PAL Sheik players, what are the spacies matchups like?

[SypherPhoenix]

How does the dthrow affect the matchup vs. Fox and Falco? Is it not used as much as it is in NTSC? Are you usually able to cover options with the dthrow? What does Sheik have trouble doing against Fox and Falco?

How would you rate this matchup in PAL? In NTSC, Fox is usually considered to have a slight advantage over Sheik, and Falco is usually considered to be either even or slight advantage.

 

[gm jack]

Even with falco, slight disadvantage to fox, so pretty much the same.

Dthrow still sets up for a tech chase. It is just harder to do consistently.

 

[Jolteon]

dthrow tech chase still covers a lot of options, usmash is still a viable ko move, uair combos into a lot, di+tech away out of dthrow is harder to punish though and uair kill set-ups are basically non-existent. however, fox loses a lot and falco loses the long lasting dair spike.

 

[gm jack]

I don't find DI+tech away that bad. I often find if you are only slightly late you can force a 50:50 on their part. If you think they will spot dodge or shine/jab (which beat grab), wait at ftilt range and either tilt or grab to punish. If you think they are going to shield or attack with anything but shine or jab, the grab tends to connect anyway.

Waiting just out of their range but in yours covers a load of options, and if you mix it up with a few grabs (often when you feel you have been quick enough to connect anyway), it punished people who try to spotdodge etc to take advantage of the extra ground you have to cover.

 

[Jolteon]

I don't think it's that bad either, but the fact remains that it is harder to cover lol

 

[gm jack]

True.

TL;DR the thread

Pretty much the same, just a bit harder to tech chase.

 

[pressokman]

if you can catch them with your u-air it will combo at mid/high percents. in ntsc it will combo at low/mid.

nobody will DI your d-throw in. best response imo is to dash forward asap and watch for the tech roll away and dash attack canceled grab. if they tech roll in then wave dash back turn around grab. or if the tech in place/miss a tech you can pretty much do whatever. depending on percents i usually grab/d-smash.

you can edgeguard fox a liiiiittle easier because of his shorter fire fox but it doesn't make much of a difference.

sheik still has generally the same strengths and weaknesses and it's not too much different after you get used to tech chasing differently.

 

[Pikaville]

I'm pretty sure it's easier to combo d throw>dash attack>ftilt in PAL.

Since the throw pushes them away slightly.

 

[Nihonjin]

In NTSC
Fox >>> Sheik
Falco > Sheik

In PAL
Fox > Sheik
Sheik > Falco

The matchups are almost played the same as in NTSC. Except that your downthrow is more difficult to follow up from in PAL. But because you don't die nearly as fast against Fox (and gimp him easier) and don't get combo'd nearly as bad against Falco, you have an easier time fighting them.

 

[darkatma]

I wanna live in the PAL world...

 

[Jolteon]

I wanna live in the PAL world...

But Peach.

 

[Nihonjin]

I wanna live in the PAL world...

Peach, Puff...no you don't..

 

[leffen]

"and don't get combo'd nearly as bad against Falco, you have an easier time fighting them. "

Bull. ****. The times where I used weak dair is used to combo where a strong one couldn't have sufficed I could count on my hands. However, Sheiks tech chase is much easier in NTSC (easier timing + you also cannot force a slipoff in NTSC) and her Uair is actually useful and not only used because you want to play flashy.

 

[Nihonjin]

"and don't get combo'd nearly as bad against Falco, you have an easier time fighting them. "

Bull. ****. The times where I used weak dair is used to combo where a strong one couldn't have sufficed I could count on my hands.

Find the post where I disagree with that..?

But the fact is, you can replace the weak dair in PAL with a nair or fair in NTSC and get roughly the same effects. While in PAL we have nothing to replace the weak dair tech chasing you can do in NTSC.

So no, it's not bull****, you get combo'd a lot worse in NTSC.

 

[Pikaville]

Amsah going in there!

Are Peach and Puff much different in PAL or are they the same?

 

[Teczer0]

I wanna live in the PAL world...

I ditto this man.

**** puff. We go low tiers on puff.

 

[Pikaville]

Playing Puff?

Use Zelda?

Profit?

 

[gm jack]

Sheik's Uair is still useful in PAL, allowing you to add an extra 12% or so before the fair at higher percents, allowing you to send them further out easier. It would have lost a lot of use due to the changed Dthrow anyway, so mourning it's loss as a kill move is not purely down to its reduced power.

The floaty match ups are similar in the way it is played, but the lack of a guaranteed kill/combo from a grab means sheik's punishes are a lot weaker, so making them harder to kill

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

The biggest issue against floaties in PAL is the fact that the Uair doesn't kill imo

 

[gm jack]

Wouldn't agree hugely. Uair isn't the easiest move to set up without the dthrow anyway (unless they DI a tilt really badly). The lack of grab -> kill in all its forms is the big hit.

That said, the only match up it really affects is Peach, as throwing grabs out at puff is just a bad idea anyway. Unless you count marth as floaty, but putting him off stage with a throw is still pretty good.

 

[stelzig]

^It helps alot against samus too... And all other floaties that are just even lower on the tier list of course.
I guess i'll have to agree that the dthrow is more important btw, but just the stronger Uair would help alot too.

 

[Jolteon]

ntsc uair is much better, even without dthrow -> uair :/

:king:

 

[bubbaking]

Well, uair>fair combos in PAL seem like they would do more work against Spacees (especially w/ Fox's weaker recovery), since you wouldn't really be killing them off the top anyway.

 

[Jolteon]

comboing off of the top with sheik is underrated and really good.

:king:

 

[bubbaking]

This is supporting PAL Sheik, right? Anyway, in all honesty, PAL smash is probably the (much) more balanced version.

 

[gm jack]

comboing off of the top with sheik is underrated and really good.

:king:

But you've sometimes gone for it because it looks cool and it not quite worked, when a fair would have got a definite kill. Depends on stage position.

 

[Jolteon]

It's the best option if they're at the right percent.

:king: