Panda's Discoveries! (New AT, Auto-RAR, and C-stick Neutrals) UPDATE: NAME DECIDED!

[Pharma]

Also, not trying to be an attention-***** here or anything, but what struck me as a possible name right away was Recoil Specials. I think it's fairly descriptive and simple. B-sticking is fine, though =P

Man, Recoil Specials is an awesome name, my vote goes for that. Good work on all the stuff SPanda hopefully something more comes from tinkering with the controls.

 

[Nobie]

I tried this out with Dedede and wow, this works really well.

Being able to evade slightly in the air while throwing Waddle Dees, I can only see good things coming from it.

Not to mention that back airs are now much more reliable.

 

[darthjiggles]

Nair's appear to be quiet a pain to pull off. Great stuff panda.

 

[Emokirby4]

Is there any reason why when I change the control scheme back, the C-stick no longer works for smashes and aerials? The C-Stick will not do smashes or aerials on ANY of my names anymore, not even the default "Player 1" Has this happened to anyone else?

Just as a side note: It's a nice discovery and should come in handy for a few characters.

Edit: Don't know what the problem was and I don't know how I fixed it but I did. Good luck if it happens to you.

 

[Firestorm88]

Darn. Sadly seems useless for Meta Knight but seeing Lucas doing it is really amazing. I know 019 called it wavebouncing, but I think dropping the wave and calling it bouncing kind of explains what it looks like. He jumps up and sort of bounces backwards =P

I'm gonna look at more characters.

 

[Rithis]

Awesome discovery. I wonder if stuff like this'll eventually lead to banning custom control schemes at tourneys.

 

[cnza]

Pretty Awesome finds there. I'll try that out.

 

[LinkSpecialist]

Wow, I barely beat Panda to the punch! Still, I love how this thread is written in much greater detail.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

Interesting finds on the C-stick, but I hate to break it to you but the last discovery is old. There's a JP video with ZSS's forward B doing it that came out a month ago. GJ on explaining it in english though.

And why in the hell are we calling it RAR now T__T I thought I agreed on something not silly sounding =(

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Also, not trying to be an attention-***** here or anything, but what struck me as a possible name right away was Recoil Specials. I think it's fairly descriptive and simple. B-sticking is fine, though =P

Recoil Specials sound really good, actually.

 

[Mr.E]

Oh, and one more thing: if you're going to set your stick to specials, why not set your B to smashes? That would make things a bit better for this setup, I think.

You still need a button for Specials for most characters, to hold charging Specials (e.g. Samus' Charge Shot) and sustain continuous Specials (e.g. Bowser's Flame Breath). Also, neutral-B with the stick is a total pain in the ***.

For the actual topic at hand, my opinions are in the other topic if anyone cares.

 

[ExplosiveDuck]

This is awesome, nice find. Lucas is looking to get some good AT's coming his way, on top of him already being a great characters.

And as for the C-Stick-to-Specials Config, I say we just call it the B-Stick.

 

[Skazryk]

kewl.... these will be fun to mess around with

 

[Skazryk]

My friend is a lucas player, i wonder if he'll switch.

 

[Pyr0]

I think that the aerial B backward moving is actually a the C stick doing 2 things at the same time:

1) The special attack you commanded
2) DI

Basically it stacks DI (but no turn around) into the Special.

 

[Spyda]

UH wait.. didnt some guy already find this? wave bounce or something?

 

[Aerozeke]

Very nice find. I don't see this being useful with any character except for Lucas in the future, but Lucas mainers will definitely become a force to be reckoned with.

I experimented a bit (with Lucas of course), and found that if you combine the auto-RAR and the new unnamed AT (one right after the other), you can perform the AT while running. So you dash, then c-stick twice in the opposite direction (not too rapidly, otherwise Lucas will perform a double hop instead--and also, make sure you don't do it too quickly after the dash). Nothing extremely significant--just a little extension to the new AT. Makes it easier to pull off, imo. But it also makes PK fire even more formidable than it already is.

 

[saratos]

Actually, I believe there is a way to preform this with a more standard control setup.

A while back, a couple of threads about Lucases vb had talked about this. I want to look into this as well.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=151386
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=151457

Not to undermine you, panda, but there are many people who would rather keep their c-stick the way it is. I want to look more into what you have found, which is so far the only way to reproduce a wonky mid-air vb reverse with Lucas. And then see how exactly to do it without b-sticking (which we already know, is possible).

 

[EpicProportions]

Not to undermine you, panda, but there are many people who would rather keep their c-stick the way it is. I want to look more into what you have found, which is so far the only way to reproduce a wonky mid-air vb reverse with Lucas. And then see how exactly to do it without b-sticking (which we already know, is possible).

Almost everything done by 'b-sticking' CAN be done leaving the c-stick on smash attacks, however it is rather difficult and requires much getting used to(timing, etc.). Also I would like to point out that this is merely an OPTION open for players to make certain playstyles and attacks easier to pull off. Comparable to how the 'c-stick' helped with smash attacks and opened up new possibilities for the transition of 64 to melee.

 

[The Executive]

Many thanks, Panda. Auto-RAR saved my life. Keep looking for new ATs!

 

[WAAASSSUUUPP]

Holy ****, this is awesome. Don't know if I can change settings though..........might try it out and see if it's worth losing the c-stick for aerials and smashes. I do main Marth (in melee, no brawl yet), so we'll see.

 

[Luigi player]

Wow, that's awesome! Lucas mainers will need to switch to that control scheme XD I don't think I'll use it with DK. It might be a little useful, but not too much (I think). Though I'll give it a try when I finally get the game...

Props for finding this and thanks for the video description! ^^

 

[Mattnumbers]

This is awesome, I'm a Lucas user and this will make it even more fun to play as him! Thanks a lot SP!

 

[Kokichi]

Yeah, I figured out how to do it without using the c-stick. It's a combination of pressing left-right-left-right on the joystick while doing the pk-fire move. I think what it is is say you face to the right, you jump backwards, do a pk-fire, then press backwards...or something like that. I'm able to do it about 1/3 times or so...I'll try to figure it out exactly soon.

 

[Solar Boy Django]

I can't...Honestly see how this will be used practically besides speeding around the stage or using an off-stage PK Fire KO.

I'm a Lucas mainer, and I'm gonna stick with smashes to C stick. C Stick wouldn't be the same without being able to punish those who underestimate the power of Lucas's stick.

 

[ssbm rocks1]

panda sticking sounds kinda... disturbing

 

[Jaffar]

Wow, this is very interesting. I'll have to try this with Snake and some other characters now

 

[K20AFoozbal]

couple things i'd like to point out...

To the guys who are all "no offense panda but you're dumb LOL" or "seriously this is a totally newb stuff and ppl wont wantz to use they're 'b-stick' lolol"... shut up plz. This is an informational thread discussing how it's good and what it will work for. dont just say it's bad cut it is. you're bad. how's it feel?! ****heads

This thread was directed at a few characters (marth, dk and lucas) which SP pointed out in his OP/video... so dont go saying "this is bad because i play jigglypuff and it doesnt work for me so there LOL."... so yea... (actually it would probably work for jigglypuff lol)


Anyways...

Ok, so i played around with this for about an hour and got all the stuff in the video to work. lucas is obviously the best choice for wave bouncing. (i would call it the SP lol... shorter and sounds better imo)... on the other hand, the ARAR is really nice on most characters... a few of the best being Mario (R.I.P. Dr mario T_T), Ike, Wolf, DDD, DK, Marth, Lucas etc... take your pick...


the question remains... is it worth giving up your stick smashes for the ARAR... for me personally? no... I play ike and doing the RAR is easy enough and being able to cstick the Bair makes life very nice. plus he's built around smashes... also with pikachu his RAR isnt any good for getting KOs... although it's still fun to use cuz of the floppy sound it makes lol. And for both characters i found little or no use at all to having the wave bouncing technique with the b-stick... infact trying to Bair with the cstick and getting me tossed off the edge happened more than i care to recall in this thread...

(before you say "ZOMG U USES PIKACHOO?!! LOL!" i'd like to point out his Dsmash, Dspec and Nair then tell you to walk away. thx.)


While it's a great find and i appluad SP for his (while maybe not the first discovery) awesome exposure and run through of the techniques... i wont be using them. Good on ya man.


Seriously... name it the SP. that's cooler than wave bouncing... lol

 

[DeathNote]

Is B-sticking useful for Olimar? His B-air isn't too special and throwing pikmin randomly can be pretty dangerous and stupid at times.

 

[tutata]

Hey panda great work with this it helps alot and its great for mind games.

 

[whs]

Deathnote; I'm maining Olimar atm, but also use Lucas alot. It's not incredibly useful for him, but I'm using the b-sticking layout mixed with my own layout just to get used to it, in case something more develops from this. If you use it right, it's a more defensive oriented way of throwing pikmin, and the bair is useful on occasion.

 

[Massyr]

Sorry if this has already been said, but I didn't see it as far as I read into the thread...

I just noticed something with the AT...With Lucario, When I jump one way and hold the control stick while b-sticking in the opposite direction, Lucario doesn't change direction. he stays facing the direction his momentum was originally taking him and Force Palms.

On the other hand, when I let the control stick fall into a neutral position before I b-stick in the opposite direction, Lucario WILL turn around and force palm the other way.

 

[Thinkaman]

First, this is the best thread I can remember in a long time. These findings are simply awesome.

I tried this with a few characters, and Jigglypuff does a pretty cool pound in place. The RAR bair is nice too.

However, the real star is POKEMON TRAINER!

Squirtle and Charizard have fantastic fairs and don't need RAR that much, as far as I can tell; Ivy on the other hand gain immensesly, not able to create that giant and fast bair hitbox anywhere. Squirtle also don't gain much from back-sticking (or whatever) Withdraw, though Ivysaur gets a nice defensive/range boost with Razor Leaf, however you look at it. However... the real winner is Rock Smash.

Oh man.

Maybe it's just the CPU in training mode being a moron, but pulling yourself back out of an attack's way only to immediately counter with a 43% damage rock to the face feels REALLY good.

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

I have to practice with the Wii-mote and nunchuck because of the 2nd round in the tournement

what
the
hell
?

 

[kupo15]

Yeah, I figured out how to do it without using the c-stick. It's a combination of pressing left-right-left-right on the joystick while doing the pk-fire move. I think what it is is say you face to the right, you jump backwards, do a pk-fire, then press backwards...or something like that. I'm able to do it about 1/3 times or so...I'll try to figure it out exactly soon.

I'm glad someone else is trying to figure this out also. My control style is wiimote and nunchuck so I don't have a C stick. But I have been able to perform recoil special (I like that name) some of the time but haven't exactly figured it out. I noticed that if you run forward and jump (while keeping momentum) press B and immediatly smash in the other direction that you get a momentum bounce in a direction (I forget which way). So that is my basis for testing.

My guess is that you have to start out doing a RAR and then do the reverse special which faces you in the right direction w the momentum bounce. I'm still testing.

If anyone figures out how, it would be much appreciated!

 

[rageagainst]

nah zelda is the best for wavebouncing, lucas's can only hit ppl in the air (link's boomerange is also good for wavebouncing too).

what you do is put "L" as special and as soon as you put the C-stick back, press L and control the fire ball.

 

[kupo15]

This can also be useful with characters who's B attacks leave the open if they miss. Ex would be GaW side B (hammer) and Falcon/Ganondorf B (Punch).
Also good for avoiding getting grabbed if an opponent shields your attack. The backwards thrust gets you out of grabbing distance which can be crucial if you are facing a chain grabber like DDD

 

[WIGI]

Panda stick..like..Bamboo...


Bambooing?



xD

i realy wish i had thought that this was important. ive had my c-stick set to eitehr my tilts or my speciels (i have 2 names with each setting) depends on wat i wanted.

very nice with the auto backwards sh thing tho. never knew that.

 

[darkshy]

This advanced technique does have its uses IMO because there are some attacks that may travel forward slightly, like kirby's up B attack, that would allow a player to follow up with attacks somewhat easier. I wish I could think of more ways, but I cannot seem to put them into words. However I can be sure when I say this technique is 100% useful.

 

[JAPMAN]

Panda, this is an AMAZING discovery.

I tried this myself, and me being a Lucas main, this has proved very useful.

I also did some other experimenting with the button configuration and i found something that MAY prove to be useful.
I tried replacing B with jump, kept A as attack, Z as another attack, both X and Y to jump, L to grab, R to shield, with tap jump on.
As a result:
I can do the b-stick PK fire with ease by using the B-stick and tap jump.(can control direction of B-stick PKF by jumping in a diagonal jump)
I can still grab With L
But most importantly i found something else out with B being another jump button. You can do a shorthop aerial (with the exception of up-air) just by sliding your finger from B to A as quick as you can.
The point here is not even close to how convenient it might be, its just that you can press a button in the fashion of a full hop and still be able to shorthop-aerial. I just find this an interesting topic because when i try to do things fast, i more than often end up pressing a button too hard or too lightly.