLed or SDIed to dair and FH Fair is too high) and his dtilt lasts too long to be a safe move on block. Like how am I supposed to beat a patient player who will walk back and forth and ftilt me with a top tier? Good gnwatches beat me but i cant seem to play as him, is there anything im missing?

Lots of patience and stuff.

You gotta actually love this character in order to use him, because he's sorta frustrating...

 

[Ingulit]

So I'm trying to figure out what each character can do with Diddy's Bananas, and I'm going around to each character's board asking this: does your character have any fun combos or tricks they can do specifically with Bananas? If not, you might look into it; it'd be useful both for the Diddy MU and for Doubles when your partner is a Diddy.