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Panda's Discoveries! (New AT, Auto-RAR, and C-stick Neutrals) UPDATE: NAME DECIDED!

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,933
Here's the story. It was late, around 2:30am, and my friend (EpicProportions) and I were just playing around. I go into training mode to try out Snake's bomb jump (down B twice in the air) but I can't get it to work well because he keeps fast falling whenever I pressed down. So I figured I'd try something weird... I changed my C-stick to Special. From there, I discovered that this C-stick had some strange properties. Epic and I then spent the next few hours playing with the setup and learning how to do things. There were 3 big things that we discovered: How to do neutrals with the C-stick, a way to do an auto-RAR (reverse aerial rush, where you are dashing and jump backwards while keeping forward momentum), and a new AT (advanced technique) that may or may not be very useful.

After you read the rest of the thread, check out this new video here (its now working): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foFpmKZkkU8

I just made it really quickly to give you guys a better idea of what this really is, and the different applications.

C Stick Neutrals

When you set your C-stick to special attacks, you may notice that sometimes you'll do a neutral B attack. But how do you do it? Well, it took us awhile, but we figured out that the diagonal directions allowed us to do the Neutrals (although we had to do them slowly to correctly pull them off). Definitely takes some getting used to to do consistently, but its not impossible.

Also, if you set your C-stick to attack (meaning tilts), you may notice that you sometimes jump even if you're only using the C stick. This is due to hitting the C-stick multiple times in a single direction which will cause your character to jump. i.e. I was using Kirby's up tilt with the C stick, and when I hit up twice fast, Kirby up tilted, jumped in the air, then up aired.


Auto-RARing

Possibly the best discovery made that night was being able to automatically do a short-hop RAR when your C-stick is set to Special. Very strange, but very interesting. It is quite simple to do... just dash and hit the C-stick in the opposite direction, and you automatically short-hop backwards! Yes, the C-stick will not only turn you around, but it will even jump for you, too. In my control scheme, I've changed Z to being an attack, so when I auto-RAR, I can immediatly attack with my Bair.


The new AT!

Now this is where it gets really interesting. This is what I had discovered with Snake that made me so curious. With this new AT, you can jump forward, and while jumping you instantaneously move backwards and use a special. It is tough to explain, so go try it in training mode yourself. Here is how you do it: Jump forwards, and hit your C-stick in the opposite direction. Thats it! Your character will move backwards and use their special! I think its really easy to see with DK's side special, so I suggest you try that first when you want to see what its like. And this technique can work for any of your special attacks, even neutrals.

After I discovered this, Epic and I spent the next few hours trying out every character with this. By far the most useful ones were: Lucas, DK, and Marth (in that order). DK's donkey punch, while annoyingly difficult to input, is definitely awesome, and his Side B is sweet too. Plus, Marth's shield breaker with this AT looks great. But by FAR the best is Lucas. For some strange reason, when Lucas uses this AT with his PK Fire, it launches him backwards significantly. So much so, that after jumping forward and using the PK fire like this, you'll end up landing farther backwards than you were originally! Not only that, but you can pull some absolutely amazing stunts with his Down B (which is a great killer BTW). [EDIT] I nearly forgot! Who doesn't love being able to auto-RAR into your freaking meteor? Its almost like Lucas was MADE for this setup. I can definitely see this evolving Lucas players into a force to be afraid of.

As for naming... well, we couldn't figure out a good name. We ended up throwing around names like Cross Stick and Panda Stick, but in the end it depends on what you guys like.

Update: I wasn't intending on claiming an "official name" or anything, I wanted the community to just pick up on a name and use it. But I refuse to call this something incredibly silly, i.e. wavebouncing. So instead, I've decided I'll stick with B-sticking for the setup and Recoil Specials for the actual technique. Just... stop saying wavebouncing.
 

QUIVO

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
3,297
Location
Columbus Ohio
Good job finding some cool stuff.

but at tournaments, are they going to allow us to change our control schemes? That's the only reason why I haven't changed my z into attack yet.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
this is an incredibly interesting find!

im going to start testing some stuff immediately!!

good job =D
 

Subtle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
49
Location
SoCal, Oceanside
Cross sticking sounds amazing. As a lucas player I'm definitly going to test this...

PK fire is very interesting. If you jump while using it at the same time, you can move double the height... it seems during a certain frame of animation it can take the momentum of the blast and combine it with physics to create different effects. I'm sure we'll discover more ways to utilize this in the future
 

ZNewt

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
1
Good finds, as I'm trying to main Lucas. But there are a few things I don't understand.

"So much so, that after jumping forward and using the PK fire like this, you'll end up landing farther backwards than you were originally! Not only that, but you can pull some absolutely amazing stunts with his Down B (which is a great killer BTW). [EDIT] I nearly forgot! Who doesn't love being able to auto-RAR into your freaking meteor? Its almost like Lucas was MADE for this setup. I can definitely see this evolving Lucas players into a force to be afraid of. "

What are these "cool stunts" lucas can pull off with down b? i haven't been able to pull it off. Also i found i could only RAR with the C stick set to attack, so with Lucas, I can't Do both the RAR and the AT w/ PK fire in the same game with the same control configuration. Unless there is another way to do this new AT.
 

Urglor

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
4
This sounds really interesting. Ive been trying to learn to main Olimar or Snake and i used Luigi back in Melee. Im hoping after i try this out i can find some nice strategeys to use, espeically since snakes down smash takes a bit to finish. Or having more time with olimar to call my pikmin back or pull up more. Kind of reminds me of wave dashing only not the same.
 

I.T.P

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
874
Location
Hod Hasharon,Israel
whoa panda, you've got some really interesting Ideas, I'm gonna have to test this out.

I'm too used to the Melee's "C-Stick\Right stick is for smashes" Idea to have thought of this myself, I'll definately give this a try.

can you set a button to Smash?
 

I.T.P

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
874
Location
Hod Hasharon,Israel
although this is really amazingly awesome, do we really have to name it after someone?

can't we just name techniques in this game literally? It makes everything much simpler.
when did he name anything after someone? C-Stick neutrals? Auto-RARing?(Reverse Aerial Rush) New advanced technique?

btw, I suggest Reverse Special Rush or Auto SH'd Special.
 

chumlord

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
63
Location
Minneapolis, MN
NNID
chumlord
also if your running and you c-stick in the opposite direction 2 times you reverse shorthop followed by turn around pk fire....this might be useful for some mind fudgery.....
 

SynikaL

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
1,973
Location
Boynton Beach, FL
this setup. I can definitely see this evolving Lucas players into a force to be afraid of.

As for naming... well, we couldn't figure out a good name. We ended up throwing around names like Cross Stick and Panda Stick, but in the end it depends on what you guys like. If someone could post a video, I'd be very grateful, as I don't have the time to do so myself for a little while.
No names please. These don't need names.

Good info, sir.


-Syn
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,933
Just so you guys know, the whole "Panda Stick" was a joke, I wasn't serious about naming it that ^_^''
 

Coen

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Jun 7, 2005
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2,221
Location
Netherlands
Wow, incredible find. I might adjust my controller settings knowing this ^^ Any recommendations Panda?
 

Catfish_Mike

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
70
You can do neutral B's with the C-stick by hitting the direction opposite of what you're facing if you have it set for tilts. Diagonal does Neutrals in the air. Don't know how useful that could be, but I figured I'd throw it out.
 

-Aether

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
233
Location
Baltimore, MD
Other controller configurations should be tried considering this discovery. Interesting find..hopefully will be implemented in high level play.
 

Witchking_of_Angmar

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
1,846
Location
Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
lets read the last paragraph together, shall we?

i really don't think panda sticking (although slightly cute) is appropriate.
He wasn't being 100% serious. That's why it's a small side note at the bottom of the paragraph.

Anyway, very good job SamuraiPanda on finding this stuff. It's very well organized too, you make great threads.
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,933
People, this is just silly. Of COURSE you can change your button configs at tournaments. What made you think you wouldn't be able to?

You can do neutral B's with the C-stick by hitting the direction opposite of what you're facing if you have it set for tilts. Diagonal does Neutrals in the air. Don't know how useful that could be, but I figured I'd throw it out.
I totally forgot about that, thanks for reminding me!

Wow, incredible find. I might adjust my controller settings knowing this ^^ Any recommendations Panda?
Well, check out the video I just made about it, cause I include the controller setup I have for when my C-stick is on special: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foFpmKZkkU8
 

Icicles

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
1
This sounds really interesting. Ive been trying to learn to main Olimar or Snake and i used Luigi back in Melee. Im hoping after i try this out i can find some nice strategeys to use, espeically since snakes down smash takes a bit to finish. Or having more time with olimar to call my pikmin back or pull up more. Kind of reminds me of wave dashing only not the same.
It's pretty handy for Olimar, bein able to launch pikmin pretty far, plus his Rair is nasty depending on which pikmin you hit with.
 

yshikllr

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
144
Location
Lynnwood, WA
That youtube link isn't working for me, says video is unavailable. But all of this sounds like great stuff.......good finds.
 

GiantKiller

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
60
Same... video unavailable.

Just last night I was at the controller setup screen looking at all the things you could map to the C-Stick, got to special, and thought "hrm, that'd be weird" and passed it by without another thought.

Really interesting possibilities here.

-GK
 

Metzger

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
110
People, this is just silly. Of COURSE you can change your button configs at tournaments. What made you think you wouldn't be able to?
I'd heard that they were planning on not allowing any Wii Remote based setups due to all the additional time it would consume switching controllers in and out. Obviously this isn't quite as time consuming, but it would still require each name to be configured individually.

I'd personally probably use the Classic Controller given the option but I'm not going to bother learning that configuration if there is going to be a problem with non-GCN setups in tournament play. Hopefully at least these custom configurations are allowed without issue.
 

Mama

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
776
Location
Richmond California (northern)
Wow thats pretty interesting info. The auto RAR sounds the most fun imo. I just tried out the AT with Lucas and its really interesting. I'd like to see what can be done with it. Good finds.
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,933
The video should be working now. I made the video really quickly, so I apologize for the quality of the video/sound and the multiple times I screw up. I'm not running on very much sleep ^_^''
 

goth

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
20
Wow amazing find... This will make a huge difference in how many people play. I will kind of miss using the cstick for regulard attacks though. w00t for controller setup # 5!!
 
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