Paper Mario Mafia: Day 4 finally ends! Luigi wins!

[SangfroidWarrior]

Why are you lost?

 

[#HBC | J]

I think it's because you are dropping a lot of town tells that are making us second guess you and it's even making me confused.

Pierce, would you go John>Sang toDay if I went?

Idk whether I should stick to my gut(Sang) or go with my head(John) atm.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

J, what do you think of Kary toDay? I know it's not been much but do you think anything's changed from his play yesterDay?

Btw, Seph, yes, I'm getting to your post about J.

 

[#HBC | J]

My opinion of Kary is death needs to befall that slot sooooooooo bad but I can't get it atm. ;_; Marshy won't let me.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

its the fact that everyones pulling in different directions that is confusing me. people started saying john was scum and i was like "what?" and then seph says rajams town and im not jiving with his lynchpool leaving me like "what?"

 

[frozenmarsh751]

oh believe me. i hate kary this game too

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

So, I'm not really sure how accurate my J read is as I always have difficulty reading him, but, I'm pretty confident he is town. He seems to be doing a pretty good job at scumhunting and analyzing people, but the only thing I really dislike about him is that he feels so comfortable about his town status because of being in that group with Marshy and whoever else. Bussing isn't strictly a scum tell of his, as I know that he changes things on a regular basis, but I haven't played too much with him when he was scum. He's definitely a player to be wary of and I don't think it's safe to be completely comfortable with him as town and not question anything he does, but that could go for anyone.

 

[Pierce7d]

I tried to throw you rope Sang, but there's just not enough for me to work with. Adumb set you up nice and good, and Marshybro/Frozen do have the upper hand right now in making calls.

 

[Pierce7d]

J, absolutely. I do not tihnk Sang is that scummy. I think her play needs . . . MORE but not necessarily different. I think Adumb done set her up good and proper, but I strongly do prefer the john lynch. Maybe I'm being a bit of a white knight here, but I feel Sang's play versus John's play means she should live at least 1 more day.

 

[#HBC | J]

Unvote
Vote: John2k4

I'm willing to give Sang one more day to clean up her act if John does not flip scum, she pretty much has to do a helluva convincing case to get us to not lynch her. The only person I wanna lynch more than her if the game still continues is Kary.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

wuddya think seph?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I'm honestly not all that confident in John being scum as of right now. As I've said a few times, I want to see more from him.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I think J is setting up a double lynch.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I'll take this day as a no-J and post my case first thing tomorrow. That seems to be the best course of action right now.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Oh and I'm out. Talk to you chaps tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | J]

Haha this gif is a little extreme but I do agree with what I wanna do like everytime I see Seph's posts about me because they just have me going:

So on that note, I'm out for the night. ;P

 

[Pierce7d]

Vote John

Yes =)

 

[John2k4]

L-2?
Meh.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

I think the game supports lynching Sang in terms of clues, but I think that in terms of their play, John should go. Sorry Sang. I needed a bit more from you toDay to help save you, but way too much coasting.

FF speaking. This is pretty accurate. I feel the same way.

Here's the deal. They're scummy for different reasons. I get it that some of you think John is more individually scummy. But get this. We learn WAYYYYYYY more from a Sang lynch. Why you ask? Because her scumminess is based off of "clues" that we got from deadscumRonike and deadscumAdumb. If we get her flip, it will either confirm our reads on how Ronike and Adumb were treating their partners, OR it will show us that we were wrong and thus, better inform us as to how exactly Adumb and Ronike treated partners vs. townies.

If we lynch John we don't get much. From what I recall, he didn't interact a ton with our two flipped scums. Or at the very least, he was mentioned FAR less by both Ronike and Adumb than Sang was.

Sang is the better play if we're holding scumminess equal (albeit for different reasons). We get a much better picture of what the scum stragey was by seeing her flip, and it will help us use Ronike's and Adumb's posts more robustly. She helps either confirm or deny the "bussing strategy" standard that we're (or maybe it's just me) operating off of to hunt the scum.

Votes back on Sang please. Let's not make this an endless tug of war. Think about it rationally and you'll see Sang is the better play hand down.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Right, did isolated re-reads on Sang, John, Rajam and Chibo. Thoughts:
In terms of scumminess, I'm leaning John > Rajam > Sang > Chibo
However, there isn't a lot to go on all things considered.

John has contributed almost nothing but the opinion he wanted Bardull dead; beyond that I feel he is just trying to act casual in order to shrug off any suspicion. He really needs to post more, and explain some of his reads.
Rajam must have a really slow internet connection or something because he's not with the program at all. His RVS vote/push on Ronike does not clear him, though his suspicion of Adum seems legitimate. His dislike of me I am basically putting down to just disliking my play.
I also don't know what to think about him given that he didn't hammer anyone yesterday.
Sang I'm reading as more or less town. I find it a bit weird that she's downhearted at people pushing her, and I'm somewhat confused with her stance with reference to the last minute Ronike waggon. But her response to Adum's over-the-top push on her early game seems pretty genuine to me, and I can't see Adum as being that concerned about distancing.
Chibo I'm actually ok with. His thought process and pushes seem legitimate, and he seems willing to call people on stuff. I am also curious as to how he might react under pressure, but can put that on the backburner right now.

So, of those four, I think it's John/Rajam for me today. But here's the kicker:

I'm actually a lot more worried about Pierce/Seph today. I will admit that being more active makes you seem like a bigger target, but I don't really get either of their stances right now, especially the Rajam town read. Seph is still playing to his vig claim, which I don't entirely see the relevance of, and Pierce has basically exploded with desire for a quicklynch, which gives me reason to pause.

/My thoughts right now.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Ugh, that last post looks really ugly, oh well.
I don't know why it's come down to Sang/John today, particularly; I don't think today should just be lynching an inactive.
Quicklynching, also bad IMO.

I'm anticipating Seph's next post, and I really want to hear from Bardull. Where the hell is he?

Got to dash ;/

 

[frozenmarsh751]

seph isnt relevant. hes the ****ing vig or sk at worst. we are looking for mafia. what are you doing kary

j. TELL me you are town this game or i will roomban you (not really)

adum...i know youre following this game cackling to yourself as you watch all this town confusion

 

[frozenmarsh751]

j. what is your opinion of chibo? talk to me about stuff

 

[#HBC | J]

j. TELL me you are town this game or i will roomban you (not really)

Marshy...doubting me...?

(yes, I'm town)

j. what is your opinion of chibo? talk to me about stuff

Deffo seeing him as more town that scum. Within his posts, I see more of a town-intent>scum-intent especially when talking about his push on John and the way he turned the wagon back onto John>Sang when he could have just sat there and no one would have minded.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

lynch order?

frozen. please check the quick topic (the hydra one not the mafia one ho ho ho)

 

[#HBC | J]

Ideal or practical?

 

[frozenmarsh751]

ho! that was fast

how about "if i placed the fate of this game in your hands"

no biggie

 

[#HBC | J]

Hmmm....

Kary>John/Rajam>Sang

 

[frozenmarsh751]

i also think our last bad guy is in that pool

man. i have no idea why seph constantly goes the opposite direction i do

 

[Rajam]

@MOD: My vote is on Kary

 

[Inferno3044]

J (0)
SangfroidWarrior (2) Fmarsh, John
Rajam (0)
John2k4 (4) Sang, Chibo, J, Pierce
Pierce7d (1) MOD
Chibosempai (0)
BarDulL (0)
Sephiroths Masamune (0)
Kary (1) Rajam
Frozenmarsh751 (0)

Not voting: Bardull, Seph, Kary

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

For some reason I feel like there's a mistake so feel free to correct me.

 

[Inferno3044]

Bardull has been prodded.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@John. What do you think of Seph's suspicion on J? What about Kary's 1420 about Seph and Pierce?

 

[Rajam]

Marshy, let me see your kill list in who gets bull-dozed first and the like.

I'm seeing it more like this:

Sang>Kary>Rajam-Chibo-John

J why Sang over Kary?

 

[Rajam]

Anyway, finished my re-read (AKA quick skim with certain players in mind) and here's my reads list:

1. J - Town (although I'm normally wary about him, I like him this game and feel pretty comfortable with having him as town)
2. SangfroidWarrior - Town
3. Rajam - Null (all of his posts have been in hind-sight and there are a few posts of his that I like, but there are a few that I just don't understand at all)
4. John2k4 - Null leaning scum (he's been coasting all game, and hardly any of his posts have had actual content in them; almost all of his reads have been unsubstantiated and just kind of there, if he ever really had any reads)
5. Pierce7d - Null, with a possibility of leaning town (I really didn't like his playstyle D1, and a few of his posts from yesterDay still don't sit well with me, but I'm beginning to like him a bit more; I'm leaving this open for change but, for right now, I'm thinking of him as possible town)
6. Chibosempai - Null (I'm not really sure what to think about him and nothing about him has really stuck out to me, so he's the only major null for now)
7. BarDulL - Null leaning town (some of his posts have been odd, but I still feel that he could be town)
8. Sephiroths Masamune - Town (I still don't care for how he played early D1, but I still have the feeling that he is town)
11. Kary - Null leaning scum (he's just been really odd all game; he tried to buddy with adumb and then distance himself from adumb, his posts have really been focusing solely on himself or Bardull, and he doesn't seem to be trying to do the best for town, but for himself)
13. frozenmarsh751 - Town (he's made some pretty good posts and some pretty good calls; comfortable with him being town as well)

So, my scum picks are John and Kary, with Kary being the stronger read. I'd be fine with either Chibo or Rajam being lynched.

? Which were those posts, and if you didn't understand them why didn't ask for clarification?

 

[Pierce7d]

Right, did isolated re-reads on Sang, John, Rajam and Chibo. Thoughts:
In terms of scumminess, I'm leaning John > Rajam > Sang > Chibo
However, there isn't a lot to go on all things considered.

John has contributed almost nothing but the opinion he wanted Bardull dead; beyond that I feel he is just trying to act casual in order to shrug off any suspicion. He really needs to post more, and explain some of his reads.
Rajam must have a really slow internet connection or something because he's not with the program at all. His RVS vote/push on Ronike does not clear him, though his suspicion of Adum seems legitimate. His dislike of me I am basically putting down to just disliking my play.
I also don't know what to think about him given that he didn't hammer anyone yesterday.
Sang I'm reading as more or less town. I find it a bit weird that she's downhearted at people pushing her, and I'm somewhat confused with her stance with reference to the last minute Ronike waggon. But her response to Adum's over-the-top push on her early game seems pretty genuine to me, and I can't see Adum as being that concerned about distancing.
Chibo I'm actually ok with. His thought process and pushes seem legitimate, and he seems willing to call people on stuff. I am also curious as to how he might react under pressure, but can put that on the backburner right now.

So, of those four, I think it's John/Rajam for me today. But here's the kicker:

I'm actually a lot more worried about Pierce/Seph today. I will admit that being more active makes you seem like a bigger target, but I don't really get either of their stances right now, especially the Rajam town read. Seph is still playing to his vig claim, which I don't entirely see the relevance of, and Pierce has basically exploded with desire for a quicklynch, which gives me reason to pause.

/My thoughts right now.

This was a fantastic post until you completely lost me at the end. Exploded with a desire for a quicklynch?

Dafuq? Who am I quick lynching? Didn't I specifically say "Nobody better hammer John before Frozen gets caught up, or Marshy will have my head?"

I have been applying pressure to my scum reads, and I think Rajam is town, but I also think his play is like "herp derp, ignore relevant posts, sniff under empty rock"

I've also been communicating with the other players I believe to be town.

Also, just as a note of my own personal play, with two scum dead, I see future defenses of other players as a null. Scum sticking their head out for scum buddies ain't happening, because there's not two scum left I thnk.

How can you not get any of my stances when you have the same stances on John, Sang, and Chibo as I do?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Ok, can't be arsed to do a big post.

Pierce is really weird for me today
-Quite a lot of buddying, at least in his language.
-Seems to flip/flop between Sang and John and not care who goes.
-Seems very eager to be seen as scumhunting.
Put it all together and I'm not so confident in town Pierce anymore.

For instance, Pierce, how can you have town reads on Sang and Rajam, but still be ok with lynching either of them? Are you that confident that scum are between myself/Sang/John/Rajam, and that'll be that?

Here's a post for some context:

Sang, this is your chance to get on my good side. Vote John.

And this ain't no quicklynch ****. Marshy will have my head if we lynch John before Frozen gets to do his sniffing.

I don't really like it

@Rajam:
If someone (say Seph) shot you right now, who would you want to look into tomorrow?
If you had to shoot one of Sang/John right now, who would you shoot and why?
If you had to shoot one of Seph/J right now, who would you shoot and why?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

lol ninja,

@Pierce ok, maybe i shouldn't have said quicklynch. but you seem pretty happy to just lynch whoever today provided marshy's ok with it. see what i just posted for an idea of where i'm coming from.

 

[Pierce7d]

I don't give a **** who "sees" me as scumhunting. I am scum hunting, and anyone too blind to see that is too dumb for me to care, LOL.

Sang/John/Kary were my top three scum picks at the beginning of the day, so obviously I'm not going to have massive preference between Sang and John, and obviously I'm going to compromise with other pro-town players.

My "buddying" is working with other pro-town players to progress the goals of town. Mafia is a team game, regardless of which team you're on. It's not like I'm hardbody following people's vote like I was yesterDay. I've been blazing my own trail for the most part, and was the first to say that I wanted aforementioned players dead without anyone else saying anything (MAYBE J ninjaed me)

Also, I thought I made myself super clear but, I MUCH PREFER TO LYNCH JOHN OVER SANG, BUT I COMPLETE UNDERSTAND THE IDEA OF LYNCHING SANG. I'm not going to fight town over it, because I'm confident that John will not be taken into end game, or you'll see that my cooperation will RAPIDLY dwindle.

In fact, didn't I even tell John that if Sang flips scum, I was going to have his head regardless of what Marshy had to say about it?

I'm pretty sure Marshy is voting Sang, and I'm voting John. I cooperate with Marshy because he's protown, but I'm also doing my own scum hunting. Also, being happy to lynch TWO OF MY TOP SCUM PICKS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY is not at all unusual. Especially when one of them has a lot of clues that says she's scum, and the other one plays like ****.

It's not so much about Marshy being "okay" with it. It's more like Marshy is a better scumhunter than I am (see: Day 1) and Marshy/Frozen is a MUCH better scumhunter than I am. For instance, if we had lynched John before Frozen got caught up, Frozen would not have been able to point out to me that in RVS Adumb tried really hard to get Sang lynched. Following the pattern of Adumb's behavior, this means he may have been trying to bus her. I think that is a REASONABLE clue to follow, even if I think Sang's overall posting has been kinda townish. Quicklynching John would have been very ANTI-Town, even if I think he's scum.

Hell, I never am a fan of quicklynching, but some of the other pro-town players are, so I'm learning it. I'm a claim fanboy actually.

I think I touched on everything. Anymore questions?

 

[Pierce7d]

In the end, it's true that I'll probably end up voting Sang, because as Marshy said, and I agree, a tug of war for town is not ideal. I do not feel SO strongly about Sang being town that I'm going to cockblock the lynch. But I do prefer John, and most of the other pro-town players agree with me that John is not okay, so I'm okay with giving them what they want now, to get what I want later.