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Q&A Palutena Q&A Thread

Starbound

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Got any questions about Palutena? Come on in and get them answered.

Q: What are Palutena's Default Specials?
Neutral: Auto-reticle
Side: Reflect
Up: Warp
Down: Counter

Q: Are Palutena's specials unlocked from the beginning of the game?
Yes they are. However, you can still pick up duplicates of them.

Q: How much does Lightweight reduce Palutena's weight by?
It doesn't actually make her lighter. However, she will take 1.2x more damage from attacks, which makes her easier to KO.

Q: What is Palutena's best moveset?
There isn't one. Because all of her moves are so different from the rest, it's impossible to say that there is a clear "best moveset". You will have to use player discretion to create the moveset that works best for you.

Q: What are her options for each special move?
Her options for Neutral Special are:
1. Autoreticle, which is sort of like a delayed laser. Palutena will raise her staff and a reticle will appear. Three shots will be fired from her staff and will pass through the reticle.
2. Explosive Flame, which is a ranged projectile. The projectile looks like it's about the size of Wario at full charge. This move is B-reversable.
3. Heavenly Light, which has a large area of effect doing no knockback. The range appears to be almost infinite vertically above Palutena, and about the distance between the lower Battlefield platforms. The maximum damage this move can do is 36%.

Her options for Side Special are:
1. Reflect, which fires a barrier from her hand in front of her. The barrier up for the full duration of the move, though there are no damage multipliers on it. Her hand also as a 5% hitbox on it on startup as well as a windbox.
2. Angelic Missile, which fires Palutena forward like Skull Bash or Green Missile. The move cannot be charged.
3. Super Speed, which has Palutena dashing forward at fast speeds. After startup, the move is jump-cancelable.

Her options for Up Special are:
1. Warp, which is exactly like Mewtwo's Teleport from Melee.
2. Jump Glide, which has Palutena jump high and then slowly descend. She can move around while descending. Using an aerial out of Jump Glide will put you in special fall.
3. Rocket Jump, which is similar to Dedede's Super Dedede Jump. An aerial Rocket Jump can spike if the explosion hits the opponent.

Her options for Down Special are:
1. Counter, which counters moves with a 1.3x damage modifier with a minimum output of 10%.
2. Lightweight, which makes Palutena run faster than Sonic and increases her jump height substantially at the cost of taking 1.2x damage from all attacks.
3. Celestial Firework, which fires a ranged projectile in front of Palutena that sends the foe upwards. This move has invincibility frames for most of the move.

Q: When Palutena players say something like 2323, what does that mean?
They are referring to the special moves they are using. The first number refers to the neutral special, the second connects to the side special, the third correlates to the up special and the fourth number is the down special. In this case, that Palutena player's moveset would be Explosive Flame, Super Speed, Jump Glide and Celestial Firework.

If you have any ideas on other questions, send them my way.
 
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Tristan_win

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Could you also list the name of all of her specials, what number they appear in the game and what direction they are link to? (video reference)

It doesn't have to be in this format
Neutral: 1. Auto Reticule 2. Explosive Flame 3. Heavenly Light,
Side: 1. Reflect Barrier 2. Angelic Missile 3. Super Speed
Up: 1. Warp 2. Jump Glide 3. Rocket Jump
Down: 1. Counter 2. Lightweight 3. Celestial Fireworks

edit: for extra brownie points maybe even hyperlink all the specials name to a gif demonstrating them as well. I don't advise putting the gifs in the actually thread though as a Q&A isn't suppose to be flashy.

edit: Oh and a brief explanation of what it means when someone says they use a certain set up and only list the numbers.
 
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taolem

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When playing Palutena or fighting one, every time she rolls she becomes completely invisible. This also seems to happen to Rosalina. Anyone else have this?
 

Hong

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When playing Palutena or fighting one, every time she rolls she becomes completely invisible. This also seems to happen to Rosalina. Anyone else have this?
This is an intended feature of those characters. It was shown in Palutena's trailer.

Moved your query to the Q&A thread.
 

taolem

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This is an intended feature of those characters. It was shown in Palutena's trailer.

Moved your query to the Q&A thread.
thats kinda lame. why not just make roll animations
 

Hong

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thats kinda lame. why not just make roll animations
Because that just exists as another faucet to differentiate characters and give them unique strengths and weaknesses. For example, Palutena's sidestep has invisibility as well, but as a trade off, it's so long that it is easier to punish.
 

Shack

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Anyone know why is Palutena so low on all of the current tier lists? So far she seems really strong. Good air moves long range with disjointed hit boxes on moves and smashes. Her ground moves do have some lag, but overall it seems easy to overcome. Is there a big flaw she has right now or have people just not experimented enough with her yet?
 

TsuKiyoMe

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The big flaw that I'm finding against good players is that she just doesn't have answer to pressure. At least, not good ones. Counter and Fireworks are incredibly risky for not the greatest of rewards. All of her ground normals besides jab get stuffed on start up or punished really hard.

A Greninja can repeatedly just dash up to you, jab you or grab you all day. Your only real option (Aside from running away and trying to re-establish neutral) is to jab and hope it hits so you can land a grab out of it.
 

Shack

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The big flaw that I'm finding against good players is that she just doesn't have answer to pressure. At least, not good ones. Counter and Fireworks are incredibly risky for not the greatest of rewards. All of her ground normals besides jab get stuffed on start up or punished really hard.

A Greninja can repeatedly just dash up to you, jab you or grab you all day. Your only real option (Aside from running away and trying to re-establish neutral) is to jab and hope it hits so you can land a grab out of it.
Hmm I guess that is true, But dont her ariels and range make up for that? Is her priority low too? So far her ariels seems to do well against other moves and i assume her ground moves have disjointed hitboxes. Also, it is smash, not street fighter, you are able to full jump away form anyone to regain space and et up (especially on all of the FD versions of stages).
 

TsuKiyoMe

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Hmm I guess that is true, But dont her ariels and range make up for that? Is her priority low too? So far her ariels seems to do well against other moves and i assume her ground moves have disjointed hitboxes. Also, it is smash, not street fighter, you are able to full jump away form anyone to regain space and et up (especially on all of the FD versions of stages).
That is one of my weaknesses as a player, constantly treating this game like a traditional fighter. I should try full jumping away from people more and re-establishing neutral with a Warp or Super Speed. That said, a Greninja still will just try to run me down on the escape.

It feels particularly futile. I'm simply not used to playing this style of game (I play Rushdown in most games). I think it'll come with time.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Because that just exists as another faucet to differentiate characters and give them unique strengths and weaknesses. For example, Palutena's sidestep has invisibility as well, but as a trade off, it's so long that it is easier to punish.
where is your proof that it's "so long it is easier to punish".

I haven't noticed this, so I question if it's true or not.
 

TsuKiyoMe

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While it wasn't me who made that claim, he might be right. When I was hanging out with Pierce7d the other day he was saying Palutena's Rolls and Spot dodges were slower/longer than normal rolls so he didn't consider them that great.

The man is much more knowledgeable than I am about Brawl so I just took his word for it. Granted...this is a new game.
 

KuroganeHammer

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There is literally NO way you can tell if one spotdodge is better than another until you either get hacking tools of have someone sit down for hours and hours testing it.

Neither of these things has occurred yet.
 

DiggersBoy

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Jab and Grab seems useless to me. I think it has to do with being unable to cancel Jab into Grab.

Any tips on making it go fast?
 

Daaku

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I was having trouble against a Pac-Man as Palutena recently in a For Glory match. His play style in general was to camp and force me to approach. He was walling me out with things like dropping hydrant whenever I was below him, chucking fruits at me whenever I was off the ledge, and charging fruits whenever I was at max or beyond autoreticle range on-stage.

What strategies are there against this kind of play style, given Omega/FD and default set for Palutena?

I know about shield dropping and using spaced aerials regarding approaching. For getting them to approach, most opponents'll hardly ever get by intimidated autoreticle since it's easy to dodge and they can punish either with a projectile or by rushing at Palutena. So if they've got a projectile that's usually not worth it to reflect (Robin's arcfire because of its angle or Pac-Man's fruits because of how they move), Palutena's kind of forced to approach. Are there other tools the goddess can use?
 
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Zediwonder

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Campy characters are always a pain, Reflect will always be the best option if you're far enough away. Short hopping over most projectiles works if they're camping the one spot and if you get close enough use her dash attack because it has absolute priority and will go through any projectile and hit your opponent.

Other than that there's not much to say outside a normal match up against a camping character. Use aerials safely because an approach from above is expected but not impossible and once you get close don't let them get far away again.
 

ChivalRuse

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I was having trouble against a Pac-Man as Palutena recently in a For Glory match. His play style in general was to camp and force me to approach. He was walling me out with things like dropping hydrant whenever I was below him, chucking fruits at me whenever I was off the ledge, and charging fruits whenever I was at max or beyond autoreticle range on-stage.

What strategies are there against this kind of play style, given Omega/FD and default set for Palutena?

I know about shield dropping and using spaced aerials regarding approaching. For getting them to approach, most opponents'll hardly ever get by intimidated autoreticle since it's easy to dodge and they can punish either with a projectile or by rushing at Palutena. So if they've got a projectile that's usually not worth it to reflect (Robin's arcfire because of its angle or Pac-Man's fruits because of how they move), Palutena's kind of forced to approach. Are there other tools the goddess can use?
To be honest, you simply have to not let him get away from you. Pac-man has no escape options besides roll since his dash is slower than yours. Approach him, corner him, and try to predict when he'll roll past you. Also, don't be afraid of him, since he has basically no KO moves. Key doesn't kill till at least 130. Side-b is easy to react to because you have to charge it to the max for it to actually enter the high knockback version. And all of his smash attacks are slow. None of his aerials will kill - nair and bair will but not until insane percents, 160 or higher.
 

CURRY

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Does Palutena's bair and dash attack have special properties, or do they just have insanely high priority?
I thought I trumped Ganon's up-B command grab with bair, but I wonder if it may have been in the last frames where he doesn't grab.
 
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Thinkaman

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Fair is basically safe, dash attack and bair win all trades, she has a potent grab game (with high reward), f-tilt beats spot-dodge.

Palutena has a lot of defensive tools too, but these traits are offensive.

Also Super Speed!
 

ddonaldo

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I dont think I agree, f air isn't super safe because it has pretty small range.
Her dash grab seems pretty slow.
Not gonna comment about her tilts.
fair is pretty safe if spaced well especially since it an autocancel, you shouldnt be dash grabbing because that is very unsafe and because her dash attack is so good, most opponents will prepare for it whenever they see you dash since it is easy to punish leading to some predictable behavior. Not even going to bother mentioning jabs
 

ChivalRuse

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I dont think I agree, f air isn't super safe because it has pretty small range.
Her dash grab seems pretty slow.
Not gonna comment about her tilts.
Fair is actually very safe. The range is liberal and the landing recovery time is almost nonexistent. Dash grab is incredibly fast (are you kidding me). Palutena has one of the fastest dashes in the game at full speed and her grab is not a tether or slow like Zelda's historically.

Pac man shouldn't be able to outcamp you o_0

We have a reflector and a projectile.

I'm so confused by this board.
Why do people act like Palutena should be used as an offensive and non campy character o_0.

@ Thinkaman Thinkaman pls halp
Our projectile is terrible. Don't expect to be able to camp an opponent with it, as dash to shield and dash out of shield will outright punish it. Reflector is great, sure, but you will be using it more as an approach tool than as a runaway tool. Palutena thrives from pressuring her opponent with grabs, spaced aerials, and the threat of dash attack. Running away reduces her effectiveness greatly.
 
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ChivalRuse

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Nothing wrong with that. To each his own. I just think aggression is good in the current meta, as it limits your opponent's ability to "set up" their neutral (e.g., pull bananas with Diddy, turnips with Peach, charge Thoron with Robin, fruit with Pac-Man, etc.). Some matchups give you more flexibility in your playstyle though, sure.
 
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Pentao

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Palutena's a favorite of mine, but I really struggle using her more effectively.

I feel like I'm going through a phase where I'm just playing a sort of auto-pilot Palutena. I've learned some stuff from watching videos and reading stuff, which is great, but I also haven't really edged out any real experience playing her yet. I find myself using her and just thinking "Oh, I remember reading her jab has tons of hit stun, if I land it, I can get a grab follow up or try for an f-smash!" But even though I think that, I don't think about how to land that jab, I just... randomly do it. I roll too much when trying to position for a jab, because I don't know how to move with Palutena otherwise to get a possible jab in.

Really, I'm just struggling with getting a feel for Palutena's spacing. I fall back on bad habits trying to implement things I learned. My grabs get telegraphed, and it feels like I'm going to dash attack, dash grab, or short hop nair as my only possible options until I fish for some reaction.

So, actual Palutena mains, how does one play the neutral better in Palutena? What options should I be considering instead of rolling to re-position myself to avoid attacks and get ready for a counter attack?
 

xnine

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So, actual Palutena mains, how does one play the neutral better in Palutena? What options should I be considering instead of rolling to re-position myself to avoid attacks and get ready for a counter attack?
Like ChivalRuse was saying, you should get into the habit of shield dashing. Palutena pulls up her shield pretty quickly, and it puts you into grab position more often than not. Also, as good as I believe Palutena's roll to be, I've learned from the boards that rolling is not often the best choice of movement. Restrain yourself, and dash and approach the enemy slowly and very deliberately.
 

Zediwonder

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Rolling isn't that bad, a lot of fanatics for the older games don't like it because it's become harder to punish with each installment. Just go play Melee, Brawl or even Project M and you can just feel how different it is. That being said you still shouldn't roll often, if it's a habit you have to break immediately you miss so many opportunities when you roll too often. Rolling can also still be punished, it's really easy to read when you use it often and I've got my fair share of free fsmashes because I was expecting an opponent to roll into my attack.
 

ChivalRuse

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Rolling is great for getting out of pressure. But you shouldn't use it in neutral as a movement option. The more that you use it, the sooner your opponent will figure out your patterns and start punishing.
 

Rango the Mercenary

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What if there are tournaments that allow Custom Palutena only? At least before they let everyone go custom, give Palutena access to her full moveset?
 

RedCap-BlueSpikes

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What if there are tournaments that allow Custom Palutena only? At least before they let everyone go custom, give Palutena access to her full moveset?
Don't really see that happening, to be honest. People have a very all-or-nothing mindset when it comes to custom moves. Which is understandable, it isn't fair to allow only a few characters to use their custom moves, but it kinda sucks for us Palutena players and the Mii Fighter mains.
 

soru

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Does anyone have a basic idea of what to do in the Yoshi matchup? I find it really difficult.
 

SneakyLink

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Reading this, I think an error exists with the following question:
Q: Are Palutena's specials unlocked from the beginning of the game?
Yes they are. However, you can still pick up duplicates of them.
Whenever I played and unlocked custom specials, I never got any for Palutena. Might have to do more research into this.
Also, I'm thinking of attempting to use her as a secondary. Any idea's on where to begin beyond here?
 

Tobi_Whatever

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If I do the lightweight dThrow > nAir > uAir combo, how do I avoid that my opponent pops out of the nAir in the wrong direction?
It feels like a guessing game.
 
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