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PAL/ NTSC(V1.0/1.1/1.2) Disc Version Differences Archive

Mic_128

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Although many, many threads have been created (mainly asking about flame cancel) discussing disc versions, there has been no thread (and yes i searched) to list all of the known differences between 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, and PAL so i thought i'd make one.

I only know of the flame cancel differences so I need help. If you know of any glitches or bugs that were fixed in versions plz post what you know.

How to tell what version you have
Courtesy of http://ssbm.detstar.com.

If you have an Action Replay, Super Smash Bros. Melee already exists in your list of preset game codes... However, those SSBM codes will only work with SSBM version 1.0. So, how do you figure out what version you have, to decide which codes to use? Take your Melee disk, and turn it over to the shiny side (THE BACK). Hold it directly in the light, and search for tiny text on the dark ring. You'll have to experiment by holding your disk at different angles in the light, until the text is visible.



Eventually, you should be able to find text that says "DOL-GALE-0-xx".
The "xx" will actually be a number, which tells you which version you have. The version numbers are below:
00: Version 1.0
01: Version 1.1
02: Version 1.2

There is only one PAL version, which is region locked by territory. If you live in Europe or Australia, then you play the PAL version.

Pro Action Replay functionality
As far as Action Replay codes are concerned, each of the 4 versions is a different game. What that means is a code that works for one version will not work when trying to use it on another version! You must find the intended code for that version and enter it separately as a different game. Remember this when you're attempting to enter codes at a friend's, whenever you are using a different copy of the game, and ESPECIALLY when you are attempting a code that has not been hacked for all 4 versions of the game.

Version 1.0 NTSC

-Flame Cancel is possible
-you cannot DI/Smash DI hits that do less than 1% damage because they dont give hit lag


Version 1.1 NTSC

-Flame Cancel is possible
-you cannot DI/Smash DI hits that do less than 1% damage because they dont give hit lag
-specific differences between 1.0 and 1.1 have not been uncovered


Version 1.2 NTSC

-Flame Cancel is NOT possible
-you CAN DI/Smash DI hits that do less than 1% damage because they give hit lag
-Varios bugs removed (link superjump, ic freeze glitch, etc)


PAL (info from backroom thx to qwester)
www.haydenpratt.com/smashbros/palntscweight.xls[/URL]

The red data is the PAL version. Also the number near the characters represent screams. Mario 1 is when Mario will do his first scream (the 'oof!' sound) when being hit, Mario 2 is when he'll do his second scream (the 'whoa!' sound). Judging knockback using screams is completely viable as the results are also reflected when actually KOing your opponent. The reason why I didn't test this data by KOing someone on FD at a certain position is because it does not represent weight and power of attacks as well as screaming does. I'm sure everyone can understand the reasoning behind this.
Also all percentages are post-hit percents (you can minus the attack damage of the move to see what percent they were on before being hit)
Lastly, you can see through the data that the weight differences only really seems to start making a difference at higher percents.

Fox's upsmash also took part in that test but became invalid by a discovery I made shortly after testing it for the first time. Fox's up smash was DEFINITELY weakened in the PAL version, and the difference is surprising, after witnessing it, I pity you NTSC players for having to put up with it cos even us PAL users complain about its power.

I used Peach for this test for several reasons, 1. I'm biased and am interested in how Peach is effected in the versions, 2. Peach's weight has not changed, 3. Sheik is a nuisance to work with in training mode, Marth and Fox had weight changes (however slight they may be) so i used Peach.

In NTSC, Peach will die on FD if she is hit by Fox's up smash on 71%, add 18% to that, she will be flying in the background or hitting the screen on 89%. In PAL, Peach will only have to fear the upsmash when she reaches 83%, dying on 100%. Also indicating a 1% difference in damage between versions. (NTSC 18%, PAL 17%)
This indicates 12% gap from when Peach is succeptible to being killed by the attack. That's a lot more noteworthy than any of the weight changes IMO.

Scream data for Fox's upsmash on Peach:

NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 45% 53%
scream 2 - 106% 119%

Those numbers (and all listed for screams) are post-hit percentages.

I remember a few murmurs about Fox's up smash being changed but no one ever officially brought it up (at least not in the last topic). After discovering this I decided to show some data for the other 2 weakened smashes and found something interesting, Fox's forward smash is exactly the same in PAL and NTSC, so it is actually only the Up and Down smashes of Fox's that were weakened. Here is the data for Fox's down smash:

Scream data for Fox's downsmash on Peach:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 115% 130%
scream 2 - 237% 269%

The attack does 15% damage in NTSC and 13% in PAL.

Quite a difference but the attack isn't that strong anyway. See how the gap between the power of the attack grows with higher numbers, 15% difference in the first scream, and 32% in the second.


Anyway, to verify and add to Fox's changes. His Up B indeed got shortened, it is only very slight but this is how I tested it:
Fox on Dreamland 64, from left to right I firefoxed from one side to the other, in PAL, he lands very close to the edge, pretty much into the teetering off the edge animation. In NTSC he went off the edge everytime, but only just. The shortening isn't huge, but its there, and there's the proof.

In addition to the attack being shortened, It is also less damaging, from 14% in NTSC to 12% in PAL, and there has not been 1 instance where changing the damage did not change the knockback, so this move has most likely become weaker (2% difference usually ends up to be quite the difference) I didn't bother to test this for KO'ing potential right away because it isn't a common KO'ing move at all anyway...

Here are the results after testing Up B's KOing power
Fox's Up B on Peach, FD:

NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 77% 88%
scream 2 - 218% 250%
death - 179% 204%

25% difference in KOing, its not really that much of a big deal cos players probably won't be getting hit by the move often, but I suppose on smaller levels it might matter...

Moving along..
Someone mentioned along the line that Ganondorf's dair was reduced from 22% (NTSC) to 21% (PAL) and then it was just shrugged off after that as pretty much insignificant. But after doing tests with other moves, I came back and had to test this one after seeing how much 1% difference can make.
Here were the results:

Ganon's dair on Peach, FD:

NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 33% 40%
scream 2 - 89% 99%
death - 100% 110%

Note that in order to generate a scream, peach had to be airborne in case anyone wanted to reproduce this test. Basically the 1% difference in damage ended up being a 10% difference in power at a KO'ing percent. Hmm.. interesting.

That being said, Sheik's up aerial received a 2% difference.. and the results speak for themselves:

Sheik uair on Peach, FD:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 72% 93%
scream 2 - 153% 196%
death - 130% 167%

That is an enormous difference. a 43% difference in scream 2, and a 37% difference in getting KO'd at the lowest possible percent on FD.
The attack does 12% in NTSC and 10% in PAL.

The difference between PAL and NTSC Yoshi dair was unclear in the last list, but here is some definite data:
No screams were measured hear because you'll never be KO'ing with this move, it is strictly for combo and meteoring purposes which it does find regardless of percent (unless anyone thinks otherwise).

NTSC Yoshi dair - 14 hits, 51% damage
PAL Yoshi dair - 14 hits, 38% damage

Which means each hit of Yoshi's dair is doing 1% less damage on average in PAL

Also, Yoshi's up and forward smashes are more powerful in PAL (forward, NTSC 16%, PAL 17% up smash, NTSC 14%, PAL 15%)

Yoshi Forward Smash on Peach, FD:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 61% 55%
scream 2 - 143% 128%

Yoshi Up Smash on Peach, FD:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 63% 56%
scream 2 - 141% 130%
death - 121% 111%

Roughly a 10% difference in power for both attacks.

Kirby's dash attack was powered up from 8% NTSC to 9% PAL

After testing this however, I found out something very strange, the results speak for themselves:

Kirby dash attack on Peach, FD:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 89% 114%
scream 2 - 295% 361%
death - 241% 297%

While the attack does more damage in PAL, it is significantly weaker than in NTSC. It's the only example I've come across where this sort of opposite effect has occured.

Another insignificant difference I picked up on was that in training mode, when you press start and start again, the comp will taunt, this doesn't happen in PAL, and I'm glad they took it out, it is quite annoying.

-----------------

Here is the most up to date PAL differences list:

Weights
- Bowser, Yoshi and Kirby weigh more in PAL by 1, 3 and 4 points respectively
- Marth, Fox and Mario weigh less in PAL by 1, 2 and 2 points respectively

Strengthenings
- Yoshi's up and forward smashes are more powerful in PAL (forward, NTSC 16%, PAL 17% up smash, NTSC 14%, PAL 15%)
- Kirby's dash attack does more damage from 8% NTSC to 9% PAL, however has less knockback

Weakenings
- Sheik's Up aerial is weaker in PAL (NTSC 12%, PAL 10%)
- Sheik's Up smash tipper is weaker in PAL (NTSC 17%, PAL 16%)
- Fox's up and down smashes are weaker in PAL (upsmash - NTSC 18%, PAL 17%, down smash - NTSC 15%, PAL 13%)
- Fox's Up B is weaker in PAL (NTSC 14%, PAL 12%) and gets slightly less distance
- Ganondorf's dair is weaker in PAL (NTSC 22%, PAL 21%)
- Ganondorf's fair is weaker in PAL (same damage, but significantly weaker sending power)
- Yoshi's dair is weaker in PAL (NTSC 51%, PAL 38%)

Adjustments
- Falco's dair spikes will not spike near the end of the animation, instead generating a weak knockback that sends the opponent slightly upward and away (A vid on DC++ demonstrates this, search for 'PALfalcodair')
- Marth's dair is a meteor smash, not a spike in PAL (and hence can be recovered from)
- Sheik's down throw now allows the the opponent more horizontal DI and hence, can escape chain grabbing, tilts and aerials. The only thing that cannot, or is very hard to escape is a well timed dash attack on low percents. Other than that, Sheik cannot follow up with anything else directly from a down throw if the opponent DIs and techs/double jumps correctly.
- Fox can tech out of Falcos down throw in PAL.
- Bowser's down throw now hits Mr G&W.
- Link's spin attack (up b) doesn't semi spike in PAL.
- Captain Falcon's A A A combo will continue to attack after the 3rd A automatically in NTSC, but stops in PAL version.
- Samus cannot 'bomb out' of grapple beam, for example, if samus sets a bomb and grapple beams and the bomb hits her in ntsc, she will bounce out of the animation, this does not work in PAL.
- PAL (and NTSC version 1.1 and 1.2) has freeze framing*
- You cannot hit the sandbag once it hits the ground in HRC in PAL

Removed
- Samus's extended grapple beam was removed in PAL.
- The Special Video was removed in PAL

- PAL retains any changes made from the game after version 1.0, this includes the removal of:
- Flame canceling
- Link's super jump glitch
- The IC freeze glitch
- Freezing turnip glitch
- Other minor glitches...

Other Differences
- The Japanese language option was dropped in PAL in favor of Italian, French, Spanish and German.
- Names can now include upper and lower case letters.
- In the English language setting, distances are still measured in meters.
- Characters will not taunt when you press start and start again in Training mode in PAL.
- In Pokemon Stadium the scoreboard will say 'Leader' in PAL rather than 'Current Leader' in NTSC
- The stock icons are slightly smaller in PAL

-----------------

That is all, but I want to address some other 'differences' that weren't listed.

'- Fox's f-air has more range on it's hitbox in PAL.'
This information came from a few sources, particularly BTT players, but I don't exactly know how I should go about testing this to see if it is true. As you would be able to tell, it isn't the easiest move to test and it doesn't have any immediately obvious range advantages.

'- Flippers hit you harder in PAL'
I saw this one in DC++ at one stage. I tried it for myself and found the flippers to act roughly the same, if PAL flippers do indeed hit you further, its not by much.

'- Mario's Up B gets less distance'
I tested this and cannot see the difference at all, is this horizontal or vertical distance? Either way, it is very insignificant. I tested this by going to Onett and seeing how far back I had to stand before Mario's Up B would not reach the edge of the house on the left, using the flowers as markings.

'- Luigi's n-air is less powerful in PAL.'
This difference was in the last list... and it's completely false. It does the same damage and KO's at the same percentages.

'- Fox's forward smash is weakened'
Proven to be incorrect, in both versions, the attack does 15% and make Peach scream at the exact same percents.

'- Peach's down smash is weakened'
It's does the same damage, still does 5 hits and still has the same knockback.

Okay, so now we have some data to look at in terms of weight and the power change in certain attacks I'd like to bring back the discussion of what this means for the PAL players, as we are usually always discussing the game in terms of NTSC.
It's also a good time to bring this up again as the latest NTSC list has been established and it's something fresh we can use as some sort of basis to our discussion (even with these changes, the versions are still mostly the same).

Something I'd like to say to get the ball rolling is that the weight changes are almost negligible in battle, the only character I would consider benefiting from it much is Kirby and its only mostly 3% differences at higher percents.
Anyone who says Bowser is better in the PAL version because of a 1% difference in some of the most likely KO moves at high percents, should think again. Flame Canceling is infinitely more useful than this superfluous weight change. It is true that this glitch was taken out in later versions in the NTSC version, but most smash players will have the 1.0 version, and anyone who is serious about Bowser would be carrying a copy of the 1.0 around with them to tourneys (as well as Zelda players) and from what I'm aware of there has never been any banning of people using specific versions.

That being said, I put the asterisk next to freeze framing for a reason. NTSC players have the option to rid themselves of freeze framing by playing 1.0. Does this really matter? Well for some characters, yes it does, and the character that gets affected most severely with freeze framing is Zelda. All multi-hit attacks, ie, zelda's smashes, parasol, pika down smash, ylink up b grounded etc, are a lot better in NTSC as long as NTSC players choose the 1.0 version.

Also going back to the weight factor once again, in the previous difference list from a while ago, I mentioned character x having a better or worse crouch cancel/survivability/djc (for yoshi) than in NTSC. However looking at the data, one can see how little it would effect these factors anyway. I think when considering weight as a factor for PAL tiers or character matchup discussion, it should be the last thing on your list for a matchup plus or minus, thats if you even bother to include it. NEW: After doing some tests with Bringer, Yoshi's crouch cancel will break 1% later in PAL than NTSC, and the same with his DJC, seeing as Yoshi had one of the biggest changes in weight (3 points), the others that only changed by 2 or 1 points would either also have 1% change in CC or no change.
About Ganon's Fair:
I did a little research about the big guys fair because i found his fair not nearly as powerful in PAL as it is in NTSC.

In NTSC his fair rivals falcons knee but in PAL it doesn´t even come close to the knee´s power.

In Pal, it sends Falco at 100% before the hit about 1 1/2 final destination length and it sends a bit less than 2 final destinations in NTSC(no DI)

So here is how i measured its power:

Falco´s first scream from the fair starts at: NTSC 26% and PAL 43%
Falco´s second scream from the fair starts at: NTSC 111% and PAL 128%

Here is a little video i made to show it in action :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_ZSZNEt8io

Sooooooo if you have played NTSC ganon and try the PAL version, prepare to be disappointed. Trust me... it really sucks compared to the NTSC
Ryoko says: Another significant difference between NTSC and PAL are the available display modes. All NTSC versions support 60hz only, and can use progressive scan output (480p) when component cables are connected to a 480p compatible television for improved video quality. Progressive scan output is accessible by holding the B button during start up. Component cables MUST be connected to the console for this option to appear.

PAL, however, dually supports 50hz and 60hz (NTSC) modes. It does NOT support progressive scan output, unfortunately. The method of activating 60hz mode is also by holding the B button during start up. The increased (aka intended) frame rate is a major boon for playing the game, and is always recommended over playing in 50hz if it can be helped.
 

5150

Banned via Administration
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Messages
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Although many, many threads have been created (mainly asking about flame cancel) discussing disc versions, there has been no thread (and yes i searched) to list all of the known differences between 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, and PAL so i thought i'd make one.

I only know of the flame cancel differences so I need help. If you know of any glitches or bugs that were fixed in versions plz post what you know.

How to tell what version you have
Courtesy of http://ssbm.detstar.com.

If you have an Action Replay, Super Smash Bros. Melee already exists in your list of preset game codes... However, those SSBM codes will only work with SSBM version 1.0. So, how do you figure out what version you have, to decide which codes to use? Take your Melee disk, and turn it over to the shiny side (THE BACK). Hold it directly in the light, and search for tiny text on the dark ring. You'll have to experiment by holding your disk at different angles in the light, until the text is visible.



Eventually, you should be able to find text that says "DOL-GALE-0-xx".
The "xx" will actually be a number, which tells you which version you have. The version numbers are below:
00: Version 1.0
01: Version 1.1
02: Version 1.2

There is only one PAL version, which is region locked by territory. If you live in Europe or Australia, then you play the PAL version.

Pro Action Replay functionality
As far as Action Replay codes are concerned, each of the 4 versions is a different game. What that means is a code that works for one version will not work when trying to use it on another version! You must find the intended code for that version and enter it separately as a different game. Remember this when you're attempting to enter codes at a friend's, whenever you are using a different copy of the game, and ESPECIALLY when you are attempting a code that has not been hacked for all 4 versions of the game.

Version 1.0 NTSC

-Flame Cancel is possible
-you cannot DI/Smash DI hits that do less than 1% damage because they dont give hit lag


Version 1.1 NTSC

-Flame Cancel is possible
-you cannot DI/Smash DI hits that do less than 1% damage because they dont give hit lag
-specific differences between 1.0 and 1.1 have not been uncovered


Version 1.2 NTSC

-Flame Cancel is NOT possible
-you CAN DI/Smash DI hits that do less than 1% damage because they give hit lag
-Varios bugs removed (link superjump, ic freeze glitch, etc)


PAL (info from backroom thx to qwester)
I did a little research about the big guys fair because i found his fair not nearly as powerful in PAL as it is in NTSC.

In NTSC his fair rivals falcons knee but in PAL it doesn´t even come close to the knee´s power.

In Pal, it sends Falco at 100% before the hit about 1 1/2 final destination length and it sends a bit less than 2 final destinations in NTSC(no DI)

So here is how i measured its power:

Falco´s first scream from the fair starts at: NTSC 26% and PAL 43%
Falco´s second scream from the fair starts at: NTSC 111% and PAL 128%

Here is a little video i made to show it in action :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_ZSZNEt8io

Sooooooo if you have played NTSC ganon and try the PAL version, prepare to be disappointed. Trust me... it really sucks compared to the NTSC
Ryoko says: Another significant difference between NTSC and PAL are the available display modes. All NTSC versions support 60hz only, and can use progressive scan output (480p) when component cables are connected to a 480p compatible television for improved video quality. Progressive scan output is accessible by holding the B button during start up. Component cables MUST be connected to the console for this option to appear.

PAL, however, dually supports 50hz and 60hz (NTSC) modes. It does NOT support progressive scan output, unfortunately. The method of activating 60hz mode is also by holding the B button during start up. The increased (aka intended) frame rate is a major boon for playing the game, and is always recommended over playing in 50hz if it can be helped.
 

Jeffz0r

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
2,702
Location
the Netherlands
I don't know about those differences, but I do know about PAL differences though:

- Bowser Kirby and Yoshi are heavier in PAL.
- Marth, Fox and Mario are lighter in PAL.
- Falco's dair now anly spikes for the first half of the animation. The rest sends them slightly up.
- Sheik's uair is much less powerful in PAL.
- Marth's dair is Meteor smash, not spike in PAL.
- Fox's down and forward smash are less powerful in PAL.
- Luigi's nair is less powerful in PAL.
- Ganon's dair was weakened in PAL.
- Yoshi's dair was weakened in PAL.
- Fox's fair has more range in PAL.
- DI on Sheik's downthrow has been changed so that it can no longer chain in PAL.
- Fox can tech out of Falco's d-throw in PAL.
- Bowser's downthrow now hits Mr. G&W.
- Link's spin attack (up B) doesn't semi-spike in PAL.
- Samus's extended grapple beam was removed in PAL.
- The IC freeze glitch was removed in PAL.
- Samus cannot bomb herself while grappling in PAL.
- Falcon's AAA combo won't automatically go to the rapid his in PAL.
- Mario's up B gets less distance.
- The Japanese language option was dropped in PAL, in favor of Italian, French, Spanish and German.
- Names can now include upper and lower case letters.
- In the English language setting, distances are measured in meters.
- Lag and loading times have been reduced in PAL.
- Flippers hit you harder in PAL.
 

5150

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Messages
2,386
Location
Madison, WI
Jeffz0r said:
I don't know about those differences, but I do know about PAL differences though:

- Bowser Kirby and Yoshi are heavier in PAL.
- Marth, Fox and Mario are lighter in PAL.
- Falco's dair now anly spikes for the first half of the animation. The rest sends them slightly up.
- Sheik's uair is much less powerful in PAL.
- Marth's dair is Meteor smash, not spike in PAL.
- Fox's down and forward smash are less powerful in PAL.
- Luigi's nair is less powerful in PAL.
- Ganon's dair was weakened in PAL.
- Yoshi's dair was weakened in PAL.
- Fox's fair has more range in PAL.
- DI on Sheik's downthrow has been changed so that it can no longer chain in PAL.
- Fox can tech out of Falco's d-throw in PAL.
- Bowser's downthrow now hits Mr. G&W.
- Link's spin attack (up B) doesn't semi-spike in PAL.
- Samus's extended grapple beam was removed in PAL.
- The IC freeze glitch was removed in PAL.
- Samus cannot bomb herself while grappling in PAL.
- Falcon's AAA combo won't automatically go to the rapid his in PAL.
- Mario's up B gets less distance.
- The Japanese language option was dropped in PAL, in favor of Italian, French, Spanish and German.
- Names can now include upper and lower case letters.
- In the English language setting, distances are measured in meters.
- Lag and loading times have been reduced in PAL.
- Flippers hit you harder in PAL.
ill add this to the list. thank you.






as for the poster above me use search button
 

Qwester

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Messages
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Location
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Yes, it does. There's actually a thread showing PAL differences floating around here somewhere. I recognise the list Jeffz0r's posted as the one I compiled and formatted on RiTT.

Meh, can't find the Melee Discussion version, I'll just quote the Back room one.

Quetzalcoatl said:
NTSC version - You are playing this version if you are in North America, South America or Japan.

PAL version - You are playing this version if you are in Europe or Australia

The PAL difference list revised..

The weight changes.
We initially developed that these were the following changes in weight:
Kirby + 4
Yoshi + 3
Bowser + 1
Marth - 1
Fox - 2
Mario - 2

But what exactly did that mean? How much was +4 weight for Kirby in the game?
The degree of the weight changes in PAL have been exaggerated by the community. After some testing, here are the results, how to interpret the data is mentioned below the URL:

www.haydenpratt.com/smashbros/palntscweight.xls

The red data is the PAL version. Also the number near the characters represent screams. Mario 1 is when Mario will do his first scream (the 'oof!' sound) when being hit, Mario 2 is when he'll do his second scream (the 'whoa!' sound). Judging knockback using screams is completely viable as the results are also reflected when actually KOing your opponent. The reason why I didn't test this data by KOing someone on FD at a certain position is because it does not represent weight and power of attacks as well as screaming does. I'm sure everyone can understand the reasoning behind this.
Also all percentages are post-hit percents (you can minus the attack damage of the move to see what percent they were on before being hit)
Lastly, you can see through the data that the weight differences only really seems to start making a difference at higher percents.

Fox's upsmash also took part in that test but became invalid by a discovery I made shortly after testing it for the first time. Fox's up smash was DEFINITELY weakened in the PAL version, and the difference is surprising, after witnessing it, I pity you NTSC players for having to put up with it cos even us PAL users complain about its power.

I used Peach for this test for several reasons, 1. I'm biased and am interested in how Peach is effected in the versions, 2. Peach's weight has not changed, 3. Sheik is a nuisance to work with in training mode, Marth and Fox had weight changes (however slight they may be) so i used Peach.

In NTSC, Peach will die on FD if she is hit by Fox's up smash on 71%, add 18% to that, she will be flying in the background or hitting the screen on 89%. In PAL, Peach will only have to fear the upsmash when she reaches 83%, dying on 100%. Also indicating a 1% difference in damage between versions. (NTSC 18%, PAL 17%)
This indicates 12% gap from when Peach is succeptible to being killed by the attack. That's a lot more noteworthy than any of the weight changes IMO.

Scream data for Fox's upsmash on Peach:

NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 45% 53%
scream 2 - 106% 119%

Those numbers (and all listed for screams) are post-hit percentages.

I remember a few murmurs about Fox's up smash being changed but no one ever officially brought it up (at least not in the last topic). After discovering this I decided to show some data for the other 2 weakened smashes and found something interesting, Fox's forward smash is exactly the same in PAL and NTSC, so it is actually only the Up and Down smashes of Fox's that were weakened. Here is the data for Fox's down smash:

Scream data for Fox's downsmash on Peach:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 115% 130%
scream 2 - 237% 269%

The attack does 15% damage in NTSC and 13% in PAL.

Quite a difference but the attack isn't that strong anyway. See how the gap between the power of the attack grows with higher numbers, 15% difference in the first scream, and 32% in the second.


Anyway, to verify and add to Fox's changes. His Up B indeed got shortened, it is only very slight but this is how I tested it:
Fox on Dreamland 64, from left to right I firefoxed from one side to the other, in PAL, he lands very close to the edge, pretty much into the teetering off the edge animation. In NTSC he went off the edge everytime, but only just. The shortening isn't huge, but its there, and there's the proof.

In addition to the attack being shortened, It is also less damaging, from 14% in NTSC to 12% in PAL, and there has not been 1 instance where changing the damage did not change the knockback, so this move has most likely become weaker (2% difference usually ends up to be quite the difference) I didn't bother to test this for KO'ing potential right away because it isn't a common KO'ing move at all anyway...

Here are the results after testing Up B's KOing power
Fox's Up B on Peach, FD:

NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 77% 88%
scream 2 - 218% 250%
death - 179% 204%

25% difference in KOing, its not really that much of a big deal cos players probably won't be getting hit by the move often, but I suppose on smaller levels it might matter...

Moving along..
Someone mentioned along the line that Ganondorf's dair was reduced from 22% (NTSC) to 21% (PAL) and then it was just shrugged off after that as pretty much insignificant. But after doing tests with other moves, I came back and had to test this one after seeing how much 1% difference can make.
Here were the results:

Ganon's dair on Peach, FD:

NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 33% 40%
scream 2 - 89% 99%
death - 100% 110%

Note that in order to generate a scream, peach had to be airborne in case anyone wanted to reproduce this test. Basically the 1% difference in damage ended up being a 10% difference in power at a KO'ing percent. Hmm.. interesting.

That being said, Sheik's up aerial received a 2% difference.. and the results speak for themselves:

Sheik uair on Peach, FD:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 72% 93%
scream 2 - 153% 196%
death - 130% 167%

That is an enormous difference. a 43% difference in scream 2, and a 37% difference in getting KO'd at the lowest possible percent on FD.
The attack does 12% in NTSC and 10% in PAL.

The difference between PAL and NTSC Yoshi dair was unclear in the last list, but here is some definite data:
No screams were measured hear because you'll never be KO'ing with this move, it is strictly for combo and meteoring purposes which it does find regardless of percent (unless anyone thinks otherwise).

NTSC Yoshi dair - 14 hits, 51% damage
PAL Yoshi dair - 14 hits, 38% damage

Which means each hit of Yoshi's dair is doing 1% less damage on average in PAL

Also, Yoshi's up and forward smashes are more powerful in PAL (forward, NTSC 16%, PAL 17% up smash, NTSC 14%, PAL 15%)

Yoshi Forward Smash on Peach, FD:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 61% 55%
scream 2 - 143% 128%

Yoshi Up Smash on Peach, FD:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 63% 56%
scream 2 - 141% 130%
death - 121% 111%

Roughly a 10% difference in power for both attacks.

Kirby's dash attack was powered up from 8% NTSC to 9% PAL

After testing this however, I found out something very strange, the results speak for themselves:

Kirby dash attack on Peach, FD:
NTSC - PAL
scream 1 - 89% 114%
scream 2 - 295% 361%
death - 241% 297%

While the attack does more damage in PAL, it is significantly weaker than in NTSC. It's the only example I've come across where this sort of opposite effect has occured.

Another insignificant difference I picked up on was that in training mode, when you press start and start again, the comp will taunt, this doesn't happen in PAL, and I'm glad they took it out, it is quite annoying.

-----------------

Here is the most up to date PAL differences list:

Weights
- Bowser, Yoshi and Kirby weigh more in PAL by 1, 3 and 4 points respectively
- Marth, Fox and Mario weigh less in PAL by 1, 2 and 2 points respectively

Strengthenings
- Yoshi's up and forward smashes are more powerful in PAL (forward, NTSC 16%, PAL 17% up smash, NTSC 14%, PAL 15%)
- Kirby's dash attack does more damage from 8% NTSC to 9% PAL, however has less knockback

Weakenings
- Sheik's Up aerial is weaker in PAL (NTSC 12%, PAL 10%)
- Fox's up and down smashes are weaker in PAL (upsmash - NTSC 18%, PAL 17%, down smash - NTSC 15%, PAL 13%)
- Fox's Up B is weaker in PAL (NTSC 14%, PAL 12%) and gets slightly less distance
- Ganon's dair is weaker in PAL (NTSC 22%, PAL 21%)
- Yoshi's dair is weaker in PAL (NTSC 51%, PAL 38%)

Adjustments
- Falco's dair spikes will not spike near the end of the animation, instead generating a weak knockback that sends the opponent slightly upward and away (A vid on DC++ demonstrates this, search for 'PALfalcodair')
- Marth's dair is a meteor smash, not a spike in PAL (and hence can be recovered from)
- Sheik's down throw now allows the the opponent more horizontal DI and hence, can escape chain grabbing, tilts and aerials. The only thing that cannot, or is very hard to escape is a well timed dash attack on low percents. Other than that, Sheik cannot follow up with anything else directly from a down throw if the opponent DIs and techs/double jumps correctly.
- Fox can tech out of Falcos down throw in PAL.
- Bowser's down throw now hits Mr G&W.
- Link's spin attack (up b) doesn't semi spike in PAL.
- Captain Falcon's A A A combo will continue to attack after the 3rd A automatically in NTSC, but stops in PAL version.
- Samus cannot 'bomb out' of grapple beam, for example, if samus sets a bomb and grapple beams and the bomb hits her in ntsc, she will bounce out of the animation, this does not work in PAL.
- PAL (and NTSC version 1.1 and 1.2) has freeze framing*
- You cannot hit the sandbag once it hits the ground in HRC in PAL

Removed
- Samus's extended grapple beam was removed in PAL.
- The Special Video was removed in PAL

- PAL retains any changes made from the game after version 1.0, this includes the removal of:
- Flame canceling
- Link's super jump glitch
- The IC freeze glitch
- Freezing turnip glitch
- Other minor glitches...

Other Differences
- The Japanese language option was dropped in PAL in favor of Italian, French, Spanish and German.
- Names can now include upper and lower case letters.
- In the English language setting, distances are measured in meters.
- Characters will not taunt when you press start and start again in Training mode in PAL.
- In Pokemon Stadium the scoreboard will say 'Leader' in PAL rather than 'Current Leader' in NTSC

-----------------

That is all, but I want to address some other 'differences' that weren't listed.

'- Fox's f-air has more range on it's hitbox in PAL.'
This information came from a few sources, particularly BTT players, but I don't exactly know how I should go about testing this to see if it is true. As you would be able to tell, it isn't the easiest move to test and it doesn't have any immediately obvious range advantages.

'- Flippers hit you harder in PAL'
I saw this one in DC++ at one stage. I tried it for myself and found the flippers to act roughly the same, if PAL flippers do indeed hit you further, its not by much.

'- Mario's Up B gets less distance'
I tested this and cannot see the difference at all, is this horizontal or vertical distance? Either way, it is very insignificant. I tested this by going to Onett and seeing how far back I had to stand before Mario's Up B would not reach the edge of the house on the left, using the flowers as markings.

'- Luigi's n-air is less powerful in PAL.'
This difference was in the last list... and it's completely false. It does the same damage and KO's at the same percentages.

'- Fox's forward smash is weakened'
Proven to be incorrect, in both versions, the attack does 15% and make Peach scream at the exact same percents.

'- Peach's down smash is weakened'
It's does the same damage, still does 5 hits and still has the same knockback.

Okay, so now we have some data to look at in terms of weight and the power change in certain attacks I'd like to bring back the discussion of what this means for the PAL players, as we are usually always discussing the game in terms of NTSC.
It's also a good time to bring this up again as the latest NTSC list has been established and it's something fresh we can use as some sort of basis to our discussion (even with these changes, the versions are still mostly the same).

Something I'd like to say to get the ball rolling is that the weight changes are almost negligible in battle, the only character I would consider benefiting from it much is Kirby and its only mostly 3% differences at higher percents.
Anyone who says Bowser is better in the PAL version because of a 1% difference in some of the most likely KO moves at high percents, should think again. Flame Canceling is infinitely more useful than this superfluous weight change. It is true that this glitch was taken out in later versions in the NTSC version, but most smash players will have the 1.0 version, and anyone who is serious about Bowser would be carrying a copy of the 1.0 around with them to tourneys (as well as Zelda players) and from what I'm aware of there has never been any banning of people using specific versions.

That being said, I put the asterisk next to freeze framing for a reason. NTSC players have the option to rid themselves of freeze framing by playing 1.0. Does this really matter? Well for some characters, yes it does, and the character that gets affected most severely with freeze framing is Zelda. All multi-hit attacks, ie, zelda's smashes, parasol, pika down smash, ylink up b grounded etc, are a lot better in NTSC as long as NTSC players choose the 1.0 version.

Also going back to the weight factor once again, in the previous difference list from a while ago, I mentioned character x having a better or worse crouch cancel/survivability/djc (for yoshi) than in NTSC. However looking at the data, one can see how little it would effect these factors anyway. I think when considering weight as a factor for PAL tiers or character matchup discussion, it should be the last thing on your list for a matchup plus or minus, thats if you even bother to include it. NEW: After doing some tests with Bringer, Yoshi's crouch cancel will break 1% later in PAL than NTSC, and the same with his DJC, seeing as Yoshi had one of the biggest changes in weight (3 points), the others that only changed by 2 or 1 points would either also have 1% change in CC or no change.

Any possible differences you may think exist, either post them here or PM me and I'll test it out. Also anyone else out there that has the NTSC version and PAL version who wants to help, please do.
I don't want to put this in the melee discussion room just yet, as this list is incomplete in terms of back-up data and the amount of false accusations about differences could get even more out of control than it already is.

Please note that there is a pretty good chance that through all the processes involved I may have incorrectly typed a number. But i've already ironed out most stuff so it should be ok.
 

Qwester

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As I said, there's actually the same topic in the MD somewhere, it may not have been keep as up to date, but the same general content is there. There's just far too much rubbish here for things like that to stay on the first few pages. The SBR doesnt keep things hidden from the rest of the community.
 

Mud Buddha

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That explains a ****ing lot. I was wondering quite why people in the home run contest were getting 2000 METRES WITH EASE. Can you imagine how confused I was?

Crikey, PAL had a major tone down compared to NTSC.
 

RyokoYaksa

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You forgot something pretty important.

In NTSC 1.1 and later, attacks that cause 1% or less damage incur hit lag on contact. This means such attacks be DI'd and CC'd when they could NOT have been before. And you play anything like me, the change is god-awful and was poorly implemented. I'm sticking with my 1.0 disc.
 

Fox4695

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Wow, this makes me happy i have version 1.1 because I play Fox and I love to use Fsmash and Dsmash and the fact that PAL weakens them makes me hope I never play that version. Also just like Mud Buddha said it explains how people get those high home runs with ease and get them so far when i copy the same thing they show in the videos and cant get nearly as far.
 

Best101

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Do the different versions of smash have differnt voice overs for the crowd and the narration? I was watching a video of Falco vs. Fox (Falco won!) and when they started cheering it sounded different from my game. Correct me if i'm wrong but this was probably because it was in the Japanese mode.
 

Qwester

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Versions themselves don't change the voices in the game, all english language modes use the same sounds. Japanese/German/French etc all have some changes.
 

Peaches

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Zelda's multi hitting smashes changed so that you can't DI out as easily. . . I think.
 

RyokoYaksa

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The reverse meaning of your post is true.

In 1.0, you can't DI Zelda's smashes at all, except for the final hit that actually contains the knockback. In any version after that, the "prehits" can be DI'd so you can escape the final hit.
 

Nucks

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Wow, I did NOT know all these things changed.
How do you check which version the smash is?
And what's "PAL"?
 

Peaches

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As far as I know most don't use 1.0, but as far as I know you can bring 1.0 and ask to use it with no problem.
 

Keatsta

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things i'm sure of:
1.0's HRC limit was 45xx.x (i'll check in a sec, i hit the OV limit with ganon)
1.1+'s HRC limit was 11xxx.x (again, i'll check in a sec)
1.2 doesn't have IC Freeze Glitch

things i think changed
1.1+ doesn't have black hole glitch
1.1+ doesn't have sheild stupidity trick
 

5150

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qwester, are there any other mega threads like the PAL one dedicated to different NTSC versions? if not then you probably know more than anyone else here so please tell us all you know...
 

ycz12

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Link's Super Jump and all subsequent glitches were removed in 1.1+
When you reset (L+A+R+Start) the game in 1.0, stock, the results screen has 0:00 for the time survived for the players that did not die, -:-- for the person that reset, and X:XX for the people who died. In 1.1+ it displays just -:-- for thoses still alive and X:XX for those not.
Link/Y. Link sliding bomb glitches were removed in 1.1+, I believe.
There's probably others.
 

Ragnarok91

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Mud Buddha said:
That explains a ****ing lot. I was wondering quite why people in the home run contest were getting 2000 METRES WITH EASE. Can you imagine how confused I was?

Crikey, PAL had a major tone down compared to NTSC.
Fox4695 said:
Wow, this makes me happy i have version 1.1 because I play Fox and I love to use Fsmash and Dsmash and the fact that PAL weakens them makes me hope I never play that version. Also just like Mud Buddha said it explains how people get those high home runs with ease and get them so far when i copy the same thing they show in the videos and cant get nearly as far.
Maybe my brain's just frozen, but this doesn't make sense.

They weakened attacks (so not as much damage from bat dropping I guess), and 2000 metres = 6500 feet or so. I'll assume that Mud Buddha has PAL, but if he doesn't he's not making any sense. Fox4695 isn't making sense at all because he has NTSC 1.1, so he has stronger attacks and it's measured in feet so it seems larger than by metres.
 

Vyse

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I have PAL,

**** it sucks, especially the modifications to Falco.

But at least I've never actually played the NTSC versions, so it doesn't suck that much because I don't know the differences first hand.
 

Doraki

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'- Fox's f-air has more range on it's hitbox in PAL.'
This information came from a few sources, particularly BTT players, but I don't exactly know how I should go about testing this to see if it is true. As you would be able to tell, it isn't the easiest move to test and it doesn't have any immediately obvious range advantages.

'- Flippers hit you harder in PAL'
I saw this one in DC++ at one stage. I tried it for myself and found the flippers to act roughly the same, if PAL flippers do indeed hit you further, its not by much.
Fox's f-air has the same range in all the versions (lame excuse for ntsc btt players not getting sub 7.28 fox with old strat).
Now we know that the 2nd kick has more range than the 1st.

I don't think the flippers hit you harder, this came from Marth's btt stage, where Marth can tech a flipper hit in Pal because he's lighter.
 

Crashmania

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also don't some people have different btt stages in pal?
and yeah DIing hits that are less than 1% sucks butt. i was using bowser in version 1.1 and some dude DI'd out of my dsmash 3 times in a row.
 

Quaz

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Keatsta said:
things i'm sure of:
1.0's HRC limit was 45xx.x (i'll check in a sec, i hit the OV limit with ganon)
1.1+'s HRC limit was 11xxx.x (again, i'll check in a sec)
1.2 doesn't have IC Freeze Glitch

things i think changed
1.1+ doesn't have black hole glitch
1.1+ doesn't have sheild stupidity trick
4556.9 for v1.0 and 11347.2 in v1.1+... and PAL is 11345.2 (3457.9 M) since its the meters track... you can only get 11347.2 in feet mode for NTSC 1.1+

the freeze glitch IS in 1.2... I have 1.2 and I have used it.

another thing... I dunno if this was listed or not, but since PAL doesnt have feet mode, the HRC stage isnt a little smaller like in NTSC... although 1.1+ can have the stage as big as PAL in meters mode (in 1.0 the meters mode stage is the same size as the feet mode stage)
 

Lorepath

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Any info on if there's a speed differance? I've always had a perceived sense of speed differance when I play in american tornements; I seem to have more time to do moves.

Both myself and my team mate noticed this the two years we played in an american tornement. We put it down to the game being slower in america. Reactions seemed quicker, and we were playing better than we did at home on the PAL version.

Is there any speed differance or was this likely a case of adrenaline, or possibly the NTSC version being faster thus forcing a faster paced play?


There ever a reason on the changes in weight/damage?
 

RyokoYaksa

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If you were playing in 50hz mode, then the game plays a bit slower than intended. If I remember anything from my Mario Kart days it's something like 50hz running the game 1.2024x slower than 60hz. If you have a TV compatible of 60hz signals, hold B while booting up SSBM.
 

Yuna

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PAL 50hz is slower. If your NTSC copy was running slow, you were probably playing a 50hz TV <_>'. How you could go to NTSC tourneys and experienced a slowed down game is beyond me.
 

Doraki

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Yuna said:
PAL 50hz is slower. If your NTSC copy was running slow, you were probably playing a 50hz TV <_>'. How you could go to NTSC tourneys and experienced a slowed down game is beyond me.
No, unlike Mario Kart, SSBM isn't slower in 50hz than in 60hz.
When you play in 50hz, the game still runs in 60 frames / second, the only thing is that you don't see all the frames.
Or else every Pal player would play stadium in 50hz.
 

Mic_128

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Bowser, in the air, press B to start the animation for the fire breath, land, animation is automatically canceled and fire gets breathed. In PAL you can't do it with Bowser, but you can do it with Kirby with Bowser's power.
 

OnYourMark

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Do you know that the excel document link doesn't work... kind of.
The link in the Quetzalcoatl quote...
I know that it used to work quite a while ago, but now it doesn't :(
Does anyone else have the file?...

I downloaded it a while back, but deleted it (WHILE THE LINK WAS STILL WORKING).
 

Yuna

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Doraki said:
No, unlike Mario Kart, SSBM isn't slower in 50hz than in 60hz.
When you play in 50hz, the game still runs in 60 frames / second, the only thing is that you don't see all the frames.
Or else every Pal player would play stadium in 50hz.
I know that. I just didn't feel like explaining it to a bunch of obvious n00bs again.
 
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